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sirtuin

Low methionine protein supplements?

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I occasionally find a protein supplement useful on days when I'm not eating much if any meat, and I'm not eating many carbohydrates to add up protein from plants like legumes (high in lectins / protease inhibitors / saponins / phytates / anti-nutrients / etc.)  It can be a convenient ingredient on days when I'm wishing to build or at least maintain muscle mass around aerobic and resistance exercise with minimal prep, and it seems to reduce hunger and post-prandial glucose excursions with slower carbohydrate absorption and a quicker or increased insulin response.  Ideally, whole unprocessed foods would be superior, but I do feel like an occasional protein supplement does have some use for me on a calorie restricted nutrient-dense diet, and I do find them quite tasty and satisfying.

 

That said...

 

In the past, I've used Sun Warrior: Warrior Protein.  It tastes pretty good, it looks quite clean, and the last time I had a box, the label listed 168mg of methionine + 179mg of cysteine in a 17g protein serving, against around 1.5g of lysine and other useful amino acids.  Whey protein by contrast, I believe contains around 380mg of methionine in a similar serving size (with covalent bonded cysteine associated with increased glutathione synthesis and immune-boosting components.)  Today at Whole Foods, I picked up a large box of SunWarrior Warrior protein, and didn't realize until I came home that they've switched up their formula -- the methionine content is now up around 447mg + 460mg cysteine, the lysine content has been cut in half, plus... they've replaced cranberries with Goji Berries (which tend to give me an upset stomach or nausea when I eat them fresh and raw, and seem to be quite moldy and rich in mycotoxins anytime I've tried to buy them dried from the grocery store.)  I'm a little bummed that I didn't noticed there was anything different since I last picked up a box.  There's no mention of a "new improved formula" on the box, although it looks like they dropped the word "Raw" from the labels.

 

So, now I'm curious -- what's a good vegan protein powder that's low in metals / toxins with a nice flavor and amino acid profile?

Edited by sirtuin

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Sirtuin,

 

I don't use protein isolates anymore, so I wasn't going to chime in. But I hate to see a thread with a question lying dormant and unanswered.

 

Have you considered soy protein? It is lower in methionine than most other protein isolates, as indicated in this table: 

 

gly-met-proteins-300x289.png

 

I know some people might be concerned about the phytoestrogens (isoflavones). When I did use to eat protein isolates, I included Mother Soy Essential Soy Protein in my protein mix, because it is low in isoflavones. It is tasteless so you'll need to mix it with something else to make it palatable. But I can't vouch for its metals / toxin content - that was always something I worried about when I used to eat such highly processed protein isolates...

 

--Dean

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I don't use protein isolates anymore, so I wasn't going to chime in. But I hate to see a thread with a question lying dormant and unanswered.

 

Have you considered soy protein? It is lower in methionine than most other protein isolates, as indicated in this table:

Hmmm.. right now, I'm not too opposed to phytoestrogens.  (Although, my opinions tend to flip flop around with changing goals and as I reevaluate trending research articles.)  With regular resistance exercise, a decent Zinc intake, occasional ashwaganda + maca + adaptogens, lots of cruciferous vegetables, a moderate fat intake + intermittent fasting + lots of sunlight + quality sleep, etc, I feel like I have a decent hormonal balance and a decent enough level of testosterone that I'm not overly concerned with potential estrogenic effects.  Women seem to have lower rates of heart disease than men and these phytoestrogens do seem to be somewhat protective in terms of prostate cancer and heart disease in men.

 

Currently, I often have a little bit of freshly ground sesame seed when I do a bit of rice (not too often, lately.)  And, I often throw some freshly-ground whole flax in various foods, which I do eat several times a week in a 4-6g serving size.  These are both pretty high in phytoestrogens.

 

From my Japanese heritage I consume a good amount of organic soy sauce + dark miso, although I don't consume much in the way of tofu or soy milk.  It seems like cultured soy would be the ideal way to consume it to minimize negatives.  I'll have to reinvestigate soy protein. Hmmm!  Thanks for chiming in!

 

Gelatin / Collagen / Beef protein looks interesting from a low methionine + high glycine stance, although I've read that gelatin can increase cholesterol and I might feel a little more confident supplementing plants in a vanilla flavor than highly processed animal bits in a musty "beef hide flavor": http://www.greatlakesgelatin.com/consumer/nutritionalInfo.php

Edited by sirtuin

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Looking on here:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4389/2

 

It looks like soy protein provides 1130mg of methionine in an 80.7g protein serving, which calculates out to ~280mg of methionine per 20g protein.  I might give this one a try, which provides 200mg in a 20g protein serving:  http://www.plantfusion.net/products/organic-plant-protein

 

Although, I'm curious if legume / grain protein would be high in the anti-nutrients associated with consuming legumes / grains.

 

http://thepaleodiet.com/beans-and-legumes-are-they-paleo

http://thepaleodiet.com/quinoa-paleo/

http://thepaleodiet.com/paleo-diet-q-a-sprouted-legumes

 

While I'm not on a Paleo diet per se, the diet does make a decent argument against consuming anti-nutrient / toxin-rich plants.

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Hi!

 

You might try lupini beans -- they're cheap, and they are a complete protein, much lower than meat as a protein source, with virtually no carbs (except for fiber) and very little fat -- so superior to soybeans.  And they taste good, and are filling, due to the fiber content.

 

I like and eat them for snacks -- especially on days when i don't eat fish.

 

  --  Saul

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Hmm, the Lupini beans seem a little sketchy, coming at this from a paleo-ish perspective:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupin_bean#Toxicity

https://munchies.vice.com/en/articles/these-beans-will-dilate-your-pupils

 

because they’re full of bitter toxins, they also have the ability to send you to the emergency room. Being poisonous is not a unique trick — many legumes contain gastric irritants called lectins, and Breaking Bad fans will recall that ricin poison comes from castor beans. But lupini beans, also known as lupins, don’t become digestible and unthreatening with just a quick boil. Even after the many days required to soak them, they never become fully soft, and they still retain a bit of the bitterness that keeps them safe from animals in the wild. They come from a genus of beautiful flowering plants called lupinus, related to the Latin word for “wolf,” allegedly because both lupins and wolves have a habit of killing sheep. How cute.

 

Beef gelatin by contrast seems relatively safe:

http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/beyond-good-and-evil/

Edited by sirtuin

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It did not seem that what you say is really true from what information I found for lupin beans,

 

The USDA data show too much phosphorus, copper and manganese, no fiber and significant carbohydrate contents.

 

The first below paper said:

 

"We concluded that the main reasons for the low nutritional value of sweet lupin seed meal are likely to be related to the chemical structure of the globulin proteins and their adverse effects on growth and nitrogen metabolism, and not to any known antinutritional factor or poor digestibility."

 

The other paper shows plenty of carbohydrates and sugars.

 

 


 

The utilization of lupin (Lupinus angustifolius) and faba bean globulins by rats is poorer than of soybean globulins or lactalbumin but the nutritional value of lupin seed meal is lower only than that of lactalbumin.

Rubio LA, Grant G, Scislowski PW, Brown D, Bardocz S, Pusztai A.

J Nutr. 1995 Aug;125(8):2145-55.

PMID: 7643249 

 

Abstract

 

The effects of dietary sweet lupin (Lupinus angustifolius, Unicrop) seed meal or its insoluble fiber (nonstarch polysaccharides + lignin) on performance, digestibility and nitrogen utilization in growing rats were studied in four experiments. Globulin proteins isolated from lupin, faba bean (Vicia faba L. minor) or soybean (Glycine max) were also incorporated into purified diets as replacements for lactalbumin (control) and the nutritional effects were evaluated. Isocaloric, legume-based diets supplemented with amino acids were used. Final weight gain, gain:feed ratios, nitrogen retention and net protein utilization of the animals fed whole lupin meal-based diets for 10 d were inferior to those of controls. In contrast, adding lupin insoluble fiber to a control diet produced no adverse effects. Ileal starch and apparent nitrogen digestibilities, and fecal digestibility of starch in lupin-fed rats were higher than those of controls, but fecal true nitrogen digestibility was lower. Replacement of lactalbumin with globulin proteins from lupin or faba bean depressed food intake and protein utilization, but only performance was affected by consumption of soybean globulins. Rats consuming lupin or faba bean globulins excreted significantly more nitrogen, particularly as urea through the urine. This did not occur in rats fed soybean globulins. Urea concentration in plasma was higher in rats fed diets containing lupin meal or legume globulins. The concentrations of urea, arginine and ornithine in plasma increased significantly compared with control values after 3 to 9 h of a lupin diet. After 9 h, plasma lysine was also decreased. We concluded that the main reasons for the low nutritional value of sweet lupin seed meal are likely to be related to the chemical structure of the globulin proteins and their adverse effects on growth and nitrogen metabolism, and not to any known antinutritional factor or poor digestibility.

 

 

Evolution of soluble carbohydrates during the development of pea, faba bean and lupin seeds.

Frias J, Vidal-Valverde C, Kozlowska H, Gorecki R, Honke J, Hedley CL.

Z Lebensm Unters Forsch. 1996 Jul;203(1):27-32.

PMID: 8765987


 

Abstract

 

Seeds of pea (Pisum sativum L. cv. Ergo), faba bean (Vicia faba ssp. minor Harz., cv. Tibo) and yellow pea lupin (Lupinus luteus L. cv. Juno) were sampled at different days after flowering (DAF) and their content of soluble carbohydrates was determined. Analysis of samples showed that myo-inositol, fructose, glucose, galactose and sucrose were found in high abundance early in development and their content decreased gradually during maturation. alpha-Galactosides, which includes the content of raffinose, stachyose and verbascose, started to appear later in seed development, at 37 DAF in peas, 40 DAF in faba beans and 45 DAF in lupins. Their accumulation increased considerably during seed growth, and the maximum content was obtained in mature seeds; 3.8% in peas, 4.5% in faba beans and 10.4% in lupins. Results obtained for these sugars during seed development were fitted to modelling curves in order to predict sugar content at different development stages.

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Hi Al!

 

"Sweet Lupin seed meal" is not the bean. Even worse, a mixture of fava and lupin beans is not lupin beans.

 

Also, as noted, the bean has to be denatured. The stuff sold in jars under salt water is fully denatured.

 

Al -- look at the nutritional information that I posted. It is very low in both carbs and fat -- the only such bean.

And almost all of the carbs is in the form of fiber.

 

-- Saul

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Sirtuin,

 

Here is an idea. Why not skip the methionine restriction and go directly to the source of its benefits (increased UCP1 expression in brown adipose tissue) via cold exposure as discussed here?

 

--Dean

Unfortunately, I live in the desert.  In February, we're currently looking at around 81F outside, then it should be around 84F in a couple days.  In a few months, we'll be up well over 100F (eventually so hot that you cannot leave the house and go for a walk during the afternoon without heat stroke risk.)

 

I do take cold showers regularly (primarily to escape the heat and to keep my skin moisturized) and leave a fan on, but it's difficult to avoid being fairly heat-acclimated and somewhat cold-sensitive in this environment.  I tend to get particularly annoyed that my local gym operates around 70-80F (where 50-60F would be nice -- yet, you still see guys in sweaters in there.)  During the winter, I get as much exposure as I can (often with cold extremities from the somewhat low calorie diet + low blood pressure + not being used to the cold.)

 

I've seen those cryochamber setups on YouTube, but it seems a little sketchy.  Perhaps a pinch of Glycine would serve somewhat of a similar benefit for me, along other (similar?) metabolic lines.  The cold-exposure stuff reminds me of Jack Kruse, who has some "out-there" ideas.

Edited by sirtuin

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Sirtuin,

 

Unfortunately, I live in the desert.  In February, we're currently looking at around 81F outside, then it should be around 84F in a couple days.  In a few months, we'll be up well over 100F (eventually so hot that you cannot leave the house and go for a walk during the afternoon without heat stroke risk.)

 

I don't want to hijack this thread with discussions of cold exposure, but instead will point out the possibility of using a cooling vest like those discussed in this post to achieve cold exposure even in warm circumstances.

 

Perhaps a pinch of Glycine would serve somewhat of a similar benefit for me, along other (similar?) metabolic lines.

I've compiled a long list of methods/interventions to promote and activate brown adipose tissue, including methionine restriction. The most up-to-date list as of this moment is at the bottom of the post I pointed to previously. Here it is again. Extra arginine is one dietary alternative, as are spicy pungent foods. Unfortunately none of these alternatives work as cold exposure.

 

--Dean

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I don't want to hijack this thread with discussions of cold exposure, but instead will point out the possibility of using a cooling vest like those discussed in this post to achieve cold exposure even in warm circumstances.

Hijack away -- I find this all very interesting!  To avoid cluttering that thread up with random questions, I'll ask here.  

 

What are your thoughts on cold exposure and cardiovascular / health risks?

 

Cold Exposure Promotes Atherosclerotic Plaque Growth:
 
Cold stress enhances features of atherosclerotic plaque instability:
 
Intermittent and repetitive cold stress increases macrophages, foam cells, intima-media thickness, and neovascularization:
 
Low temperature was associated with greater risk of mortality from cardiovascular disease: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3857249/
 
At temperatures below 20 °C (68 °F), increased risk of death has been observed, and winter deaths reportedly rise at a rate of about 1.4% per degree below 18 °C (64 °F): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5372296.stm
 
Mortality increased to a greater extent with given fall of temperature in regions with warm winters, in populations with cooler homes, and among people who wore fewer clothes and were less active outdoors: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9149695
 
Cold climate is a risk factor for thyroid cancer:
 
Etc.
 
In the summer, I appear much more vascular with warm hands, warm feet, a large network of thick arteries at the surface of my skin, etc.  Yet, in the winter, I get cold hands, cold feet, cold ears, a cold nose, and my vascularity recedes (I otherwise find the cold quite comfortable, haha.)  It's very difficult to draw blood for me in a cold lab.  It seems like circulation is directly impaired here, and that this would not be an ideal stressor?  I've tried various methods to acclimate to the cold and prevent these effects from occuring, but it's fairly automatic for me at a low level unless I dramatically increase calories + protein and aerobic activity to increase thermogenesis (eg. my cold shower post exercise.)
Edited by sirtuin

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Looking more into protein powders: Soy / Cranberry / Pumpkin / Hemp / Pea... it looks like Beef Isolate oddly contains the least amount of methionine -- https://truenutrition.com/proteins-food-powders.aspx

 

I'm leaning toward straight Pea as a tried and true vegan protein, high in lysine, low in methionine.  Although, there's a popular "Vegan Protein Optimizer" blend.  I'm thinking a Pea Isolate might be more processed (oxidized fats?) but lower in potential lectins / anti-nutrients.

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FWIW, I have used truenutrition for my protein powder for many years now (they used to be called trueprotein back in the day), and I have tried their pea protein. Two problems: one - sky high sodium content 450 mg per 30 g of powder (might be a problem or not depending on how much salt there is in the rest of your diet), and two - I can't get it to dissolve in water (or tea etc.) - says "easily mixable", but not in my experience (basically completely impossible).  

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