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mccoy

New section on physical exercise for longevity

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Re. the sarcopenia by which astronauts engaged in the space base missions are affected, it is something which tends to worry the space agencies pretty much. It's an accepted fact that such missions tend to decrease the longevity of astronauts (together with other factors like increased CV risk and ionizing radiations risks). Also, while planning explorative landing to Mars with human personnel, it is feared that space-induced sarcopenia might compromise the ability of astronauts to perform their duties after landing.

 

NASA has an ongoing experiment on this: 

Effect of Prolonged Space Flight on Human Skeletal Muscle (Biopsy) - 11.22.16

 

 

 

Science Results for Everyone 
Maintaining strong muscles is a big enough challenge on Earth. It is much harder to do in space where there is no gravity.  Calf muscles biopsies before flight and after a six months mission on the ISS show that even when crew members did aerobic exercise five hours a week and resistance exercise three to six days per week, muscle volume and peak power both still decrease significantly.  Overall, the data suggest that current exercise countermeasures are not enough.  The addition of a second treadmill and the Advanced Resistive Exercise Device (ARED) along with more rigorous exercise regiment are giving good results in preventing muscle loss and preserving overall muscle health....
Space Applications

It is well established that muscle mass and strength decrease during space flight. The atrophy of muscles in space can affect not only the performance of astronauts during missions, but it can lead to severe muscle injuries upon return to Earth. Astronauts landing on Mars may be susceptible to muscle injury once they step onto the planet. The exact cellular and biochemical events that produce these losses of mass and strength are not as well understood. Biopsy is the first experiment to tackle the cellular question in long-term space flight. The data from this experiment will be used to illustrate the structural and metabolic changes that occur within individual muscle fiber cells. This experiment will also help create a model that illustrates to what degree muscles deteriorate in space over time, which can be used to predict risks for long term flight. As the mechanisms of muscle deterioration due to space flight become clearer, scientists can pursue new methods to protect muscles for exploration-length missions.

Earth Applications
As people age on Earth, muscle tissue tends to loose elasticity. The results of this investigation will provide a better understanding of muscle atrophy in the elderly population on Earth.

Edited by mccoy

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Any possible or foreseeable collateral effects of eating reasoned amounts of BCAAs and whey proteins in relation to resistance workouts?

 

My burning question is: how does excess MTOR activation negatively impact longevity and what biomarkers should one monitor so one could make an informed decision in striking the balance one wants between function/healthspan and longevity?

Edited by Todd Allen

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Any possible or foreseeable collateral effects of eating reasoned amounts of BCAAs and whey proteins in relation to resistance workouts?

 

My burning question is: how does excess MTOR activation negatively impact longevity and what biomarkers should one monitor so one could make an informed decision in striking the balance one wants between function/healthspan and longevity?

 

 

I don't know if there are any biomarkers by which to take an informed decision, the little I heard about the issue there should be nothing.

 

Everything is vague probably because there is no specific research However, if more muscle mass= more longevity, within bounds, it is reasonable to believe that eating a moderate amount of protein to increase muscle mass and targeting for such purpose muscle cells mTOR by BCAAs, should provide the desired pro-longevity results without upregulating mTOR in the whole system .

 

Probably the balance would be negative when, to grow muscle mass, we start to eat a lot of AAs (and carbs), significantly more than the muscle tissues and the system can use. the surplus will be sensed as abundance and switch mTOR on. The dosage of pure BCAAs in the form of supplements needed to boost MPs is about one gram every 10 kg of bodyweight (I'm speaking of a supplement with leu/iso/val ratio of 2/1/1 or 4/1/1). Then there is the individual system basic requirement which is an unknown random variable. We can only experiment on ourselves, starting by the most moderate amounts of dietary protein and watching for signs of increasing muscle mass.

 

The various experts, as far as I know, provide a quantitative range of protein intake beyond which the intake may be called 'abundance'. This range is from 0.6 to 1.0 g proteins /kg bodyweight /day and is located around the protein RDA of about 0.8 g/kg/d

 

The pitfall of taking such a range as a reference I wrote abut in another thread, that is, if the minimum individual requirement is a random variable, then 'abundance' for a person may mean 'deficiency' for another.

 

From wiki, it results that BCAAs are oxidized directly into the muscles and other peripheral tissue, bypassing the liver. That's probably the meaning of 'sequestration' of the BCAAs by the muscles.

 

 

While most amino acids are oxidized in the liver, BCAAs are primarily oxidized in the skeletal muscle and other peripheral tissues.[4] The effects of BCAA administration on muscle growth in rat diaphragm was tested, and concluded that not only does a mixture of BCAAs alone have the same effect on growth as a complete mixture of amino acids, but an amino acid mixture with all but BCAAs has no effect on rat diaphragm muscle growth.[15] Administration of either isoleucine or valine alone had no effect on muscle growth, although administration of leucine alone appears to be nearly as effective as the complete mixure of BCAAs. Leucine indirectly activates p70 S6 kinase as well as stimulates assembly of the eIF4F complex, which are essential for mRNA binding in translational initiation.[15] P70 S6 kinase is part of the mammalian target of rapamycin complex (mTOR) signaling pathway, and has been show to allow adaptive hypertrophy and recovery of rat muscle.[16] At rest protein infusion stimulates protein synthesis 30 minutes after start of infusion, and protein synthesis stays elevated for another 90 minutes.[17] Infusion of leucine at rest produces a six hour stimulatory effect and increased protein synthesis by phosphorylation of p70 S6 kinase in skeletal muscles.[17] Following resistance exercise, without BCAA administration, a resistance exercise session does not affect mTOR phosphorylation and even produces a decrease in Akt phosphorylation. Some phosphorylation of p70 S6 kinase was discovered. When BCAAs were administered following a training session, sufficient phosphorylation of p70 S6 kinase and S6 indicated activation of the signaling cascade.[17]
Edited by mccoy

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Exercise, Amino Acids and Aging in the Control of Human Muscle Protein Synthesis

 

The above article contains detailed interpretation on the activation of mTORC in skeletal muscles and the following illustration, where i would appear that mTOR is upregulated by EAAs, IIS and by mechanical stimulation itself. 

post-7347-0-09554300-1483569844_thumb.jpg

Edited by mccoy

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Mccoy, I think you might make a great desciple of Amen Ra

Gordo, he's sure a formidable guy and I believe that, assuming his declaration about a very low caloric intake are true, there might be a simple scientific explanation. I'll post that in the topic on amen Ra.

 

In the meanwhile, I'll take the opportunity to correct some previous statements of mine about vegan strongmen. The few we know about, they can be considered pretty strong:

 

Kendrick Farris: olimpic weightlifter, US team at Rio 2016. From wikipedia: During the Olympic trials on May 8, 2016, Farris broke the U.S record by lifting a total of 831 pounds (377 kg) -- 370 pounds (168 kg) in the snatch and 461 pounds (209 kg) in the clean and jerk.[2] In the 2016 Olympics, Farris finished 11th in the 94 kg weight class, with a 160 kg snatch and 197 kg clean and jerk.[3]

He's an US recordman in his weight category and even if he has not gained a medal at the olypmics he can be regarded as a strongman. Are there stronger non-vegan olympic lifters in his category? Not in the whole USA.

 

Patrick Baboumian: Pro strongman, vegan since 2006. Not among the enormous guys (he's 170 cm, 5'7'' tall) he has a natural genetic expression for brute strength. Has been a powerlifter (steroid-free) with not huge results in the 3 specialties. But as a strongman, he holds the world record of the yoke walk, carrying 560 kg for a 10-meters distance. He's officially a world-class strongman, in the yoke-walk none did better than him, not even meat-eater and on steroids. It is not known if he takes steroids.

 

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It's interesting to listen to Baboumian's diet. To me, it is quite evident that his body is naturally/genetically geared for pure strength. Whatever he eats, providing there are no collateral effects (like the abuse of dairy products which caused intolerance to him) will contribute to his muscle mass. He has no lack of appetite, which will allow him to ingest as many proteins and nutrients as his body requires. He is genetically very tolerant of legumes, which are an excellent source of proteins and macro-micro nutrients.

Since he's not hungry in the morning, he drinks a 1.5 liters (3 pints) smoothie of soy milk +soy proteins and bananas. I would not be able to drink such a humongous smoothie in a whole day. Bottom line, he seems to verify the assumption, previously exposed by gordo, that there is no reason why a vegan diet should prevent physical strength when it is well balanced and in adequate amounts. his fellow strongmen believe he eat meat at night. Probably there are biases and misconceptions in the field and vegan strongmen being such a tiny minority, the bias remains.

 

Once again, we see genetics at work. No way an average guy can hope to reach those feats of titanic strength, steroids or not. 

 

Now, a question might be: can we mimick the genetics of such guys even like we try and mimick the genetics of super centenarians? I believe only to a little extent. 

 

Given the supreme importance of genetics in reaching such extreme performance, I hope the genetics of supercentenarians is easier to mimick than the genetics of strength or of ultra-endurance.

 

Edited by mccoy

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Mccoy, thanks for all the links on leucine/BCAA studies.  It reinforces my hope that my current practices are doing more good than harm.  I'll try boosting my ratio of BCAAs to whey concentrate and see if it boosts my gains.  I had not come across blood flow restriction (BFR training) previously and I need to read more about it.  It looks readily doable and if it boosts hypertrophy without drawbacks I should give it a try.  Have you tried BFR training?

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Todd, no, I never practiced BFR training but it looks interesting in that a moderate loading can yield good hypertrophy while minimizing stress to joints and tendons. It sounds a little artificial though. For now i'll stick to slow or ultra slow training, slowing down the concentric movement and allowing a smaller load to work as a larger one.

I'm still in the rehab phase, where I have to strenghten the rib cage, the shoulder joints and other upper body elements which have weakened after decades of deliberate avoidance of loadings. Interestingly enough, I did not suffer much sarcopenia but the strength level has dropped down significntly anyway. I'm not in a hurry, what counts is that I'm feeling my muscles alive again.

 

re: BCAAs and whey proteins, I'm going to look up the optimization program and dosage given by Dr Filippo Ongaro, who sure has the credentials having been involved in the muscular rehab of astronauts after long term space missions. If done in a reasoned way, probably BCAAs supplementation on workouts will not be harmful.

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From a recent book of Dr Filippo Ongaro: where he suggests the use of both BCAAs and whey proteins isolate.

 

Mixtures of BCAAs, in the ratio 2/1/1 leu/Isoleu/Val are the most studied. They bypass the hepatic pathways and stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

dosage is 3 to 5 grams just before or during workout

 

Whey proteins isolate: immediately after the workout to maximize anabolism and repair. No more than 30 grams .

 

He also suggests:

-creatin (3 to 5 grams) just before workout to increase strength and power.

-HMB (Hydroxil Metil Buttirate) for his anti-catabolic function, 3 grams per day after an heavy workout or before sleep, very useful for the elders

 

I just bought a 4/1/1 BCAAs mixture + B6 (tablets) with a max suggested dosage of 5 grams per day, with the purpose to activate mTOR just after a workout. Actually, as we can see from the metabolic diagram in a previous post, mechanical stimulation itself (resistance exercise) seems to upregulate mTOR itself, so the BCAA just reinforce this signal and maybe put the metabolic balance definitely on the MPS side . They are obtain from a patented fermentation procedure from plant-based sources from the ajinomoto supplier, which is a reliable one. In their site there are some articles on AAs I've yet to read

 

Another source with credentials who spoke on the subject is Dr Attia, he takes 5 grams of pure leucine during the workout, always with the purpose to upregulate mTOR in muscle tissues without upregulating it in the hepatocites and other organs.

Edited by mccoy

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"he drinks a 1.5 liters (3 pints) smoothie of soy milk +soy proteins and bananas"

 

This would definitely deliver a big IGF-1 (and blood sugar) spike.  Definitely not recommended for longevity at least if you buy into the Valter Longo thesis.  Just curious - have you found research that supports the idea of higher IGF-1 levels and longevity?  The best I can recall reading off the top of my head was some possible benefit in elderly adults (there is a protein absorption problem associated with aging, I know Dean has posted about this somewhere on the forum before).  

 

We agree that "respectable" muscle tone & mass is important for longevity, but my own thesis is that one can maintain good muscle tone / muscle mass without high IGF-1, in fact I don't even believe it requires much working out (and anyone that looks like an Olympic power lifter is taking it too far).  But this might all be subjective, based on personal genetics, I suspect it is also dependent on what you did during your ultra high growth youth (teen years) - I was an (American) football player and (local) record breaking sprinter who did quite a lot of weight lifting.  Maybe having built up muscle while young makes it easier to maintain when older?  It would be interesting to see if there are any published studies on this subject...

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Maybe having built up muscle while young makes it easier to maintain when older?  It would be interesting to see if there are any published studies on this subject...

 

From my own anedoctal experience it may seem so. Because of a cronic abdominal inflammation I was compelled not to exercise for 25 years. The cause of the inflammation was unknown. I could only run a little. It went away recently, after a small inguinal hernya occurred. Now with this hernia I find I can train reasonably well and painlessly. Muscle mass did not decrease significantly, strength did though. I previously could make up to 30 chinups, now I can make none. Also, as soon as I try to handle larger loads, various inflammations occur, at the ribcage, at tendons and joints, maybe underlining a general weakening of the musculo-skeletal system. Which I'm going and try to fix now by an adequate training strategy.

 

I've been listening to another podcast from Baboumian (It's among the richie roll podcasts). He drank milk before becoming vegan. He drank an average of 10 liters per day. 2.5 gallons. Such a huge quantity sure sends IGF-1 Stratosphere-high. Also, he says he increased muscle mass and strength after becoming vegan, simply because he got lesser satiety and could eat more macronutrients. I cannot imagine how many beans and cereals and protein powder (pea+rice protein) he eats. My conclusion is that those strongmen must eat hugely to be able to gain the extreme muscle mass needed to perform those herculean exercises and to recover from the exertions. Such extreme behaviour most probably is not favourable to longevity according to all the discussions made in this forum.

Amen Ra is a case on itself, an extreme value or outlier in the distribution of dietary minimum requirement. Even though there might be some unknown bias in the measurements of his calories.

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A couple of well-written reviews on mTOR and muscle tissue hypertrophy:

 

Using Molecular Biology to Maximize Concurrent Training

 

Regulation of mTORC1 by growth factors, energy status, amino acids and mechanical stimuli at a glance

 

keith Baar also compares the effects of endurance versus resistance exercises and possible conflicts.

Basically, endurance exercise does not cause hypertrophy and, by activating AMP-kinase, may prevent MPS if done before resistance exercise.

 

If done mildly or at least 3 hours before resistance training, then there is no adverse effect on MPS

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The following illustration from k. Baar's article is very interesting. Resistance exercise to failure (weight lifting with large weights few reps or smaller weight many reps to failure) activate mechanoreceptors which basically send the same signal as the growth factors (IGF-1 and Insulin):

 

 

 

Together, these data suggest that resistance exercise activates mTORC1 through the activation of an RxRxx-directed kinase that phosphorylates and moves the inhibitor TSC2 away from the lysosome

 

Growth factors activate AKT, which inhibits the TSC complex, which is sort of a hand brake to mTOR. If TSC is moved away from the lysosome by AKt activation, then the Rheb GTPase is free to act as an auxiliary switch to mTOR activation. The other auxiliary switch is the RAg GTPases, which is activated by the presence of intra cellular amminos.

 

Important point: apparently, growth factors are not needed to cause MPS if there is enough of a mechanical stimulus. Resistance exercise bypasses the action of growth factors, directly activating AKt in lieu of IGF-1 insulin.

 

The above fact entails that theoretically it is possible to grow muscles even in a reduced-IGF-1 system, that is, we may practice methionine restriction, have a low IGF-1 and yet grow muscles (providing there is enough energy and amminoacids of course).

 

The growth factors apparently contribute to the baseline MPS, that is they regulate the minimum growth threshold hence the muscle size at balance, without added or subtracted exercise.

Androgens usually have the effect to give a stronger signal to AKt hence amplify the upregulation of mTOR, always in a baseline perspective. Above such a baseline, the mechanoreceptors if stimulated will add more size.

 

 

post-7347-0-01804200-1488747340_thumb.jpg

Edited by mccoy

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So, is it possible to practice caloric restriction and to grow muscle?

 

It depends. I believe that's an issue of fine tuning. Both energy (glucose/glycogen + oxygen) and raw material (leucine and amminoacids) are needed to trigger muscle protein synthesis (MPS).

Amminos have the double role of signalling agents (especially leucine) and building blocks of muscle tissue. 

 

Being able to add a delta (carbs+essential amminos) to a caloric restricted diet may provide enough factors ensuing in MPS, upregulating mTOR in muscle tissues and keeping it downregulated in other tissues.

 

Amminos are derouted to muscles after exercise, so timing is of importance. Muscles also constitute a glucose sink (glycogen is stored in muscles). Besides, energy is burned during exercise.

 

Bottom line:

  • it is very possible to keep muscle mass during moderate CR, providing fine-tuning is applied.
  • It is possible to keep the benefits of an healthy, moderate, even caloric restricted diet and increase muscle size if an additional, but not excessive, amount of carbs and amminos is provided and if eccentric resistance exercises are practiced to failure in the specific muscle groups.
  • It would also be possible to alternate non-CR, mass gaining periods and CR, muscle-ripping periods, even as bodybuilders do. In a deficit, the body will use stored fat as energy and it is possible not to loose mass while loosing excess fat. In a CR context, mass gaining periods should be minimized and CR, muslce-definition periods wshould be maximized.

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About the number of repetitions which optimize MPS, the traditional belief is that low reps (not too low) and high loads (not extreme) tend to maximize MPS. However, recently there has been more attention to the repetitions needed to activate MPS via mTOR signaling, and mTOr appears to be activated either by low reps and higher reps, providing the muscles are taken to failure. 

 

I'm presently trying this strategy, since I find that high loadings impinge too much on connective tissues and joints in my case.

 

In the past, I usually grew mass with no problems, doing 6-7 reps and increasing the loadings until hitting a plateau a few weeks later. Presently, that causes the occurrance of various aches and prevents me to proceed further.

 

I'm going to see what happens, I'm doing now in the region of 10-20 reps, taking the muscles to failure with many sets, often more than 10, for a total of up to 200 reps and over.

 

Nutrition-wise, I'll just see to it that I take more protein after the workout and the successive day, if there is enough hunger.

Edited by mccoy

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I'm currently making excellent gains in strength and muscle mass by focusing on minimizing exercise volume and fatigue and maximizing intensity. My favorite exercise currently is swimming as that is where I can consistently push myself to the greatest extreme without getting hurt.

 

When I swim I start with a few minutes of warm up remaining stationary but visualizing in my head the stroke I'm going to do and visiting each of the muscles I'll be using with a brief flex/activation with minimal movement while breathing very deeply almost hyper-ventilating to the point of dizziness. And then I swim a single length of the pool as explosively hard as I can manage trying to find any muscle that isn't firing as hard as possible and trying to push it harder.

 

I'll repeat this about 5 or 6 times selecting a different stroke for each length with a total workout time of roughly 20 minutes and maybe 3 minutes of actual exercise. I think I could sustain doing this daily but I've only been doing it 3 times per week. On the other days I do walking, running, cycling, stair climbing or weight training. I do each of those trying to minimize volume and fatigue while maximizing intensity with a few widely spaced very brief all out efforts. And I get a cardio workout every night by taking an extremely hot bath.

 

As for diet I've been attempting to alternate weekly between a Longo inspired almost fast of about 350-700 calories per day restricting both carbs and protein to less than 20 grams each eating raw greens with evoo and sometimes a little avocado and drinking green tea with coconut oil when I'm dragging. Followed by a week of eating to satiety adding in nuts & seeds, fish, offal and animal fats and 3 or 4 eggs per day plus a whey protein drink sometimes with kefir and fruit just before bed. My weight has been stuck in a range from 135 to 145 lbs for the past few months but according to my skin fold calipers I am still losing body fat at a rate between 1 and 2 lbs per month. My physical performance wanes modestly during my fasting week but my best gains occur on days 2 through 4 of my feasting week.

 

I've transitioned to these approaches to exercise and diet trying to optimize body composition and performance. Longevity has not been a focus though I've gone from desperately unhealthy to good health and it appears I've dramatically decreased my immediate risk of death from stroke and pneumonia the leading causes of death of men of my age with my disease.

 

I don't know if this approach would be good for others but for myself with a genetic wasting disease with no known treatment I am thrilled to find that after 11 months of focused effort to regain health that not only have performance gains not tapered off or regressed but are continuing at an excellent (for me) pace. I somewhat miss the easy rapid weight loss of the first few months but now that I'm finally below 20% body fat I'm ok with the thought that it might be another year or more to get below 10%.

Edited by Todd Allen

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Todd, not getting hurt, I concur that's the password. I too had to organize my workouts in such a manner to avoid inflammations to tendons and ligaments, which can set me back for days or weeks.

 

Actually, water is very good for exhertions since it puts an upper threshold to the muscle loading, given by water shear resistance, and allows you to adjust intensity within that range plus speed and recovery.

 

It's very interesting to hear your nutrition strategy of alternate weeks, longo-like FMd + ad libitum refeeding, actually that's a pretty strict strategy since Longo advises his FMD no more frequently than once per month as I remember, or just during chemio cycles for those who are treating cancer.

 

I'm glad though to hear it's working, your case is pretty specific.

 

Presently, I do limited weightlifting at home and stop at whatever loading I feel it's safe (small loadings now) and then proceed to do as many sets of as many reps are necessary to reach muscle failure = exhaustion. If I start feeling some small aches, I decrease the load and eventually terminate that exercise immediately. I take as much time as needed, total reps up to 250 for a specific exercise, with an aim to increase that if I cannot increase loading. So far the muscles get sore and that's a good sign, size increased noticeably in the lower body, not so much in the upper body.  Probably, this is still rehab time for me and it is anyway gratyfing to be able to feel tired after a workout.

Edited by mccoy

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Mccoy, you are right, the 700 calories/day CR biweekly is probably too challenging for me to sustain indefinitely.  The performance gains I've been experiencing since incorporating fasting and transitioning to low volume high intensity exercise have motivated me to keep pushing to accelerate the gains.  Water fasting would lead to my Raynaud's syndrome flaring after 2 to 3 days and adding in the calories has kept it just doable with respect to coldness, lethargy and the Raynaud's although it sometimes makes hunger worse than not eating at all.

 

Here's a teaser of a mouse study showing a keto diet improves lifespan and slows muscle loss of aging.

http://aups.org.au/Proceedings/47/6P/6P.pdf

 

Maybe they should do a follow up incorporating some feast/fast cycling?  And maybe test short bursts of high intensity exercise by having a cat chase them once in a while? 

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Guest Cory Brooks

Science Daily has an article about retarding the loss of telomeres.  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170510115211.htm

 

The study found "that people who have consistently high levels of physical activity have significantly longer telomeres than those who have sedentary lifestyles, as well as those who are moderately active."

 

"adults with high physical activity levels have telomeres with a biological aging advantage of nine years over those who are sedentary, and a seven-year advantage compared to those who are moderately active. To be highly active, women had to engage in 30 minutes of jogging per day (40 minutes for men), five days a week."

 

"also found there was no significant difference in telomere length between those with low or moderate physical activity and the sedentary people."

[surprising there was no dose-response relationship]

 

"said it may be tied to inflammation and oxidative stress. Previous studies have shown telomere length is closely related to those two factors and it is known that exercise can suppress inflammation and oxidative stress over time."

 

Cory

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'Since circulating leucine and BCAAs are probably sequestered by the muscle tissue before they can hit the organs, it might be possible theoretically to hack the body into growing muscles and keeping the other organs in the repair and maintenance mode. By which biomarker to make sure of that I don't know though.'

 

How do you feel about supplementing BCAAs? I see people at the gym doing it all the time.

 

Sorry I did not see that there are multiple pages on this issue that I missed - I will read those for an answer.

Edited by nmonaco

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'Since circulating leucine and BCAAs are probably sequestered by the muscle tissue before they can hit the organs, it might be possible theoretically to hack the body into growing muscles and keeping the other organs in the repair and maintenance mode. By which biomarker to make sure of that I don't know though.'

 

How do you feel about supplementing BCAAs? I see people at the gym doing it all the time.

 

nmonaco, I just tried those BCAAs a few times, then discontinued for two reasons:

  1. My present level of intensity is not such to make those BCAAs really useful
  2. I have a basic distrust for everything which is not natural food

Now, if I suffered sarcopenia or I had difficulties to recoup muscle mass after an injury or a starvation period or so on, use of BCAAS might be justified.

 

On the other side, a moderate use exclusively when needed (during intense workouts 2-3 times a week max) probably is not going to hurt. The way many people use it though, it may cause chronic amplification of mTOR activity in organs and tissues other than skeletal muscle. Which could help cancer cells to proliferate.

 

Competitive bodybuilding is another game, but those guys are living laboratories and do any manner of unnatural and dangerous stuff. They stuff their faces with food and protein, they use steroids, they use GH, insulin and IGF-1, they use and abuse all kinds of supplements, they use diuretics before contexts and some times suffer renal blocks on stage or just before. They continuosly abuse their bodies.That kind of stuff sure does not ensure any longevity nor healthspan...

Natural bodybuilders often do the same as above, taking everything legal and just stopping use of illegal enhancers a few months before contexts. Or they have other strategies to pass a very basic drug test.

Real natural bodybuilders are the smallest of the lot and usually will never win a context.

 

Sorry for ranting. In your case, since I gather you are practicing strict CR, BCAAs, used exclusively just before main resistance workouts are probably good. followed by a couple of days of more protein than usual. 

 

If your target is manteinance good, if your target is bulking, I'm not sure CR is going to allow that. If wanting to bulk, I'd rather follow cycles of abundant healthy eating followed by CR, a little like competitive bodybuilders do, but in a less extreme way. Bodybuilders on steroids are able to condition = loose bodyfat without loosing much muscle mass. Natural bodybuilders who do not cheat usually loose way more muscle when conditioning. Conditioning is a form of CR, sometimes not so healthy CR.

 

At present I'm unfortunately unable to experiment all the above on myself, since I suffer nagging pains from past surgery and my rehab is very, very slow.

Edited by mccoy

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