Low Carb High Fat Diet

[Burak]

[Admin Note: New discussion area for LCHF (low carb high fat) and Keto diets, shifted here from the Cold Exposure thread where there was an interesting video posted about the link between a keto diet and brown fat - DP].

 

 

Excluding special cases, I don't see any benefit by ketogenic diet on the long term. In short term and in not so healthy people, it can do wonders. However, since it is not a natural state of the body, it has some side effects and not sustainable in the long term without damaging your metabolism. No matter what you do, your blood glucose levels will be kept within some interval and you will always burn glucose for fuel other than fat. You can also get this effect by eating low GI whole foods (even whole grains cooked al dante or boiled&cooled potatoes do not result in glucose spikes, well at least for me) in a time restricted manner (12h-12h) and with some CE and active BATs.

 

As Valter Longo says, you cannot take happiness away from people, and as I can see ketogenic diet is both infeasible and unpalatable for the standard population, especially if there is even better alternatives.

[Todd Allen]

Burak, www.ketogenicforums.com grew to 4500 users and over 3000 topics in its first 2 months of its existence.  A significant number of people claim to have been following a keto diet in one form or another since the Atkins craze and I expect there are more people practicing keto for more years than have practiced CR.  I haven't seen any evidence to support your assertions that it is unnatural, unhealthy or unsustainable.  While there are examples of people who have done poorly eating keto, typically by consuming excessive protein or inadequate salts, to generalize that to everything keto makes as much sense as condemning all of CR because some do it wrong and fail to get adequate nutrition.  I think most people go keto simply to lose weight, but there are sick people using it to treat a great variety of illnesses such as diabetes, cancer, heart disease, liver disease, neurological diseases, multiple sclerosis, pretty much all the chronic diseases of aging with a metabolic component and there are also healthy athletes going keto to improve performance.

[mccoy]

My feeling is that ketogenic diet is an extreme regime, not easily sustainable on the long term, to be adopted ideally in extreme cases. Although here we are in a context of personal proclivities. It may sound as a challenge to some, it may make happy others who don't like sweet foods, it may happy others who manage to loose weight.

Also, it may make happy people who feel they can try and do something against a sickness.

 

Sometimes a ketogenic diet is just a leg of a longer journey. Dr. Peter Attia lost his visceral fat with a ketogenic diet, then abandobed it for a more moderate one.

He also reports that some of his patients on a ketogenic diet exhibited an horrible lipids profile. Not everyone can tolerate those high amounts of saturated fats. Probably switching to monunsaturated improves things.

 

Todd, how many grams of carbs you eat daily to remain in ketosis? 

[Gordo]

Don't want this thread to go off topic, can admin please move this ketogenic stuff to its own thread?

http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/ffl/newsletter/ketogenic-diets-fact-or-fad

 

Todd, if you just dumped the meat and cheese your diet would be perfect ;)

[Todd Allen]

Gordo, it would be nice if "reputable science" didn't include utter bullshit such as attempting to link ketogenic eating to metabolic acidosis. Metabolic acidosis is a condition of type 1 diabetics. The ketone levels of people deep in fasting or advanced starvation are 1/10th that seen in metabolic acidosis. And the level of ketones in a ketogenic diet are typically 1/10th to 1/2 that seen in starvation. The rest of the article was nearly as bad.

[Todd Allen]

Todd, how many grams of carbs you eat daily to remain in ketosis?

 

Due to the high cost of blood ketone test strips I don't test throughout the day nor do I worry to stay continuously in ketosis 24/7. My rough target has been a morning ketone reading between 0.5 mmol/L and 1.5 mmol/L. When I started testing last August I had to restrict to 20 to 30 grams net carbs (carbs minus fiber) daily but it has been increasing and lately I've been consistently hitting goal even at 50 grams net carbs (which can be nearly 100 grams total carbs since my carbs are high fiber) and up to 65 grams of protein.

 

The statements that eating this way is unsustainable, unpalatable or unhealthy are not well informed. I have been enjoying my meals as much as ever. I don't have cravings for the bread, pasta, fruit juices, sweetened granola, sweetened low fat yogurt and other crap I used to eat thinking it was healthy. I miss slightly more the bananas, apples, pears and other low quality fruit I used to eat to excess but still enjoy a wide variety of berries, lemons, limes and other low carb fruit in moderation.

 

A typical meal now is a large salad of fresh greens, mushrooms, onion and salad fruits in moderation (tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, etc.) topped with nuts, seeds, avocado, eggs, fish such as sardines or smoked salmon, organ meats such as liver pate, a good cheese and a dressing made with mustard, ground flax, chia seeds, herbs, spices, a vinegar and evoo. Most anyone looking at my salad bowl would see it is full of healthful foods and only if they are really closely paying attention would they even realize that the macro ratio is roughly 70% fat and 15% each protein and carbs.

 

A typical salad such as served in fast food restaurant across America, chopped iceberg lettuce and a little red cabbage and grated american cheese with a dressing primarily of soybean oil and high fructose corn syrup also gets most of it calories from fat. And switching to a low-fat dressing with more sugar does not make it healthier. The problem isn't that their salad is high in fat, the problem is that it is high in crap.