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This is an issue which has been gnawing at my subconcscious for a while. Why bodybuilders are so keen on animal-derived protein? They always insist on lean beef or, alternatively, chicken. All other things being equal, the same amount of plant-based protein should provide an equal growth. But it is not like that. Bodybuilders would eat whatever satisfies their desire for larger muscles; if tofu or tempeh would show to bring about bigger muscles, we can be sure they would be eating soy products like mad. They don't though. Experience has thought them. They are not advocates for paleo nutrition, they are simply muscle-building machines. So what it is? In teh recent podcast featuring Valter Longo and Rich Roll, the latter asks the former what's in animal protein which is so detrimental to health. surprisingly, Valter Longo does not answer straight away, he says it's not very clear. So, I did one simple thing. I plotted a few animal and plant-based foods according to their contgent of Leucine (mTor activator) and Methionine (IGF-1 activator). The graph is very eloquent. I chose either 100 gr portions (beef, chicken, tofu, salmon, pumpernickel bread) or other significant quantities (250 ml milk). Beef, chicken, salmon, overwhelm the Leucine and methionine content of plant-based food. Tofu is well below a half the Leucine of lean beef and chicken, with one quarter the methionine. Is it so simple? I mean, is the above difference enough to justify the stronger anabolic effect of animal based protein? Maybe so, together with the fibreous matrix of plant-based protein which may make'em less available and the known, lowest availability of protein in green leaves (low Jones' factor). Of course, the higher anabolic effect means easier overamplification of mTOR activity and consequent aging and cancer hazard (plus other factors like pro-inflammatory agents, TMAO and so on). Tofu and soymilk remain very good plant-based protein sources for those who wish to grow muscles on a vegan diet. Soymilk surprisingly has the same Leu content of cow milk, with half the meth content. Some portions may be not too meaningful, so suggestions are welcome to change quantities and make foods more directly comparable. Last but nto least, Leu and meth might not be the only amminoacids responsible, although the role of Leucine as a necessary signaling factor for mTOR phosporylation is well known.
Dear all, Sorry if the topic overlaps with some parts of previous threads but I couldn't find a specific one. Tried the forum search + google search. I've written in some previous post about the debated official protein RDA of 0.83 g kg-1 d-1, which has remained unchanged for a while now, 15 years I reckon. Now, aside from generic statements, I was missing something more specific and scientific upon the reccomended protein intake of vegans, those who only eat plant-based sources of protein. I could find only a few references. The official RDA (original studies metanalysis from Rand et al., 2003) does not differentiate protein sources and the studies are usually based on mixed protein sources). Davis-Melina, 2014, 'Becoming Vegan' book (excellent handbook by the way). They reccomend, based on limited literature, +10% on the official RDA, that is about 0.9 g kg-1 d-1. This because apparently the fibrous matrix allows less assimilation of protein than the matrix of animal based products. Jack Norris website, with just a few references. From such references, Jack Norris suggests a value in the region of 1 to 1.1 g kg-1 d-1 for vegans American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM), the American Dietetic Association (ADA), and Dietitians of Canada 2009 statement for vegetarian athletes is +10% than omivorous ahtletes: 1.3 to 1.9 kg-1 d-1, the upper values of the range related to strength sports. I've already set my cronometer minimum threshold for protein to 1 g kg-1 d-1, but considering that I'm exercising with weights, I might need more, like 1.1. It makes sense that I'm in the upper percentiles of the statistical distribution, since to mantain my bodyweight I need at least 2400 kcal per day with a mass of 65 kg (not a big dude). Now, that starts posing problems from the standpoint of adherence. My first choice is fruit & vegetables, so when I should switch to denser food I tend to loose appetite and can only eat modest amounts (the penalty for eating more being stomach burning, excessive bloating and fullness, physical and mental distress). I can adhere to 1 kg-1 d-1 but higher values would demand higher hunger levels. I see this issue from two different perspectives: Hunger is naturally adjusted based on the bodily needs, so my present level of hunger should reflect what I need and I should not try to adjust anything, just following the instinct Hunger is stifled by high fiber and calorically sparse food, so that I cannot hope to gain muscle mass if I do not privilege caloric dense and protein rich vegan food. I wonder if any of you guys came across the same problem (I know Todd has evaluated that but his diet is not vegan). Should I eat proteic food first (legumes, tofu,) and vegetables after, making sure I meet the RDAs for vegans who exercise Should I eat less fruit and vegetables so that the hunger is not so stifled but adopting very micronutrient rich fruit and vegetables Should I add some vegan protein isolates to soymilk so that I reach soon my RDAs and forget about it? Any of the above solutions has its pros and cons. My ratios presently are on the average: 50/40/10 carbs/fats/protein
Read this superb write-up by Michael. Wanted to know where this DRI for the Amino Acids came from? Am I missing something, because I (think) I pulled the cited source and it seems to be about B12 status. Interested in the source of this data: Thanks in advance for any help.
sirtuin posted a topic in CR PracticeI have a BMI ~20 at 5'10" / 140lbs. My body fat percentage is possibly as low as 8%? As far as I can tell with rough tracking on cronometer, my current caloric intake is around 1900-2100kcal -- Right now, I exercise for around 30-45m 3-4x a week, although, I would like to increase this as the weather improves, which will likely require more calories. I like the idea of practicing mild caloric restriction and protein / methionine restriction. However, I would also like to gain some muscle mass, or at least maintain a high level of lean mass. I'm not particularly active, so I wouldn't want to drop activity lower. Is there a way to balance these competing goals of mild CR / protein restriction vs gaining muscle mass / strength & staying physically active (perhaps eating lower protein / calories most days, and higher calories / protein on exercise days?) What sort of protein intake (grams) / caloric intake does the average CR practitioner consume? Gaining muscle mass seems to require eating at a caloric surplus with a high quantity of protein and it seems like eating fewer calories would drop body fat even lower, where I don't have too much to burn there. If I have a low body fat percentage at a 2,000kcal intake, am I already practicing caloric restriction for my activity level?