Jump to content
randyf

New paper on Longo's Fasting-mimicking diet

Recommended Posts

For the those interested in Fasting, Longo's got a new paper out.

http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/9/377/eaai8700.full

 

I"ve followed the discussions on fasting on this group for over a decade now.

Seems Longo has discovered some unique aspects for his regime.

 

Regards

Randy 

 

 

  • 0
  •  
  • 2
RESEARCH ARTICLEMETABOLIC DISEASE
 
Fasting-mimicking diet and markers/risk factors for aging, diabetes, cancer, and cardiovascular disease

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Randyf, danielovich has already broken the news in another thread, I read it rather quickly and it appears to be an evolution of the previous pilot clinical trial with less individuals.

Have you spotted any significant changes in the results? To me it just seemed a validation of the previous results, more sample numerosity, more statistically representative. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Randyf, danielovich has already broken the news in another thread, I read it rather quickly and it appears to be an evolution of the previous pilot clinical trial with less individuals.

Have you spotted any significant changes in the results? To me it just seemed a validation of the previous results, more sample numerosity, more statistically representative. 

These results were  obtained in the context of a Phase 2 FDA study. Phase 3 is next and then this protocol can be officially sanctioned and prescribed by physicians (probably using ProLons food packets). First time I know of that this or any other variant of CR would make it into the mainstream. 

 

Couple of notes:

1. You don't need the Prolon packets to do this at home. Seems to be a 10%45%45% (P,C,F) vegan diet scheme of ~ 600 - 775 KCAL for 4 or 5 days.

 

2. This scheme, FMD, seems to do unique very positive things. And it might also Not do some postive unique things the traditional CR does??

 

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

randyf, you are right in that it's a vegan scheme of 10%45%45% (P,C,F), but the first day is a little different (more fats).

 

1st day: 1100 kcal , 10%55%35% (P,C,F)

2nd to 5th day: 750 kCal, 10%45%45% (P,C,F)

 

Also, the calories are in function of the bodyweight. The above values are a referebce for about 70 kg BW.

Also, pls note kcal/kg/day decrease when bodyweight increases.

 

I built a table which approximates the calories to bodyweights.

post-7347-0-25839000-1487960516_thumb.png

Edited by mccoy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

randyf, you are right in that it's a vegan scheme of 10%45%45% (P,C,F), but the first day is a little different (more fats).

 

1st day: 1100 kcal , 10%55%35% (P,C,F)

2nd to 5th day: 750 kCal, 10%45%45% (P,C,F)

 

Also, the calories are in function of the bodyweight. The above values are a referebce for about 70 kg BW.

Also, pls note kcal/kg/day decrease when bodyweight increases.

 

I built a table which approximates the calories to bodyweights.

attachicon.gifFMD3.PNG

Thanks for those details.

As for me, when I'll do it (if I do it), I'll skip the higher calorie day and go straight to 5 days of lower calorie intake.

 

My understanding (and correct me if I'm mistaken) is that the food portion is solely to make this process less painful without (much?) reduction in benefit. The calories don't add any benefits it just does't subtract too much. A straight fast would as good or better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

As for me, when I'll do it (if I do it), I'll skip the higher calorie day and go straight to 5 days of lower calorie intake.

 

My understanding (and correct me if I'm mistaken) is that the food portion is solely to make this process less painful without (much?) reduction in benefit. The calories don't add any benefits it just does't subtract too much. A straight fast would as good or better.

 

Actually, yesterday I started another FMD and I just could not reach the allotted 1100 calories. At 850 I felt so full I couldn't eat any longer. Previous time, ditto.

 

Yes the concept is that you have the benefits of a fast without fasting. A 5-days water only fast, undertaken with regularity, would discourage most people, me included. Of course, you loose some benefits like total rest of the digestive system. The metabolic and regenerative effects are allegedly similar though.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

randyf:   As for me, when I'll do it (if I do it), I'll skip the higher calorie day and go straight to 5 days of lower calorie intake."

I prefer  fresh  juice fasting w/  primarily (diluted) vegetable juices,  possibly with added  "greens"/"superfoods" powders. 

 

I'm skeptical of the benefits of fasting without fasting concept, but I understand the practical and mainstream-medical motivations for it. 

Edited by Sibiriak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On another thread I posted the content of the Prolon package, from Victoria Lambert  of the Telegraph  

 

 

 

Four tiny, Alice in Wonderland-style bottles of energy drink mix. Six meagre raw nut bars – each about the size of a two-finger KitKat. Thick brown paper pouches of ominous-looking kale “chips”. Vitamin tablets. Capsules of oil. Herbal tea bags. Plus 10 sachets of scientifically designed instant soup. The box containing my prototype copy of the new five-day Fasting Mimicking Diet (FMD) – which arrived from southern California last week – was all Interstellar meets Gwyneth Paltrow. To be frank, I’ve seen more appetising sacks of guinea-pig food.

 

Main ingredients:

  1. Vegetable soups (flavours: tomato, mushroom, pumpkin)
  2. Nut bars - mostly macadamia and cashews
  3. Kale chips
  4. Herbal teas
  5. Energy drink

Cereals and potatoes apparently are no part of the game.

 

It turns out that the food choice I adopted (vegetables, non-starchy and semi-starchy+nuts+EVOO+mushrooms) is very close to the package content (which has been probably fed to subjects during the clinical trials).

 

The diet rules out coffee and green/black tea. Just herbal teas, as far as I could see. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

randyf:   As for me, when I'll do it (if I do it), I'll skip the higher calorie day and go straight to 5 days of lower calorie intake."

I prefer  fresh  juice fasting w/  primarily (diluted) vegetable juices,  possibly with added  "greens"/"superfoods" powders. 

 

I'm skeptical of the benefits of fasting without fasting concept, but I understand the practical and mainstream-medical motivations for it. 

 

 

Sibiriak, vegetable juices might add up to similar caloric content with good micronutrients ratio. My hint is that if calories are within the Longo's threshold, it's going to be all right, providing sugars are not too high. If you juice many carrots, for example, the sugar content may be such to bring about a significant insulin signal, which is what we don't want in a fast. But I noticed you wrote 'diluted' vegetable juices... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@mccoy

 

The kind of juice fasts I have done,  based on standard approaches  1)  had  less calories than Longo's FMD,  limited to 3- 4 glasses /day; 2)  had little fat, protein or fiber;   3)avoided too many carrots ( a much-discussed pitfall);   4)used water-diluted juices  to keep calories/sugar lower;  5) were  accompanied with enemas if extended (forgot to mention that previously.)

Edited by Sibiriak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mechanism, it's simple to observe that Blenkinsopp's 2 avocados diet does not meet the macros criteria of Longo's FMD. Ratios are 70-23-6 instead of 45-45-5.

Some avocado together with vegetables is all right though.

 

On the other side, from the purely mechanistic POV, the 2-avocados diet might serve the same function as the rigorous Longo's diet, since mTOR is neutral to fats and lowering the amminos and insulin signal is a guarantee of a downregulated mTOR. There might be other pathways which are at work though. Longo's proportions are fruit of an optimization of satiety and results.

 

post-7347-0-21316200-1488057015_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First time poster here, registered thanks to this thread but looks like I will find lots of interest.

 

I have also practiced and written about a Do It Yourself and whole foods approach to the Fasting Mimicking Diet. I have also tracked my results and shared these within a discussion post and a DIY template intended for others to use to plan their own FMD.

 

FMD DIY Guide + Google Sheets Template (open access)

http://foreverfreefrom.com/fasting-mimicking-diet-guide/

 

FMD Results & Reflections
http://foreverfreefrom.com/fasting-mimicking-diet-results/

 

Mechanism, it's simple to observe that Blenkinsopp's 2 avocados diet does not meet the macros criteria of Longo's FMD. Ratios are 70-23-6 instead of 45-45-5.

Some avocado together with vegetables is all right though.

 

On the other side, from the purely mechanistic POV, the 2-avocados diet might serve the same function as the rigorous Longo's diet, since mTOR is neutral to fats and lowering the amminos and insulin signal is a guarantee of a down regulated mTOR. There might be other pathways which are at work though. Longo's proportions are fruit of an optimization of satiety and results.

 

I agree McCoy completley, the way I see it, it is not necessarily match the precise FMD macronutrient ratios but rather:

1) limit total calories to less than or equal to the numbers in his study ( with somewhat higher calories for the first day compared to the other four days).

And

2) to limit total protein and carbs ( and glycemic load ) to less than or equal to his figures.

As you aptly point out, lipids are neutral with regard to impact on nutrient sensing inflammatory pathways ( though I would stay away from more saturated fat which has its own inflammatory cascade issues) and it is fairly safe and probably more conservative to up the % lipid proportion relative to those in his published FMD protocol.

 

I was inspired by the Quantified Body FMD podcast but also observed that the 'Avocado' approach had very, very different macros and micros to the FMD used in trials by Longo and the ProLon package. I do share the opinion that both the protein and carbohydrate macros can probably be reduced from the FMD baselines, and fat increased, and the same or similar outcomes achieved. By contrast exceeding the protein and carbohydrate macros would at the least threaten progress into nutritional ketosis and remaining there once reached.

I am confident my carbohydrate macro was too high on my first FMD cycle despite following the prescribed ratios. I still got some pleasing results from my first cycle. These may have been better had I reduced the carbs and increased fats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ben, you've sure devoted some time to the FMD issue!

 

I personally plan the FMD cycles with cronometer, only rarely I missed the target.  As you say, including some veggies like spinach and broccoli will almost surely take you beyond the protein threshold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The study included 21 obese volunteers. The average age was 52 years, average body mass index (BMI) was 37 kg/m2, and six were men. Participants consumed a very low calorie diet of 600 to 800 kcal per day for eight weeks.

 

Mikeccolella, yes, I'd avoid extending Longo's 4-5 day fast into eight weeks.

Edited by Sibiriak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180202123836.htm

 

This gives me pause in trying the Longo fasting diet. I had suspicions and this pushes me in a direction to not doing it.

 

The side effects cited in that study are valid for obese people with an heart condition, at the end of the 1st week of dieting. 

 

They might also generally apply to people with cardiac problems. 

 

The context suggests that thin people with no cardiac issues should suffer no collateral effects related to the cardiac muscle.

 

Of course the study also would beg for heart checks before doing an FMD, which only lasts 5 days though and not one week or more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180202123836.htm

 

This gives me pause in trying the Longo fasting diet. I had suspicions and this pushes me in a direction to not doing it.

 

The side effects cited in that study are valid for obese people with an heart condition, at the end of the 1st week of dieting. 

 

Indeed, the data shows a return to baseline when they did the follow-up measurements:

"By eight weeks, heart fat content and function had improved beyond what they had been before the diet began and all other measurements including body fat and cholesterol were continuing to improve.

 

Dr Rayner said: "The metabolic improvements with a very low calorie diet, such as a reduction in liver fat and reversal of diabetes, would be expected to improve heart function. Instead, heart function got worse in the first week before starting to improve."

 

 

Unfortunately they only did measurements at 0, 1, and 8 weeks so there's no way of knowing how long it took for the cardiac fat content to return to normal. I'd guess this is related to the transiently altered nutrient metabolism and lipid trafficking as the body transitions to relying more on fat oxidation. If so, the changes probably normalize by two weeks. I'm also curious how physical activity would influence the outcomes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×