Michael Rae's Megamuffin 2.0 & 3.0 Recipes

[Dean Pomerleau]

Thanks to the magic of the Internet archive, below is a copy of Michael Rae's version 2.0 of Michael Sherman's original Megamuffin recipe (available here: http://web.archive.org/web/20060417082532/http://recipes.calorierestriction.org/r.view?r=242&_mode=details).

Version 2.0 was posted to April Smith's CR Diary Blog on November 29, 2006, which is available in the Internet Archive here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130501033927/http://www.mprize.org/blogs/archives/2006/11/have_a_megamuff.html

Attached to this post is (supposedly) Version 3.0, with less protein, but all I can find scouring the Internet is a version of it in XML format, which doesn't seem to have easily readable ingredients or instructions, at least as far as I can tell by opening the file using a free online XML viewing tool. Perhaps someone else (Michael?) has a copy of the 3.0 recipe version.


M3 Megamuffins Q3 2010d.xml

Enjoy!

--Dean

--------------------------------
Have A Megamuffin While You Wait

Here's the long awaited re-post of the M2 Megamuffin recipe. This is the version that MR eats and that my friend Susan eats. I eat a smaller, savory version that I'll publish later on. Yes, they take a morning to make. But once you've made them, you freeze them and have 24 muffins ready to eat when you're ready for them.

M2 Megamuffins

Large dry ingredients
2 boxes (454 g/1 lb) Ener-G rice bran
1 C dark rye flour
2 2/3 cup psyllium husk
1 cup wheat bran
3 T sodium-free “baking powder�? (Hain Featherweight)
6 x 20 g scoops Jarrow whey protein powder
2/3 cup brewer's yeast
• 89 g raw almonds
• 100 g almond meal


Blender ingredients
1 T NAC (N-acetylcysteine) powder
0.5 T PURE sucralose + 1/8 tsp PURE Neotame; or, 1 T PURE sucralose
5 T Pumpkin Pie Spice (Unsweetened)
45 mg (elemental) zinc (supplement)
3 whole omega-3 eggs (flax-fed preferred over fish oil or other DHA)


3 cups skim milk
• 300 g endive
• 340 g guava
• 240 g canned unsalted plain pumpkin (not pie mix)
• 200 g whole orange
3 T Reconstituted Z-Trim

Large Pot or Bowl Wet ingredients
24 egg whites (750 mL)
5 T High-Oleic Sunflower or olive oil
• 800 Calories’ dried fruit (Eg, the following together:
• 21 g “Just Cranberries�?
• 28 g “Just Blueberries�?
• 203 g Trader Joe’s organic dried cranberries (610 Calories)

Sprinkle On Top
3/8 T K metabisulfite


Bake for 50 minutes at 325ºF (350ºF in our crummy oven).
.

INSTRUCTIONS

1. Mix together the dry ingredients in a large bowl. Set aside.

2. Put pumpkin pie spice, sucralose, NAC, Reconstituted Z-Trim, and whole eggs in blender. Cram as much of the endive, cut-up oranges and guava, and pumpkin into the thing as you can at a time and blend until very smooth. Sequentially dump into the separate large pot or bowl (NOT the one containing the dry ingredients!).

3. Throw the remaining Large Pot or Bowl Wet ingredients (egg whites, olive oil or HOSO, and dried fruit) into the wet-ingredient Large Pot or Bowl. Mix thoroughly.

4. Pour wet ingredients into the dry ingredients. Mix thoroughly until you have a uniform mixture. This is hard work for about 5 minutes. Make sure there are no dry spots left.

5. Preheat oven 325F.

6. Quickly distribute the now-rising dough evenly into two 10�? x 14�? baking pans. For maximal efficiency and minimal hassle, use baker’s parchment.

7. Sprinkle metabisulfite onto the surface of the muffins.

8. “Tent�? the muffins: use enough tin foil to cover the sides of the pans, cutting a rectangular hole in the center of the foil to expose all but ~1-2�? of the top surface. This minimizes excess browning while allowing for the cooking of the centers.

9. Cook in preheated oven for 50 minutes. If they don’t both fit on one level, swap them top-to-bottom in the oven after 30 minutes since it is always hotter at the top and you want both batches to get the same amount of heat.

12. Remove from oven, invert carefully out of the pan.

13. Using a tape measure, cut into an appropriate number of slices. The analysis assumes 20 muffins, so each pan is cut in half one way and 5 (2.75�?) the other. I currently cut a batch into 24, yielding more muffins and fewer Calories each.

14. Pack in zip-loc freezer bags to retain moisture. Keep refrigerated or frozen. I put them straight into the freezer. IMO, they’re best when frozen and then thawed, rather than fresh.

INGREDIENTS NOTES
* You can substitute other dried fruit, of course. I use a mixture of the readily-available oiled, sugared dried cranberries with 'Just Blueberries' and “Just Cranberries,�? which are available at Whole Foods and elsewhere & as the name implies are dried berries -- period. This REALLY brings the Cal down, and because these things are at full volume, you would likely have a really hard time if you used these exclusively for 800 Calories. I typically use 21 g (75 Cal) of cranberries, 56 g (100 Cal) with the remainder the regular ones.

* Psyllium husk is not entered in DWIDP or the USDA database. I have seen WILDLY variant nutrition info on the web, some of which is patently wrong. Sherm offered an educated guess as to the truth a couple of years back; I finally got authoritative info via the WUSTL nutritionist, who got the following from a nutrition database from the University of Minnesota, and it matches that guess pretty darned closely:

357.24 g of psyllium seed husks = 179 calories, 1.79 g fat, 288.65 g. carbohydrate, 10.36 g. protein, 125 mg sodium, 257.22 g dietary fiber, 204.3 g soluble fiber.

Note that there is considerable brand-to-brand variation in the weight of a given volume of husk, due to how finely it's ground, so double-check this before scooping into the mixing bowl.

* Spices are a matter of personal preference.

* Other non-caloric sweeteners could be used in place of sucralose, but sucralose APPEARS to be the most well-documentedly safe noncaloric sweetener. NB that this is PURE sucralose, not 'Splenda' (which is 'cut' with maltodextrin). Sucralose is available from Warren Taylor < warren.taylor@earthlink.net >, although he is currently cutting it with cellulose: you’ll have to adjust the volume of sucralose you use accordingly, but at least it adds no empty Calories.

* I use eggs from flax-fed hens, to lower AA, cholesterol, and SaFA relative to what the analysis says. Alas, this DOES mean some extra DHA -- my only dietary source.

* I use commercial liquid egg whites rather than hand-separated egg whites -- MUCH less hassle.

* I used to use Ener-G brand sodium-free baking powder, which is loaded with Ca (this contributes over 500 mg of Ca per serving) without adding Na. K-based products are a good second best. This really is a needlessly high amount, which is why I switched to the Hain Featherweight, which is mostly potassium bicarbonate. Do, in any case, chose some low- to zero-sodium version.

* I use baking parchment, after a tip from John Roberts, which REALLY reduces the hassle of extracting the muffins and cleaning up afterward, & avoids any evil gunk you might get off of the sides of the pan. Environmentally rather a poor option, alas :( -- although it can be re-used for many batches.

* The rice bran is probably the most important ingredient for nutrition, although its phytic acid does mean that the mineral bioavailability is reduced. Buy it in sealed containers if possible, to avoid peroxidation of the fats and loss of the tocotrienols. I buy Ener-G rice bran at a local health food store. You can easily get it by mail from their web site http://www.ener-g.comor 1-800-331-5222. Look under "flours" to find the rice bran product and buy the 8 oz (227g) size which costs less than $2!

* For the protein powder, use plain, unflavored, unsweetened stuff, and (to get the best nutritional bennies) use a concentrate rather than an isolate. I use Jarrow's American Whey (Unflavored/Natural), mostly because it meets the above criteria and I get it on the cheap; other reputable brands will do as well. NB that the scoop that comes with this brand is 23 g, whereas I use a 20 g scoop.

* NAC (N-acetylcysteine) powder is available from Carlson, which can be purchased from the Vitamin Shoppe and elsewhere. K metabisulfite is available in home wine-making hobby stores, where they commonly just know it as “sufites.�? Briefly, they reduce the formation of “glycotoxins�? (food AGE; see:

http://lists.calorierestriction.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0108&L=crsociety&P=R5769

… and NAC also reduces formation of acrylamide.

* HOSO: High-oleic sunflower oil. Similar fatty acid profile to olive oil, but with a taste more compatible with a muffin. True, pure, unrefined HOS is quite tasty but I haven’t been able to find it for years: some regular grocery stores carry refined HOSO, and Omega Nutrition makes an unrefined, blended oil mixed w/sesame and coconut oil, making the taste & fatty acid profile a little poorer than the real thing. Spectrum Naturals carries a 'naturally refined' HOSO as well. According to the company, they do the extraction with expeller pressing, the bleaching using a clay and diatomaceous earth filtration system, and then a vaccuum-chamber steam deodorization -- ie, no chemical processes at any step. I'd still rather have the phytosterols and (likely) other missing goodies, but it seems that this is less likely to produce evil & more likely to leave fat-soluble antioxidants intact. Now if only they'd produce it in dark glass ...

* Z-Trim: a fat substitute. See: . Gives the mouth feel with negligible Calories. I use it in vegetarian “gravy,�? stews, and mixed spiced steamed vegetables. Buy the “Corn Fiber Fat Replacement Powder�? (yummy!) at .

Recipe Nutrient Analysis: This is the result of cutting the above recipe into 24 muffins (use a ruler to get equal-sized portions):

===========================================
Nutrition Summary
===========================================

General (42%)
===========================================
Energy | 280.1 kcal 45%
Protein | 19.3 g 41%
Carbs | 34.7 g 63%
Fiber | 12.6 g 42%
Fat | 11.2 g 53%
Water | 110.1 g 7%

P:C:F 28/36/36

Vitamins (50%)
===========================================
Vitamin A | 2114.1 IU 70%
Folate | 72.8 mcg 18%
B1 (Thiamine) | 0.9 mg 77%
B2 (Riboflavin) | 0.9 mg 65%
B3 (Niacin) | 10.1 mg 63%
B5 (Pantothenic Acid)| 5.7 mg 113%
B6 (Pyridoxine) | 1.1 mg 65%
B12 (Cyanocobalamin)| 0.5 mcg 22%
Vitamin C | 40.2 mg 45%
Vitamin D | 14.8 IU 4%
Vitamin E | 5.6 mg 38%
Vitamin K | 34.4 mcg 29%

Minerals (52%)
===========================================
Minerals (50%)
===========================================
Calcium | 239.1 mg 24%
Copper | 0.6 mg 67%
Iron | 3.5 mg 44%
Magnesium | 227.4 mg 54%
Manganese | 3.7 mg 161%
Phosphorus | 531.0 mg 76%
Potassium | 1047.4 mg 22%
Selenium | 32.0 mcg 58%
Sodium | 133.4 mg 10%
Zinc | 4.6 mg 42%

Lipids (14%)
===========================================
Saturated | 1.8 g 9%
Omega-3 | 0.2 g 4%
Omega-6 | 2.8 g 35%
Cholesterol | 27.0 m
P

[Michael R]

Thanks for this, Dean! I was going to post 2.0, and skip right ahead to 4.0 once I figured out a way to get it out of online COM without manual transcription; your solution on 2.0 is more efficient than mine, and good job in tracking down 3.0.
 
The 3.0 .xml file is for the desktop version of CRON-O-Meter, which still works tho' it's not been updated in ages. If anyone wants to get either it or version 4 directly into their online COM, PM me with your email and we can "Friend" each other (tho' this may require a "Gold" (premium, paid) COM account — I'm not sure. If you're a regular COM user, you probably owe Aaron some cash for his long efforts IAC).

[Dean Pomerleau]

Thanks Michael,

 

That was all the information I needed to go a step further. I downloaded the desktop CRON-O-Meter and imported your Megamuffin 3.0 XML recipe file.

 

Here are screenshots of ingredients (for whole recipe), and macronutrient ratio, vitamins, minerals and lipids for one serving (= 1 muffin = 1/24th of recipe, as far as I understand it). It is missing the instructions, but those should be pretty similar (I presume?) to the instructions listed above for version 2.0. 

 

regarding nutrition, the macronutrient ratio for this version is 15/40/45 P/C/F.  Coconut flour. Interesting. No wonder each muffin has a non-trivial amount of saturated fat (2.2g = 8% of calories in one muffin). I also see the Omega6:Omega3 ratio is 16.5:1 - which doesn't seem so good.

 

Maybe 4.0 would be worth seeing?

 

Michael wrote:

> ...skip right ahead to 4.0 once I figured out a way to get it out of online COM without manual transcription;

 

I used screen captures from the desktop CRON-O-Meter. If you want to send me the XML file for Version 4.0, I could do it again if it would be easier for you.

 

--Dean

 

Click each image to enlarge.

 

 

 

 

 

[rmtew]

Thanks Dean, and Michael.  I look forward to seeing 4.0 and the breakdown in cronometer.  I imagine I'll have to make my own variant, as many of these ingredients aren't generally easily available in my country.

[notmuffy]

Did anyone post the version 4 of these awesome muffins? So far I made what I think was v.1, and Dean's pumpkin version. {sorry Dean, I like the original better }

[Dean Pomerleau]

notmuffy,

 

Did anyone post the version 4 of these awesome muffins?

 

Obviously not, or the recipe would be here, by the definition of "post" embedded in your question. Sorry I couldn't resist. It was a good, subtle reminder though. I'd entirely forgot this hanging thread. Apparently another one of Michael's Fermat's Last Theorem statements... Like a busy father who says he'll leave work early to catch his son's next soccer game, but never does. Cat's in the Cradle. Don't be that dad...

 

Michael, my offer still stands.

 

So far I made what I think was v.1, and Dean's pumpkin version. {sorry Dean, I like the original better } 

 

You misunderstood notmuffy. None of the Megamuffin recipes are mine. I just posted several versions of the MM recipe I was able to dig up through a little digital archeology. Sherm and Michael deserve all the credit, at least as far as I know. Don't shoot (or praise) the messenger.

 

But I will say I'm hoping to post a new recipe of my own soon that I think other CR fanatics may love. In fact, like with Megaleather (which was my invention), they may be the only ones who'll love it...

 

There, I've gone and done it, committing myself to something I was wavering about doing. I'm a man of my word, so stay tuned.

 

--Dean

[Michael R]

Sorry for the delay. Despite the reasonable inference, I actually haven't been procrastinating on this: I discovered that I actually did not myself have an accurate copy of the recipe. As some of you know, I have long outsourced my Muffin baking (and no, I'm afraid that my infinitely patient mistress of the oven's flames is not taking new clients at this time), and there was a clear discordance between her numbers and mine, despite having worked out the recipe together. We only just finally got this reconciled a couple of weeks ago.
 
Without further ado:
 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1142622/Nutrition%20Facts_%20Mega%20Muffins%202016%20x28%20revised.htm
 
[Grrr... I hate formatting problems ... If anyone can format this into tables that aren't merely screenshots, please oblige).

A few notes:
 
The grapeseed, ground cloves, and Jamaica allspice, and to a much lesser extent the cinnamon, are all proven inhibitors of glycotoxin/food AGE formation in baked goods, and not just in vitro systems, and they are neither xenobiotics nor to they add cysteine to my diet.
 
Hence, there is actually no NAC or K bisulfite in the current formulation.
 

The  salt is there because Baker Goddess insists that it adds palatability, and it adds so little sodium per serving  that I'm not worried about it (in fact, my diet is so low-sodium that I add salt to things to bring it up close to the RDA several days each week). It's fancy woo-woo Himalayan salt because it's all she buys.

 

The Zinc IS powdered, despite what the recipe says.
 
The only reason for the greens product is because my baker couldn't consistently get curly endive and found shopping for it maddening. If you can find it, substitute isocalorically.
 
I believe that 2 g of sucralose is a placeholder: for the actual sucralose + neotame content, which is IAC much lower than in in either of the previous versions, due to a conscious choice on my part to progressively cut it back, but I don't know quite where it currently sits; I'll get the right number and edit this post when I get it. This is really the only source of artificial sweetener remaining in my diet.
 
And, contrary to the recipe, she/I uses Amazing Grass Green SuperFood Original, not Greens+, which I favor because with the semi-exception of Spirulina, it's composed entirely of foods with which humans have regular experience, not weird herby shit or exotics added for the sake of exoticism.

[Dean Pomerleau]

Thanks Michael!

 

[Grrr... I hate formatting problems ... If anyone can format this into tables that aren't merely screenshots, please oblige).

 

Well, I figure screenshots are better for posterity than nothing, or than a DropBox link... Here is the ingredient list of Michael's revised Megamuffin Recipe (v 4.0):

 

 

And here are the nutrition facts (apparently for the full recipe - divide by 28 to get per-muffin nutrition):

 

[Dean Pomerleau]

Michael,

 

And, contrary to the recipe, she/I uses Amazing Grass Green SuperFood Original, not Greens+, which I favor because with the semi-exception of Spirulina, it's composed entirely of foods with which humans have regular experience, not weird herby shit or exotics added for the sake of exoticism.

 

I too use this Amazing Grass green powder along with two others which appear to me to be similarly real-food based, perhaps even a little better. I add a couple teaspoons of this 3 powder blend to my Vitamix "salad dressing"  - 'cause what the heck, you can never get enough fruits and veggies ☺. The (probably obvious) reason I buy and mix all three together is my belief in maximizing dietary diversity. 

 

Have you considered either of these two products for inclusion in your MM recipe, in addition to or in place of the Amazing Grass product? Swanson Fruit & Vegetable Power or Garden of Life Raw Organic Perfect Food

 

Here are the ingredient labels for all three, starting with your (and my) Amazing Grass:

 

 

Next the Swanson Fruit & Vegetable Power:

 

 

Finally the Garden of Life Raw Organic Perfect Food:

 

 

As you can see, the Amazing Greens doesn't have nearly the variety of F&V of the other two. While the Swanson product isn't organic (if it matters), I actually like it's composition the best, with more F&Vs and less of the "unusual" ingredients like spirulina, chlorella, maca, various grass juices, isolated enzymes etc.

 

All three are pretty comparably priced, and taste about equally "green". To me the Swanson one tastes a bit better than the other two. As I said, I buy all three and blend them.

 

I'd be curious to hear what you think of these alternatives.

 

--Dean

[Michael R]

I should first say that I'm not really a fan of any of these products, frankly, and only agreed to having one in my MegaMuffins as a concession to my extremely indulgent Baker-Goddess, who has suffered much in accommodating my obsessive micromanaging of multiple parameters.

 

That said, I was for a while trying to figure out an inexpensive alternative to Ambronite, which I do occasionally use when on the road, and I tried putting something together using protein powders, almond meal, oat flour, flaxseed, and a green powder. (Failed experiment: grossly nutritionally inadequate). In the process, I looked at all three of these products and chose AG.

 

I rejected GoL for a couple of reasons. First and foremost are suspicions that they aren't competent suppliers. This conclusion arose first when I noted that they have what they sell what they claim to be several all-vegan standalone and combination B12 supplements, when decades of science have consistently found that there are no vegan food sources of B12 (unless,of course, you count foods fortified with synthetic B12).  I had a long go-round with their customer service department over this, in which their first "response" was utterly unresponsive ("The Vitamins and Minerals that are in our Vitamin Code formulas are in a whole-food form made with RAW Food-Created Nutrients. The Vitamin Code B12 is delivered in methylcobalamin form, just like it is in a whole food" etc, ignoring the fact that I was asking exactly about what whole foods it came from and pointing out that scientific sources have concluded that there is no such source), then claiming it was from Saccharomyces cerevisiae (brewer's yeast), and then — after I gave them multiple academic and respectable vegan website sources showing that neither brewer's yeast nor any other yeast species naturally contains or produces vitamin B12 — coming back by claiming that it was produced by the probiotic bacteria in which the yeast was secondarily fermented.

 

This isn't utterly implausible — some bacteria do produce B12 (it's the ultimate source for all B12 in the food chain) — but not at theh concentration they claim (1 mg/cap) from the specific probiotic bacteria they claim to be using produce it, unless it is tertiarily extracted from extensive industrial fermentation, which of course would refute their "whole food" claim and likely their hammering of the cofactors claimed to be present in same. Indeed, most industrially-produced "synthetic" B12 is actually produced by industrial fermentation using high-B12 producers (usually Propionibacterium

shermanii and "the inappropriately named Pseudomonas denitrificans"(1) (cf. also the well-referenced wiki subpage on industrial B12 production)), on cheap feedstocks which could well historically have included brewer's yeast as an industrial byproduct, so this starts to look more and more like regular, industrial B12 production.

 

Finally, they retreated to sending me back their original non-response!

 

There's also the ignorant assertion that "The Vitamin Code B12 is delivered in methylcobalamin form, just like it is in a whole food". In a whole food, you would not get all MeCo, as they seem to be asserting: you'd get a mixture of MeCo and adenosylcobalamin (the other coenzyme form of B12, which dominates inside mitochondria and would likely be more plentiful in most foods), plus some residual cyanocobalamin, hydroxocobalamin, and sulphitocobalamin. Again, this shows their willingness to say things baldly about their products for which they clearly have zero evidence, either from reliable scientific sources or from actually testing their damned product.

 

This interaction tells me that, at minimum, (a) they don't know what they're doing in formulating, (b) they rely on woo-woo health-food-store "wisdom" instead of scientific sources for their information, and © they aren't actually (or properly) testing their products. Armed with that knowledge, I don't want to put anything they produce in my body.

 

They have also repeatedly run afoul of Prop 65 legislation: I'm aware many greens supplements and protein powders also do so due to naturally-occurring levels of one or more heavy metals, often (though not always) at non-worrisome levels granted actual consumption and competing nutrients, but haven't investigated this further in their case since the above issue both makes me not trust anything they would say on the matter and makes the question largely moot for me IAC.

 

Additionally, I find their labels to be non-transparent: you will notice that on all their products they break up the ingredients lists into categories, with no single listing of ingredients in the order that they contribute to the final product. Thus, if ingredient X is #1 or #4 under "Fruit& Veggie Juice Blend", you can't really tell how that stacks up against #1 or #4 under "Juice blend" (and WTF is that, BTW? Do they put it in as juice and then dry the whole product before packaging? Or is it really dehydrated juice when formulated? Or what?). And so on.

 

And, I really don't want there to be enzymes in my products: that just spells a higher GI and more rapid amino flux.

 

I also opted against the Swanson product, tho' I can't remember why at the moment and don't want to re-enter that wormhole without good reason.

 

(PS: Dean, is there any way you can link your imgur images as https instead of http? My browser is set to not load insecure content on otherwise-secure pages, as a security measure to avoid entering sensitive information on an insecure field and to avoid various malware tricks, with the result that they don't render. Fortunately the Forum website will allow me to reload the whole page insecurely by switching the URL to http, but then one cannot post — and, worse, one can fill out the posting field, which can trick one if one forgets making the switch, occasionally (not this time, fortunately) leading to the loss of an erroneously-submitted post)).

 

Reference

Martens JH, Barg H, Warren MJ, Jahn D. Microbial production of vitamin B12. Appl Microbiol Biotechnol. 2002 Mar;58(3):275-85. Epub 2001 Dec 20. doi:10.1007/s00253-001-0902-7. PMID 11935176

[Dean Pomerleau]

Thanks Michael!

 

That said, I was for a while trying to figure out an inexpensive alternative to Ambronite, which I do occasionally use when on the road, and I tried putting something together using protein powders, almond meal, oat flour, flaxseed, and a green powder. (Failed experiment: grossly nutritionally inadequate). In the process, I looked at all three of these products and chose AG.

 

Funny, I was trying to do the same thing a few months ago, and posted about it here. I too pretty much failed, both for taste and nutrition. Why didn't you tell me you'd tried it in your reply to that post? We could have at least commiserated, or saved one or the other some trouble.

 

I rejected GoL for a couple of reasons...

 

You describe some pretty big strikes against Garden of Life (GoL), the maker of one of the green powders I've been using. Your suspicions about them are exactly the reason I try to diversify - that is buying and mixing three green powders rather than trying to pick the one best one, when I don't have the time or resources to deep dive into the details of the suppliers of each. I figure if any one of them is toxic, I'll be eating less of it by combining three together. Thanks for doing the homework for me! I'll drop the GoL after I finish my current jar.

 

One thing you noted as a downside of GoL, namely:

 

Additionally, I find their labels to be non-transparent: you will notice that on all their products they break up the ingredients lists into categories, with no single listing of ingredients in the order that they contribute to the final product.

 

Isn't that also true of your favored green powder, the Amazing Grass? It has all it's ingredients piled into categories, making it difficult to tease out how much of each it contains, or even relative amounts across categories. That was one reasons I liked the Swanson product. Here are the Amazing Grasses and Swanson ingredient lists side by side again:

 

  

 

And, I really don't want there to be enzymes in my products: that just spells a higher GI and more rapid amino flux.

 

Umm... Did you see the label for the Amazing Grasses powder you seem to prefer, on the left above? The bottom sections is labelled "Digestive Enzymes & Active Culture Pre/Probiotic Blend". Are the GoL enzymes worse than the Amazing Grasses ones? Note - the Swanson green powder (right ingredient list above), doesn't contain any enzymes or pro/prebiotics, just fruits, vegetables and a few juice concentrates - that was another reason I favored it.

 

I'm really curious why you rejected the Swanson powder - perhaps because it doesn't contain certified organic ingredients? But I totally understand your reluctance to try to reconstitute (☺) why you rejected the Swanson product - you're a busy person. I'd much prefer you spend whatever time you can spare you might have for these forums replying to any one of the several smoldering posts of mine hanging in the wind right now - particularly on the Will Serious CR... thread and the Hunger Hypothesis thread, with a preference for the former (in case you care...) ☺.

 

If you happen to think of the reason why you rejected Swanson, please let me know.

 

PS: Dean, is there any way you can link your imgur images as https instead of http? ...

 

Michael, I'm genuinely sorry. As you know, I'm not a big stickler for privacy / security... It never occurred to me that people's browsers might be set up to reject http links as potentially insecure. I wish you'd pointed this out earlier, before my 1700th post ☺.

 

Imgur.com supports both http and https. In fact all I (or you) have to do is substitute in the 's' in the URL. I'll endeavor to remember to do it whenever I post images from now on, but will apologize in advance if I forget occasionally. The above Swanson label has just such a http → https substitution. I presume it should show up for you. If not, let me know.

 

Thanks again,

 

--Dean

[Michael R]

Thanks Michael!

 

That said, I was for a while trying to figure out an inexpensive alternative to Ambronite, which I do occasionally use when on the road, and I tried putting something together using protein powders, almond meal, oat flour, flaxseed, and a green powder. (Failed experiment: grossly nutritionally inadequate). In the process, I looked at all three of these products and chose AG.

 

Funny, I was trying to do the same thing a few months ago, and posted about it here. I too pretty much failed, both for taste and nutrition. Why didn't you tell me you'd tried it in your reply to that post? We could have at least commiserated, or saved one or the other some trouble.

 

I'd prefer you keep trying :) .

 

One thing you noted as a downside of GoL, namely:

 

Additionally, I find their labels to be non-transparent: you will notice that on all their products they break up the ingredients lists into categories, with no single listing of ingredients in the order that they contribute to the final product.

 

Isn't that also true of your favored green powder, the Amazing Grass? It has all it's ingredients piled into categories

 

Yes, and I'd prefer that they didn't. This alone isn't a deal-breaker, at least in this case — nothing like the big issue with GoL. Also, FWIW, there are fewer categories, they don't have the problematic "juice" category, and when you look at them  there are some that are less plausibly high-contributing than others.

 

 

And, I really don't want there to be enzymes in my products: that just spells a higher GI and more rapid amino flux.

 

Umm... Did you see the label for the Amazing Grasses powder you seem to prefer, on the left above?

 

(a) again, not something I'd prefer, but not a deal-breaker as with GoL, and (b) the enzymes appear lower down in the ingredients list within the category as both FOS and several probiotics, which suggests that there is a lot less of them.

 

I'm really curious why you rejected the Swanson powder - perhaps because it doesn't contain certified organic ingredients?

No, that's not it.

 

But I totally understand your reluctance to try to reconstitute (☺) why you rejected the Swanson product - you're a busy person. I'd much prefer you spend whatever time you can spare you might have for these forums replying to any one of the several smoldering posts of mine hanging in the wind right now - particularly on the Will Serious CR... thread and the Hunger Hypothesis thread, with a preference for the former (in case you care...) ☺.

Then stop pestering me about other stuff ;) .

 

 

 

PS: Dean, is there any way you can link your imgur images as https instead of http? ...

 

It never occurred to me that people's browsers might be set up to reject http links as potentially insecure. I wish you'd pointed this out earlier, before my 1700th post ☺.

 

Imgur.com supports both http and https. In fact all I (or you) have to do is substitute in the 's' in the URL. ... I presume it should show up for you. If not, let me know

It does; thanks for this bit of attention!

[Dean Pomerleau]

Michael,

 

Dean wrote:  I'd much prefer you spend whatever time you can spare you might have for these forums replying to any one of the several smoldering posts...

Michael's replied: Then stop pestering me about other stuff ;) .

 

Sorry, but in my defense, it was notmuffy who rekindled discussion on this thread. I was happy to let sleeping dogs lie (not that I'm calling you a sleeping dog or anything ☺).

 

But once you brought up Amazing Grasses green powder, which I too consume, I couldn't help myself from asking about it. Thanks again for your thoughts and insights. I won't pester you (here) again...

 

--Dean

[Michael R]

Oh, damn.
 

But once you brought up Amazing Grasses green powder, which I too consume, I couldn't help myself from asking about it. Thanks again for your thoughts and insights. I won't pester you (here) again...
 
--Dean

Dean, please accept my sincere apology on this. I was just thinking, moments ago, that I'd been too flippant on that point and that you might take it more seriously than it was intended. Dean, you know that I greatly value your contributions here, and also that I genuinely regret how little I've been able to engage myself — and it's to your very high-quality content, especially, that I most would like to add input, debate, or ask for clarification. Shit, it's just greedy to keep looking forward to and expecting you to engage, and even ask you questions, and not expect to be asked to reciprocate sometimes.

 

And it's definitely not just the hard-core sciencey stuff that I value either, either, tho' that's generally the stuff that is most obviously impressive and usually requires the most work and thought: we're all here to both be and hang out with fellow geeks, and I value your input and questions on ridiculous topics like optimizing green food powder selections just as I do on existential questions like whether CR will even work in humans or whether we're/I'm actually killing our/myself(ves).

 

I am and should be grateful that you want to know my thoughts and that we share these same obsessions and drives in a world of mindless donut-munchers. Please accept this sincere, humble, and public apology, and please keep engaging on all levels, with me and more generally.

[Dean Pomerleau]

Thanks Michael,

 

And while we're serving up mea culpas. I want to apologize for my many, many flippant remarks aimed your way - plenty of which you probably don't even notice, since I post so much and they may slip past you ☺. I never mean any offense, even when I seem to be questioning your manhood ☺. I value all your contributions here incredibly highly, whenever and wherever you can make them. And I value what you're doing at SENS perhaps even more highly.

 

As for my flippant tone, often aimed your way. I liken these forums to the kind of fierce competitive debating that Tibetan Buddhist monks engage in to refine their reasoning skills and their understanding of Buddhist doctrine. Or maybe an equally good analogy is the bravado expressed by WWF professional wrestlers - designed to get the crowd and their opponent riled up.

 

We too are monks or wrestlers of a sort - engaging each other in good fun, for a good cause.

 

--Dean

[notmuffy]

Well, i certainly am excited to see the recipe! Thanks very much, time to go shopping again.