Sibiriak

I agree with Mccoy that a 100% vegan diet would probably require "10 to 20% more protein than a mixed diet, that is the RDA would become 0.9 to 1.0 g/kg/d. " (That refers to protein primarily from whole foods, not necessarily vegetable protein isolates.) So your 131% of RDA intake coming from a pure vegan diet in reality represents a protein intake not much greater than RDA levels, if at all, when absorption/bioavailability is taken into consideration. No?

It's not about "random damage", but specifically the multiple ways aging and disease result from "the accumulation of intra-intermolecular covalent bonds (crosslinks) between molecules with slow turnovers, such as collagen and elastin of the extracellular matrix (ECM) " This is not a new topic, of course, but the authors go into a lot of dimensions that haven't been discussed that much. FWIW, I'm not a a huge fan of Aubrey de Grey myself. Particularly wrt the business aspect of his endeavors. But I try to assess his scientific contributions individually and on their own merit, or lack of it, apart from his broader anti-aging philosophy and business model. In any case, de Grey merely made some " helpful comments on the manuscript ", so it would be silly to draw any conclusions from that acknowledgment, even from an ad hominem perspective. Perhaps your anti-Russian attitudes (well noted in the Calment controversy discussion) have predisposed you against this paper? Take a look at the full text; there are some interesting ideas there.

Thanks! Great work by these Russian scientists, apparently collaborating with Aubrey de Grey to some extent.

Good point. Exercise (and even better, sport, vigorous outdoor activities, dance, etc) is great for mood and cognitive performance etc.

Following up on Michael Rae's comments cited here. Calorie Restriction and Sarcopenia

Calorie Restriction and Sarcopenia

My files are your files, as the saying goes. Personally, I'm not a vegan. I drink modest amounts of kefir, and eat some oily red fish once every week or two, and some tasty cheese rarely. The vast bulk of my dietary intake is vegan though. Putting aside ecological and ethical issues, I sincerely doubt there is any health/longevity advantage in going totally vegan, and eating a small amount of animal products may actually be advantageous, depending on the individual.

Lol. Thanks for the clarification. When you wrote, "who says that if the lady had access to a gym and practiced light resistance training she may have added a few years to her life? " I presumed you meant practicing RT for some period of time way before reaching that age. But you could be right, I suppose, it's never to late to start (unless you're on your deathbed, when it actually is too late.)

That would certainly be in accord with Longo's, Fontana's and most other longevity specialists I've read, and of course my own suggestions: Actually there have been many trials looking into the effects of various exercise modalities (strength training, power training, functional training, balance training etc.) on sarcopenia-related and other health/longevity related parameters. The benefits of resistance training /functional training are pretty well established, but, as always, there are many controversies and unanswered questions. The literature is vast, so I can only point to a few somewhat arbitrary examples, with the hope that you read the full studies at your leisure and assiduously follow the tracks to related ones, aided I might suggest by reasonable amounts of Italian espresso coffee+adaptogens (per this dubious study just cited by Al Pater!) Power Training: Can it Improve Functional Performance in Older Adults? A Systematic Review Systematic review of functional training on muscle strength, physical functioning, and activities of daily living in older adults (2014) Illustration of possible body motor elements required to vacuum a room Long-term aerobic exercise preserves muscle mass and function with age (2019) Upper Extremity Muscle Volumes and Functional Strength After Resistance Training in Older Adults (2013) The Importance of Resistance Exercise Training to Combat Neuromuscular Aging (2019) Strength training for the older adult (2009)

True. There's a thread(s) with some good data and links related to this topic. I'll look for it when I get a moment. The author is Vesanto Melina. I have the book Becoming Vegan: Comprehensive Edition by Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina. It's a good resource, but it does have a few gaps. The CR Society rules! (If you're good at using the search function).

I'd go for it, but without the whey, gelatin, egg yolks, coconut oil, and kefir'd cream. I do drink modest amounts of regular kefir. Okay, I might try the kefir'd cream, at least once.

That sounds nice, but from my view, substantially increasing protein intake (especially animal protein) and calories as well-- while young/middle-aged-- with the aim of preventing the decline in muscle mass will 1) in fact do little to prevent sarcopenia in old age, and worse 2) may accelerate the deterioration of those other factors. Put anothere way, following a low calorie, relatively low protein, nutritionally rich and balanced plant-based diet (flexibly adjusted for individual differences) is the best choice if your aim is increased healthspan and lifespan. (It won't be the best choice for bodybuilders, certain athletes, hedonists, lovers of joyous social eating rituals, live -in- the- moment-who-cares-if-you-die-young creative spirits, warriors, revolutionaries, religious devotees et al who have different priorities). There is no need to alter that approach by increasing protein and calories throughout one's life with the aim of increasing muscle mass to prevent sarcopenia. The chance that such increased muscle mass will prevent sarcopenia in old age is very slim. The chance that the increased protein/calories will detrimentally effect health and longevity is substantial. It's therefore not worth the risk. YMMV Carpe Diem!

Mccoy, sarcopenia is an issue primarily in advanced age. That's when it can become highly debilitating, or even deadly. That's when sarcopenia/dynapenia/frailty- whatever you want to call it-- can threaten your ability to live independently. That's when it can threaten you with serious injury or death from falls and fractures. Your almost 60. Sarcopenia isn't an issue now. But what about when you are 80, 90, 100, 110? You have suggested that your increased (animal) protein intake + hypertrophy-focused resistance training is going to prevent sarcopenia, ie. the AGE-RELATED decline in neuromuscular function. If your protocol is not going to have any significant effect during those later years of your life, your claim that its going to prevent "sarcopenia" becomes essentially meaningless. Preventing sarcopenia when you are not really old is not the issue here! Previously you wrote: You've suggested that we must balance the increase in health/longevity from protein restriction with prevention of sarcopenia by increasing muscle mass via increased protein intake + hypertrophy training. And not just increasing protein somewhat as one hit's 65-75 years old, as recommended by Levine, Longo and others. You have suggested increased (animal) protein intake/ hypertrophy training ALL THROUGH the middle of life. i.e for decades in advance of old age. And the justification you put forward is that it will combat sarcopenia. My research has led me to believe that in fact, maintaining or increasing muscle mass will most likely NOT prevent sarcopenia in OLD AGE. I conclude, therefore, that Longo et al. are correct. There is no reason to signficantly increase protein intake, especially animal protein, when one is young/middle aged. To repeat, I believe the evidence shows that a low calorie, relatively low protein, nutritionally rich and balanced plant-based diet, flexibly adjusted for age and individual differences (admitting some unusual exceptions) combined with vigorous and varied physical exertion, sport, outdoor activities etc . supported where necessary by individualized resistance training is the best formula for all aspects of health/longevity including sarcopenia prevention.

Yes-- "some degree of strength" maybe. BUT AN EXTREMELY LOW degree AT BEST as a matter of empirical fact. No one is denying that there is a connection between muscle mass and strength. Please read this excerpt posted above closely: The point is this: AS YOU GET OLD, the loss of muscle strength and quality (aka sarcopenia, dynapenia or whatever you want to call it) is NOT primarily due to the loss of muscle mass, AND maintaining or increasing muscle mass does NOT prevent that loss of muscle strength and quality. Those are the empirical results found in various studies; not the results of mechanistic speculation. As a matter of empirical observation in multiple studies, only a small amount of the variance in strength is explained by loss of muscle mass. This is because there are OTHER FACTORS causing the loss of muscle strength and quality APART FROM the loss of muscle mass. (Please, read the full texts of the articles I posted which go into great detail on all those other factors implicated in the loss of muscles strength and quality.) Maintaining or increasing muscle mass cannot counteract or compensate for the deterioration on all those other components of the whole neuromuscular/skeletal system. Again, let's not speculate-- if you disagree, please cite studies that show that maintaining or gaining muscle mass does, as a matter of empirical observation, prevent AGE-RELATED decline in muscle strength and quality to a significant degree.

Apparently Fontana (like Longo) is okay with some amount of fish, based on this chapter 9 subheading (I haven't read the details): "Fish: substitute meat with fish for the good of your heart 127" In any case, he thinks a longevity diet can be enhanced by including a little EVOO: "Extra-virgin olive oil: the healthiest condiment 129" He could be biased, though. He's Italian!