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Guest FrederickSebastian

800 Calorie Diet: Too Severe?!

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Guest FrederickSebastian

Hi,

 

My name is Frederick Sebastian and I have decided to go on a calorie-restricted diet for the rest of my life starting yesterday, Friday, March 20th 2015... I am now on the Master Cleanse Diet and will be on it until July 20th for a total of 123 days. I am consuming exactly 800 calories every day and hope to lose weight reaching my goal weight of 123 lbs. I would normally be worried about going on a diet so long without food, but I will be taking suppliments and I have seen multiple people online go on total fasts (water only) for anywhere from forty to a hundred and twenty days. Here is a great example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY9_Qviei7g.

 

I am wondering if 800 calories per day is too low for a permanent daily calorie intake? Once I am down to 123 lbs, according to calculators I used online, my caloric intake should be 1450-1650 calories to maintain weight. A 50% CR of that amount would be 725-825 calories per day. A 65% CR would be 500-575 calories per day. This leads me to believe that, once I am down to 123lbs, I could be practicing a 800 calorie per day diet and be living on a 50% CR diet. Am I correct or is this too drastic?

 

I would appreciate anyone's help... Thanks!  :D 

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Hi Sebastion,

 

 

I would appreciate anyone's help... Thanks!

 

 

Firstly, the full intended meaning of CR is not 'calorie restriction' but 'calorie restriction with adequate nutrition' (or words to similar effect). So any diet - especially a monotonous one - is going to put a greater burden on you to evaluate for adequacy and effectiveness.

 

I am wondering if 800 calories per day is too low for a permanent daily calorie intake? Once I am down to 123 lbs, according to calculators I used online, my caloric intake should be 1450-1650 calories to maintain weight. A 50% CR of that amount would be 725-825 calories per day. A 65% CR would be 500-575 calories per day. This leads me to believe that, once I am down to 123lbs, I could be practicing a 800 calorie per day diet and be living on a 50% CR diet. Am I correct or is this too drastic?

This seems to be a misunderstanding. Percent of CR is not a discount of what online calculators (basal metabolic rate? with or without activity?) say you need to maintain a given weight. A variance from those estimates is not your level of CR. Rather, it is your ad-lib rate of calorie consumption as a base (0% CR). So if you normally eat 3000 Calories/day, then 1500/Calories might be 50% CR. But even that might be an incorrect assessment...

 

Also, regarding fasting, water fasting, youtube, etc, is there any animal testing out there showing benefits of the same? Every-other-day fasting is reported on but I would be extremely skeptical of youtube or personal anecdotes.

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Frederick, please see:
http://www.crsociety.org/resources/getting_started

 

CR should be undertaken responsibly in consultation with your physician, other health professionals, etc.

Ideally, blood work should be done and lab values assessed.

 

 

hope to lose weight reaching my goal weight of 123 lbs.

 

Why? Weight loss per se is not necessarily a goal nor an especially reliable metric of anything like "degree of CR."

Although weight loss is an inevitable side effect, it would be prudent to be aware of BMI recommendations.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm

 

 

 

I  have seen multiple people online go on total fasts (water only) for anywhere from forty to a hundred and twenty days. Here is a great example: 
.

 

 

Although this will undoubtedly result in weight loss (again, weight loss is not necessarily a *goal* of CR), there is good reason to believe that it will be harmful to health (improving health is the whole point of CR). A 40-day water fast is totally irresponsible and dangerous in ways that may not be immediately apparent on a youtube video (other than the obvious and alarming weight loss). The mere fact of having seen multiple people doing something (whether they seem to be OK afterward or not) does not by itself provide good reason to engage in that same something. Seeing multiple people shooting up heroin and seeming to be OK afterward doesn't, in and of itself, manifest sufficient cause to shoot heroin yourself.

 

Ask yourself what your goal is. This seems obvious, but introspection may surprise you.

What is your goal, really?

Why? What will you benefit from having achieved this goal?

Having identified your goal, your actions serve as means to an end, not ends in and of themselves. Tailor your actions so that they are, to the best of your knowledge, in service of your goal (rather than inadvertently thwarting your progress).

Edited by Taurus Londono

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Hi Fredrick,

 

Welcome! First, please do me and you and everyone on the Forum a favor: register on the Forums and log in each time before you post! It's fine if you want to use a pseudonym, but registering and logging in will ensure that you can't be impersonated and will make it easier to keep track of your questions, input, and progress.

 

Second: I agree with everything Taurus says, and more: CR is not about weight loss, and moreover, there is evidence from the rodent studies that adult-onset CR may either not work or shorten your life if implemented too suddently. Do not lose more than 2 lb/week unless you're substantially overweight, and not much more if you are. Moreover, you need to be doing bothcardio and especially resistance exercise during weight loss to avoid dangerous bone and muscle loss, and I doubt you can do that on 800 Cal/day. You should start by not cutting your Calories at all, but by just cleaning up your diet — cutting out sugar, saturated fat, and refined grains, cutting back on high-glycemic index/load carbs and (if you eat a typical American diet) protein, eating a lot more vegetables, etc. This will establish a solid foundation from which a sustainable CR practice can follow, and in most people will in itself lead to mild, reasonable weight loss in most people.

 

Unless you're a midget, 800 Cal is in any case going to be too little at any phase in your CR practice. My 5'2" ex-girlfriend used to drop weight like a stone at 1000 Cal/d.

 

Also, you evidently think that you can get away with a low-nutrient diet like Master Cleanse if you just take supplements to make up your micronutrients. This is not correct. You should be endeavoring to get as close as possible to 100% of your IOM RDAs from whole foods, using software like CRON-O-Meter to confirm what you're getting and to adjust your diet accordingly. Supplements should be a last resort for those nutrients you just can't seem to get enough of in your diet.

 

With that complete reorientation of your plan ;) : welcome, congratulations on making a change for the better, and good luck going forward!

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Guest FrederickSebastian

Frederick Sebastian: Well, I promise I will be very careful with the Master Cleanse, and will be on it no longer that 40 days which is the recommended amount of time for the diet as written in "The Master Cleanser Diet" by Stanley Burroughs. Also, I wanted to add that I am not doing CR to lose weight, I'm doing it for longevity... Since weight loss is a common in people following the CR-Diet and I am very overweight: 220lbs and 5'4" tall I would like to lose weight for aesthetic purposes... I feel gross being overweight and I know that people who exercise and diet tend to live longer... I really really want to beat the record for longest life and have wanted to do this for a long time... In order to do this, I would have to live to be around 123 years old... I will do whatever I have to do so that I can live as long as possible... I have found it is better to make the most of every day and feel blessed every day you wake up to another day of life... Thanks everyone for your help and hope I answered properly to what you guys said/questions you had for me...  :D

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Guest Rodney

Hi Frederick:

 

Congratulations on planning to start CR.  I entirely agree with all that has been said already in reply to your request for assistance.

 

I would just like to add a couple of points:

 

A)  Some of the sources you quote for information and which you seem to believe are reliable are, clearly, GROSSLY unreliable.  Hunger strikers - those of them that consume only water - often/usually die at between 55 and 70 days.  Those who talk seriously about 40 to 120 day water-only fasts are not sources I would pay *any* attention to, on *any* subject matter.  They are highly dangerous irresponsible individuals.

   

There are cases where those on *supposed* water-only hunger strikes have survived over 100 days.  However, in at least some of these cases it is known for sure that the 'water' they were fed contained substantial amounts of dissolved nutrients.  They didn't want to die, they just wanted to make a political statement for as long as possible without dying. 

 

So I doubt any true water-only hunger striker would survive anywhere close to 100 days.  I hope this may provide a helpful perspective on the advisability of water-only fasts.

 

B)  In addition, it will be very very difficult to get the full complement of micronutrients from foods on such a low caloric intake.   Caloric restriction (and resulting weight loss) needs to be implemented *gradually* and sustained as long as necessary to get biometric parameters into the ranges seen in healthy CR practitioners.  A body fat percentage (for males only) close to, but not below, 10% might be one good number to aim for in the long term - i.e. over several years.  That percentage should be a lot higher in females.

 

Rodney.

 

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Thanks for your help guys!!! :)

 

I am currently off the Master Cleanse because so many have told me that it is not a good idea. My goal is to be 123lbs and 8% body fat by the end of the year... I feel most comfortable at around 123 lbs and like being under 10% body fat, because, when i am, my ab muscles are visible...

 

One thing I wanted to add: I have been on the mastler cleanse at least 20 times since my early twenties, from anywhere from 10 days to 40 days and really enjoyed the way I felt when I was on the diet. It seemed the less I ate, the more relaxed I felt. Even to this day, if I go a few days restricting my calories, I feel more relaxed. I currently take: Valerian, Kava Kava, Chammomile, and Melatonin to keep me calm (I'm schizophrenic and sometime the voices I hear drive me crazy!!! also, I sometimes go manic and these herbs help to keep me calm)...

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Guest Guest

Hi Frederick:

 

It would be interesting to hear from you again if you perceive that going on CR has any effect on the health conditions you mention in your post of 11 May.

 

Rodney.

 

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Guest amy100

Federick,

 

I am sorry to hear that you may have schizophrenia and the voices are annoying. I also have been diagnosed with that and hear voices from time time. I recently started taking Valerian root again and I feel in a lot of ways it works even better than the anti-psychotic I am on.  Also there is nothing wrong with having a preference to be thin although that should not be your main goal of CR.  Moderation should be considered however I do believe as well and considering what works for your body.  I think fasting is ok, but you should avoid going without protein for to long and if something feels wrong or your health suffers make sure to make changes, remember that the main goal of CR should be health not weight-lose so if something is going to harm your body you want to avoid it in the long run.

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