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Thomas G

Total n00b here

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I thought I should properly introduce myself. I've been mostly lurking here, trying to read every single post made in 2016.

 

I'm not sure exactly when I learned about CR but I'm pretty sure it was from the American Scientific Frontiers episode. It appealed to me very much. I think the reason it appealed to me was that it seemed to take real disciple and was not at risk of becoming a "fad." It was an approach that took the scientific results seriously and was trying to find a way to live that would be consistent with those studies. I went out and bought The Longevity Diet and was even more intrigued and excited. But one thing that Delaney and Walford stress repeatedly in that book is that you shouldn't practice CR without a doctors supervision. I didn't have health insurance at the time so I decided to wait. Fast forward to 2016 and I finally have health insurance and am finally ready to start CR. I started CR in what I hoped to be a gradual fashion on Feb 16. I'm sure I'm making a lot of mistakes as I figure this out. It seems like an interesting time as we have a lot more research about CR and what it can do and what it cannot than what existed back when I first got interested. I'm trying to get myself caught up to speed and I'm not sure where I will shake out in terms of a long term plan. Wherever that ends up being I just want it to be intentional and well considered.

 

In terms of getting caught up, if I were to read say five shortish things (studies, blog posts, etc) what five would you recommend? I'm planning on reading the Wisconsin study, the NIA, and Michael's analysis of them here. What else should I add to my dance card?

 

I started CR in what I hoped was a gradual and responsible way on Feb 16. I was concerned about going too fast and indeed I did find it difficult to go as slow as I wanted to but I've gotten better about doing that in the last month. I really didn't think that measuring and weighing and recording everything I eat was something that I'd do, that it wasn't a good fit for the way I'd be able to successfully adopt CR and it would add enough friction to what is already a time consuming process that it would undermine my efforts. But May 1 I decided to try chronometer for a week just to get a sense for what I'm eating. I found I rather enjoyed it and used it for the whole month. I'm still getting the hang of it and I don't think everything I'm entering is perfectly accurate, but I do rather like having a sense for where I stand at the end of the day and whether eating an extra 50g of nuts will round out the day or if I'm in danger of going too fast I have a sense for how much more I should eat. I'm going to keep it up for now.

 

I've primarily been cooking various recipes out of the Anti-Aging Plan and enjoying them very much.

 

I've been very interested to observe the self-reflection going on in these forums. It seems like many of you would like to see some new people get involved. Hopefully I can be one of those people, although my level of knowledge is no where near the rest of yours.

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Welcome (back) Thomas!

 

I too believe it was that segment where Alan Alda interviewing Roy that piqued my interested in CR. I actually got a chance to meet the man (Alan Alda that is) - see video below starting at about 1:40. He's is an extraordinarily kind, funny and curious guy in person, and I'd love to have his (former) job interviewing interesting people about science topics. 

 

As Saul said, it sounds like you are marking a good start, and going about it in a very rational, thoughtful way - exactly as you should. I'm very impressed if you've read (most) every post here in 2016. Even all the cold exposure ones!?

 

In terms of getting caught up, if I were to read say five shortish things (studies, blog posts, etc) what five would you recommend? I'm planning on reading the Wisconsin study, the NIA, and Michael's analysis of them here. What else should I add to my dance card?

 

If you've been keeping up with the posts to these forums, you don't need to read anything more by me or the other active folks here. You must already by well aware of the active debate about whether serious CR will beat out a healthy, obesity-avoiding diet and lifestyle. If not (or if anyone else isn't), I'd definitely check that discussion out, along with associated links. 

 

As for other original source material you might consider reading, here are a couple ideas. The original papers associated with the long-lived Okinawans and Adventists, pointed to in this thread, would help give you perspective on the epidemiological evidence for CR and (or vs. only) a healthy diet & lifestyle. But the best primary source material about the potential effects (positive and negative) of human CR can be found in the studies by Luigi Fontana and colleagues - in which he has poked and prodded several of us from the CR Society over the years. Below is a list of Fontana papers it would be worth reading at least the abstracts of, if not the full text of several of the most important ones, along with one or two of his overview ones about the likelihood CR will work in humans.

 

It is good you've found tracking your diet with CRON-O-Meter helpful and even enjoyable. That is a good sign that you'll be able to stick with the program, although you'll probably find after a while you don't need to track quite so carefully.

 

I've been very interested to observe the self-reflection going on in these forums. It seems like many of you would like to see some new people get involved. Hopefully I can be one of those people, although my level of knowledge is no where near the rest of yours.

 

We certainly are a bunch of navel gazers . Regarding your own contributions - you've already made a good start by sharing your background, doing your homework and lurking for a while to get a feel for the place. It is very refreshing to see a new person who is so knowledgeable and thoughtful.  You'll fit in just fine! BTW, have you got any bloodwork done yet? If you haven't - you should! If you have, please feel welcome to share your results for comment, but don't feel pressured to do so if it makes you uncomfortable.

 

Welcome once again!

 

--Dean

 

 

------

1.    What are the roles of calorie restriction and diet quality in promoting healthy longevity?

Rizza W, Veronese N, Fontana L.

Ageing Res Rev. 2014 Jan;13:38-45. doi: 10.1016/j.arr.2013.11.002. Epub 2013 Nov 27. Review.

PMID: 24291541

Select item 239123042.

Serum from humans on long-term calorie restriction enhances stress resistance in cell culture.

Omodei D, Licastro D, Salvatore F, Crosby SD, Fontana L.

Aging (Albany NY). 2013 Aug;5(8):599-606.

PMID:  23912304
 
Select item 236011343.

Calorie restriction in humans inhibits the PI3K/AKT pathway and induces a younger transcription profile.

Mercken EM, Crosby SD, Lamming DW, JeBailey L, Krzysik-Walker S, Villareal DT, Capri M, Franceschi C, Zhang Y, Becker K, Sabatini DM, de Cabo R, Fontana L.

Aging Cell. 2013 Aug;12(4):645-51. doi: 10.1111/acel.12088. Epub 2013 Jun 5.

PMID: 23601134

 
Select item 239246674.

Will calorie restriction work in humans?

Cava E, Fontana L.

Aging (Albany NY). 2013 Jul;5(7):507-14.

PMID: 23924667

 
Select item 218410205.

Caloric restriction: powerful protection for the aging heart and vasculature.

Weiss EP, Fontana L.

Am J Physiol Heart Circ Physiol. 2011 Oct;301(4):H1205-19. doi: 10.1152/ajpheart.00685.2011. Epub 2011 Aug 12.

PMID: 21841020

Select item 214830326.

Long-term calorie restriction, but not endurance exercise, lowers core body temperature in humans.

Soare A, Cangemi R, Omodei D, Holloszy JO, Fontana L.

Aging (Albany NY). 2011 Apr;3(4):374-9.

PMID: 21483032

 
elect item 209697217.

Reduced bone mineral density is not associated with significantly reduced bone quality in men and women practicing long-term calorie restriction with adequate nutrition.

Villareal DT, Kotyk JJ, Armamento-Villareal RC, Kenguva V, Seaman P, Shahar A, Wald MJ, Kleerekoper M, Fontana L.

Aging Cell. 2011 Feb;10(1):96-102. doi: 10.1111/j.1474-9726.2010.00643.x. Epub 2010 Nov 15.

PMID:   20969721
 
Select item 200960348.

Long-term effects of calorie restriction on serum sex-hormone concentrations in men.

Cangemi R, Friedmann AJ, Holloszy JO, Fontana L.

Aging Cell. 2010 Apr;9(2):236-42. doi: 10.1111/j.1474-9726.2010.00553.x. Epub 2010 Jan 20.

PMID:   20096034   Free PMC Article

Similar articles

Select item 199046289.

Effects of long-term calorie restriction and endurance exercise on glucose tolerance, insulin action, and adipokine production.

Fontana L, Klein S, Holloszy JO.

Age (Dordr). 2010 Mar;32(1):97-108. doi: 10.1007/s11357-009-9118-z. Epub 2009 Nov 11.

PMID: 19904628

 
Select item 2009743310.

Calorie restriction and cancer prevention: metabolic and molecular mechanisms.

Longo VD, Fontana L.

Trends Pharmacol Sci. 2010 Feb;31(2):89-98. doi: 10.1016/j.tips.2009.11.004. Epub 2010 Jan 25. Review.

PMID: 20097433

 
Select item 1926220111.

The scientific basis of caloric restriction leading to longer life.

Fontana L.

Curr Opin Gastroenterol. 2009 Mar;25(2):144-50. doi: 10.1097/MOG.0b013e32831ef1ba. Review.

PMID: 19262201

Select item 1884379312.

Long-term effects of calorie or protein restriction on serum IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 concentration in humans.

Fontana L, Weiss EP, Villareal DT, Klein S, Holloszy JO.

Aging Cell. 2008 Oct;7(5):681-7.

PMID: 18843793

 
Select item 1872981113.

Long-term effects of caloric restriction or exercise on DNA and RNA oxidation levels in white blood cells and urine in humans.

Hofer T, Fontana L, Anton SD, Weiss EP, Villareal D, Malayappan B, Leeuwenburgh C.

Rejuvenation Res. 2008 Aug;11(4):793-9. doi: 10.1089/rej.2008.0712.

PMID:   18729811   Free PMC Article

Similar articles

Select item 1672065514.

Effect of long-term calorie restriction with adequate protein and micronutrients on thyroid hormones.

Fontana L, Klein S, Holloszy JO, Premachandra BN.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Aug;91(8):3232-5. Epub 2006 May 23.

PMID:   16720655

Similar articles

Select item 1509658115.

Long-term calorie restriction is highly effective in reducing the risk for atherosclerosis in humans.

Fontana L, Meyer TE, Klein S, Holloszy JO.

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2004 Apr 27;101(17):6659-63. Epub 2004 Apr 19.

PMID: 15096581

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As one Tom to another, welcome! Others have covered the various scientific papers that might give you an overview and a start, I just have a few observations to offer, and YMMV. 

 

First, your goal should be optimal health, never mind the way you get there. CR may be the path to optimal health. Or it might not. Let the evidence as best as you can see it, and your own body as best as you can feel, be your guides - not someone's "authority" however well-meaning; as the saying goes, "are you going to believe me, or your lying eyes?". It's your eyes every time - everyone is different, and the experience of another may not be applicable to you.

 

Don't rush. Optimal health is a process, not an endpoint. It's a life-long journey, not reaching a point and sitting there. So don't feel any pressure to immediately-right-this-second make drastic choices and final determinations. My diet and lifestyle keep evolving as I learn more; I change my mind and my practices as science marches forward, as my needs evolve, as my experience grows, as my body changes, as new interventions become available - and that will continue to be the case until the day I die. I want to be as healthy as long as possible.

 

About: "I want to be as healthy as long as possible". ALWAYS keep in mind "at what cost". It is easy - especially for certain personalities, which, I feel, CR overwhelmingly attracts - to get so wrapped up in the details of the practice, that you forget that all your efforts to prolong life should not get in the way of actually living life. It is a variant of something that's referred to as an "engineer's disease". It's a particular manifestation of the disease. This variant presents itself in the following way: the family wants to drive to a park to have a picnic, and tell the the father who is an Engineer; he responds that he'll go check if there is enough gas in the car; then he disappears in the garage and when he doesn't emerge after half an hour they go to check on him, and find: he has disassembled the car into all of its parts that he's strewn around the garage and he's examining them. He came to check on the gas, but grew interested in if the gas gauge is accurate, and if it's accurate then are the intakes to the engine fine, and if the intakes are fine, are the controllers fine, and if those are fine... and so on down to elemental particles. And then he wonders if one can't design a better yet engine and so on. The upshot is they never get to the picnic, and he doesn't come in for dinner because he's stuck in the garage doing CAD on a computer designing a new engine part.

 

If your health practices - CR or otherwise - are getting in the way of you wanting to live your life and accomplish your goals in life, it is time to reconsider whether the tiny tweak that might - might - optimize your health by 0.00001% is worth staying in the garage for the rest of your life. It is easy for certain personalities - and I know what I'm speaking of, because I am one - to suddenly realize that years have passed without my noticing that I'm on a detour in the road of life, and instead of having found a 1% shorter route, I have just added 10% of a longer detour. I am warning you of this, because it is particularly easy to fall into this trap when you are just starting out, having just discovered X (which can be whatever, in this case CR), and you have the enthusiasm of someone newly converted. Beware. Keep things in perspective - at all times. Don't forget your priorities - ever.

 

Now, it can happen that in the process of trying to optimize their health practices, some people find their calling in the very science of it all (I suspect that that's what happened to one prominent contributor to the forums here). And their goal changes from going to a picnic to designing car engines - and they're happy in that garage. But be conscious of that choice. It is a choice - make it fully aware, so that you don't wake up one day in the garage and ask "where's dinner?".

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TomB,

 

Extremely sage advice. Quite congruent with what I suggested in my presentation on CR Psychology at the 2003 CR Conference  - keep CR (like everything else) in perspective, and focus on the prize of a well-lived life, not on the process of how to get there.

 

So do I practice what I preach?

 

TomB seems a bit skeptical:

 

Now, it can happen that in the process of trying to optimize their health practices, some people find their calling in the very science of it all (I suspect that that's what happened to one prominent contributor to the forums here). And their goal changes from going to a picnic to designing car engines - and they're happy in that garage. But be conscious of that choice. It is a choice - make it fully aware, so that you don't wake up one day in the garage and ask "where's dinner?".

 

I wonder who you're referring to Tom . In all seriousness, you hit the nail on the head again. Back then (circa 2003) I was a very busy entrepreneur with a young family, and so it was ill-advised for me to get too caught up in the details of the science of CR, health and nutrition. 

 

But now that I'm retired, and my daughter is a senior in high school and quite self-sufficient, I'm blessed to have a lot more time on my hands to follow my passions and my curiosity. Partly that involves researching CR and health-related topics and sharing what I learn, in hopes of helping myself and others to thrive, and live as long and as healthy a life as possible.  

 

Sometimes it feels like I'm cheating. Sort of like all those self-help gurus who preach "follow your bliss", when their bliss turns out to come from helping others to find and follow their own bliss. It's tempting to say to folks like that (e.g. Tony Robbins) "Sure - it's easy for you to tell people to 'follow their bliss', since you're making millions selling this idea to them, and finding fulfillment doing it. But I live in the real world, and need to make compromises and 'settle' in order to make ends meet." In short, their advice is hard to put into practice unless your bliss turns out to come from being a life coach - and even then to make a go of it you've got to be a good life coach.

 

I'm in the rare and fortunate position to be able to spend a lot of time obsessing over the details, and enjoying myself doing it, without having to worry about the money side of things. But I don't recommend others follow my lead in this regard. Rather, I suggest they read what I dig up, think critically about it in the context of their own life, adopt what resonates with them and ignore (or call BS) on the rest, thereby optimizing their lifestyle practices to maximize their health and longevity. That's the hope anyway.

 

--Dean

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Thank you for the welcome and the advice and references. I'll start looking at these studies one by one. I'm sure it will take me a while to get through them but I will eventually.

 

I'm really fascinated by the tread about obesity-avoidance vs. CR. I think the advise to keep things in perspective is right on. If I can just adopt a few big main things that will get me most of the way. Right on to Tom for focusing on optimal health. I'm excited about all the new things people have learned, and the new things we'll discover soon.

 

I want there to be other projects that I can pursue beyond CR, but for right now it's going to take more of my time and energy and hopefully I can dial it back.

 

I did get blood results a couple weeks ago. I'll post them later this week. I feel foolish that it has been so long since I'd had blood work done I forgot that you shouldn't eat anything beforehand. My heart sank when the lab tech asked me if I had eaten anything. I tried to be so careful but this big thing didn't even enter my head. So my numbers might be a little skewed as a result.

 

I'm focusing especially on my blood pressure right now. I've been measuring my blood pressure every day since May 1 and am pleased that it's improved over what it had been before.

 

One thing that I would like to focus on in the future is stress reduction which I haven't ever studied carefully. I have what should be a low-stress life, but I must have a high-stress personality type. Focusing on managing stress would be one of the big areas where I think I could improve.

 

@Dean it's really cool you were featured on American Scientific Frontier and met Alan Alda. It must be difficult to be a celebrity, but I've always thought that Alan Alda is one of the few celebrities who seems genuinely interested in other people and in the world in general. I feel like you could meet him for coffee and have a great conversation rather than just a conversation focused on him.

Edited by Thomas Gokey

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I have been meaning to post my blood work but have not been able to find the time to do so. I had this blood work done on May 19, 2016. I started CR on Feb. 16, 2016 so this is about three months into things. It had been a while since I had been to the doctor and I had forgotten that you are supposed to fast the day they test your blood. I had eaten a smoothie for breakfast and half a salad around noon for lunch. They drew my blood around 2 p.m. When the lab tech asked me if I had eaten anything that day my heart sank. My insurance won't pay for another blood test until 2017. I'll do my best to remember to fast next time.

 

Sorry I've tried entering this three times now trying to make it read as clearly as possible. Hopefully I didn't miss-type something in the process. I've made my result red with the reference range in black. I've put it all in a spreadsheet here.

 

CHOLESTEROL 123 mg/dL 131-200 mg/dL

TRIGLYCERIDES 83 mg/dL <150 mg/dL

D-HDL 58 mg/dL 35-65 mg/dL

LDL 48 mg/dL 0-130 mg/dL

VLDL 17 mg/dL 0-40 mg/dL

HDL/CHOL RATIO 2.1 ratio 1.5-6.7 ratio

 

GLUCOSE 95 mg/dL 74-105 mg/dL

BUN 14 mg/dL 7-25 mg/dL

CREATINE 1.0 mg/dL 0.7-1.5 mg/dL

BUN/CREAT 14.29 ratio 7.00-23.00 ratio

SODIUM 147 mmol/L 135-150 mmol/L

POTASSIUM 5.0 mmol/L 3.5-5.3 mmol/L

CHLORIDE 102 mmol/L 98-107 mmol/L

CO2 29.00 mmol/L 22.00-29.00 mmol/L

CALCIUM 10.3 mg/dL 8.6-10.4 mg/dL

T. PROTEIN 7.3 g/dL 6.3-8.0 g/dL

ALBUMIN 4.9 g/dL 3.9-4.9 g/dL

GLOBULIN 2.4 g/dL 2.0-3.9 g/dL

A/G 2.04 ratio 1.00-2.40 ratio

ALK PHOS 54 IU/L 25-140 IU/L

AST 20 IU/L 13-39 IU/L

ALT 16 IU/L 7-52 IU/L

T. BILIRUBIN 0.8 mg/dL 0.3-1.5 mg/dL

eGFR > 60 mL/min.. >60 mL/min..

 

TSH 1.93 mIU/mL 0.32-5.00 mIU/mL

 

WBC 4.7 10^3/uL 4.0-10.5 10^3/uL

LYMPH # 1.3 10^3/uL 0.6-3.4 10^3/uL

MID # 0.4 10^3/uL

GRAN # 3.0 10^3/uL 2.0-6.9 10^3/uL

RBC 5.30 10^6/uL 4.45-6.00 10^6/uL

HGB 15.1 g/dL 13.0-18.0 g/dL

HCT 45.7 % 38.8-50.0 %

MCV 86.2 fL 78.0-100.0 fL

MCH 28.5 pg 27.0-31.2 pg

MCHC 33.0 g/dL 32.0-36.0 g/dL

RDW 13.4 % 11.6-14.8 %

PLATELETS 190 10^3/uL 142-424 10^3/uL

LYMPH % 28.2 % 10.0-50.0 %

GRAN % 64.1 % 37.0-80.0 %

 

URINALYSIS

COLOR Yellow YELLOW

CLAIRTY Clear CLEAR

GLUCOSE Negative NEGATIVE

BILIRUBIN Negative NEGATIVE

KETONE 1+ NEGATIVE

SPEC.GRAVITY 1.02 1.005-1.025

PH 6.5 5.0-8.0

PROTEIN Negative NEGATIVE

UROBILINOGEN 0.2 EU/dL <=0.2 EU/dL

BLOOD Negative NEGATIVE

LEUKOCYTES Negative NEGATIVE

 

I don't know what all of this means but will start looking them up one by one. Almost everything appears to fall within the range that is usually considered healthy, so that's good. My cholesterol is a little bit lower, which doesn't seem like a bad thing. I'm guessing that the Ketone in my urine is just because I've been losing a little weight. I've been trying to master the art of going slow. It's taking me a while to dial that process in but I think with Cron-o-meter I've been able to level off somewhat. I've got Cron-o-meter set to lose .5 lbs a week and I'm trying to hit the calorie intake it recommends everyday.

 

The only other thing that jumps out at me is that my sodium level seems to be on the higher end of the healthy range.

 

Please let me know if any of you spot something I should be concerned with. Thank you!

Edited by Thomas Gokey

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Hi Thomas!

 

Great to hear from you again, and thanks for sharing your blood work. I wish more people would...

 

Regarding your numbers, your glucose was on the high side, but this is almost certainly because you weren't fasting. No worry there. Just remember next time.

 

Your cholesterol numbers look very good. Your triglycerides look a little higher than I'd expect given your other cholesterol numbers, but it could be a result of the weight loss or the fact that you'd recently eaten, which could have messed with all your cholesterol numbers. BTW, you've got the number right (2.1) but it's CHOL/HDL Ratio rather than HDL/CHOL Ratio.

 

Your white blood cell count (WBC) is on the low side, meaning it's beginning to look CR-like. It's a sign of low systemic inflammation which is a good thing, particularly during the weight loss phase where toxins released from fat might result in elevated inflammation.

 

Your red blood cell count (RDC) is on the high side of normal. I'd expect that to come down as you continue CR. Similarly, I'd expect your very normal MCH & MCV to creep higher as you get further into your practice of CR.

 

I'm surprised the pH of your urine is quite that low. Are you eating your fruits and veggies!? Nothing to worry about though. Nor is your sodium. The human body works really hard to keep serum sodium within the narrow range that is considered normal. 

 

Overall to me you bloodwork looks like it should for someone who has been practicing CR for a relatively short amount of time and is in the weight loss phase. Your cholesterol looks much better than most. Keep it up!

 

I'm not sure if you've seen it yet, but I just posted a detailed analysis of my most recent comprehensive bloodwork and discussed my numbers in the context of what is typical for a CR person. It might be helpful for you to check out.

 

--Dean

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Thanks for the feedback Dean! I've been looking at your results. I don't know what they mean, but I'm impressed with the record keeping and I'm sure I'll appreciate them more the more I learn about what markers to look for.

 

I do have the results of an older lab test on file from 2010. I've added it to my spreadsheet here and tried to play with the formatting so that it is easier to read. I'll keep adding new results as I get them, although the next one will probably be several months from now at the earliest. I did see that a bunch of you ordered a blood test from an online service for a reasonable price, but that still might be more than I want to spend right now, so I'll wait until my insurance will cover it again and then go from there.

 

In 2010 I had been a vegetarian for several years but was eating an otherwise standard diet (cheese pizzas, etc).

 

Comparing the two I don't notice anything too dramatically different. My total cholesterol was higher as were my triglycerides. I had less good cholesterol and more bad cholesterol, but all within the "normal" range. My white blood cell count was a little bit higher in the past but my red blood cell count was exactly the same.

 

I can't figure out how to attach a picture but the paperwork I got from the lab has the cholesterol ratio written as HDL/CHOL. I'm not sure why that is.

 

I'm not sure if this is the right way to look at it, but are there any "goals" that someone starting CR should be looking for with blood work? I certainly am trying to lower my blood pressure and I'm measuring it every day with this blood pressure monitor. It's still high, but moving in the right direction. I've been drinking a half cup of beet juice every day based on Dr. Greger's recommendation and I'm pleased that our CSA has given us two pounds of arugula each week in the first two weeks of the harvest season (up in Alaska, our season is pretty short and is just getting going really).

 

"Goals" is probably the wrong way to frame this. I'm mainly looking at these kinds of things as an index for whether I'm doing this right, making sure I'm not trying to go too fast, etc.

 

Thanks again!

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I want to thank everyone who contributes to this forum. I've been learning a TON, and still have a lot to learn.

 

Yesterday marked one full year of practicing CR for me. I'm not practicing CR to lose weight and I'm monitoring my weight mainly to make sure that I don't lose too much too quickly, but it is still a useful way to measure how much my body has changed in the last year. When I first started CR I weighed 203 lbs. with a BMI of 27.2. This morning I weighed 163.2 lbs with a BMI of 21.8. By this summer I'd like to get my BMI to 20 which would put me at around 150 lbs. and then I want to do some more research to decide if I want to go lower than that or not.

 

The research seems to suggest that you need to stick with a lifestyle for two years in order for it to be likely that you'll keep it long term, so I still want to remain vigilant and focused. I'd like to learn more about exercise and I'd like to fine tune my food prep process and try to optimize for price. Lot's to learn on both of those fronts.

 

But I just want to thank you all again for contributing and letting me read over your shoulders.

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Congrats for sticking to it, I'm sure your biomarkers of health have improved tremendously! There are differing opinions, but I would not recommend going below 21 BMI unless it results in some obvious advantage as manifest in your biomarkers. But that assumes decent muscle mass (which increases BMI), which in turn assumes muscle optimization is useful for longevity (glucose sync, thermogenesis promotion, bone protection, etc). Avoid frailty if you want longevity and don't live in a lab.

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Thanks Mechanism and Gordo.

 

Last year I got blood work done in March. I'd like to arrange for another set of bloodwork this coming March for comparison. I'll post it when I have it.

 

I do want to focus on exercise and muscle tone in the coming year.

 

@Gordo, in a different post (I don't remember which one) you had mentioned not going below 20 BMI. In this one you say 21 BMI. Is there a reason for 21 specifically?

 

I know that the all cause mortality creates a U-shaped curve with benefits topping out around 20 BMI, but I also assume that people with lower BMI may have had eating disorders or other illnesses that were causing the lower BMI and were not doing CR. This is the area of research I want to focus on before I make a decision about going lower than 20.

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I know that the all cause mortality creates a U-shaped curve with benefits topping out around 20 BMI, but I also assume that people with lower BMI may have had eating disorders or other illnesses that were causing the lower BMI and were not doing CR. This is the area of research I want to focus on before I make a decision about going lower than 20.

 

Thomas, people with low BMI caused by conditions/disorders are usually filtered out and cannot take part in those studies. But we can never know....

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@Gordo, in a different post (I don't remember which one) you had mentioned not going below 20 BMI. In this one you say 21 BMI. Is there a reason for 21 specifically?

 

I know that the all cause mortality creates a U-shaped curve with benefits topping out around 20 BMI, but I also assume that people with lower BMI may have had eating disorders or other illnesses that were causing the lower BMI and were not doing CR. This is the area of research I want to focus on before I make a decision about going lower than 20.

 

The 20-22 "optimal" range (with 20+ year followup) comes from here, which is also where the "20" in your quote came from (this is adjusted for those who were ill).  Upon further reflection,  I assume the low end of that range is influenced by the "constitutionally lean" (people with abnormally high BAT activity without specifically trying), since that doesn't apply to most of us, we have to do other things to improve our longevity, which involve slightly higher BMI's (very low BMI's for "normal" BAT folks would be counterproductive and reduce BAT activity, higher muscle mass will increase BAT activity and consequently, longevity).  

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