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Impaired glucose tolerance now

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Tasbin,

 

@Dean wrote "So I tested my blood glucose once again this morning...... I then went on a brisk 30min walk. When I got back I tested it again, 45min after finishing my meal. It was 94 mg/dL. Given my history of IGT, It looks like I'm doing something right."

But you are cheating  :Dxyz .  What would be your PP BS without exercice before & after the meal? Do you still have a IGT  and only manage it with exercice?

 

Cheating!? Did you actually read the text you deleted and replaced by ellipses (i.e. "...")? What it said before you so rudely deleted it in your quote was:

 

Ten minutes after I finished eating, and over 2 hours since I started eating my meal (which BTW is front-loaded with most of the carbs and fruit) my glucose was 106 mg/dL.

 

During the 10 minutes between the end of my meal and my extremely respectable postprandial blood glucose reading of 106 mg/dL, I was engaging in my rather obsessive oral hygiene routine. While I readily acknowledge that routine is quite rigorous, I seriously doubt flossing and interdental picking my teeth is the kind of rigorous activity that might bring down my glucose dramatically ☺.

 

--Dean

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My apologies Dean. I thought that you started exercising right after finishing your meal.

I have read it too fast or/and I need to be more fluent in english (which is not my mother tongue) 

 

I also have noticed that  high FBS & IGT are also a classic concern in paleo/lc diet, so much by just taping on google "paleo high b", it will autocomplete it with high blood sugar, high blood pressure, high body temperature and high b12.

 

One example is here.
In the LC circle, it is well-know that you need to "carb" up 2-3days before doing a OGTT to avoid  IGT result.

Their usual explanation is that LC increase insulin resistance in the muscle, an utterly normal physiological response to carbohydrate restriction. But not so good for people already diabetic i suppose.

 

:(xyz

Edited by tasbin

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Tasbin,

 

My apologies Dean. I thought that you started exercising right after finishing your meal.

I have read it too fast or/and I need to be more fluent in english (which is not my mother tongue) 

 

No worries. Your egregious and self-serving out of context quote almost prompted me to question your sincerity (or sanity!) in my previous post, but then I remembered English isn't your first language. 

 

In the LC circle, it is well-know that you need to "carb" up 2-3days before doing a OGTT to avoid  IGT result.

Their usual explanation is that LC increase insulin resistance in the muscle, an utterly normal physiological response to carbohydrate restriction.

 

Yeah. I believe that's what the low carbers say - along with "ignore LDL, it's X that matters" where X might be "LDL particle size", "HDL", "APoB" or a host of other, less relevant biomarkers of CVD risk. Oh yeah - and butter is a health food. If it's grass fed you should put it in your coffee - speaking of which, David Asprey (aka the "Bulletproof Exec") interviewed Aubrey yesterday. Asprey's a real moron, and the worst thing is he thinks he's incredibly knowledgeable. but I'll post about that on another thread...

 

In my book, when CR folks start to exhibit the metabolic profile of low carbers and start to use their same excuses for what is clearly impaired metabolic health (i.e. "benign starvation diabetes"), I say that's the time to start worrying...

 

--Dean

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Tasbin,

 

I've posted a response partly to you and partly to Michael on Michael's thread on the Mechanism of CR-Associated Impaired Glucose Tolerance.

 

Tom, regarding glucometers. I agree with Randy. They are much more accurate, and especially repeatable than most people who haven't tried them think. My personal experience has demonstrated a glucometer to be quite a good tool for tracking glucose levels. Seemingly much more accurate (not to mention prompt and actionable) than HbA1c measurements, which suck.

 

Saul, I use my trusty Tanita body fat scale, to track lean mass. I've had it for my entire CR career. There are many on the market now that seem pretty equivalent, both by Tanita and other companies. I don't consider them especially accurate, but my experience with the one I have shows it to be is very consistent, and so is useful for tracking trends and trajectories.

 

--Dean

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Hi Dean!

 

I've been using my Tanita as long as I can remember.  (But I'm skeptical about it's info about body composition.)

 

  --  Saul

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Tasbin,

 

I've posted a response partly to you and partly to Michael on Michael's thread on the Mechanism of CR-Associated Impaired Glucose Tolerance.

 

 

Hi Dean,

Wow, very detailed response.

I will reply here. Feel free to move it in the other one if required.

I have read that Michael mentioned that lowish dietary protein + CR → low IGF1 →...IGT

And how about low IGF1 alone ?

The hypothesis that just low IGF1 alone  might reduced pancreatic β-cell insulin production should be a concern for people known to have a lower IGF-1 such as vegan[1][2].

However, IGT seems not to bother them  as a side effect as far as I know/search.

 

[1] The associations of diet with serum insulin-like growth factor I and its main binding proteins in 292 women meat-eaters, vegetarians, and vegans

[2] Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal bioavailable androgens in vegan men.

 

 

@Dean wrote "I happen to be in the midst of an email conversation with a friend who eats a very healthy, mostly whole-food, plant-based diet who doesn't restrict calories (eats almost as much as I do!) and who is reasonably active (not nearly as active as I am) but nonetheless is very thin - substantially skinner than either of us. This person appears to exhibit the classic Fontana-esque impaired glucose tolerance "

 

Did you advise him to exercise after meal and/or do some cold exposure ?

 

 

@Dean wrote: "So what should we non-diabetic but somewhat glucose metabolism-impaired folks do about our IGT?"

In a nutshell , we should do some post meal exercise & cold exposure.

How about simply increasing the BMI & probably the lean mass? I know it have worked for me at least & could be only the case because I managed to discover it quickly(less than a month more or less, I need to check my glucometer) maybe after its appearance because I am bit obsessed with diabetes like you with cold exposure. That why we may need more thin people with "older" IGT to try it ;)xyz to go beyond my N=1 experiment.  I tossed a bottle into the sea !

 

Nobody ever mentioned the usage of drugs or supplements, insulin sensitizers such as alpha lipoic acid that do not need a prescription or Insulin Mimickers or well-known cheap herbal supplements such as ginger to decrease insulin resistance, hba1C & even crp http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23496212 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25719344.

They may have a different impact on cronies with IGT but good FBS, but who knows ?

 

I have also read the book of Paul McGlothin (and the Longevity diet btw) and his lifestyle around optimizing glucose control. I thought he was only worried about glycation & increased mortality with increased PP BS/hba1C. It is sad he did not mentioned the risk of hyperglycemia  in his book like in his video. Maybe I have read a too old edition. Concerning the advice on BS control, I prefer the ones  from Dr Bernstein's book except the high protein diet because I am not diabetic and I am a bit worried about high protein for my healthspan even if it seems to work pretty well for him at 81 years old for a T1.

 

He explains into details what can raise/modify your BS from food, specific sugar substitute, exercise timing, stress, medication that impact BS (with a complete list in annex). and was probably the 1st one who has ever used and promoted the usage of a glucometer in1969 against all odds for diabetic BS control. Also, he is one of  the few (if not the only?) that explains that even with an hba1C of 5.5%(average BS of 120mg), you may suffer from diabetic complications sometimes asymptomatics at least for a while. Knowing that and the increased mortality even in non diabetic hba1C range, the limit between diabetes & without diabetic-related complications is a bit blurry and the threshold  for detection will be probably be lowered even further as it was the case in the past

 

off topic: you mentioned the CR archives, probably a mailing list. Do you have it only in your email box? Nobody could zip it and make it available here ? It seems full of gold nuggets.

Edited by tasbin

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Regarding glucometers. I agree with Randy. They are much more accurate, and especially repeatable than most people who haven't tried them think. My personal experience has demonstrated a glucometer to be quite a good tool for tracking glucose levels. Seemingly much more accurate (not to mention prompt and actionable) than HbA1c measurements, which suck.

I agree. In case of doubt, you can still compare the result of your glucometer just before a blood sample taken in the lab & compare it with their value.

Also, some glucometer have better precision in some specific BS ranges. You should choose one that match your target.

 

Also concerning hba1C, if you have enough data, you can still compute with more or less accuracy your hba1C. I use this formula as recommended by Dr Bernstein.

With this one, I have computed exactly the hba1C of my T2 mum (5.5%) and the lab value was identical. Others formula  give me wrong values above 6%.

Edited by tasbin

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Tasbin,

 

Did you advise [your skinny, IGT friend] to exercise after meal and/or do some cold exposure ?

 

Yes - definitely! And I think they are taking the advice to heart. At least I hope so...

 

How about simply increasing the BMI & probably the lean mass [to prevent CR-induced IGT]? 

 

For some people who have a strong belief (or hope) in dramatic benefits from serious CR, this will be an unappealing option.

 

Personally, as I've said, I previously exhibited IGT at a weight almost exactly where I'm at now, with no current IGT. Further, I've exhibited no IGT at a weight much lower (nearly 10 lbs less) than I was when I flunked Luigi's OGTT.

 

So I don't personally see a strong correlation between weight or muscle mass and IGT. But with all my exercise and cold exposure, my relatively small amount of muscle and fat mass may be extra mitochondria-rich, and therefore metabolically active, and therefore capable of soaking up all that glucose, even prior to my post-meal exercise & cold exposure.

 

off topic: you mentioned the CR archives, probably a mailing list. Do you have it only in your email box? Nobody could zip it and make it available here ? It seems full of gold nuggets.

 

The email list archives (at least since 2006) are available here. They are only available to list subscribers, and worse they aren't searchable, which makes them almost worthless, as far as I'm concerned. So yes, I rely on a copy of many (but far from all) email posts that I have squirrelled away in my personal, searchable, gmail archives.

 

I've been advocating for a while in general, and very explicitly since February on the "Administrative Issues" Forum (available here, but only to Forum administrators and CRS Board members I believe) that we really should try to bring the old archives back online and make them searchable. I even volunteered to chip in to pay, as well as organize the effort to get some freelancer to do the work, if that's what it would take.

 

The thread I started on the topic has 4 views. Three of them are mine. The one other person who read my plea remains anonymous, as he left no response. You get the picture.

 

Despite all our vibrant discussions (thanks everyone!), sadly, as an organization the CR Society is on life support.

 

--Dean

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Hi Dean,

 

I had a couple questions regarding your recommendations and practices. Digesting ( pun intended) your meal consumption before the BG checks you mention here, and connecting with comments in another thread on meal ordering you note that:

 

""The ordering of the food I eat (fruit first, then veggies and starch, then nuts & avacado) may be part of the reason I don't have trouble eating" [... Later in the thread] "I eat my 1/2 avocado near the middle of my meal (after fruit, with the vegetables and starches) and leave nuts until the end, with my dessert (bananas and durian)."

 

Elsewhere you added it all mixes anyway, but I am wondering, addressing your h/o impaired glucose tolerance: (1) whether ending with nuts/fat is part of the overall glucose load tolerance / BG minimization strategy (2) whether you use insulin sensitizers / if so, which? I noticed in one thread you know on garlic before the meal which esp. raw can help sensitize (3) I wonder what is the gold standard ref you use for the logjam hypothesis on your use of fruit ( are the fruit part of ominsukin sensitivity protocol too)?

 

Also in the current thread you mention taking the carbs early ( though sounds like after fruit)... Also a prime for your insulin that you prefer over taking at the end of the meal for this reason, or doesn't matter?

 

Thanks, &. sorry for the flurry of questions... Your detailed documentation is a benefit to us all & certainly has us thinking ;-)

Edited by Mechanism

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Mechanism,

 

No need to apologize. I'm always happy to answer questions.

 

I am wondering:

 

(1) whether ending with nuts/fat is part of the OGTY strategy

 

No. The reason I eat my nuts & seeds mostly at the end of my meal (mostly because I sprinkle some throughout) is for digestive purposes (see below) and because I like the combination of bananas/durian with nuts and seeds.

 

(2) whether you use insulin sensitizers / if so, which? I noticed in one thread you know on garlic before the meal which esp. raw can help sensitize

 

I drink lemon water before my meal (while stationary biking). I mix a ~1.5 Tbsp of apple cider vinegar into my blended fruit/veggie/fiber powder salad dressing. I do eat ~4 cloves of raw garlic with my meals, along with raw ginger, tumeric and horseradish root - to spice things up. I didn't remember garlic was good for glucose management. Thanks for reminding me.

 

(3) I wonder what is the gold standard ref you use for the logjam hypothesis on your use of fruit ( are the fruit part of ominsukin sensitivity protocol too)? 

 

I eat most of my fruit first and fats last, with veggies sprinkled throughout based on the "gold standard" of personal experience, to improve digestion. It is a strategy advocated by most whole food, raw vegans, and goes under the name of "food combining" although those folks often go overboard with very elaborate food combining rules that I've found don't really matter. Below is list of such rules from here (although I'd say ignore everything else on that page). It is actually quite a bit more intelligible and sensible than most such food combining rule sets I've seen:

  1. Starches + Veggies = OK
  2. Proteins + Veggies = OK
  3. Proteins + Starches = No No
  4. Plant Proteins + Plant Proteins = OK
  5. Animal Proteins + Animal Proteins = No No
  6. Starches + Starches = OK
  7. Fats + Proteins (animal or plant) = No No (or pair moderately)
  8. Fats + Carbohydrates = OK
  9. Fats + Starches = OK
  10. Fruits are best eaten on an empty stomach
  11. Fruit + Raw greens = OK (except melons)

Here is a food combining charts and another if you like pictures better. I certainly don't heed all these complex rules. But I have found eating quick-digesting fruits first, and leaving most nuts/seeds and denser, less water-rich fruit (like bananas and my favorite, durian) until near the end leaves my tummy happier than other food orderings. I used to feel more bloated and reluctant to exercise post-meal with other food orderings, so I've settled on my current one, which can be characterized as follows. If the two hours of my meal were divided up into 10 equal size time slices, here are the time slices when I eat various food items:

 

  • Melon (e.g. watermelon, cantaloupe, honeydew, mango, papaya) - 1-3
  • Berries (blueberries, blackberries, strawberries, cranberries, pomegranate)  - 1-4
  • Tree fruit (e.g. apples, peaches, kiwi, persimmon) - 2-8
  • Starch mix (w/ natto & spices) - 2-5
  • Avocado - 2-5 (with starch mix)
  • Leafy greens & non-starchy veggies (too many to list) - 3-8
  • Garlic cloves - 1-8 (nibble on throughout meal)
  • Nuts & seeds - (same as you, + chestnuts, chia & sunflower seeds) 4-10, but mostly 8-10
  • Bananas & durian - 8-10

I think that's about everything in my meal. As you can see, I like to interleave my tastes! This ordering based on my personal experience and preference. Your mileage may vary. You should test for yourself, and only worry about it if you're eating enough at one meal to make you feel uncomfortable afterwards.

 

Also in the current thread you mention taking the carbs early ( though sounds like after fruit)... Also a prime for your insulin that you prefer over taking at the end of the meal for this reason, or doesn't matter?

 

I eat my starch mix (black beans, chickpeas, lentils, black rice, quinoa, barley, oat groats, purple & orange yams) near the beginning to middle, along with my fruit. No particular reason other than habit, and that it seems to work well for my digestion.

 

Hope that helps!

 

--Dean

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It does! To consolidate, I reply to this and my other post on the "going nuts" thread, where I just updated my last reply to elaborate .

Edited by Mechanism

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All,

 

Earlier in this thread in this post, I pointed out that CR, like rapamycin, downregulates mTOR, and downregulating mTOR has been shown to impair glucose tolerance. I pointed to this post on the cold exposure thread discussing a model of how cold exposure may act synergistically with CR to increase mTOR activity (independent of the insulin/IGF1 pathway) and prevent IGT.  What I didn't remember was that buried in the nearly 600 pages of posts on the CE thread, was this even more interesting post I stumbled across today with evidence that CE can activate mTOR, triggering the conversion of white adipose tissue to brown adipose tissue, thereby improving insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance. This reinforces this post from today on the CE thread discussing the dramatic improvement in post-meal glucose clearance and energy expenditure enjoyed by people with BAT when exposed to cold.

 

In short, there is pretty strong evidence, both in controlled studies and among the small cadre of us experimenting with CE that cold exposure, when coupled with sufficient calories to build BAT, can reverse CR-induced IGT.

 

--Dean

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Dear ALL,

 

I come from a family that has a long history with Type 2 diabetes -- both my father and older brother were insulin-dependent Type 2 diabetics.  As a result, as a child and teen, I had glucose tolerance tests -- 2 or 3 tests, I don't remember which.  They were all good (I don't have the numbers).  Also, the whole family used artificial sweeteners from youth (sacharin and one other, sucaryl -- the latter  later found to be unacceptable during the Nixon administration).

 

When I was tested by Luigi, as Michael noted, I had outstanding numbers on my GTT.  But that was before reducing my protein intake.  Considering my family tendency to diabetes, I'm tempted to ask my CR-friendly nephrologist (who orders my bloodwork) to order a GTT.

 

However, I DO have some information:  I've recently had bloodwork done, on 5/23 and on 6/15.

 

5/23:  Fasting glucose:  60 mg/dL

6/15:  Glucose about 30 minutes after lunch:  135 mg/dL

 

Question:  Should I be concerned? 

 

(I recall that after the glucose bolus administered by Luigi, my blood glucose level dropped to within the normal range almost immediately.)

 

As I'm not sure how to interpret these results, input from Dean, Michael and/or Al will be greatly appreciated.

 

If there's any ambiguity in these results, I will request a GTT.

 

Thanks,

 

  --  Saul

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When I was tested by Luigi, as Michael noted, I had outstanding numbers on my GTT.  But that was before reducing my protein intake.  ...

 

However, I DO have some information:  I've recently had bloodwork done, on 5/23 and on 6/15.

 

5/23:  Fasting glucose:  60 mg/dL

6/15:  Glucose about 30 minutes after lunch:  135 mg/dL

 

Question:  Should I be concerned?

 

 

What did your lunch consist of? Specifically what foods and in what quantities.  

Edited by Michael R
Trimming excessive quotting

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Thanks for responding, Dewab!

 

It's been a while -- but the main ingredients were raw tomatoes, raw romain lettuce, and a tomato paste (containing only vegetables -- no added sugar).

 

  --  Saul

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In  people  with  normal  glucose  tolerance,  plasma  glucose  generally  rises  no  higher  than  7.8  mmol/l (140 mg/dl) in response to meals and returns to premeal levels within two to three hours. (1;2)

In  this  guideline named  "Guideline  for Management of Post Meal  glucose" and published by the  IDF (international diabetes federation) hyperglycaemia is  defined as a plasma  glucose  level  >7.8  mmol/l  (140  mg/dl)  two  hours after ingestion of food. And according to this document,  postmeal  hyperglycaemia  begins  prior  to  type  2 diabetes.

 

You can try DIY OGTT. If I remember well the usual protocol, one variation consists to drink 75g of glucose mixed 300ml of water for the 2 hour test. Glucose syrup is available for confectionnery use.

 

Also this study  (3)"tested the hypothesis that a standardized dose of jelly beans could be used as an alternative sugar source to the 50-g glucose beverage to screen for gestational diabetes mellitus."

 

 

1) Polonsky KS, Given BD, Van CE. Twenty-four-hour profiles and pulsatile patterns of insulin secretion  in normal and obese subjects.  J Clin Invest 1988; 81(2):442-448
2) American Diabetes Association. Postprandial  blood glucose (Consensus Statement).  Diabetes Care 2001; 24(4):775-778.

3) Lamar, M. E., T. J. Kuehl, et al. (1999). “Jelly beans as an alternative to a fifty-gram glucose beverage for gestational diabetes screening.” Am J Obstet Gynecol 181(5 Pt 1): 1154-1157.

Edited by tasbin

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Remember, that a glucose test is going to be impacted by a number of factors: when was your last exercise session, what time of the day (or night) the test occurred, were you sleep deprived, do you have an concurrent infection, when last did you drink alcohol or consumed caffeine etc., etc., etc. - which is why it is a good idea not to rely just on a single reading single test, but do the test with the whole context in mind and try to get more than one.

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Saul,

 

A fast glucose of 60 mg/dl is obviously very good, but a glucose level of 135 mg/dL at 30min after an all-vegetable lunch sounds a little on the high side. Nothing to get super-alarmed about, but I'd either do more self-testing with a glucose meter if I were you, or get an official OGTT done to see where you are at.

 

--Dean

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In (1), excerpted in detail here, a healthy, nondiabetic population was selected using the "Inclusion criteria [of] age 18–35 years and BMI <25 kg/m2 [and the] Exclusion criteria [of] diabetes, impaired fasting glucose or impaired glucose tolerance ... During the initial screening visit, a 75-gram oral glucose tolerance test ... was performed to exclude diabetes, impaired fasting glucose, or impaired glucose tolerance. Glucose concentrations were measured in duplicate ...: 0 minute 76.7 ± 4.6 mg/dl, 30 minutes 137.5 ± 18.8 mg/dl, 60 minutes 137.2 ± 25.9 mg/dl, 90 minutes 112.7 ± 20.7 mg/dl, 120 minutes 105.6 ± 13.5 mg/dl, 150 minutes 89.4 ± 15.6 mg/dl, and 180 minutes 75.6 ± 17.2 mg/dl (means ± SD, n = 24); inclusion criteria were glucose 0 minutes <90 mg/dl and glucose 120 minutes <140 mg/dl. All study participants exhibited normal values for HbA1c (5.0 ± 0.2%), fasting concentrations of insulin (42.4 ± 16.0 pmol/liter), C-peptide (0.59 ± 0.17 nmol/liter), proinsulin (3.5 ± 2.3 pmol/liter)".

 

Now, of course, there's a big difference between a 75 g glucose lemon-lime beverage and an (unknown quantity of) tomatoes, raw romaine lettuce, and a tomato paste — but that is basically all carb, albeit presumably mostly relatively low-GI stuff. And 137.5 ± 18.8 mg/dL does cover the range up to 156.3 mg/dL.

 

Closer to your (Saul's) informal self-test, they also administered two standardized meals with 50 g carbohydrate "supposed to exhibit fast absorption characteristics": "Meal 1 (rice pudding with sugar and cinnamon, 7:30 AM) and meal 2 (toast, honey, jam, curd cheese, orange juice, 12:30 PM)". "peak glucose concentrations were 133.2. ± 14.4 and 137.2 ± 21.1 mg/dl", respectively, and were reached in 42.7 ± 10.8 and 59.0 ± 16.7 minutes, respectively (Table 4) — again just barely overlapping with your 30 min data, tho' we don't know (and it's unlikely that) 30 minutes was your peak.

 

Reference

1: Freckmann G, Hagenlocher S, Baumstark A, Jendrike N, Gillen RC, Rössner K, Haug C. Continuous glucose profiles in healthy subjects under everyday life conditions and after different meals. J Diabetes Sci Technol. 2007 Sep;1(5):695-703. PubMed PMID: 19885137; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC2769652.

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Thanks, Michael, Dean and ALL!

 

I've asked my CR-friendly nephrologist, who writes the requests for my bloodwork and urinework, to authorize a GTT.   He'll probably approve it.  If not, I'll ask my CR-friendly endocrinologist -- I'm nearly sure that he'll approve it.

 

GTT is the best way to find to discover (or eliminate) the possibility of IGTT -- and having the GTT done carefully, as my previous tests have been done (by Luigi; and, as a child, by my pediatrician and then GP), is, I feel, the best way to handle it -- and there's no doubt that my medical insurance will approve it.

 

  -  Saul

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I am one of them now.


 

Dean Pomerleau wrote: Paul ...talks about "passing out glucometers at a recent CR workshop". He says "75% of CR folks had fasting glucose over 100"...I'm not sure what workshop he's talking about, but I find that hard to believe.

 

My fasting blood sugar (FBS) was around good 83mg/dl 2 months ago, max 92mg.

Not it is around 100mg or just above on average even after eating ad libitum for 1 month (BMI:21) & not more on CR.

I have tested with another glucometer with the same results.

 

Probably, my insulin resistance has inscrease or/and less working Pancreatic β-Cell :(xyz .

In USA, a FBS of 1g is the definition of prediabetes. In france, it is 1.1g so my doctor will just tell me to 'watch' my carbs intake and exercice...
I will request for an hba1C soon and post it here.

Edited by tasbin

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Tasbin,

 

Sorry to hear your impaired glucose tolerance (IGT) appears to have returned. Is your post-meal glucose also elevated? 

 

Earlier, as for how to combat IGT, you wrote:

How about simply increasing the BMI & probably the lean mass? I know it have worked for me at least & could be only the case because I managed to discover it quickly(less than a month more or less, I need to check my glucometer) maybe after its appearance because I am bit obsessed with diabetes like you with cold exposure. 

 

So it sounds like lean mass alone may not be sufficient to ensure one avoids IGT. Given your concern about diabetes, have you considered (or tried) some of the practices others around here have found effective for glucose management - especially cold exposure and post-meal exercise?

 

I presume the ad lib diet you've been eating is still healthy, right? IIRC, you are an omnivore right? What's been your recent macronutrient ratio and animal protein intake? 

 

Tasbin's post reminds me - Saul, any news on the OGTT you said you were going to request from your doctor?

 

--Dean

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Hi Dean!

Not surprising, I'm having trouble getting it approved (my lipid levels, TGI, etc, continue to be among the best in the CR Society.

-- Saul

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So it sounds like lean mass alone may not be sufficient to ensure one avoids IGT

 

Low lean mass could be the intial cause but for an unknown reason, I still suffer from a "not so tight" Homeostasis of Glucose Level.

 

I am sure that IGT appeared when my weight was one of the lowest since 10 years ago during a dry fast.

 

I do not have hyperglycemia (ie >140mg after 2h) but I still have sometimes >140mg (last value:156mg after 30min) after a high carbs meal.

As long as it is not after 2H, I suppose I should not worrry that much since " nearly all individuals without diabetes exceeded the IGT threshold of 7.8 mmol/l (140 mg/dl) at some point during the day" in non-diabetic individuals with low fasting glucose and normal HbA1c[1]

 

"I presume the ad lib diet you've been eating is still healthy, right? IIRC, you are an omnivore right? What's been your recent macronutrient ratio and animal protein intake? "

I am omnivore. My animal protein intake is around 0.8g/kg on average and for my macronutrient, I do not know exactly, but my carbs ratios is around 45 to  65%

 

Am I eating healthy ? Maybe not not on your strict definition but surely above average. I am  not dedicating as much money/time as you for my foods because I have still important but usual projects that are probably things of the past for you (buying a house... ).

 

I am trying to follow the rules of Dr Furhman (GBombs: green beans onions mushroom berries) and the checklist of Dr Greger in hist last book ("how to not die")& other things found here and there. It is still an ongoing and incremental process. I still love milk in my coffee for almost every breakfast and meat 1/2 times per week. It is a hot topic with my wife who is cooking for me because she loves meat so much... I avoid refined carbs if possible and do not eat added sugar unless on special occasions.

 

It is difficult to manage those restrictions outside with friends and families. They see me like a food taliban & are in general very ignorant in those subjects.

 

One man of my family, just last week, because I refused sugar in coffee/tea  told me very proudly that he drinks 1.5 liter of tea per day at work with around 30 sugars in it (is it even possible ?). I have even refused to drink orange juice and only water in a family meal when one insulin-dependent diabetic guy on the very same table  drank it along with a donut. Akward situation.

 

Also, my stepmother told me that I will be diabetic because I am too much worried about diabetes & I should eat more meat because I am working. WTF ?... My father thinks that we need added sugar (table sugar for eg) for "energy" & I need to eat more.

 

My step sister just today told me that she and her friend think I look sick with a BMI of 21(!) and that all men at my age (34) have a little bely, "that's normal" she told me...

 

See what I have to deal with ? I have never met someone in real life here that is interested is CR, fasting, optimal nutrition...So lonely.

 

Back to the subject: In fact I am addicted to milk like you with the Durian fruit. I probably "sound" like an drug addict trying to justify his behaviour :)

 

Anyway, what is the relation with blood glucose control ?

 

have you considered (or tried) some of the practices others around here have found effective for glucose management - especially cold exposure and post-meal -exercise?

 

I know for a theorical point and practical point probably (only CE is new to me) most of the   solutions on how to manage PP Blood glucose.

 

I have helped my diabetic mother to decrease her hba1C from 6.5-7% to 5.5% on average.  I did not know that I will have to apply it on myself that soon.

I have just tried post exercice today. BS before meal was 100mg & BS +1H was 109mg. So far so good.

 

But all those solutions will have little impact on  my FBS if it is still aroung 100mg or even worse keep increaseing even after fasting for 12 hours as far as I know.

 

I will try to increase my muscle mass with  strength training to see the impact and try one by one all the things that have an impact on BS (vinegar..) and even metformin if I cannot reach my BS target.

Your topic about CE about is  very long , maybe a separate and pratical topic "CE "for dummies" might help to "recruit" more people. Sorry if I appear rude or demanding but I cannot express myself in the most polite or elegant way in english.

 

Feeling hungry  based on my very little experience is "a walk in the park" compare to some pratices in CE ( bag of ices, drinking very cold water with crushed ice cubes...) that I have tried at least once.

 

My actual CE pratice is:

-cold shower at the end but progressively.I was in fact convinced by two Ted X videos that advice cold shower for other reasons (one was related to the confort zone).

-holding a very cold product in one hand from their freezer during shopping in the supermarket. That is my actual CE. But the BS control obtained by Gordon with CE is very impressive. So I will keep increasing CE.

 

 

1) Real-life glycaemic profiles in non-diabetic individuals with low fasting glucose and normal HbA1c: the A1C-Derived Average Glucose (ADAG) study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892065/

Edited by tasbin

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Tasbin,

 

Thanks for the update. It sounds like post-meal exercise helps you bring down glucose, like it helps many of us. Regarding cold exposure. You are right, that thread is a monster. Thankfully Gordo has provided a gentle introduction to CE and it's benefits on this Longecity forum thread. Thanks Gordo!

 

Tasbin, let us know if you try more CE (or anything else) and how it works to help you manage blood glucose.

 

--Dean

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