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CRON program for weight management


deadcat

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I've been doing a Christian Bale-inspired diet that I ended up turning into something very similar to CRON and I was hoping, with some help from you guys, to tweak my diet a bit. I plan to continue this diet for a total of 28 days then transition into a calorie range that's more suitable for me. Before we get any further, here's a bit about myself:

 

DAY: 9

 

Starting weight: 185

Current weight: 172

 

Height: 5'9"

Age: 31

 

 

DAILY DIET: 

Morning ~9am: Coffee w/sugar-free creamer ~15 calories

TOTAL: ~15 calories

Afternoon ~3pm: Gala Apple ~71 calories, Banana ~105 calories, 10 almonds ~ 70 calories

(includes a centrum multivitamin & fish oil pill (10 calories) 20 mins before)

TOTAL: ~260 calories

 

Evening ~7pm: Seasoned chicken breast (oregano lemon pepper, minced garlic, some squeezed lemon) ~250 calories, seasoned/cooked semi-crisp kale (olive oil, minced garlic, pinch of red pepper flakes) ~200 calories

(fish oil pill (10 calories) 20 mins before)

TOTAL: ~460 calories

 

Post-Evening ~7:45pm: 3/4 glass of red wine (Cabernet Sauvignon) ~100 calories 

TOTAL: ~100 calories

 

TOTAL DAILY CALORIES: ~835

 

 

 

I feel great, sometimes a bit hungry sure..  Exercise by taking my dog for a 15-minute walk each morning, push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups, squats, curls. All with body weight resistance or a 15 lbs weight for curls, also go hiking on the weekends. 

 

Any suggestions to improve my diet for the remaining 3 weeks ahead? I want to make sure that although I'm getting quite a bit less calories than normal, that I'm also getting all my nutrition. 

 

 

 

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Deadcat,

 

Welcome to the CR Society Forums!

 

I think the first thing to say is that your heart appears to be in the right place.

 

But having said that, CR as we talk about it around here is not about weight loss, and especially not rapid weight loss, which at 835kcal/day for a 185lb person is what is going to happen.

 

What's your hurry? Why not start now with a healthy, sustainable diet?

 

At a 5'9" 31 year-old and (now) 172 lbs, you're almost exactly where I was 16 years ago when I started CR (actually I was 35) - right at the border of a healthy BMI (25). Nothing to panic about. The recommendation for folks starting CR with long-term health and longevity in mind is to target no more than 1 lb of weight loss per week. Much faster weight loss than that is as likely to be detrimental as beneficial for long-term health. Rapid weight loss puts a lot of stress on the body, releases toxic chemicals into the bloodstream that were formerly (relatively harmlessly) sequestered in fat cells, and makes one more likely to rebound. So once again, what's your hurry? 

 

The other hard-and-fast rule is to run one's diet through nutrition tracking software to make sure you're getting all the nutrients you need for long-term health. We generally recommend using CRON-O-Meter. It is a great tool, and I suspect you'll find you're not covering your nutritional bases with the food you're eating (the multivitamin doesn't count).

 

Once you've run your diet through CRON-O-Meter you'll be able to see what you're lacking and we can help you fill in the gaps. I can suggest now that if by "sugar-free creamer" you mean anything but a small amount of real dairy product, you're gonna want to get rid of it. That stuff is toxic, especially if it is one of those "non-dairy creamers". I personally eschew dairy entirely but that is mostly an ethical choice and the health implications of dairy vs. no dairy are nuances you don't need to be too concerned with to start.

 

Finally, if you are really serious about CR for health & longevity, rather than just feeling and looking better, you should get at least a standard set of bloodwork done now, to assess quantitatively where you are at health-wise, before getting too far into the weight loss phase of CR. You'll regret it later if you don't have good baseline bloodwork. At the very least you should get a standard panel done, including CBC, cholesterol panel, etc.

 

Once again - warm welcome. Let us know if you have any questions, and please post an update when you've run your diet through CRON-O-Meter.

 

--Dean

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Deadcat,

 

Welcome to the CR Society Forums!

 

I think the first thing to say is that your heart appears to be in the right place.

 

But having said that, CR as we talk about it around here is not about weight loss, and especially not rapid weight loss, which at 835kcal/day for a 185lb person is what is going to happen.

 

What's your hurry? Why not start now with a healthy, sustainable diet?

 

At a 5'9" 31 year-old and (now) 172 lbs, you're almost exactly where I was 16 years ago when I started CR (actually I was 35) - right at the border of a healthy BMI (25). Nothing to panic about. The recommendation for folks starting CR with long-term health and longevity in mind is to target no more than 1 lb of weight loss per week. Much faster weight loss than that is as likely to be detrimental as beneficial for long-term health. Rapid weight loss puts a lot of stress on the body, releases toxic chemicals into the bloodstream that were formerly (relatively harmlessly) sequestered in fat cells, and makes one more likely to rebound. So once again, what's your hurry? 

 

The other hard-and-fast rule is to run one's diet through nutrition tracking software to make sure you're getting all the nutrients you need for long-term health. We generally recommend using CRON-O-Meter. It is a great tool, and I suspect you'll find you're not covering your nutritional bases with the food you're eating (the multivitamin doesn't count).

 

Once you've run your diet through CRON-O-Meter you'll be able to see what you're lacking and we can help you fill in the gaps. I can suggest now that if by "sugar-free creamer" you mean anything but a small amount of real dairy product, you're gonna want to get rid of it. That stuff is toxic, especially if it is one of those "non-dairy creamers". I personally eschew dairy entirely but that is mostly an ethical choice and the health implications of dairy vs. no dairy are nuances you don't need to be too concerned with to start.

 

Finally, if you are really serious about CR for health & longevity, rather than just feeling and looking better, you should get at least a standard set of bloodwork done now, to assess quantitatively where you are at health-wise, before getting too far into the weight loss phase of CR. You'll regret it later if you don't have good baseline bloodwork. At the very least you should get a standard panel done, including CBC, cholesterol panel, etc.

 

Once again - warm welcome. Let us know if you have any questions, and please post an update when you've run your diet through CRON-O-Meter.

 

--Dean

 

Thanks Dean, this is exactly what I was hoping to hear. I also expected the criticism for my diet plan, but I'll provide some reasoning:

 

1. Seeing is believing - Once my body changes I'll want it to stay that way, it'll be easier to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

2. Forming a habit - I've always heard if you want to be good at running a mile, practice running 2 miles. I used to eat about 2500-3000 calories a day. After phase 1 of my plan, phase 2 should be a breeze.

3. Testing the waters - I've admired the CRON lifestyle for a long time, I've considered changing to this lifestyle but sort of want to see what it would be like. After reviewing the CRON-O-Meter, I think I may consider permanently working into a CRON diet after all, it sure does help with a lot of the concerns!

 

That being said, I know what type of forum this is and that it's not exactly for what I'm posting about. But I figured I'd have the highest chance of receiving an intelligible answer for my question here lol :P. Thanks again! I'm gonna talk about going CRON w/my GF and see about giving it a try! In the meantime, here are my results from the CRON-O-Meter. Any suggestions to help remove the Vitamin A (sub-Kale?) while maintaining the other areas? I'll be adding more fiber and a calcium supplement to help with the deficit showing. In addition, looks like this thing added more calories than with my other resource, but that's not an issue.

 

CRON_O_Results.png

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Deadcat,

 

Thanks for the clarifications. I still can't recommend the kind of crash diet you're one for healthy weight loss, but I understand your motivation better now.

 

After reviewing the CRON-O-Meter, I think I may consider permanently working into a CRON diet after all, it sure does help with a lot of the concerns!

 

Great! Yes, it does help with a lot of concerns...

 

I'm gonna talk about going CRON w/my GF and see about giving it a try!

 

Your girlfriend might have some reservations. Here is a profile of me after two years of CRON starting exactly where you're at now. I too lost weight too quickly. Read it carefully and feel free to ask questions that it may raise in your mind...

 

--Dean

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Deadcat,

 

Thanks for the clarifications. I still can't recommend the kind of crash diet you're one for healthy weight loss, but I understand your motivation better now.

 

After reviewing the CRON-O-Meter, I think I may consider permanently working into a CRON diet after all, it sure does help with a lot of the concerns!

 

Great! Yes, it does help with a lot of concerns...

 

I'm gonna talk about going CRON w/my GF and see about giving it a try!

 

Your girlfriend might have some reservations. Here is a profile of me after two years of CRON starting exactly where you're at now. I too lost weight too quickly. Read it carefully and feel free to ask questions that it may raise in your mind...

 

--Dean

 

Thanks Dean! Was it you being interviewed in that article? If so, that's pretty cool!! My girlfriend claims to like chubby guys, but I think she's just saying that because I'm chubby right now lol. Plus the main reason for doing this is because I don't want to be another lazy American that's overweight and then dies from diabetes or "heart disease" (aka being too fat). After some tinkering with the CRON-O-Meter, I think I found something more acceptable for my body. As of now it's the 9th day and I feel great, so don't necessarily "feel" like I need any changes, but would like to see I am getting all of my nutrition while cutting my calories so drastically. 

 

I found by cutting the kale to 1/4 cup/day I can avoid too much Vitamin A. Adding 1/2 tsp of Iodized Salt helps with Sodium & Iodine, then switch my multivitamin out for the "Ultra Men's" version + Adding a Calcium/Magneseum supplement, I'm able to see much better figures (on paper).  But as someone mentioned bloodwork would be the ideal way to go about doing this. Here's the modified readout, which I'll be incorporating at least for the remaining 18 days of this phase in my diet. BMR says that I should consume ~1650 calories/day to maintain 155 lbs, I'd like to inch up to that while finding foods that can will replace any supplements I'm currently taking (vitamins, fiber, etc..). Niacin & Trans fat are in the red from the Chicken btw, I'm not overly concerned about this.

 

CRON_O_Results.png

 

You guys have been great so far, thanks! This tool in itself is amazing! Of course, I wouldn't mind getting everything in the green, if you guys have any suggestions ;)

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A ghostly meow to you Deadcat -- although my cat own is far from a dead cat -- more like one cat is a CAT-FESTATION!

 

You won't find much better guidance and mentoring than Dean, but I'll throw in my annoying meows.

 

I'm finding great ease and fascination in theraputic fasting, and the more I research it, the more I like it. The more I fast, the better my body functions. And I put my body through some pretty crazy motion.

 

Dr Jason Fung I like his message a lot: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com

 

Dr Greger obviously: http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/plant-based-diets/

 

And I like the work of the True North folks (Drs Klaper, Goldhamer, et al, listen to their youtubes) down in Santa Rosa and what they're about -- changing lives from fucked up establishment, know-it-all advice. So I very much recommend theraputic fasting, and I can wax endlessly about the virtues of fasting -- short water-only fasts <24hr, mid-duration fasts 2-3 days, and longer fasts. A beautiful practice fasting is ignored by westerners. Few people here like the idea of fasting because we've all been boiling in this pot of water lit by the fires of the food industry ("you'll get malnourished by fasting, Anorexia!, Dangerous!..." nonsense if you're a thoughtful, flexible person...)

 

If you want to lose weight, the idea is don't eat. The idea is controlled feast (eat good food) followed by controlled fasting (research and know your stuff, know how, why, when, where, know your blood chemistry, ur blood sugar, blood pressure, IGF-1, cholesterol levels....) then fast. Start slowly with fasting, it's strong, and ease into a regular practice a smart cat not some crazy ass darting kitten chasing colors.

 

Gorging during refeeding (refeeding is the most important part of fasting) is the hackneyed demon called upon boo to spook you, scare you ("you'll gain more weight by fasting!") so clear out your apartment of all known food industry garbage (boxes, cans, condiments, junk food-like objects, plastic packaging...) But gorging when refeeding post fast isn't nearly as dramatic and dangerous as many stockholders would like us to believe. It's just you and gf, quietly eating some steamed spinach after a few days of giving your body some time out from the food assault.

 

In my opinion (ha), looking at your single day listing, I'd give up the dairy stuff, the chicken (chickens r smart, cool, don't deserve the disgusting treatment, we torture them, kill them with industry greed, and they're probably loaded with, um, toxins haha, a loaded term itself, but poisons, I mean, chickens are poisoned with god knows what, growth hormones, on and on, hey, ever been to an "organic chicken farm" haha, marketing trash, read Marion Nestle's work, and Michael Pollan, good stuff, man..), the wine (unless that's for fun with your sweet lady, it's debatably not a health food, alcohol, ugh, alc in any form, I mean, why not just eat grapes unless you like that numb high, which I respect, been there, but I seriously doubt Cabernet is a health food healthierist more than say beautiful red grapes, muscadines..) and I'd cat-laser your nutrition focus here for awhile:

 

-Leafy greens (obvious right?)

-Wider diversity of vegetables (steamed, raw, wtf, you can get an awesome, easy steamer for like $5 at the thrift store..)

-Legumes of all shapes (quinoa, lentils, black, kidney, white, little red, yes yes yes)

-Nuts, seeds (duh -- skip Brazil nuts I reckon)

-Olive oil (get the best, most of the olive oil biz is fucking fraudulent)

-Some selected grains (purple barley, wild rice, black rice, oat bran, wheat bran, cous cous, millet... so much, junkers demand of me with a straight face hey what do you even eat as a "vegan," and I'm like..)

 

I'd not worry one bit about hyperactive levels of Vitamin A in kale for heaven sakes. Eat more kale, eat more not less, steam it, eat more spinach, steam it, more collards, steamed, more chard, beet greens, mustard greens, buy local, buy organic, support your small farmers who are mostly super cool people, and give the finger to the food industry ...

 

Don't forget mushrooms -- awesome -- just remember to steam them well, don't eat them raw, sources say, haha...

 

All this great food -- mostly Mediteranean Diet-like, vegan-ish -- this is the feast part. The other puzzle piece is the famine part, fasting, and fasting is just as fun and natural and feel-good as the feast part. You'll lose weight, alright, at about a pound per day. But then control thyself with only the best food post fast.

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Argh...

 

That's not quite what I had in mind Deadcat. First off, don't worry about getting too much vitamin A from plant sources - it's only pre-formed vitamin A (retinol) that you really need to worry about getting too much of, while your Centrum has beta-carotene for it's vitamin A source, which isn't as bad in isolation as retinol - although it still sucks to take beta-carotene in isolation from all the other important carotenes and other phytochemicals in whole plant foods.

 

Which brings me to the major hole in your whole approach, which I didn't see before composing my previous post, since you edited the post to which I was responding after I posted my response, by adding your CRON-O-Meter results.

 

The problem is that you're getting the vast majority of your nutrition from supplements - Don't do that! And don't pretend your diet is healthy even if you do chose to use a multivitamin as "backup". You want to get your nutrition from whole (mostly) plant foods! Please go back and read me opening welcome message, where I said (with new emphasis added):

 

We generally recommend using CRON-O-Meter. It is a great tool, and I suspect you'll find you're not covering your nutritional bases with the food you're eating (the multivitamin doesn't count).

 

Now I see Sthira has snuck in a post before this response, and it's a good thing (thanks Sthira!) because he hits many of the points I was about to start typing up. In particular his recommendations for food substitutions are right on point. In addition, I notice in your second CRON-O-Meter post you've switch to eating 6 tablespoons of Metamucil. Don't do that either! Get your fiber from whole plant foods. I sound like a broken record...

 

Bottom line: here is my advice - delete the supplements (including the Metamucil) from your CRON-O-Meter data and see where your nutrition is at without them. Once you see just how nutritionally atrocious your diet actually is, start making the substitutions that Sthira suggests in order to rehabilitate it. Then come back if you're stuck trying to figure it out.

 

Of course you are free to do otherwise, but then you've come to the wrong place for diet advice...

 

--Dean

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Well, looks like you, Deadcat (your name kills me haha) were posting as I was ranting above ha...

 

Your second single day entry I'd nix a few scaries: Metamucil (didn't know what that was had to look it up, oh, ground psyllium which is perfectly healthy I guess unless they've loaded it down with weird shit, who knows, but can't you find a farmers market and get your own psyllium and just grind it in a coffee grinder? By the way, flaxseeds are great in this context and will increase your omega3 levels, and so you can leave the fish oil mess on the store shelves, poor fishies... Fish oil in pills is probably rancid? Slit one open and wipe the contents on your face and kiss the gf! Ha kidding. Don't :-(

 

I'd swap the Bertoli oil with an olive oil with chemistry and integrity. Bertoli, idk, but I don't trust it as actually being olive oil and it's probably some cheap cheaper cheapest possible thing factory produced and given detergent flavoring, you know, like smelly clothes detergent or... We can all start shouting names of our favorite olive oil distributors here, and the funny part is that the really great oils (well, presumably great) often are not much more expensive than that Whole Foods open aisle sitting in broad daylight oxidizing, who knows what it is, $26.99 a bottle with a fancy label... Stop ranting, Sthira...

 

I'd not put into my body neither the chicken nor the red wine for reasons I can go on a long time about, but oye vey...

 

Like Dean says I'd focus less on "multivitamins" and more on getting your nutrition from your food. Plant based foods have zillions of interacting compounds no human will ever understand, but Med Watson AI will! Go Watson! But until then, no. It's not that supplements are evil -- I take a slew of them -- but they should first be targeted at RDA deficiencies, right? Like B12, D... Supplements are often unfairly maligned by stupid people, but they're tools -- unregulated yes -- and like any tool, well, whatever. I'd lose the calcium supplement, too, but that's just me.

 

About the I'm chubby and need to lose weight aspect of your writing, again, give short fasts a look. Fast, then refeed but refeed very mindfully, mindfully meaning not Om meditation (which is great) but mindfully like ok here I am with this bowl of blueberries and that's all I'm gonna eat for the next few hours. Then I'm gonna go hang out in the park with the squirrels and sunshine, all these beautiful trees, and maybe tie up my slack line and do some balancing acts. Or you know just forget about "FOOD" for awhile and focus on the light in her eyes or how it backlights her hair and brings out the warmth and joy in her sweet face....

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