Gordo Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 I did search first, but did not find much in the forums about heart rate variability. It was mentioned only twice, including the following reference only: Calorie restriction in humans: An update.Most J, Tosti V, Redman LM, Fontana L.Ageing Res Rev. 2016 Aug 17. pii: S1568-1637(16)30183-0. doi: 10.1016/j.arr.2016.08.005. [Epub ahead of print] Review.PMID: 27544442http://sci-hub.cc/10...arr.2016.08.005those who are self-practicing this dietary intervention allows us to speculate on longer-term effects of more severe CR in humans.[From the full-text: Heart rate variability in the CR practitioners was comparable with published norms for healthy men and women 20 years younger (Stein et al., 2012) ... hormonal adaptations that have been reported in long-lived CR rodents, and are also implicated in the pathogenesis of several common cancers (Longo and Fontana, 2010), occurred in these individuals practicing severe CR.] I was wondering first of all, if anyone here is regularly tracking their heart rate variability, and if so, what device are you using and what are your results? This seems like something simple anyone could potentially track from home using their phone, an HRV app, and a relatively inexpensive bluetooth monitor. I once was tracking my own HRV but I was not confident in the chepo device I was using and once its battery died I never did any more with it. The reason I am thinking about this today is due to reading the following article: HRV Demographics, Part 1 – Age & Genderby Jason Moore | Jul 6, 2016 | application, health, research, science ...excerpt: "It is well established that HRV is a measure of biological age. Biological age correlates heavily with homeostatic capacity, which is the body’s ability to self-stabilize in response to stressors. Studies have shown that biological age is a better measure for determining health status and risk than chronological age. Yes, chronological age correlates very strongly with biological age. However, there are now many communities that are discovering that lifestyle choices can strongly influence your biological age regardless of chronological age." "In fact, the notion that one can control biological age has so much interest that there is a $1 million dollar prize being offered by The Race Against Time Foundation to competing teams that aim to reduce biological age. The foundation is backed by anti-aging thought leaders from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, the Alliance for Aging Research, and dozens more research organizations. “[The prize] will be awarded to the first team to demonstrate that it can restore homeostatic capacity (using Heart Rate Variability as the surrogate measure) of an aging reference mammal to that of a young adult.” The group has selected Heart Rate Variability as the indicator to determine the teams’ abilities to improve biological age through an improvement in homeostatic capacity." "Since biological age is not easily quantifiable except via HRV measurement itself, here are some normal ranges for HRV based on chronological age according to the study analyzing 260 healthy subjects performed by Umetani et. al, 1998." This in turn led me to the intriguing Palo Alto Longevity Prize: $500,000 Palo Alto Homeostatic Capacity PrizeThe $500,000 Palo Alto Homeostatic Capacity Prize will be awarded to the first team to demonstrate that it can restore homeostatic capacity (using heart rate variability as the surrogate measure) of an aging reference mammal to that of a young adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Pomerleau Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 Gordo, How cool is that! I knew HRV was an important marker of health and mortality risk (like VO2Max), but I had know idea there was such a prize for restoring it to youthful levels. I was one of Luigi's subjects in that HRV study you reference. He had us wear a heart rate monitor for 24 hours while we visited his lab in St. Louis. I don't think he ever shared our scores with us, but I bet he might still have them and be willing to if we ask. It's cool to see a table of age-standardized HRV measurements. That is a long way of saying I'm game. If we can identify a reliable heart rate monitor and app (Android) I'd buy it. Then we could compare with each other, and with anyone else who'd like to participate in our little study. Perhaps we could even compare ourselves longitudinally with the HRV measures that Luigi collected on some of us so many years ago. I'm almost certain Kenton (aka Mr. Competitive - in a good way!) would join us. Heck, I'd actually be surprised if Kenton wasn't already tracking his own HRV. :-) Maybe TomB would join in as well. Perhaps we could do a little citizen science project with a standardized HRV monitor and protocol among a bunch of us crazies. Maybe You and I could get to the bottom of HIIT vs. "long & slow". :-) Here is a long-shot. Maybe Michael would join in and we could find out who's aged more since Luigi's study and who's gonna live longer. He's younger than I am, but I'm willing to spot him a few years, just to make it fair :-). Maybe we could bet (or take bets!) to raise money for our favorite charities. I know, I'm getting a little carried away. But I like this idea. What do you (and others) think? --Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted September 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) I think its a good idea! I'm intrigued by HRV, when I was tracking mine, I noticed that when my HRV decreased, almost invariably I would notice soon after (the next day or the same day) that my immune system was fighting something, so I learned to take it easy as soon as I saw that signal, its actually pretty useful in that way. I think the best app is "Elite HRV". The compatible monitors they recommend are the polar H7 and the Wahoo TICKR, they are both $49.99 on Amazon. Based on customer reviews, I think I'd prefer the Wahoo TICKR. Unfortunately I have always had a hyperactive sympathetic nervous system, I have even participated in one research study related to this condition, which is associated with low HRV. I really don't know what the connection is exactly, but I am HOPING that doesn't mean my expected lifespan is lower as a result. I suspect your readings will be far higher than mine. I would like to study this topic more, I'm not yet convinced that comparisons between different people is "legit" (as opposed to your personal trend over time by itself). The article I posted above sort of hints at this as well, but kind of leaves it up in the air. I wish I knew what my readings would have been say 10, 20, and 30 years ago for comparison. -Gordo Edited March 27, 2019 by Gordo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Pomerleau Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 Thanks Gordo, I too am intrigued, especially since I suspect both of us have elevated sympathetic nervous system activity as a result of our cold exposure practices. It will be interesting to see how CE impacts HRV. I think the best app is "Elite HRV". Funny, I just remembered I have Elite HRV already installed on my phone. I downloaded it many moons ago to see if it would work with my cheap (Aldi's brand) bluetooth heart rate monitor. It didn't, and at the time I didn't think it worth springing for one of the compatible HR monitors. But now I do! The compatible monitors they recommend are the polar H7 and theWahoo TICKR, they are both $49.99 on Amazon. Based on customer reviews, I think I'd prefer the Wahoo TICKR. Sounds good to me. Unless someone else (i.e. our resident gadget guru Kenton...) chimes in with a better alternative, I'm game for buying the TICKR. I'll ping Kenton in case he's not paying attention. Anybody else game for a little citizen science on HRV? How about you Michael, Mr. Vice President for Research and chief citizen science advocate? As I recall you were gung-ho about a couple ideas for citizen science projects people brainstormed during the rap session at the Conference. Any update on those? Or how about that immune system study we were hoping to get going with Dr. Janko Nikolich-Žugich, still prominently displayed on our home page...? In your comments in the CR Motivation survey, you wrote: I also continue to practice in hopes of contributing to human CR science, potentially helping to more firmly establish or rebut translatability and informing the development of longevity therapeutics. That is a goal we both share. Since academic researchers aren't beating down the door to study us any more, and we can't seem to field enough subjects even when they do..., it appears our only remaining "hope of contributing to human CR science" (short of our death certificates) is to take the science into our own hands. Given Luigi studied our HRV many years back, and HRV is clearly considered a reasonable candidate for a biomarker of aging, this seems like about as good an opportunity for citizen science as any. How about it? Do you want to join us, and perhaps even organize us? Maybe you have other suggestions? Perhaps we could all get OGTTs1? ☺ --Dean 1Just noticed your edit to that post. I love Inigo Montoya's "I do not think it means what you think it means" quote. Great minds think alike. I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. But did your really feel the need to Trump me, by upping the ante with a GIF? I'll have to use that next time, or come up with something better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted September 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Alright Dean, game on! My Wahoo TICKR has been ordered. Interestingly enough, a guy just started selling them on eBay for $35 (lowest price anywhere), brand new, and he has 100% positive feedback, he has already sold over 100 of them. Now is the time to get one: Wahoo fit TICKR Heart Rate TrainerRun/Bike/Gym Amazing value only $35 Brand NEW It seems to work with all of the major apps both android and iPhone including all the major fitness tracker apps (although personally I mostly only care about HRV). -Gordo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Pomerleau Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Gordo, Done - game on! Mine's on order too. Kenton said he's on-board too - but didn't have any better suggestions for HRV monitors. I'll ping him to make sure he orders this one too. Anybody else going to join us! TomB - we could really use someone with your meticulous approach to protocols to formulate a test plan for all of us. How about it? (I'll ping him too in case he's not paying attention). Update: Talked to TomB. He's out. Too busy with work and personal stuff. --Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Thx for pinging me off list. I try to keep up here in the crsociety "house" but often am behind. Email typically will get straight to the middle of my brain real-time at (almost) the speed of light! Game on. I got one. Thx Dean, Thx Gordo!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas G Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Would it be useful to have someone new to CR to join? If so, I might be interested. $50 is a bit steep for my budget, but $35 seems doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Pomerleau Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Thomas, Would it be useful to have someone new to CR to join? If so, I might be interested. $50 is a bit steep for my budget, but $35 seems doable. Your data would be very valuable, since it might help to show changes over time in HRV, and allow you to correlate them with adjustments you make to your diet & lifestyle. We'd love to have your participate in our citizen science experiment. The more the merrier! --Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielovich Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I would like to participate as well.I've tried to order it, but as I live in a kibbutz in Israel eBay would not approve my address.I'll try to order tomorrow to a friends house, who lives in a big city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Allen Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I've ordered one too. I had been looking at watch style heart rate monitors but had not yet found one with a desirable combination of specs, reviews and price. I'd rather have a watch than a chest strap, but I haven't seen an inexpensive watch that appears to actually perform well as a real time heart monitor. I'd be willing to participate in a citizen science "study" though my data may be of little value as I'm rather atypical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Pomerleau Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Wonderful Daniel - And once again, welcome! I hope you can get a Wahoo Tickr. Besides eBay, it is also available on Amazon for a somewhat higher price ($50). Is it easier to get stuff from Amazon for you there in Israel? I'm not sure about your personal background (you haven't told us much yet), but your day job as Cofounder and CTO at Healthymize.com sounds incredibly interesting and relevant: Healthymize is developing a suite of smartphone apps that passively monitor and diagnose diseases based on analyses of patients' voice and breathing during regular voice calls , without interfering with their daily routines. That sounds so cool - if you can really pull it off! I'd love to learn more about you and your company / technology. It sounds very relevant to several of our mutual interests ☺. Maybe you could start a new thread to introduce yourself, on either ChitChat, General Health, or CR Practice, depending on the angle you want to take in your intro. You could also post to Members Only, but then Google can't crawl it, and by now I suspect you know how I feel about that ☺. If you really want to remain in stealth mode, we can just continue our off-forum conversation, which I'm finding fascinating. But I think others will too, so I encourage you to post a little more about yourself. --Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Pomerleau Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Todd, I've ordered one too. Great! We're getting quite a group. I'd be willing to participate in a citizen science "study" though my data may be of little value as I'm rather atypical. Your data will definitely need to be asterisked Todd, should we ever get our results published! ☺ I'd rather have a watch than a chest strap, but I haven't seen an inexpensive watch that appears to actually perform well as a real time heart monitor. Agreed. I don't plan to continuously wear the Tickr chest strap. I really like my FitBit Charge HR (my review here). Have you considered it? You can probably get it for less now on Amazon or eBay, since they've come out with an updated model. I don't think you'll want Michael's favorite, the Basis Peak, and not just because it looks like a Casio from the mid 70s. It was recently recalled due to overheating problems. There I go again, slipping into picking on Michael. A hard habit to break. Sorry Michael (if you're actually reading this thread...). Kenton seemed to be excited about the Hesvit S3 which he discussed in these posts. It's much less expensive than the FitBit, but not quite as nice if you ask me. Maybe Kenton can comment on his experience with it now that he's had it for a few months. Unfortunately, none of the wrist models that I'm aware of support HRV monitoring. They really should. I wonder if it's just not possible being that far away from the heart. Daniel, any insights on that? You're a physicist and CTO at a company doing biometrics... --Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielovich Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Wonderful Daniel - And once again, welcome! Dean, Thanks a lot, I wish I had found this place years ago. I'm not sure about your personal background (you haven't told us much yet), but your day job as Cofounder and CTO at Healthymize.com sounds incredibly interesting and relevant: Healthymize is developing a suite of smartphone apps that passively monitor and diagnose diseases based on analyses of patients' voice and breathing during regular voice calls , without interfering with their daily routines. That sounds so cool - if you can really pull it off! I'd love to learn more about you and your company / technology. It sounds very relevant to several of our mutual interests ☺. Maybe you could start a new thread to introduce yourself, on either ChitChat, General Health, or CR Practice, depending on the angle you want to take in your intro. You could also post to Members Only, but then Google can't crawl it, and by now I suspect you know how I feel about that ☺. Done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd S Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) Dean -- FYI, I've now also ordered the Yahoo fit TICKR from eBay. Delivery is projected to be the end of September. [This is my second ever eBay purchase. The first was the vibration platform that you talked about -- see https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11697-whole-body-vibration-therapy-for-bone-health/?do=findComment&comment=16514 -- and that I continue to enjoy briefly standing on and doing a supported handstand on every morning.] I'm willing to contribute my future HRV data if it seems that it might be useful information. Todd Edited September 12, 2016 by Todd S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted September 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Its great that we have several people on board with this, we may learn a lot about what interventions are most effective at improving HRV and/or what long term lifestyle factors correlate to various HRV levels and by extension improve our understanding of their impact on aging. I posted a link to this thread on the CR Society facebook page, and received some feedback already. One thing I've read is that there are many different ways of representing HRV and I think most of the apps do it differently so it may be hard to translate numbers from app to app, but Leo says he has been tracking his HRV for 6 years (using ithlete and an old device that uses a dongle). Interestingly, he says his HRV goes UP in response to cold exposure and is most influenced by sleep. Considering I do pretty serious cold exposure and have amazing sleep, maybe things won't be so bad for me -- then again he says work stress and high intensity training lower his HRV... Leo Sho-silva Ive been using one the last 6 years or so ...haven't had a cold since ..HRV aligns with pulse pressure Unlike · Reply · 1 · 6 hrs Darren Gordon Leo Sho-silvaDo you use any apps besides ithlete? If you look at a chart of your 6 year history, what is the slope? Have you ever tried the elite HRV app and if so, what is you HRV score with it? Finally, I am curious to know if you've noticed dips in your HRV that corresponded with your body being in "recovery" either from your immune system fighting something, or after intense exercise, injury, or lack of sleep. Thanks! Like · Reply · 1 · 5 hrs Leo Sho-silva Over 6 year its average around high 60s which is average for my age..I up until recently only had ithletes dongle so couldn't try others.I now have a Bluetooth transmitter so might try elite,but ithletes 1 minute protocol is scientifically valid.Things which raise my hrv are good sleep, cold showers and good consistent maf running (180 minus age BPM).Things that lower my hrv is anything that hammers my CNS eg high intensity training ,my kids being ill ,stress at work or at home,and things that niggle me .One time our hot water wasn't working for a few days..I thought I wasn't phased by it but HRV plummeted for a week then returned to normal when everything got fixed..I haven't quite worked out what is optimal exercise wise ..can't really see link with diet as I tend to eat same most days..Sleep seems to be biggest factor Unlike · Reply · 1 · 4 hrs · Edited Leo Sho-silva I had my highest scores when family went on holiday and I was home myself high 80s ,confident I can get it back up there ..maybe :)...although a rising hrv could also signify aging Like · Reply · 4 hrs Darren Gordon In what way can a rising HRV signify aging? I have not heard of that before. Thanks by the way for your detailed responses. Like · Reply · Just now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielovich Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 I've ordered it now, the shipping to Israel was $30 It will arrive mid October.Gordo - Do you have a nice guide for the HRV? how one converts the readings to the biological age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Pomerleau Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 I'm so excited to see so much interest in our HRV citizen science. It warms my heart ☺. Thanks for kicking this off Gordo. I read with interest both the FB person's observation that sleep, long-slow cardio, and cold exposure helps increase HRV, while HIIT drops it. ☺ --Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Pomerleau Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 P.S. The FB guy's observation about CE boosting HRV is intriguing. I wonder if there is any literature on that? I'd check, but I'm a bit busy at the moment... Anyone else care to check into it, and post on the CE thread, with a link from here over there, or visa versa? Hint, hint... --Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted September 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) Yes Dean, I too am intrigued by the prospect of CE improving HRV which certainly at face value seems unlikely due to the fact that CE boosts sympathetic nervous system activity, which in turn lowers HRV. Perhaps there is some sort of "rebound" effect that kicks in after you temporarily stop CE (like I do when I sleep, or after a cold shower, etc). In fact in Caloric restriction may reverse age-related autonomic decline in humans (of which you participated) they even talk about using beta blocker drugs to suppress the sympathetic nervous system which has been shown to significantly increase HRV. This is an interesting tangent to me, as I have not previously read much about beta blockers as longevity drugs, but a quick search did turn up Increasing longevity by decreasing sympathetic stress – early receptor blockade pharmacotherapy I kind of wonder if there might be some synergy between beta blockers and CE (even though personally I hate the idea of taking ANY drug long term). But I also wonder if (or how much) it really matters as far as longevity goes, if you compromise your HRV via CE or example, or you boost your HRV via drugs for example - maybe these "artificial" manipulations are meaningless? I'm not sure how well understood the mechanisms are here. Clearly you do not want to see your HRV declining much as you age, but what if it's on the low side when you are young or middle age but rock steady as you age? Maybe there is some crossover point where you end up on top later in life as your peers decline? Do you have a nice guide for the HRV? how one converts the readings to the biological age? So far the only one I've seen is the chart included in the first post of this thread. The same was also referenced by: Caloric restriction may reverse age-related autonomic decline in humans Which also includes a lot of other information that might be of value to anyone participating in our little study here. Leo also provided some additional info including a reference to: Power spectral analysis of heart rate in subjects over a hundred years old. I can't seem to find the full text, but he posted the following image from the study which is intriguing, apparently if you live long enough eventually your HRV may turn back up again although this was not reflected in Umetani et al, 1998 (perhaps becuase it only happens when you pass the century mark!) Then again, maybe this is just a misleading representation and the "ultra-centenarians" just always had higher HRV? I have no idea but clearly the 100+ crowd is "special" and the vast majority of people under 85 are "not special" in terms of longevity so a chart like this now that I think about it more, seems really ridiculous and is not evidence of a U-shaped curve for HRV over one's lifetime. Thoughts? Edited September 13, 2016 by Gordo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted September 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Leo also provided this GEM which I am sure will be of great interest and usefulness to all of us once we have those HRV monitors! He explains all of the different flavors of measuring HRV and describes how to use HRV biofeedback to optimize your health. “It turns out that everybody has their own unique pace, where breathing in and breathing out at that pace produces the biggest peaks and valleys, the exact right phase angle between respiration and heart rate, and when you go into that particular rhythm, it seems to have tremendously beneficial effects. Again, we often see this as a brand new idea that’s 2500 years old because this is exactly what these yogis were doing.“– Richard Gevirtz The Quantified Body Podcast Episode 35 – Richard Gevirtz Heart Rate Variability Biofeedback as a Tool to Reduce Stress What You’ll Learn The early days of biofeedback – key discoveries in conscious control over autonomic functions of the body (6:12). How the science on the benefits and mechanisms of various yogi techniques needs to improve – to produce more quality studies and reliable data (11:05). The degree of complexity in HRV biofeedback and the applicability of various beat-to-beat analysis in studying mechanisms of stress response (14:19). Optimizing breathing and heart rate rhythms has beneficial effects on the cardiovascular system (19:26). Why standard metrics do not apply for slow breathing, because this category is a low frequency range of approximately 4-7 breaths per minute (26:54). Overviewing the ups and downs of available beat-by-beat biofeedback devices (32:25). An average training session aimed at determining optimal breathing frequency during slow breathing. How to optimize measuring equipment and make people feel comfortable during the HRV tracking exercise (42:31). Performance benefits of practicing breathing exercises, with examples in sports and music (46:33). For optimal results, during practicing slow breathing you should be non-judgmental and self-observant at the same time (50:09). How the brain and heart integrate physiological feedback in the body and how this system is negatively affected by anxiety and stress (52:35). Positive effects on gastrointestinal health in kids with inflammatory bowel disorders, who practice slow breathing techniques (57:55). In most studies on depression, improvements in HRV biofeedback are accompanied with beneficial effects (1:00:01). Slow breathing training helps for anxiety and urge – control, by inhibiting stress response centers in the brain (1:03:52). Data on cortisol (the stress hormone) indicates beneficial effects of slow breathing practice in fighting stress (1:04:30). When practicing meditative slow breathing, it is important to measure EEG waves in low frequency ranges – in order to clearly demonstrate beneficial effects on heart performance (1:05:16). Gratitude and compassion mindfulness exercises are broadly related to HRV performance, but optimizing slow breathing is a practicable and improvable skill to be learned and trained (1:08:47). In the future, the team and Prof. Richard will continue to research outcomes of HRV studies, physiological mechanisms of slow breathing, and standardizing yoga breathing practices by beneficial effects (1:10:48). How to best obtain information of Prof. Richard’s research and career (1:14:27). People and lines of research related to Prof. Richard’s interests. Additional practical advice on integrating HRV biofeedback with your performance goals (1:14:27). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Pomerleau Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Gordo, I agree 100% that that curve in no way implies a U-shaped HRV curve over one's lifetime. As you point out, those centenarians are a rare bunch, and have probably had higher than average HRV their entire lives. They should test the offspring of the centenarians to see how their HRV compares with age-matched controls. --Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlPater Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Thanks Dean, Or they could prospectively study centenarians directly. The effect was not as great as dementia and age at baseline, and the sympathetic nervous system seems to be involved. 27 was a low number of subjects, unfortunately. Prognostic significance of heart rate variability in centenarians.Shimizu K, Arai Y, Hirose N, Yonemoto T, Wakida Y.Clin Exp Hypertens. 2002 Jan-Feb;24(1-2):91-7.PMID: 11848173http://sci-hub.cc/10.1081/ceh-100108719AbstractWe studied the significance for further survival of heart rate variability and other variables in the very elderly. In 1992, we assessed activities of daily living, cognitive function, and nutritional status in 27 centenarians with no disease, in addition to the power of the heart rate variability in the ultralow, very low, low (LF), and high frequency (HF) bands. In 1996, we assessed survival in these centenarians; 17 had died and 10 were still living. Logistic regression analysis using backward elimination detected three factors, dementia, LF/HF, and age, that independently influenced mortality. Mortality risk increased with greater age in 1992, more severe dementia, or lower LF/HF. Sympathetic nerve activity, represented as LF/HF, may be associated with prognosis for survival in centenarians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Pomerleau Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Al, PMID: 11848173 Thanks! Great stuff. Looks like increased HRV among the oldest of the old may indeed by an indication of even more extra years ahead. Sure you don't want to join us in our citizen science? As I said, the more the merrier. Your data (like Todd's) would obviously need an asterisk due to your heart abnormalities. Do you think those were congenital, or perhaps (partially) CR-induced? Remember this (anonymous) person from long back who had trouble drifting between CR and anorexia? He attributes his heart valve issues to poorly-practiced CR = eating disorder. --Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted September 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 The good folks at elite HRV just posted some extremely useful and timely information on their website that should be of interest to anyone reading this thread. In the first post of this thread I referred to HRV values by age from published research using SDNN, rMSSD, ln(rMSSD) and PNN50, but now we have values by age AND gender with additional HRV scoring methods as well as a translation of scores between the most popular apps out there! This is most likely the largest data set of its kind ever published anywhere. Unfortunately the cohort for this large sample is most certainly not representative of the general population, but in some ways that also has value for us, as we want to see how we compare to very healthy people (who most likely aren't doing CR or CE by the way). See: Normative Elite HRV Scores by Age and Gender "...Keep in mind, the Elite HRV user base may not directly represent the general population. We have a higher representation of elite and recreational athletes that typically have higher HRV scores. This may slightly skew the sample stats when compared to some medical research studies. That said, we do have a very large population sample (over a million readings) that helps increase the confidence of the data analysis. There is also a significant number of “average” health seekers and a number of people rehabilitating from serious injuries, illnesses, or diseases." The average HRV score for Elite HRV users is 59.3 (on a 1-100 scale) with 75% of users’ HRV scores falling between 46.3 and 72.0. Histogram data of HRV scores for 24,764 Elite HRV users. Whose data are we looking at? Starting with over 72,000 users and over a million readings in our database, we first narrowed the readings down to only short-term time-domain “morning readiness” readings. Then we removed the obviously inaccurate readings (usually generated from incompatible measurement devices). We then further reduced the population sample to Elite HRV users that have taken more than one “morning readiness” reading resulting in a conservative sample population of 24,764 people. An average HRV score was generated for each person that fulfilled this criteria and those average scores were used to develop statistical HRV results. Age and Gender BreakdownThe Elite HRV population sample was further broken down into age and gender groups based on user input data to allow users to compare themselves to others within their same demographic group. The Elite HRV users (based on the 35% of users that optionally input their age and gender details) are 13.9% females and 86.1% males. As can be seen from the charts and tables below, HRV decreases with increasing age for both genders. To learn more about how gender influences HRV and why HRV decreases with age, see this post. Chart 2 – This chart shows Elite HRV scores statistics for 8,873 males over different age ranges. The data is presented as box plots that represent the medians, 1st and 3rd quartiles, and extreme values (minimums and maximums). There are also markers for means at each age range. Chart 3 – This chart shows HRV Score vs. Age for 8,873 Elite HRV male users. Chart 4 – This chart shows Elite HRV scores statistics for 1,435 females over different age ranges. The data is presented as box plots that represent the medians, 1st and 3rd quartiles, and extreme values (minimums and maximums). There are also markers for means at each age range. Chart 5 – This chart shows HRV Score vs. Age for 1,435 Elite HRV female users. Table 1 – Data from 10,308 Elite HRV users showing ln(rMSSD) and Elite HRV Score presented by age range and gender. Elite HRV Scores Compared To Other PlatformsKeep in mind, the data used to calculate these scores was gathered on Elite HRV’s platform, so it does not necessarily represent the user populations of those other platforms and does not take into account different artifact cleaning algorithms and other potential differences. There are other HRV software applications that are not listed in the below table because they either do not publish their scoring system or do not have a large user base. Table 2 – Data gathered on Elite HRV platform shows rMSSD, ln(rMSSD), and “HRV Scores” for Elite HRV and is calculated for other HRV software applications based on published calculations. The data does not necessarily represent the user populations for the other HRV platforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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