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Everything posted by Sthira

  1. Wow, I’m surprised at such breezy dismissals of an actual anti-aging study in real, live and healthy human beings. Isn’t this what we want? To slow, stop, reverse human aging? Shouldn’t any paper that states “....we conducted what may be the first human clinical trial designed to reverse aspects of human aging...” capture your attention and admiration? Your imagination should be stimulated for what good things may be ahead in this young field (that’s obviously so egregiously underfunded and under supported). The recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH) Fahy used in this work was targeted “to prevent or reverse signs of immunosenescence in a population of 51‐ to 65‐year‐old healthy men.” From the paper: “Because GH‐induced hyperinsulinemia (Marcus et al., 1990) is undesirable and might affect thymic regeneration and immunological reconstitution, we combined rhGH with both dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and metformin in an attempt to limit the “diabetogenic” effect of GH (Fahy, 2003, 2010; Weiss, Villareal, Fontana, Han, & Holloszy, 2011). DHEA has many effects, in both men and women, that oppose deleterious effects of normal aging (Cappola et al., 2009; Forti et al., 2012; Shufelt et al., 2010; Weiss et al., 2011). Metformin is a powerful calorie restriction mimetic in aging mice (Dhahbi, Mote, Fahy, & Spindler, 2005) and has been proposed as a candidate for slowing aging in humans (Barzilai, Crandall, Kritchevsky, & Espeland, 2016). Neither DHEA (Riley, Fitzmaurice, & Regelson, 1990) nor metformin are known to have any thymotrophic effects of their own.” This is a wonderful study — albeit humble and hard-fought due to funding limitations — and of course it needs replication. But like WTF.... But why aren’t you excited?! This is an effort — a decade or so in the making — in which Fahy et al “...observed protective immunological changes, improved risk indices for many age‐related diseases, and a mean epigenetic age approximately 1.5 years less than baseline after 1 year of treatment (−2.5‐year change compared to no treatment at the end of the study)...” I feel like this is a moment you should be supportive of these baby steps, not dismissive. This very protocol may lead to actual effective human interventions that someday gonna save yo’ hide! And. It’s. Not. In. Genetically Altered Rodents! Hey there, happy: get happier.
  2. Sthira

    Eat more jellyfish poop

    About 1:15 minutes into this slightly goofy interview, ( https://youtu.be/GL6dasaA9e0) Dr. Steven Gundry (The Plant Paradox) says: “We can actually extend our lifespan to things that people can’t even imagine. And it actually has to do not with you and me and what we conceive of as our bodies, but it turns out that 90% of all the cells that make you and me, me, are actually non-human cells. They’re bacteria, viruses, funguses, worms that live in us and on us. “And the shocking thing is that 99% of all the genes that make up you and me are non-human genes. They’re bacterial and viral genes. And what we’ve completely missed from the human genome project is that we have actually very few genes. And our genes are about 99% the same as a chimp or a gorilla. And we’re very different from chimps or gorillas. Yet we have virtually the same genes. What makes us different is actually the bacteria and viruses that live inside us. You can actually show when humans evolved from the other great apes, that our bacteria actually changed. We can actually identify that point in time, that the bacteria made us rather than our genes made us.” A moment later he says: “As shocking as it may seem most of what happens to us is determined by the state and the variation of the bacteria primarily in our gut. I’ll give you an example. You can take a bowel movement from an obese individual and feed it to a skinny rat. Skinny rats love to eat poo. Those skinny rats will become fat. Because the bacteria have actually manipulated their feeding habits. They actually send text messages to the brain to go look for foods that they would not otherwise consume that those bacteria want. We can actually, there was a cool study in ... a woman marathon runner in England a couple of years ago who developed very severe infection in her colon called c. Difficile... And the modern treatment for this is a fecal transplant, taking poop from somebody else and shoving it up your ass. And you try to get a fecal transplant from a family member because believe it or not family members tend to share their bacteria. I share a lot of bacteria with my dogs and they share with me. So they found a cousin for her and she got the fecal transplant, and everything went well, her c. Difficile went away, we go into why that happened. In the next year, this marathon runner gained 32 pounds without changing anything. And it turns out her niece, cousin, was actually about 32 pounds overweight. And so she was inoculated with obesogenic bacteria. And her bacteria, these little one celled organisms, controlled her behavior...” So why not drink pond koi poop? Or eat Geoducks? Geoducks live 160 years. We should shove their poop up our bums and obtain their longevity bacteria. If I surround myself with hundreds of pet Tuataras here in my apartment, if I share their eating patterns, their bacteria, their viruses and worms, will I live as long as the Tuatara? I could develop a taste for Lamellibrachia tube worms, their poop and bacteria. Some of you here have nice houses and big yards, even orchards and farms: adopt tortoises, and eat their poo. The oldest known specimens of arctic sponges are 1,550 years old. Sponge soup? Yum. I’ll post a recipe. Turritopsis nutricula jellyfish might be the only animal in the world to have discovered the fountain of youth. Since it’s capable of cycling from a mature adult stage to an immature polyp stage and back again, there may be no natural limit to its life span. Because they are able to bypass death, the number of individuals is spiking. “We are looking at a worldwide silent invasion (of Turritopsis nutricula jellyfish),”says Dr. Maria Miglietta of the Smithsonian Tropical Marine Institute. I have a solution. Eat them. Not only will humanity stop the silent invasion, but we’ll also live forever.
  3. Sthira

    How I Get Exercise... (using vr)

    Boxing in VR like that would stress the shit out of me. But I really like the idea of VR as an educational tool. ““I’m calling for investments in educational technology that will help create. . . educational software that’s as compelling as the best video game. I want you guys to be stuck on a video game that’s teaching you something other than just blowing something up.” – Barack Obama More easily learning new languages looks useful and cool, and of course space travel — have you tried Mission: ISS? Or journeyed inside a human cell? http://thebodyvr.com/ ”The Body VR: Journey Inside a Cell is an award-winning educational virtual reality experience that takes the user inside a human cell. The experience allows you to travel through the bloodstream and discover how blood cells work to spread oxygen throughout the body. You then enter one of the billions of living cells inside our body and learn how the organelles work together to fight deadly viruses...” I like the looks of Sharecare... https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1656800021020362/ Guess I’m probably going to have to get an Oculus Quest when I’ve enough time and money. Thanks for the reminder.
  4. Sthira

    Biosphere 3

    Has anyone here been to Biosphere 2? I haven’t, but In briefly reading some of its history, the entire project seems a little heartbreaking. (Is that the right word?) ...So much seemingly lost potential in so many areas of basic planetary and human health related inquiry.... Several books exist about the project, can anyone (who has actually read one) recommend one? I wonder what happened to all of the Biosphere 2 crew members (other than just Allen and Walford)? Would initiating a new, Biosphere 3 project help the human longevity movement in any way you imagine? I smell an Elon Musk-like odor of wealthy interest...
  5. “...The biggest mistake professionally successful people make is attempting to sustain peak accomplishment indefinitely. “How can I overcome this tendency? The Buddha recommends, of all things, corpse meditation: Many Theravada Buddhist monasteries in Thailand and Sri Lanka display photos of corpses in various states of decomposition for the monks to contemplate. “This body, too,” students are taught to say about their own body, “such is its nature, such is its future, such is its unavoidable fate.” At first this seems morbid. But its logic is grounded in psychological principles—and it’s not an exclusively Eastern idea. “To begin depriving death of its greatest advantage over us,” Michel de Montaigne wrote in the 16th century, “let us deprive death of its strangeness, let us frequent it, let us get used to it; let us have nothing more often in mind than death.” Yoga practice ends in savasana, the corpse pose. Savasana (to lay there, be still, relax) is called the most difficult yoga pose. We practice dying individually and collectively; savasana ultimately signifies the death of the universe.
  6. For several years I've been spending money on Amphorra Nueavs freshly harvested high-poly olive oil and thinking this is a health food. What's up? Is it, or not? https://www.verywell.com/look-beyond-olive-oil-4011093?utm_content=6960215&utm_medium=email&utm_source=cn_nl&utm_campaign=livinghealthy&utm_term= One of the more common myths about food that I often hear has to do with olive oil. Many people are stunned when I tell them: Olive oil is not a health food. Many people have a misconception about olive oil, wrongly assuming that since it is a major source of calories in a Mediterranean diet, it must be healthy. A Mediterranean diet is rich in unrefined plant foods like vegetables, fruits, nuts, beans, and grains and includes only limited amounts of animal foods like meats and dairy. However, it is the unrefined plant foods of this dietary pattern – the green vegetables, tomatoes, beans and nuts – which supply the bulk of the healthful antioxidants, phytochemicals, and minerals, not the olive oil. But, somehow olive oil has been pinpointed as responsible for the health benefits of eating a Mediterranean diet. Olive oil is a step up from butter or other animal fats, but it is inferior to whole food sources of fat. The results have been mixed on the link between olive oil and cardiovascular health. In 2014, a meta-analysis (study of many studies) evaluating observational studies of olive oil consumption reported that olive oil consumption was associated with a decreased risk of stroke but not coronary heart disease. Nut consumption, in contrast, is consistently linked to at least a 35 percent reduction in the risk of coronary heart disease. A Mediterranean diet may be a bit better than the Standard American Diet, but it does not offer the dramatic protection against heart attacks, strokes, and cancers as does a Nutritarian diet. A Nutritarian diet is the most effective, gold-standard of all longevity-promoting diet. Olive Oil is a Fattening Processed Food When most people think of processed foods, they think of chicken nuggets, hot dogs, and sugary breakfast cereals. Olive oil is never on that list. But, olive oil – like all other cooking oils – is not a whole food. It, too, is a processed food, with the fiber and many beneficial phytochemicals from the original olive removed. Eat real food, not processed food. Olive oil may be better than animal fats and other oils, but it is still highly caloric and fattening; one tablespoon has 120 calories and one-quarter cup has 500 calories. Think of this the next time someone on a cooking show pours olive oil into a pan without using a measuring cup. It is very easy to add a lot of unintended extra calories to your food. The best choice is to get your fats from healthy whole food sources, such as nuts, seeds, and avocados. Nuts are Superior to Olive Oil, Promote Longevity An examination of the benefits of olive oil compared to nuts was tested in a side by side study called the PREDIMED study. The study compared a low-fat diet, a Mediterranean diet supplemented with olive oil, and a Mediterranean diet supplemented with mixed nuts. Both Mediterranean diets reduced blood pressure, fasting glucose levels, and total cholesterol after one year. After about 5 years of follow-up, both Mediterranean diets provided substantial protection against cardiovascular events compared to the low-fat diet. However, when participants were further grouped based on their baseline nut consumption, an important difference emerged. The participants with the lowest risk of death were those that ate three or more servings of nuts a week regularly, and then were assigned to the Mediterranean diet plus nuts group. This study suggests that nuts have a stronger longevity-promoting effect than olive oil. When you ingest fats from healthy whole foods you consume significantly fewer calories and get a much higher fiber and micronutrient value compared to ingesting fats from processed oils. Nuts and seeds contain 40 to 50 calories per tablespoon compared to olive oil’s 120 calories. Nuts and Seeds for a Healthy Weight However, when fats are ingested in the form of extracted oils, they are rapidly absorbed by the body with no fiber to slow them down, and are quickly and completely converted into body fat. If these fats were instead ingested from whole foods, such as seeds, nuts, and avocado, their absorption would be much slower, over hours, not minutes and these fats would be mostly burned for our energy needs and not stored. Also, the fibers, sterols and stanols in the seeds and nuts would bind some of the fat in the digestive tract, like a sponge, limiting the amount of fat absorbed by the body; adding nuts and seeds to the diet, despite their calorie density, promotes weight loss and healthy weight maintenance, not weight gain. Top Your Salad with Nuts and Seeds, Not Olive Oil Nuts and seeds, are associated with reduced cholesterol levels and dramatic protection against coronary heart disease and sudden cardiac death. Since fats help you absorb the carotenoids in vegetables, replacing the olive oil on your salad with nuts and seeds reduces cardiovascular risk and calories absorbed while still providing the maximum nutrient value from the salad. In addition to increasing the absorption of nutrients in vegetables, nuts and seeds supply their own spectrum of micronutrients including cholesterol-lowering plant sterols, minerals, and antioxidants. Plus several seeds and nuts (flax, hemp, chia, walnuts) are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, beneficial especially for brain health. Some seeds – flax, chia, and sesame in particular – are rich in lignans, plant estrogens that protect against breast cancer. Nuts and seeds also promote a healthy weight and protect against diabetes. Replacing olive oil-based dressings with vinegar, fruit and nut-based dressings are definitely the way to go. Nuts and seeds, not oil, have shown dramatic protection against heart disease in scientific studies. We need to get more of our fats from these wholesome foods and less from processed oils and animal fats. Sources: Domenech M, Roman P, Lapetra J, et al. Mediterranean diet reduces 24-hour ambulatory blood pressure, blood glucose, and lipids: one-year randomized, clinical trial. Hypertension 2014, 64:69-76. Estruch R, Ros E, Salas-Salvado J, et al. Primary prevention of cardiovascular disease with a Mediterranean diet. N Engl J Med 2013, 368:1279-1290. Guasch-Ferre M, Bullo M, Martinez-Gonzalez MA, et al. Frequency of nut consumption and mortality risk in the PREDIMED nutrition intervention trial. BMC Med 2013, 11:164. Kris-Etherton PM, Hu FB, Ros E, Sabate J. The role of tree nuts and peanuts in the prevention of coronary heart disease: multiple potential mechanisms. J Nutr 2008, 138:1746S-1751S. Martinez-Gonzalez MA, Dominguez LJ, Delgado-Rodriguez M. Olive oil consumption and risk of CHD and/or stroke: a meta-analysis of case-control, cohort and intervention studies. Br J Nutr 2014, 112:248-259
  7. And I say healthy freaks because I donated today at a Red Cross drive at a large research university, and literally nine out of ten people in the large room (dozens of volunteers and donors) were obese or overweight. I'm not exaggerating. Not being judgemental here, either, but I could have shot a photo. Nearly everyone -- even the sweet volunteer removing my blood -- was fatso city. So we may have "healthier" blood since we're apparently eating less and eating healthier, or is that a stretch? Does eating well matter to blood donation quality? I donated 2-units of double red cells which makes things easier and quicker for blood to get it to those who need it. They had trouble locating a vein on me, and it took them awhile to get what they needed out of me, which was awkward. Also my iron levels were low bottom end -- 13.2 ml -- and range for males is evidently 13.5 - 20 (they said). WebMD says 12.5. My 13.2 was a level after more than 24-hours of (my daily) intermittent fast, and not eating is supposedly when iron levels outta be highest? You know more than I do, dear reader. I'm wondering if I should supplement iron to avoid anemia? I eat no meat, am a practicing longterm vegan, but do eat loads of legumes, spinach, nuts, seeds daily. Apparently veg sources of iron are less than optimal? Also my pulse was only 42; temp 96.9; blood pressure was low 99/69; weight was 148 (which is up for me -- I've recently been eating more). All these numbers (?) caused people to ask questions, and kinda look at me. Maybe I'm paranoid from coffee. Stop drinking that poison, Sthira... I donated blood to help people who need it. I gave double red after a 4 hour (rigorous) ballet rehearsal (lots of jumps, lifts, high energy crap...) and despite giving up 614 ml of blood (I think that's the amount) I strangely didn't feel any lightheadedness, which I expected...
  8. Sthira

    Olive oil? Healthy or not?!

    Nice reminder. I'm digging this from Amphora: https://amphoranueva.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=213 Chilean Coratina "Harvest Date: May 2018 Biophenols: 645 FFA: .19 Perox: 6.3 Oleic: 79.5 A wonderfully fruity Chilean Oil! This Coratina has classic notes of green banana and apple peel. Viscous with a jolt of pungency on the back end. An excellent choice for folks looking for a high phenol oil with a kick!"
  9. Sthira

    Drowning in kombucha

    Happy Spring, scrawny people! I'm on 15-17% CR again for the past six months, including water-only fasting stints, and I'm wondering about your take on nutrition in commercial brands of Kombucha, e.g., GT's? I've even done some kombucha fasts, oddly enough, wherein I drink only water or kombucha and don't consume anything else. When refeeding, I'm drinking hideous amounts of it, like 36-64 oz per day, and is it healthy, kombucha from the store, or should I begin the weaning process? GT's kombucha seems to round off some vitamin and nutrient deficiencies as seen in my cronometer dailies, I like it, it's delicious, it's expensive, it's habit-forming.. is it also junk food?
  10. Sthira

    How to Avoid Bonking?

    When offered the luxury, I let myself bonk for as long as I feel like it. What's my hurry? I think there's also an adjustment period we need to give our bodies when changing habits, especially if abruptly. Like I do -- sudden change is a kind of stress and the body, poor thing, it's just a mammal and it needs a moment to do whatever it needs to do. I guess the problem is when you need to rest and you cannot rest because of, well, all of ... That. I get enormous energy from fasting now, but it can be inconsistent. Ups and downs might be sharper. Way up I go with loads of sunshine for everything; then way down into sleep for maybe longer than socially acceptable.
  11. Sthira

    CRON without counting calories?

    Maybe yes maybe no: doesn't blood pressure fluctuate all the time? I guess we're looking for trends. Proud advice I took from others is that CR is a practice and not a perfect. Sounds tipsy in words maybe to say it like that, like wandering along a cliff, but I'm a perfectionist by nature so I'm easily upset when I'm not humming along at peak heights of new skill attained instantly, effortlessly. Something like that. Then I'm hard on myself when I realize oh shit I'm not living up to my tightrope-crossing standards and death is below without a net. Stress. If you're eyeballing, and you're not perfectly weighing your food down to the bitter gram with a calibrated, scale of hideous perfection, then don't beat yourself up (sorry cliche alert code red). The fact that you're trying this thing, CR or ON or whatever, the fact that you're conscious and noticing and caring enough to document is a step into canyons of many steps (sorry, I'm full of "traveling canyons east to west" cliches). Also that you weight has dropped, you notice, you care, you care enough to wonder am I practicing CR or not, and is it working to do .... whatever .... is pretty cool. At least it is here, anyway, quiet virtual corner it's become. Do Good Habits!
  12. Sthira


    So I fasted for a few hundred days back in 2014, and I got good at it and it felt good. Like I was doing something good for body and spirit. I started with shortie day fasts, nothing consistent, then kept up the practice and increased to longer fasts -- 3, 4, 5, 7, and I did one 10-day fast. Then I lost interest. This year I've returned to fasting -- inspired by Valter Longo, I suppose, but also this guy with an awesome last name. He seems pretty solid:
  13. Sthira

    The Call of the Wild

    Out of all of your great posts, Dean, I think this one is inside my top two or three favorites. Thank you.
  14. Sthira

    Purportedly Xenohormetic Phytochemicals

    How do we vegans feel about consuming mushrooms? I admit I love them ferociously, I eat them and eat them, I steam them, steam them up with guilt and olive oil, I mean, kingdom fungi are more closely related to kingdom animalia than they are to plants. ..... I wander around after the rains gathering wild mushrooms in the mist; few city folk here dare to chance it, or even notice they exist. If anyone around my ridiculous circus of a life notices I'm gathering mushrooms from the abandoned fields and busy street sides, they might say: "Aren't you AFRAID of DEATHCAPS" I'm like, nope. Do mushrooms have moms and faces and feel pain? Are mushrooms on no-no lists, dear vegans, or am I awful?
  15. Thanks for that link!! I was looking for a clear definition, i.e. "a person is CR'd iff..." You're not going to get one . Go be a lab mouse . Sorry: that's just the best we can do. Happily, you seem to have quite correctly understood the issue. I've also just pinned a FAQ post: How Many Calories Should I Eat? What's My Goal Weight? What's My Setpoint? What "%CR" Am I?. So, no one will ever ask this question ever again :) . Sorry, but I'm asking a question ever again. In that helpful pinned FAQ, we aren't allowed to post follow ups, nor quote the original text, so I'll ask here. Michael writes in FAQ: "People starting CR would very much like to have definitive, hard-and-fast answers to these questions, and unfortunately, there just isn't any way to give one in free-living humans! No one can tell you the exact point at which you're "on CR" or what "%CR" you are. These are guidelines and principles for entering the "CR continuum."" Check. Understood. Guidelines and principles. Michael writes: "If you are lucky enough to have had a clear, healthy 'setpoint' in your youth — a weight to which you tended to gravitate when you were in your early twenties, and that was within the healthy BMI range — take that as your baseline, and restrict Calories down to a level that keeps you at least 15% below that." Check. In my early twenties I was within the healthy BMI range, and my current BMI fluctuates between 10% and 20% below that. That would seem to indicate CR. But I've always been an ectomorph, says my mom, even when you were a baby, she says, you looked like a spider monkey. All arms and legs. But even now, below weight from the early twenties, I'm not sure if I'm on CR or not. Not for reasons of sickness or overexercise, I'm indeed cutting calories. Michael writes: "Wherever you start from, you need to cut Calories. Ultimately, the goal is to keep Calories lower than your physiology 'thinks' it needs, and a level of Calorie intake that only normalizes an overweight body will simply return you to the historical norm for our species, not induce the anti-aging metabolic shift that characterizes CR." For background before my question: I've been more or less honestly measuring, weighing, and entering my daily diet into COM since 2010, so I'm going on nearly eight years of focused documentation. Recording what I eat and what I do not eat (e.g., "fasting" is programmed to record into COM as "zero" calories) has become a habit. So, tallying up "Trends" in COM, clicking on "Report" for "All Time" (in an iPhone app) the zero calorie days from fasting add up to bring down the totals. My all time food intake for the past nearly eight years is "1,806 kcal consumed" versus "2,040 kcal burned" or, roughly, I'm maybe around 10% CRed, which seems about right, at least if I go by body weight from early twenties to now. My question is probably unanswerable, but who better to ask than Michael, and I'm probably not even looking for a definitive answer, just guidelines and principles, remember, but I don't think I've seen this question asked before. I'm not practicing daily cutting of calories below my BMR, which is 2040 kcal. But I'm fasting -- longer fasts (8-10 days), medium fasts (5-8 days), short fasts (1-3 days), and all of that while also "intermittent fasting" (doing one meal per day, allowing 20-hours to elapse between refeedings). Yet when I refeed from fasts, I tend to go over my BMR. I don't "gorge" but I do tend to eat around 2,500 to 3,000 kcal for a few days, more like "controlled feasting" and I'm following the "optimal nutrition" part of the equation, if that matters, eating only plants, following a Mediterranean thing, and so most of my extra calories derive from olive oil, legumes, nuts, and seeds. Recently I've started eating sardines again, too, so I've transitioned for now away from my strict vegan and vegetarian past. No dairy or meat, though, but sometimes I eat a few cans of sardines. The question is -- if I'm not practicing CR during refeeding after fasts, but sometimes going over my daily calorie requirements, am I still practicing CR? The zero calorie days bring down the overall calorie intake -- even when I'm not practicing daily CR. Can CR be spaced out in time like this, or "should" it be daily CR practiced with daily consistency over long periods of time? Sorry to be so long winded.., Like I said, there probably isn't any answer in humans to this, but I'm throwing it out there anyway, to fellow humans, while we all wait for something better to emerge from clinical trials that aims to repair the damages caused by aging, rather than this "messing-with-metabolism" CR project that we're practicing. For me, fasting seems easier long term than daily CR because although I'm doing my best to measure, weigh, and document everything I eat, I assume I'm still getting numbers wrong. Food values aren't consistent. When I fast, I know for sure that I'm cutting calories to zero. When I eat, I'm only guessing.
  16. Hmm, I realize this is a thread about intermittent fasting, which I practice, so I apologize for the swing out. Me, I've no problem with the natural flows of conversation in online discussions, especially in dead zones like this one. Have you considered a Reddit AMA, Michael, you seem to know about AI's future impact on human aging, and it might be fun in a livelier setting? Meanwhile: In eight decades of completed work in animal studies (deep bow to the animals), what changes in which parameters are relevant to aging humans? Changes consistently seen for a given intervention between mouse and human are consistent with the intervention's translatability; those that aren't weigh against it. Animal studies obviously have been of historical use in medicine, as I noted above. So the suggestion isn't that we ditch all prior work or quit paying attention to current animal studies as foundational and practical contributions. Rather, the suggestion is that humans will keep looking for different ways to reduce suffering and improve life. Animal models have taken us to a point, and soon they'll drop off and become even more irrelevant than they already are, like your horse and buggy analogies in the Dr. de Grey book. AI will be medically useful during our lifetimes because it already is; dismissing it isn't what you're asserting. Nevertheless, about animal model translatability, you write: Because it is all we've got. It's not all we've got. Robotic surgeons, for example, are here and they're not going away. I must be misunderstanding you. First, it's false. That's interesting good news. I certainly don't see AI potentiality in dark and threatening movie tones -- eek, violent sci-fi films, I hate them. I'm excited about possibilities for AI's potential use in helping to solve not only human suffering and damage repair, but also in wider issues like ecosystem degradation, species extinction, alternative energy solutions, global climate change reversals, extraterrestrial travel... From the Snopes article you linked, this: "...We are in infant stages now, but I think we will subsume AI and make it part of ourselves; better to control it. Implanting neural nets, within our brains that are connected to it, etc. Now that raises all kinds of as yet unseen “have and have not” issues. But that’s another subject for another time." Gibberish isn't helpful, that's why the chatbotting gibberish was halted. AI won't stay stuck in place. The things must crawl before they walk, though, and before their usefulness to us unfurls. And they're already here anyway. I see absolutely no way for AI to tell us how to intervene in aging in a way that would preëpt animal testing. If you ask the AI of Oz how to retard aging in humans and it replies "take 1500 mg of extract of untested plant X and microdose cyanide daily," is any sensible person going to take it without first testing it in rodents? And where is the AI going to get its data, if not from rodent studies? Then you're not looking carefully enough. Are these opinions a general SENS position? No way, right? I mean, do SENS researchers see absolutely no way for future advances in AI to assist us in how to intervene in human aging? Of course preemptions of animal models won't occur until more intelligent models develop and mature. For example, eventually Google will map out every metabolic activity that occurs within your body. Probably static at first. Like an internal Google maps, they're already working on this part. Then progress will lead to dynamics, live, as in your own personal chemical reactions that are occurring within your own body right now, we see them now. It's hard for me to imagine that this isn't one of Calico's aims. Baby steps first, though, and they ain't talking publicly because why should they? Fruit ain't ripe. SENS ain't talking to us much, either, are y'all? AI helps with healthcare because we can feed into it data from clinical trials and healthcare registries for various clinical outcomes. This is already useful, and will become more so as more and more electronic medical record data becomes mineable. That will improve cancer care and other kinds of ordinary medicine, but it doesn't help us with aging, because we have no equivalent data for aging — except in rodents, and translational studies built up from rodents. Sure, we feed these things data from clinical trials and healthcare registries until they can think for themselves. They'll be doing that, thinking independey, and hopefully into the directions we steer them, as your Snopes link suggests. One direction we may steer AI is into the repair of aging-damaged human bodies. We'll do this because we must do this -- the trillions in healthcare costs from these aging damaged baby boomers will spur faster progress.
  17. In eight decades of completed work in animal studies (deep bow to the animals), what changes in which parameters are relevant to aging humans? If few, then why, as Tom may be suggesting, continue with this model? Facebook shut down an artificial intelligence engine after developers discovered that the AI had created its own unique language that humans can’t understand. So if that's true, doors to AI models may open to supplement or supersede animal models. So, do any SENS-funded projects plan to advance or incorporate AI models? Might they in future? Given Dr. de Grey's background, ya'd think it'd be obvious, but... If so or if not, Calico seems like a promise for a progressive model, no? Perhaps you don't think so, or perhaps I'm misunderstanding this bit of darkness: I doubt many people here fail to recognize and pay tribute to the countless animals of many species who've contributed their suffering and their lives to advance human health (mice for penicillin; guinea pigs for TB; the eyes of monkeys, cats and rabbits for macular degeneration; frogs for asthma; rabbits for meningitis; dogs and pigs for kidney transplants; insulin in dogs...) But clearly there's a better way forward for both humans and wildlife, and artificial intelligence seems less cruel and perhaps more relevant. The Wizard of Oz: "Child, you're talking to a man who's laughed in the face of death, sneered at doom, and chuckled at catastrophe..." Certainly, we should face the truth about our existential situation. Now, having accepted your existential situation: what are you going to do about it? If you aren't prepared to accept that we'll all grow old and withered and sad just like our ancestors (and, for that matter, our peers), you use the best data you've got — and that's largely the eight decades of work that's been done in rodents, and the additional rodent studies that are going to keep coming down the pipes from now until we each reach Escape Velocity or the grave.Additional rodent studies? That's it? Are not AI advances in algorithms and software currently improving the quality and availability of healthcare services? Won't these continue, lol? Unless we're all drowned in filth by climate disruptions, there's little reason for that model to not replace the animal model in human medicine. Where is SENS in the AI jam? Oh, and why not citizen science amongst us science literate CR ppl to investigate "intermittent fasting?" Which parameters relevant to aging humans did we learn from eight decades of animal data? Let's use those while we muggles await Hogwarts interventions.
  18. Citizen science for human health as it relates to eating, e.g., intermittent fasting. Let's do it: https://www.zooniverse.org/projects?discipline=medicine&page=1&status=live
  19. Screw human lifespan studies; obviously they're past us. And leave alone the near-extinction non-hominoid simians and great ape brothers and sisters -- god knows we've fucked them to near oblivion anyway. Give them habitats and peace and quiet. Artificial intelligence models for human lifespan extension (like weather prediction models, idk) might be part of "a solution": you add one plus one equals two, and calculate this must be Calico's thinking? Oh The Great Oz. Or, citizen science amongst fellow geeky tinkerers. Let's do it! Meanwhile, I've toned down my own over-fasting, toned it down to one five day fast per two months, that is, and I only eat one meal per day, from 2pm to 5pm (god knows why) so I let 21 hours elapse (like numerology) between refeedings (who the hell knows if this is beneficial n1 human behavior... but it's fun and interesting and I'm aging right on schedule with everyone else around).
  20. I don't think Tom's being unreasonable, and tend to agree with him here. No, evidently "we" can't perform birth to death human lifespan studies; but we can pursue scientifically creative short term, controlled "intermittent fasting" (defined) experiments amongst honest, reasonable people who are seeking health and life extension hints. Any one of us (especially y'all retired ex-engineer types) could "easily" thunk up us some citizen science. But evidently writers here and writers there prefer waiting around for government- and academia-supported projects (projects chiefly designed for publishing success stories and bolstering personal reputations and incomes, hence "mice and other model organisms is [sic] what we've got...") If we were interested (dreaming now is sthira, oh look, y'all stand back, like dreamtime drum circle fantasies, too far out) then we could devise citizen science projects amongst like-minded, honest people. We don't. So face truth instead -- we're really lazy if honestly look within, obviously myself included, and so as a deadly consequence we'll all grow old and withered and sad just like our ancestors. Anyway, keep on beating that funding drum and we'll sit on our asses and await The Great Oz (I just rewatched Wizard of Oz, haha, and it reminds me of rodent studies and all that mainstream sciency stuff...)
  21. Sthira


    Given that he, Aaron, is presumably pleased about "$40,000/mo in revenue" (https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/cronometer) wouldn't it be polite if he updated Cronometer? An update could offer helpful RDA rounding suggestions, like, say I enter in today's food (avocado toast, broccoli hunks, whatever) and then the program helpfully suggested specific food items to meet today's RDA? Tell us, updated Cronometer, that we need 16 goji berries today in order to achieve lev. Confession: I bought the premium version last year, go the gold, etc, and so this year I was like, uh, why, what for, it's not improving, is it, it's not changing, it looks like auto pilot gold $40,000 a month with no upgrades, and plus, I don't even notice much fun between the paid version and the unpaid version (not on an iPhone anyway -- are laptop versions better?) Aaron's probably happy with money, he's hopefully floating in the warm waters of Svalbard -- but many of us are poor skinny whining schlubs still obsessing over grams of adzuki -- so upgrade your golden goose, fine fellow, we politely suggest now. Let's send him paper letters written in ink, drop these sealed with spit and stamps into blue-not-rusting mailboxes. Old fashioned Cronometer, staid but classic, I still use it like I still listen to the Grateful Dead, and it's also mildly popular in public (try suggesting Cronometer to someone seeking truth-in-their-daily-diet, and they're like, did it, tried it, gave up on it cos it's dull). Hey Cronometer: ?
  22. Sthira

    The Singularity May be Closer than It Appears

    Hmm. I think AI and the slug's pace of medicoscience just needs more cool people who are less interested in grinding out $$$ off sick people and more into the Technology and the Hippies – Overview “Forget antiwar protests, Woodstock, even long hair. The real legacy of the sixties generation is the computer revolution” – Stewart Brand in an article from Time Magazine What the Dormouse Said: How the Sixties Counterculture Shaped the Personal Computer Industry —————————— From Counterculture to Cyberculture: Stewart Brand, the Whole Earth Network, and the Rise of Digital Utopianism —————————— Specifically, the personal computing and networking world was born out of visions – NOT just visions to sell more things, but visions of how to connect the world and give us all access to information and knowledge. As chronicled in the books above, much of this grew from worldviews which were influenced by psychedelic drugs. Using Steve Jobs as an example: “Steve Jobs grew up in a lower-middle class suburban neighborhood in the 1960s. When he was a young adult, in theearly 1970s, he delved into eastern mysticism, Zen Buddhism, and hippie ideals.” * “I have no words to explain the effect the LSD had on me, although, I can say it was a positive life changing experience for me and I am glad I went through that experience.” – Steve Jobs * At another time, Jobs said “taking LSD was “one of the two or three most important things” he did in his life.” Did Taking LSD Make Steve Jobs more creative? One hardly needs to say more – the defining persona of the entire personal computer revolution was a hippie! LSD and other drug experimentation was just one of his many counterculture habits. He was known to walk around barefoot or with small tattered sandals, eat raw or vegan foods and even eschew frequent bathing! Steve Wozniak was also, as the pictures show, a long hair, prankster and hacker. As a drop of the University of California Berkeley, he certainly fits the definition of a counterculture member. His ethics are pure “hippiedom” – i.e. he’s not in it for the money, he enjoys nothing more than helping people, etc. – and, as a bona fide of his hippie roots, he paid for and organized the US Festivals, some of the largest post-Woodstock rock festivals ever created. Although the two Steves are famous examples, many of those working hard on the code and hardware had lofty ideals of changing the world. http://thankahippie.com/2014/06/02/technology-and-the-hippies-overview/
  23. Sthira

    CR Mini-Retreat in Costa Rica?

    Wow from both of you so much of the good stuff is here, Gordo and Dean. Thank you again for the bright beautiful colors and descriptions, intensity and honesty. And these are tough experiences to describe without sounding like damned fools (which neither of you do). Words are only hints -- one gnarly finger pointing at that dead moon. I did ayahuasca with my girlfriend in Peru a few years ago -- I was in a much different space back then, not "happy" (ahem, never have I known what consistent happiness could possibly mean to anyone) but certainly much, much happier then than now. So I wonder what going through the ayahuasca experience all over again now -- while injured and nearly completely miserable -- would work out for me. Would it twist me down deeper into more terrifying honesty? Or would the purging be a long term benefit? Back then I thought similarly to how Dean is expressing it now: I had no need -- zero -- to ever venture into this powerful medicine's kingdom again. Now, I feel differently, more cautious, yes, and even more respectful. Many aspects of both of your experiences, Gordo and Dean, dear ones, resonate. This one from Dean sings to me Uliana Lopatkino moves her arms, this is how: https://youtu.be/-T2UeKKac-s As if her motion is yours, my motion is hers, his movement is theirs, ours is one, all of us, we're all one, we don't seem to get that truth in normal every day living, the grind, but we are connected by motion and divinity, as if these invisible energy strands bind us, everything is the same. Like Dean's puzzle pieces. Again, I sound the damned fool -- my ancestors were court gesters, according to family lore -- so trying to wrap words around insights -- no -- but I can dance it out plainly. Grace: that's enough. Yes I like this, I felt the same. Has the experience lasted for you at all now that you're a few weeks removed from it? Sure, medicine sweet in the short term -- but the long term affects should stand on their own two feet, too. Do they? Will they? Was this just a one time cool, transformative experienced blessed upon you in the moment that's now fading fast? Or do we carry it through to the ends of our lives and possibly farther, if you believe in that sorta thing? Neither you nor Gordo were (eek:violently) "sick" during the initial episodes. I was. Oh boy was I! My stomach ain't iron like yalls'. Retching itself was a powerful experience in and of itself, standing alone it was enough. It wasn't the terrible vomiting of a drunken state. It was more the release darkness inside that felt bottomless, and I could choose to stay there for hours, purging darkness that seems without end. Or stop it. Now. Rise toward the light. The visual fun you both describe is like following the light up and out of this deep well. And to me, oddly, this was one of the chief benefits of the ayahuasca experience: flying trapeze with dark ghosts. Again, sounds like nonsense. Thank you again for your words, both of you are special people, we should probably meet in person some day. I hope that happens, anyway, life is strange. Please, I hope you'll both write more because I'm here to tell you that the experience will keep turning inside of you. And those upcoming shared insights may carry their own beauty and intensity.
  24. Sthira

    CR Mini-Retreat in Costa Rica?

    Thank you for your wonderful and lovely description of your experience. I'm wondering about your afterglow? Are you noticing any longer term effects from the aya? Also, did you enter into the agreement with any sort of malady like hmmm depression or anxiety? I'd love to hear more! And about Dean's trip, too.
  25. A 24 hour fast for a rodent would be how many fasting days or weeks for a (healthy) person? And in 48 hours for a fasting rodent will lose how much of its body? We aren't famine victims. We limit calories or go for some moderate fasting followed by a healthy diet obsessively recorded on Cronometer and attempting to hit RDAs. Is a famine victim analogy appropriate? Researchers could choose to perform experiments in healthy, fasting humans, but they don't. I'd rather address why ignoring or failing to perform human studies is acceptable. For example, researchers could fast a group of ten people for three days, a group of ten ad lib feeders for three days, and then check before and after blood, and see what happens. Do you find that those studies have been done? But you mean in rodents? I don't base my eating and fasting decisions on mouse and rat studies. These studies could be performed in healthy people -- and maybe they're being done now -- but until then we're making educated guesses. If the goal is to delay the diseases of aging, our best choice seems to remain CR. But even if you practiced disciplined CR for your entire life, how many extra healthy years might you gain? No one knows. But I doubt it's very much added lifespan -- unless you're paying no attention to healthy lifestyle practices -- what maybe a few years? LS extension will come out of labs, not diet tweaking, imho.