Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Gordo

The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant

Recommended Posts

Someone in the CR Society facebook group posted a link to this, I had not seen it before, searched the forums and couldn't find it either.  I rather enjoyed this and I will also read it to my kids:

The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant

Journal of Medical Ethics, 2005, Vol. 31, No. 5, pp 273-277

Edited by Gordo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone in the CR Society facebook group posted a link to this, I had not seen it before, searched the forums and couldn't find it either. I rather enjoyed this and I will also read it to my kids:

The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant

Journal of Medical Ethics, 2005, Vol. 31, No. 5, pp 273-277

Thanks, Gordo. And that was written in 2005.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Gordo.

That somebody was me :). Started with Facebook now on the site.

I was a big  CR believer in 2003-2006

Than life happened  and   all this was somewhere in the back of my mind (when you're 25 the fear of your final destination is not that overwhelming).

Now 12 years later being older and wiser I might as well start  actually doing it :). 

There is no actual risk in doing CR and I have been a vegetarian (some small gaps) for the past 3 years anyway.

 

Surprised the fable  not  incredibly well known actually on this site.

I think I found it on the Mprize site some years ago and was absolutely amazed that somebody could think this way.

Nick Bostrom is simply a great thinker. Way ahead of many of us ( I am also fascinated by "Superintelligence" -his recent book). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no actual risk in doing CR...

None? Thought experiment: find one.

 

Note: the dragon-tyrant is merely a simulation :Dxyz

It's shallow and cute and hopeful and suitable for children, I think, and so I like it. What bothers me is that they create this big silver bullet nuclear weapon and it works, kablam, the dragon is dead. But why doesn't the dragon then become billions of smaller dragons programmed to build tiny dragon mountain holes throughout all cells in all bodies including the great and kindly King's?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, the story is a bit simplistic, but I understand why it was written the way that it was, you can definitely go overboard with analogies and lose your target audience.   There are all sorts of ways the story could be tweaked to make it more realistic, there could be seven dragons for example, representing the seven categories of age related damage identified by SENS.  Each would require a different strategy to kill, some being more difficult than others, etc.

 

Welcome Mihaicl1981!

 

Regarding CR, and this is yet another part of the Dragon Tyrant fable that is probably "unfortunate" (or in need up update).  The story really didn't need to include CR at all (and shouldn't have).   At any rate, there ARE real risks to practicing "serious" CR.  From my personal perspective, CR in and of itself, as a longevity tool, is "dead" (i.e. doesn't work, is not recommended).  There is some discussion about this here that you might be interested in.  CR (vs. a healthy obesity avoiding diet and lifestyle) has not been shown to work in any large mammal whatsoever as far as I know, and doesn't even work in most subtypes of mice.  Anecdotes suggest it carries the risk of osteoporosis, an immune system that may not be equipped to fight off chronic infection, and may compromise ones ability to benefit from cold exposure.  All of this may sound pretty weird coming from the "CRSociety" forum, haha, which is also something we've discussed.  From my perspective this group is a bunch of fringe "biohackers" willing to enthusiastically explore all things related to health and longevity with an eye toward finding ways to optimize healthspan.  But all the big gains will come from emerging technologies and perhaps developed by superintelligence that will not exist for some time.  You may be wondering, "but what about all of those documented benefits from CR"?  As far as I can tell, these can (and should be) achieved with other means not involving severe CR.  The best way to lower blood pressure, reduce cancer risk, eliminate cardiovascular disease, lower blood sugar and diabetes risk, etc. is with a varied, phytonutrient rich, plant based, whole food diet, vigorous exercise, supplements where needed, and exceptional sleep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without further discussion CR is not the silver bullet. Still if you manage to get cardiovascular problems out of the way you are already way ahead.

This is my first pillar : reduce risk of heart disease.

Cancer is probably the 2nd and mental diseases are the ones worrying me most.

 As  I said the most probable dragon slayer will be  AI (Strong AI , General AI you name it). 

Getting back to the fable I still find it (12 years later) inspiring .. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×