Olive oil? Healthy or not?!

[Mike41]

20 minutes ago, Sibiriak said:

 

Mike,  don't put a spoon of polyphenol rich, endothelial-protective EVOO on your salad.   It might give you a heart attack.

Seriously,  don't do it!!

Ha Ha. But seriously have you ever compared EVOO with other foods for polyphenol/calorie??? It’s a joke! Try it sometime!

And it is anything but endothelial protective only when compared to a standard diet! Shredded paper would be endothelial protective in that comparison. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Mike41

[Clinton]

Sorry if this was already discussed -

but I was wondering how does eating a couple of olives compare (polyphenol-wise) to the calorie-equivalent of evoo??

I assume that the 'meat' of the olive would contain significant amounts of the healthy/desired polyphenols??

 

[Mike41]

[Clinton]

Mike,

Your link above is not functioning,

Clinton

[Mike41]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Polyphenol-and-antioxidant-content-in-the-100-richest-foods-mg-per-100-g-or-mg-per-100_tbl1_47661728

 

 

[Mike41]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Polyphenol-and-antioxidant-content-in-the-100-richest-foods-mg-per-100-g-or-mg-per-100_tbl1_47661728

just keep in mind when you make the comparison for polyphenol rich endothelial protective EVOO that you compare based on calories. 100 grams of endothelial protective EVOO!!! Has around 700 Calories! And even when you dont do that it’s not at all impressive. And when you do compare calorie per calorie it’s a total disaster for any diet and yes there are numerous studies using imaging and other reliable measurements that all high fat meals including EVOO cause endothelial dysfunction when compared to very low fat and or a fasting state. That is very old news.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Mike41

[Clinton]

Yeah Mike, I'm with you on this one.

If a person is interested in a fat source with a salad/veggie meal to aid absorption of fat-soluble nutrients (Vitamin A's, E's and K's, etc.) walnuts, almonds, avocado, pieces of olive provide higher polyphenol density, fiber and other nutrients compared to any oil, even if it does contain some diluted polyphenols such as evoo ... (which requires judicious selection/sourcing, storage considerations, etc..) ... 

When it comes to evoo ... is the 'juice worth the squeeze'??  not for me.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Clinton

[Sibiriak]

15 minutes ago, Clinton said:

I assume that the 'meat' of the olive would contain significant amounts of the healthy/desired polyphenols??

The thing is,  an olive is  around 85- 88% fat, the rest is mostly fiber,  with a little protein.

The downside of whole olives  is the very high salt content usually encountered.

[Sibiriak]

Mike,  clearly you have an unhealthy relationship with olive oil.  My personal advice would be to make a clean break.  Just walk away.

And don't look back.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Sibiriak

[Mike41]

I agree Whole Foods make more sense so yeah nuts, avocodos etc. But even these I go easy with. I eat around 14% fat according to Cronometer 

[Mike41]

2 hours ago, Sibiriak said:

Mike,  clearly you have an unhealthy relationship with olive oil.  My personal advice would be to make a clean break.  Just walk away.

And don't look back.

 

 

 

It’s really about the lack of enthusiasm on the CR  forum and making an attempt To get something going. Also just in case you haven’t checked I did not start the olive oil thread. But I get your mocking me, hope your enjoying your day!

[Mike41]

 

[Sibiriak]

3 hours ago, Mike41 said:

....100 grams of endothelial protective EVOO!!! Has around Has around 700 Calories!

Quite amazing,  isn't it--- given the well-known fact that a gram of pure fat = 9 calories ( carbohydrate & protein, 4 calories.)

Quote

....making an attempt To get something going.

I know your trolling.   And I'm just playing along!😈     It's midnight for me...

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Sibiriak

[Ron Put]

I am with Mike on this one.  The above video summarizes much of what I read and what prompted me to stop consuming olive oil at home. 

Since I did, my total cholesterol has dropped by a third, to less than 140, and my LDL is at about 70 (and VLDL at 6).  Since then I've upped my intake of EPA and DHA (from algae) so I am hoping to see a further drop in LDL. I'll also see if I can check the size of the particles, for good measure.

I do add olive leaf powder every other day or so, which appears to provide greater benefits than olive oil, without the fat hit.  I don't understand why some here are so obstinate 🙂

Ironically, last night I ate about two tablespoons of good EVOO at one of the better Italian restaurants where I live, with some focaccia, a couple of salads, and a couple of glasses of red. And a dark chocolate dessert to boot 🙂 So, I still indulge, but try to do it only while eating out.

[Mike41]

Well Ron my guess is that the obstinate ones are no different than other junk foodies in that they just don’t want to give up their treasured habits. Fat, as all chefs know, has an incredible effect on how food feels and tastes. Therefore if you can convince yourself it’s also HEALTHY by golly your gonna want to believe it and to hell with the rationale! 

[mccoy]

We've already discussed the issue of polyphenols. EVOO contains secoiridoids which AFAIK are not found in a significant amount in other foods, except olives and olive tree leaves. Please correct me if I'm wrong. They are not the same as other polyphenols. Polyphenols is a huge group of organic compounds. The previous comparison of polyphenols calorie per calorie is not honest, unless there is a similar amount of those specific polyphenols (secoiridoids).

Oil the vegan killer as we reiterated numerous times is not the same as Secoiridois-rich EVOO the vegan killer.

Edited September 19, 2020 by mccoy

[Ron Put]

3 hours ago, mccoy said:

We've already discussed the issue of polyphenols. EVOO contains secoiridoids which AFAIK are not found in a significant amount in other foods, except olives and olive tree leaves. Please correct me if I'm wrong. They are not the same as other polyphenols. Polyphenols is a huge group of organic compounds. The previous comparison of polyphenols calorie per calorie is not honest, unless there is a similar amount of those specific polyphenols (secoiridoids).

Oil the vegan killer as we reiterated numerous times is not the same as Secoiridois-rich EVOO the vegan killer.

mccoy, I am not arguing that olive tree products, including EVOO, do not contain beneficial properties, including secoiridoids.

What I am arguing is that it given the considerable evidence that the fat in olive oil is detrimental, it is prudent to choose a healthier alternative, such as olive leaf powder.  I appreciate that it tastes like somewhat bitter sawdust and it doesn't compare to the aroma or flavor of good EVOO, but then to many carrots have similar appeal when compared to the Lady M cake I mentioned above 🙂

Based on what I read, olive leaves are in fact not only less processed and devoid of harmful fat, but also have a better whole profile than oil and higher amounts of secoiridoids, as well as all the other goodies found in the olive fruit, such as oleuropein.

Cardioprotective and neuroprotective roles of oleuropein in olive

Various methods have been developed for qualitative and quantitative occurrence of phenolic and secoiridoid compounds analysis, from the most simple techniques to the more sophisticated such as TLC (Capasso et al., 1992), reversed phase HPLC (Ficarra et al., 1991, De Laurentis et al., 1997), GC–MS, FAMS or TMS (Baracco et al., 1995). In the fruits, phenyl acids, flavonoids and secoiridoids have been reported, the phenolic compounds representing 1–3% (w/v) Brenes et al., 1993. In the leaves, 19% (w/w) is oleuropein and 1.8% (w/w) flavonoids, of which 0.8% is luteolin 7-glucoside (Le Tutour and Guedon, 1992).

[mccoy]

Ron, leaf powder extract sure seems to be a very good alternative,  but the war on EVOO appears to be driven by extremist considerations. One tablespoon of high-poly EVOO yields about 100 kCals and, beyond the daily dose of suggested secoiridoids, contains more beneficial compounds like oleic acid. That's just what it takes, one tbs a day. And a little search to find reliable providers.

I'm not against personal preferences, I'm against conceptual biases. 

[Mike41]

Hmmm.....why is heart disease a pandemic. Number one killer. There are some populations that don’t experience it. These are indigenous people who eat plant based, low fat diets. The Mediterranean diet for the most part does not solve this issue. Why in the industrialized world do we see atherosclerosis in very young people. Epidemic levels of damaged arteries in youth. This is and has been well known. To me it’s like climate change. We don’t see it until it’s too late!

[Todd Allen]

8 minutes ago, Mike41 said:

The Mediterranean diet for the most part does not solve this issue. Why in the industrialized world do we see atherosclerosis in very young people. Epidemic levels of damaged arteries in youth. This is and has been well known.

If only we could get kids to drink more fat free soda and stop drinking so damn much EVOO we might end this catastrophe of youth with diabesity and heart disease!

[TomBAvoider]

Ron, I think you should take a careful look at your olive leaf powder. Chances are extraordinarily high - a virtual certainty - that you are not getting what you think you are getting in any olive leaf powder you purchase anywhere. That is due to the physics/chemistry of how such powder is produced and natural processes that make it virtually impossible to maintain polyphenol integrity in the product. Here is a link I urge you to read (sorry for the dodgy format):

https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/18317/PDF

I have a whole post dealing with my research into olive leaf powder (which I used to add to my coffee):

So that's the first issue - what is the chemistry of the olive leaf powder you are consuming?

Then there is the second issue - what is the health effect of consuming OLP and how does it compare to EVOO. In this very thread we are currently in - if you go to the beginning - there is an exchange between me and MR that touches on some considerations:

Bottom line, I'd be very cautious in assuming anything about the OLP you are consuming. YMMV.

Edited September 20, 2020 by TomBAvoider

[Mike41]

I think a few of you should go back and reread the original post on this thread by Sthira. He stated It quite well As to why this stuff is not healthy. Especially considering anyone who is quite serious about their health. The low fat clinical trial by esseltyne is about the best we got and we see a factor of 30. Yes you read that right. Esseltynes diet vs. standard diet in heart patients. Ornish also similar results. The predimed study as we know is a big joke like most of the epidemiology wrt fats and heart disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466936/

Edited September 21, 2020 by Mike41

[Mike41]

From the above article

A 1999 autopsy study of young adults in the US between the ages of 17 and 34 years who died from accidents, suicides, and homicides confirmed that coronary artery disease (CAD) is ubiquitous in this age group. The disease process at this stage is too early to cause coronary events but heralds their onset in the decades to follow.^[1] These data are similar to those reported in an earlier postmortem analysis of US combat casualties during the Korean conflict, which found early CAD in nearly 80% of soldiers at an average age of 20 years.^[2] From these reports, which are 17 and 63 years old, respectively, it is clear that the foundation of CAD is established by the end of high school

It is increasingly a shameful national embarrassment for the United States to have constructed a billion-dollar cardiac healthcare industry surrounding an illness that does not even exist in more than half of the planet. If you, as a cardiologist or a cardiac surgeon, decided to hang your shingle in Okinawa,^[3] the Papua Highlands of New Guinea,^[4] rural China,^[5] Central Africa,^[6] or with the Tarahumara Indians of Northern Mexico,^[7] you better plan on a different profession because these countries do not have cardiovascular disease. The common thread is that they all thrive on whole food, plant-based nutrition (WFPBN) with minimal intake of animal products.

By way of contrast, in the United States, we ignore CVD inception initiated by progressive endothelial injury, inflammatory oxidative stress, decreased nitric oxide production, foam cell formation, diminished endothelial progenitor cell production and development of plaque that may rupture and cause myocardial infarction or stroke.^[8] This series of events is primarily set in motion, and worsened, by the Western diet, which consists of added oils, dairy, meat, fish, fowl, and sugary foods and drinks—all of which injure endothelial function after ingestion, making food a major, if not the major cause of CAD

[Sibiriak]

30 minutes ago, Mike41 said:

By way of contrast, in the United States, we ignore CVD inception initiated by progressive endothelial injury, inflammatory oxidative stress, decreased nitric oxide production, foam cell formation, diminished endothelial progenitor cell production and development of plaque that may rupture and cause myocardial infarction or stroke.^[8] This series of events is primarily set in motion, and worsened, by the Western diet, which consists of added oils, dairy, meat, fish, fowl, and sugary foods and drinks—all of which injure endothelial function after ingestion, making food a major, if not the major cause of CAD 

That's just horrible.  An absolute public health catastrophe!     And one of the most important things you can do to avoid the dreadful  horror-show of  cardiovascular disease,  really,  the  thing that  should be on the top your list is:

Do  NOT under any circumstance  consume a tablespoon of fresh, organic, cold-pressed, polyphenol-rich  extra virgin olive oil on top of an organic mixed green and vegetable salad.

I'm telling you Mike,  don't do it.  Just don't!!!

[Mike41]

I won’t Sibiarak I won’t! Really I promise! I will only use my Ben and Jerry’s ice cream as a topping. No poisonous olive oil no way!

Edited September 21, 2020 by Mike41