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Mike, they've just shipped me ten litres of hi-polyphenols Coratina EVOO. It is delicious. After the tanks are empty, maybe I'll have a stab at the lowfat diet!

What about the sex drive, that's a fixation of Dr. Ornish who falls back on the old, elementary appeal of sex.

Anyways, secoiridoids from hi-poly EVOO are far better than viagra! LOL! Mccoy's anecdotal report!! 🤣🤣

 

 👇SECOIRIDOID 👇

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22 hours ago, mikeccolella said:

Dean Ornish  is my age 65. Here he is with his thirty something wife Anne! Sure beats olive oil!!  LOL!!!

Congratulations to Dr. Ornish and his lovely wife! At least he walks succesfully the talk of healthspan and longevity!

At this point, sorry but I can't resist the pun, since erectile function is a recurring theme in his books and talks, maybe he should be rebaptized as Dr. Hornysh.

And is he hornysh by genetics or by a VLF diet? Also, I'm not a specialist but we should treat separately the hormonal component and the circulatory component and maybe other conponents like the psycological one and get busy with possible mechanistic hypotheses.

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https://www.pritikin.com/your-health/healthy-living/eating-right/1103-whats-wrong-with-olive-oil.html

the case here is made against olive oil. Interesting they claim lower HDL is NOT a problem with low fat diets because the HDL works more efficiently so they claim.

 

points they make: many foods have much more plant compounds that are important than olive oil on a colorie basis

olive oil studies basically compare butter etc. to olive oil but not a low fat diet

fat damages arteries beyond the cholesterol, lipids factor see below:

 

“The point here is, we’ve got to look beyond blood lipids. We’ve got to examine exactly what happens to our arteries,” asserts Dr. Jay Kenney, Nutrition Research Specialist at the Pritikin Longevity Centerin Miami, Florida.

As this very important long-term study on monkeys demonstrates, “better” blood lipids do not necessarily lead to better arteries. Though the monkeys on the mono-fat-rich diet had lower LDLs and higher HDLs than the monkeys on the sat-fat-rich diet, they ended up with the same amount of damage to their arteries.

 

And we know that some with high cholesterol never develop heart disease and many with lower do

Edited by mikeccolella

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On 2/25/2019 at 7:02 AM, mikeccolella said:

Hi Mike!

My wife is 14 1/2 years younger than I am -- Ornish has me beat!

 🙂

  --  Saul

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Hi Mike!

Of course, w6's and w3's are EFAs -- but almost everyone consumes adequate w6's.  It's important to get enough w3's, and to have a favorable w3/w6 balance (for most people, the higher this ratio the better).

  --  Saul

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If fats in general were so damaging, the predimed study (an high-healthy fats versus a control of more moderate less healthy fats) would not have exhibited the mortality advantage over the control. We all agree that the control wasn't lowfat, but they were lesser fats, although of the less healthy variety. The lining of arteries should have been irremediably compromised in the high fats groups if Dr. Esselstyn and co. were right.

So, it appears that in high amount healthy fats like EVOO and nuts have an health advantage anyway. Pls correct me if the logic is wrong.

Very lowfat is another ballgame and it has been shown to be a useful tool to reverse the clogging of arteries, at least pratially.

Thats'it, a useful tool in particular conditions. If we want to stick to the scientific literature (which is not infallible anyway).

Edited by mccoy

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Totally wrong McCoy, the so called low fat group was not at all low fat. 37% fat vs about 39%. Absolutely a big lie. 

The study followed 7,447 people with heart disease risks who were randomly assigned to either Mediterranean-style diets or a low-fat diet, but the low-fat diet was not low in fat. Not even close. The people in the “low-fat” group started out with a diet that was 39% fat. They decreased fat intake to 37%.So, the authors weren’t really comparing a Mediterranean diet to a low-fat diet. It’s much more accurate to say they were comparing a Mediterranean diet to a typical American-style diet. And sure enough, a lot of the foods the so-called “low-fat” group was eating were heart-damaging foods like red meat, commercially baked goods full of refined flour and fat, sugary sodas, and low-fat cheeses. (Though called “low-fat,” these cheeses typically get 35 to 60% of their calories from fat

big Fat lie to say a low fat diet was used in this study. Totally False.

Edited by mikeccolella

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13 hours ago, Saul said:

Hi Mike!

Of course, w6's and w3's are EFAs -- but almost everyone consumes adequate w6's.  It's important to get enough w3's, and to have a favorable w3/w6 balance (for most people, the higher this ratio the better).

  --  Saul

Saul we need about 12 grams of omega 6 fats and about a gram or 2 of omega 3 fats a day. That’s about 100 calories of fat. So yes you are correct the ratio is important but my point above was that eating typical amounts of omega six appears to damage our microbiome based on the research into this matter.

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mikeccolella:   ... eating typical amounts of omega six appears to damage our microbiome based on the research into this matter.

 

"The data strongly indicate that the obesity-generating diet develops an inflammatory microenvironment, even in young mice, that amplifies with aging.. " 

        https://www.uab.edu/news/research/item/10236-high-fat-diet-and-age-alter-gut-microbes-and-immune-response-causing-inflamed-state-in-heart-failure

Edited by Sibiriak

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4 hours ago, mikeccolella said:

Saul we need about 12 grams of omega 6 fats and about a gram or 2 of omega 3 fats a day. That’s about 100 calories of fat. So yes you are correct the ratio is important but my point above was that eating typical amounts of omega six appears to damage our microbiome based on the research into this matter.

 

The Impact of Aging, Calorie Restriction and Dietary Fat on Autophagy Markers and Mitochondrial Ultrastructure and Dynamics in Mouse Skeletal Muscle

These results point out lard as a dietary fat that preserves CSA of skeletal muscle with aging in CR mice, which agrees with our previous demonstration that lard also optimized several parameters related to apoptotic signaling in skeletal muscle.

Lard was found superior to soybean and fish oils but they didn't test olive oil.  It is a bit lower in PUFAs than lard so it is possible it would do as well.  Might even do better if the benefits of lard aren't due to its higher percentage of saturated fatty acids.

Edited by Todd Allen

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5 hours ago, mikeccolella said:

big Fat lie to say a low fat diet was used in this study. Totally False.

Mike, if you get back to my post you will see that I was not calling the control study a lowfat diet. Just a moderately low-fat. Also, you didn't provide material for your assertions, but I've been searching for it, it can be found in the supplementary appendix

https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa1800389/suppl_file/nejmoa1800389_appendix.pdf

Of  the reviewed version, 2018, of the Predimed study:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1800389

Now, from the table posted below, it turns out that you are perfectly right. From my elaborations, the Med arm at the end of the study was consuming from 34 to 45.5 g fats per day, whereas the control study was consuming from 31 to 45 grams per day.

So, to speak about the control as a low-fat group seems to be a total scam. I'm surprised that the authors are so cavalier about it. Also, the other parameters are not so different, fiber is about the same, other macros are about the same.

I don't know if others are able to see something differently from what I see, but the only advantage appears to be in the healthyness of the Med diet respect to control, in not-so-healthy individuals (BMI about 30, hypertensive, T2D, high pressure prevalent and so on). A diet which can lower CVD in people at risk, prevalently.

Questionnaires maybe can shed more light into that.

The above being said, I find that this discussion has not yet provided scientific evidence that an healthy, very low fat diet has any advantage over an healthy high-fat diet as a preventional measure, not as a remediation to manage arteries occlusion.

Also, there is the glycemic control issue. A VLF diet must be high  in carbs compared to an isocaloric high fats diet, proteisn remaining the same. Do we have any scientific evidence, with continuos glucometer readings, that T2D patients are all right with an high carb diet with respect to an isocaloric high fats diet? There is a lot of material out there saying that T2D has been reversed by VLF diets, but all those I know provide no numerical data to support their hypothesis. Data as we well know means at least fasting glucose+A1c+ 2-hours postprandial glycemia, as per ADA 2018 guidelines.

 

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Edited by mccoy

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Network Meta-Analysis of Metabolic Effects of Olive-Oil in Humans Shows the Importance of Olive Oil Consumption With Moderate Polyphenol Levels as Part of the Mediterranean Diet

Front Nutr. 2019; 6: 6. Published online 2019 Feb 12. doi: 10.3389/fnut.2019.00006
PMCID: PMC6379345 PMID: 30809527

 

 

Quote

The beneficial role of olive oil consumption is nowadays widely recognized, with the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) approving two health claims regarding olive oil (62). They suggest its use to replace saturated fats to keep normal blood cholesterol levels and protect blood lipids from oxidative stress, with the later effect to be achieved by olive oil polyphenols contained in a daily intake of 20 g of extra-virgin olive oil.

In order to delineate the exact role of olive oil in the above metabolic changes, we have performed a network meta-analysis of 30 human intervention studies. Network meta-analysis evaluates, in addition to the direct effects of each treatment/intervention, the indirect effects resulting from the linear interaction between the network components. For example, the effect of HPOO on glucose levels, shown in the scheme below Supplemental Table 1 is the integrator of its direct effect (line control-HPOO) and the indirect effects (control-LPOO-HPOO and Control-MedDiet-HPOO), while the impact of the MedDiet in the same scheme is its direct effect on glucose (line Control-MedDiet) and the sum of its indirect effects (Control-HPOO-MedDiet and Control-LPOO-MedDiet) (see Salanti et al. (53) and references therein for a thorough description of the Network meta-analysis theory and applications).

Using this approach, we show that the effect of olive oil on glucose and circulating lipids cannot be distinguished from the effect of adherence to a Mediterranean diet pattern, while the only clear-cut effect of a high-polyphenol olive oil is its effect on HDL-cholesterol. In this respect, we confirm our recent findings (63) that olive polyphenols, administered in a functional food and at a dose compatible with the EFSA-suggested dose of olive oil, do not modify the circulating glucose levels, while they ameliorate insulin sensitivity. These results were further corroborated by the reported direct protective effect of polyphenols in the pancreas (64) and the amelioration of insulin secretion through an anti-inflammatory action of oleic acid (65).

The effect of olive oil on circulating lipids has been extensively analyzed, in the context of the Mediterranean diet, taking into consideration their impact on cardiovascular diseases (54, 59) and the direct effect of olive oil is clearly demonstrated in performed meta-analyses (14, 22). In addition, George et al. (21) reported a moderate reduction of CVD risk by high-polyphenol olive oil, including effects on different oxidative parameters, total, HDL- and oxLDL-cholesterol.

However, the authors reported the risk of biases, while the effect of the Mediterranean diet was not accessed. In the PREDIMED (13) and in a recent meta-analysis (13), the effect of HPOO as a protective agent in stroke but not in CVD was reported. Here, we show that the main effect of HPOO is the increase of circulating HDL, while other effects on cardio-metabolic parameters should be attributed to the Mediterranean diet per se.

Additionally, the effect of olive oil on triglycerides might be mainly attributed to the lipid fraction than to microconstituents, as it is the same in high and low polyphenol content. These observed effects may be related to the reported impact of oleic acid and its metabolites, as well as of olive oil polyphenols on different enzymes, signaling molecules and a direct effect on the transcription of different proteins, including lipid-related, -transporting, or -metabolizing enzymes (31, 6673).

Analyzing further the retained studies, we report (in a narrative review rather than through a meta-analysis, in view of the small number of studies) the effect of olive oil, high or not in antioxidant polyphenols, on oxidation and inflammation parameters. This effect of olive oil polyphenols has retained an increased attention, in view of the deleterious effect of oxidized lipids and nucleic acid damage, related to chronic diseases, including cardiovascular diseases and cancer (31, 67, 69, 71, 72, 74, 75).

Analysis of our dataset confirmed the effect of olive oil polyphenols in protecting LDL and nucleic acid oxidation, in accordance to previous meta-analysis (76). However, an unexpected result reported here is that a much lower than the previously reported concentration of olive oil polyphenols is required to induce this protection (~60 mg/L of olive oil). This finding is in contradiction to the current belief that markers of oxidation (such as oxLDL and nucleic acid oxidation) are inversely related to the polyphenol content of olive oil, while the plasma antioxidant activity is directly related to it...

*    *    *    *    *

[...]The novel element of the present meta-analysis consists of the estimation of LPOO and HPOO effects on cardio-metabolic parameters through a network analysis, estimating both their direct and indirect effects. Our data suggest that the major effect on these parameters is mediated through an adherence to the Mediterranean diet, while the only notable effect of olive oil polyphenols is the increase of HDL-cholesterol and the amelioration of the antioxidant and inflammatory status of the subjects. This effect is more pronounced in subjects with an established metabolic syndrome or other chronic conditions/diseases, evidencing its beneficial health effects. In addition, we report that much lower antioxidant polyphenols may be sufficient for the beneficial effects of olive oil, while we show that the lipid fraction of olive oil may be responsible for some of its beneficial actions. These conclusions, if verified in further prospective trials, may be of value in re-establishing the role of olive oil in human nutrition.

 

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I'm reading from Ornish lifetyle nutrition website. 4 grams of healthy fats a day, three single walnuts per day , or 15 almonds or...   😢 ...But that's his reversal program.

In the 2008 book I read, he says that healthy people do not need to be very strict on his reccomendations. I would need to be pretty scared before starting such a lowfat regimen.

4 Grams a Day of Good Fat

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No more than 10% of calories are from fat. This is achieved by not adding any fats, oils, avocados, coconut and olives to a mostly plant-based diet. The 10% of calories from fat comes from fat that occurs naturally in grains, vegetables, fruit, beans, legumes, soy foods — and small amounts of nuts & seeds.

Limit cholesterol to 10 milligrams or less per day. To meet this goal, non-fat dairy products are optional and limited to 2 servings per day. Non-fat dairy products are optional. Non-dairy alternatives are encouraged, such as soy milk, as they are cholesterol-free and rich in heart-healthy nutrients.

Nuts are allowed in small amounts. To maintain the low-fat goal of 10 % of calories from fat, servings sizes for nuts are limited since they are very concentrated in fat. An example of some servings for nuts are listed below. The type of fat in nuts is mostly unsaturated with some nuts such as walnuts providing a good sources of heart-healthy omega 3s. Specific nuts(almonds, pistachios, walnuts, pecans, cashews, and peanuts) and seeds (especially flaxseeds, sunflower, and pumpkins seeds) that are rich in antioxidants and cardio-protective phytochemicals such as polyphenols were selected based on research for their cardiovascular health benefits.

Example: 1 low-fat food serving (≤ 3 gm fat) equals:

  • 5 almonds
  • 9 pistachios
  • 1 whole walnut
  • 3 pecan halves
  • 2 cashews
  • 6 peanuts (no shell)
  • 2.5 tsp flax seeds, ground
  • 2 tsp chia seeds or sunflower seeds, shelled
  • 1.5 tsp pumpkin seeds

Three or less servings from low-fat foods or nuts can be included per day. Low-fat foods such as packaged foods like veggie burgers, low fat whole-grain crackers or cereals that contain ≤ 3 gm fat per serving. These low-fat foods may contain a minimum amount of added mostly unsaturated fat such as olive or canola oil.  Low fat packaged foods are not encouraged, but are optional on occasion for convenience, and to maintain an enjoyable sustainable lifestyle.

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On 2/25/2019 at 4:02 AM, mikeccolella said:

[PICTURE]

Dean Ornish  is my age 65. Here he is with his thirty something wife Anne! Sure beats olive oil!!  LOL!!!

Yep! And then look at Trump! Must be the diet! Or their hot looks. Or the dye job. Or, maybe (and most likely) something else.... The pic and whatever it's trying to prove just begs a response. It really, really did not need the "thirty something wife." (For the record, I don't disagree with Ornish diet and I believe it has sound basis (not just one study, as evil tongues and the meat industry claim).

As to olive oil, it's a minimally processed fat. It's beneficial when used instead of something like lard, or vegetable oils. But not in addition to, or excessively (as in over 20% of daily caloric intake, max).

Here is a different take on the PREDIMED:

"All three dietary groups had almost equal facility promoting the growth and clinical appearance of cardiovascular disease which manifested itself as strokes, heart attack and death in those who at study onset did not have this illness.
 
This Spanish study which clearly worsens cardiovascular disease, is not alone as earlier this month the British Medical Journal updated the randomized Sydney Heart Study, confirming that the addition of oils worsened the outlook for cardiovascular disease.
 
By way of contrast, our small plant based nutrition study took patients with established advanced cardiovascular disease and not only halted disease progression but was able to demonstrate disease reversal. ..." http://dresselstyn.com/spanish_study.htm

Edited by Ron Put

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My main concern with Dr Esseltsyn and similarly-minded colleaugues is that they display some degree of fanaticism, that is, bias caused by too much of a subjective view.

I listened to some podcasts from Dr. Esseltsyn. when asked how many oils we may eat safely (healthy subjects), he retorted: "it's like asking how close to the cliff we can safely walk' (or something similar).

Now, comparing even healthy oil consumption to dangerously walk on the brink of a precipice, well, I don't associate that with perfectly balanced and objective views.

Dr. Ornish is better off at that, clearly saying that the most rigorous regimen, with about 10% fats, is suggested as a 'pound of cure' to those who already have some health problems and that healthy subject may safely deviate from this strict regimen.

How many people have been eating lots of healthy fats without any hint of a CV disease? We have no answer to that, as we have no answer to the question if eating lots of healthy fats in healthy subjects is better  longevity-wise as compared to eating very few fats in likewise healthy subjects.

Of course the work carried out by Dr. esseltsyn and dr. ornish  in reversing arterial occlusions is priceless, whereas extrapolating those resultse to healthy subjects is very much arguable.

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55 minutes ago, mccoy said:

My main concern with Dr Esseltsyn and similarly-minded colleaugues is that they display some degree of fanaticism, that is, bias caused by too much of a subjective view.

I listened to some podcasts from Dr. Esseltsyn. when asked how many oils we may eat safely (healthy subjects), he retorted: "it's like asking how close to the cliff we can safely walk' (or something similar).

Now, comparing even healthy oil consumption to dangerously walk on the brink of a precipice, well, I don't associate that with perfectly balanced and objective views.

Dr. Ornish is better off at that, clearly saying that the most rigorous regimen, with about 10% fats, is suggested as a 'pound of cure' to those who already have some health problems and that healthy subject may safely deviate from this strict regimen.

How many people have been eating lots of healthy fats without any hint of a CV disease? We have no answer to that, as we have no answer to the question if eating lots of healthy fats in healthy subjects is better  longevity-wise as compared to eating very few fats in likewise healthy subjects.

Of course the work carried out by Dr. esseltsyn and dr. ornish  in reversing arterial occlusions is priceless, whereas extrapolating those resultse to healthy subjects is very much arguable.

It is interesting when you look on pubmed for olive oil studies. In most of the literature, something like wild salmon with watercress and high-polyphenol olive oil looks every bit as much of a health-promoting food as say, a big bowl of brown rice with tofu and oat milk like Esselstyn might recommend. It certainly does not come off as any sort of cardio-hazard.

The amount of new medical data being published is astounding -- these guys went to school so long ago, I wonder if they may have reached entirely different opinions in this current environment. Imagine trying to explain to a 1950's Esselstyn how to perform a basic CatBoost decision tree analysis or run a deep learning model on a heart disease dataset to collaborate with thousands of experts across the planet on the regression problem... when these guys were learning their craft, our technical prowess as a society was at about GameBoy-level (or, I suppose 20 prior to the advance to Pong-level data research skills in Esselstyn's case.)

Here's one new article just from 3 weeks ago that will conduct a double-blind randomized cross-over trial with healthy adults. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30997730 In an article published this month, grains were seen to be a negative cardio risk factor of the Mediterranean diet, while the oil was seen as protective. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30946700 Or, in this preliminary data from the AUSMED Heart Trial, the olive oil-rich diet seemed to outperform the Low-Fat Diet Intervention. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900718306853

 

Edited by sirtuin

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Mccoy:  Of course the work carried out by Dr. esseltsyn and dr. ornish  in reversing arterial occlusions is priceless...

Michael Rae has a slightly less positive evaluation of their published reports:
 

Quote

On Esselsyn/Ornish/Pritikin/McDougall: the studies purported to support the ultra-low-fat approach are not worth the paper on which they're written (to the extent that anyone keeps hardcopies any more).

Esselsyn's and Ornish's  reports are in very small numbers of intensely-managed patients with existing CVD; neither of them have reported any actual improvement in survivorship; and there are major confounders for both. Esselstyn is reporting a case series from his personal practice, and not (as is often claimed) a clinical trial: there was no control group, and moreover ALL of his subjects were on cholesterol-lowering drugs.(3) The benefits reported for Ornish's program are not demonstrably related to the diet, let alone demonstrably better than a diet higher in quality fat: his intervention not only included lower saturated fat intake (which is of course achievable with a diet high in mono- and polyunsaturated fats), but also a "vegetarian diet, aerobic exercise, stress management training, smoking cessation, group psychosocial support" (4), none of which were administered to the controls.

https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11161-macro-nutrient-ratios/?tab=comments#comment-12429

Edited by Sibiriak

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Sibiriak, Thanks for reposting MR's comment.

I should then correct myself and say that Esseltsyn't and co. studies are anecdotally priceless. One of the factors which reverted arterial occlusions might have been ultra-low fat diet but other factors in the Ornish' spectrum scheme like stress-management, exercise, smoking cessations are surely of no little import. 

Of course, my n=1 case is also anecdotally correct, in that I've been eating all my life high amounts of high quality fat, saturated and mono/polinsaturated, and until now I'm showing no symptoms of arterial occlusions. But I'll have to have some exams done before I can speak authoritatively.

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10 hours ago, mccoy said:

... How many people have been eating lots of healthy fats without any hint of a CV disease? We have no answer to that, as we have no answer to the question if eating lots of healthy fats in healthy subjects is better  longevity-wise as compared to eating very few fats in likewise healthy subjects....

We kind of do. The Okinawan diet is perhaps the best studied in the context of "Blue Zones" and they consume no olive oil. In fact, their traditional fat consumption is something like 6% of calories. Similarly, the Sardinians did not consume as much olive oil traditionally, as they do nowadays (56% up): https://ucdintegrativemedicine.com/2017/05/sardinia-centenarian-secrets/#gs.bcr052

I am not saying that substituting olive oil for vegetable oils or animal-derived fat is bad idea, but just adding olive oil and thinking it will miraculously protect you is not really supported by much evidence I have seen. For example:

"...any oil—including olive oil—is not a whole food and thus has little place in a whole food, plant-based diet. Like any other oil, olive oil is a processed, concentrated fat extract and thus has lost most of the nutritional value of its original form (the olive itself). If you want some nutritional value, you will find it by eating the whole olive—not by consuming it in its almost unrecognizable extracted oil form.


To evaluate whether or not olive oil is indeed ‘heart-healthy’, we first need to understand a few facts about vascular biology. The vessels in our entire cardiovascular system are lined with highly functional endothelial cells. These cells provide a barrier between the blood and the rest of the body tissues and are involved in blood clotting, the formation of new blood vessels, and recruitment of immune defense cells.
 Endothelial cells also produce nitric oxide (NO), which makes blood vessels dilate to increase blood flow and prevent platelets from sticking to the vessel walls. Impaired endothelial function is a hallmark of vascular disease, considered an early event in the development of atherosclerosis, and seen in patients with high blood pressure, high cholesterol, coronary artery disease and type 2 diabetes. A noninvasive method to test endothelial function is Flow Mediated Dilation (FMD), which uses an ultrasound to measure flow-mediated changes in the diameter of the brachial artery. Healthy endothelial cells will respond to a stimulus by releasing NO and causing the brachial artery to dilate, while unhealthy cells will not. In other words, the level of dilation (or lack of), measured via ultrasound, is a good indication of the overall health of the vessels in the cardiovascular system.

...
Not surprising, significant FMD impairment can be seen after someone smokes or eats a lot of fat, sugar and/or salt in a meal. FMD impairment is also detected when someone suffers from mental stress or a chronic disease like high cholesterol or diabetes.

So what is the effect of olive oil on FMD?
All oils, both animal and plant derived, tend to worsen endothelial function. Within hours of ingesting fat, arteries stiffen and the ability to dilate is impaired.

A 1999 study measuring FMD after the ingestion of high-fat meals reported a “3-hour decline in FMD after subjects ingested a traditional meal of a hamburger and fries or cheesecake. Olive oil was found to have the same impairment to endothelial function as the rest of these high-fat meals.”

And a 2007 study showed a similar detrimental effect on endothelial function after the intake of olive, soybean and palm oils.

Is Extra Virgin Olive Oil a Healthier Choice?
In a cohort study designed to measure the effects of a Mediterranean diet as the primary prevention of cardiovascular disease, extra virgin olive oil (EVOO) was shown to be better than regular olive oil, but neither significantly reduced heart attack rates.

Other studies report similar findings, showing that EVOO damages endothelial function—just like its ‘regular’ olive oil counterpart.

In the PREDIMED study, 7447 people at high risk for cardiovascular disease were randomly placed into 3 groups. One group was told to eat a Mediterranean diet using only EVOO (up to 1 liter per week!). The second group ate a Mediterranean diet and added half-pound of nuts per week. The third group was told to reduce fat intake (but it didn’t).

After five years, the conclusions were stunning; there were nearly no differences between groups. No differences in weight, waist circumference, systolic and diastolic blood pressure, fasting glucose, or lipid profile.

And no difference in the number of heart attacks or deaths from cardiovascular disease; those in the EVOO group suffered just as many heart attacks and cardiovascular disease as those in the control group (there was a significant reduction in the number of strokes, but that reduction was greater in the group that ate nuts). ..."
Edited by Ron Put

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Here's a recent study comparing an olive oil rich diet vs a low-fat diet, specifically looking at flow mediated dilation with a dose-dependent improvement:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4586551/figure/nutrients-07-05356-f005/

Here's another looking at a low-fat diet vs the oil-inclusive diet: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19632695

To contrast, here's the % change in FMD in 3 types of carbohydrates with a dose-dependent worsening: http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/53/24/2283/F3

I'm not here to make the argument that olive oil inclusive diets may improve FMD over whole food based low-fat diets, but the data can swing either way you want to swing it.

I think it's worth mentioning that olive oil is largely used as a way to sustain life on a higher consumption of lower-calorie (higher polyphenol / micronutrient) vegetable matter than might otherwise be possible in place of sugars and starches. It's not like it's just being consumed in isolation. While examining the mechanics of a cold press manufacturing process, it feels to me like it's less extreme than say, making tofu or any sort of soy-based milk product. If you're having an arugula salad with beetroot and olive oil with 100% cacao and green tea after a dip in the sauna, how bad is endothelial function going to look compared to say, consuming a high-glycemic bowl of rice?

How tofu is made:

How olive oil is made:

It's debatable to me whether an unbiased look at olive oil would see the plant's traditionally-consumed polyphenol-rich oil fraction as standing closer to the health food spectrum's bottom end of deleterious processed foods, or something more akin to a superfood extract on top. Arguing for supreme whole olive fruit superiority over earlier harvested olive oil isn't too unlike arguing against brewed stone-ground matcha green tea as some hypothetically harmful man-made toxin while placing the green leaf itself from which it's extracted in a different light - it's bordering on an unnecessary level of theoretical dietary optimization in the context of modern peer-reviewed scientific journal research. In many of these studies, the olive oil inclusive foods like basil-rich neon-green pesto look at least as heart-healthy as say, a baked potato. It's further debatable to me whether or not it would be more nutritious to trade some of that raw basil leaf infused-oil with fresh-squeezed lemon juice and raw garlic for a more oxidized, more mature chunk of just... well, olive, or a handful of say, oat. It is my suspicion that the foods the oil becomes incorporated within do often produce healthier, better tasting meal options than might be achieved through the lone individual components.

Edited by sirtuin

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Ron, if we want to speak anecdotally, remaining in a blue zones context, the Lom aLinda Adventists AFAIK do not follow a low fat diet and Sardinians used to eat fair amounts of their own  sheep cheese (really pastured grass-fed). Please note that pecorino cheese is sheep cheese, not goat cheese.  from one link you posted:

Quote

Eat a Mostly Plant-Based Diet: The traditional Sardinian diet is made up of whole-grain bread, garden vegetables, fruits, and beans. As shepherds, they also consume pecorino (goat) cheese.  Meat is reserved for Sundays or special occasions.

Goats were traditionally reserved to produce milk for infants, but you might have found some goat herding, although I have no specific data, I'm basing my points on the shepherding traditions I know. Sheep cheese is typically 25 to 30% fat in weight. So the  ultracentenarians in Sardinia did consume a fair amount of saturated fats, whereas I agree that olives were not typically grown in that area.

Besides, in Italy there are other less well known blue zones, like Molochio (cited by Valter Longo) and Acciaroli (studied by the San Diego School of Medicine) where EVOO was typically produced consumed in relatively high amounts. The Acciarioli people seem to exhibit a FOXO3 polymorphism which may be the real reason of their excellet lifespan.

As a matter of fact, my strong suspicion is that  many of these blue zone populations unarguably display strong inbreeding (islands and isolated areas) and that a genetic variant which overactivates longevity pathways like FOXO3 is well preserved for such a reason . This in my ignorance of genetics. When extreme lifespan is pronounced, diet has probably little to do with that, whereas a statistically very unlikely random combination of protective genes is expressed.

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Edited by mccoy

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2 minutes ago, mikeccolella said:

Low fat? Didn’t see that defined. Could you  help us out on that please?

That's another issue, the definition as we've seen in the PREDIMED study may not reflect at all the actual fat consumption.

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