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Calorie restrict for ethics and faith.


AmyCort

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Hi I am more into calorie restriction as part of my ethics and faith i believe in , less for longer life but I realize it also does help you live longer.  I have renewed membership to this society recently.  I am more into the practice to prevent waste, avoid gluttony and those reasons. Also many old philosophers I have studied talked about temperance and the benefit of low calorie diets. I also know low calorie diets used to be praised for ethics apart from long life. Abraham Lincoln for one was said to be light eater and drinker, and was viewed highly for these reasons he was viewed as more ethical for these reasons. i am mainly interested in the ethical side both of temperance and overall stewardship of low calorie diets, often they lead to longer life but many other things can happen in life and no one knows their death time. I am mindful that you need a minimum for nutrition and feel that low calorie diets can be taken too far and harm the body and even result in early death, if proper nutrition and basic calorie needs are not meet.  I appreciate living longer for low calorie diet, but my prime goal is one of ethics and moral.

 

Amy

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As far as my history I use to have an eating disorder both anorexia and bulimia. I consider myself an eating disorder success story, putting that almost completely behind me pressing forward toward a better diet.  I no longer feel that I would rather be fat than dead. Many in the past tried to fear me with starvation mode i believe it is myth the way they taught it, either way today i say i would rather be fat than overeat.  Anyhow I am trying to restrict calories even more now i was around 2000 on none fast days, i usually do about two fast days a week i do take some diet soda and about a glass of juice often with vitamins. On sometimes I work i eat after work a normal meal of about 400 or 500 calories because i work in manufacturing and use a lot of calories at least that was today i did that fasted until about 3:00 AM I work 3:00 PM to 1:30 AM.  Anyhow I would not care to fast more than two days a week and feel no one should. For me rules on fast are very strict ethical and as a result of my faith no more than 2 fast day s week, no longer than a a day outside of church fast no longer than 3 days outside of divine calling from God.  Most fast in the bible where a day, one three day fast was a group where a leader could have pulled someone aside and asked them for health to go off the fast. I believe in fasting for the digestive rest not toxin release. I am mostly against long toxin release diets or fast, going without protein for 3 weeks is extremely dangerous even if a gallon of juice is taken it is usually not wise.  Fasting benefits by digestive rest the body is already good at adapting to digestive rest. The three 40 day fast in the Bible where a divine calling, moses called up to mountain the glory of God surrounded him, Eljiah visted by an angel, Jesus called out by the holy ghost to the wilderness to fast and pray and be tempted for a time. Most fast where simply a day long in the Bible usually 6 to 6. I feel i get the best consecrations to God by a one day waking to waking fast and don't think one glass of juice a bit of diet soda will break my fast.

 

As far as me i am for 3 solid meals most days, balanced, but lower sensible meals, I view more meals as possibly leading to certain types of cancer like colon. Less meals as possibly leading to metabolic syndromes and diabetes.

 

As far as calories I was eating 2000 to 2400 usually on none fast days in recent times. I do want to lower it to about 1400 to 2000. I want a daily average total of 1000 minimum if it is to low I plan to go up. As far as weight I am around 85 pounds usually at around 5'3. To prevent losing to much weight I remain hopeful that lifting light weights at times weekly will prevent too much weight lose, and help me maintain muscle. My goal is to decrease calories and maintain a certain amount of weight, I think weight lifting may prove successful. I do want to say i am usually against lifting heavy weights, but modest weights should prove helpful to many, who want to keep bone strong on a low calorie diet and prevent too much weight lose I remain hopeful but no long term studies on weight lifting for preventing underweight from losing more on low cal diets have happened yet.  For overweight even on 800 calories when they lift they lose more and prevent their metabolism from slowing down. I think women need a minimum of 1000 calories daily, 1500 for men going up as needed based on needs if anything harmful happens. 

 

Amy

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Daniel, want on a 3 week fast and yet consumed food and sufficient calories in way to maintain himself. His fast is the second longest in the Bible. I feel he did not fast with no food because he did not have divine calling yet there was a need so he supplemented and modified it a bit for God.  After 21 days he was approached by an angel but not approached or called prior to his fast. The Angel said sense the first day he was set apart for God his prayers where heard, but spirtual warfare was battled for 21 days so the time was waiting with the fasting and prayer which caused things to break down and good things to happen.

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Hello, and welcome, Amy!

 

We have several members who practice CR at least partly for ethical reasons, some much like yours. One person once wrote me that if she were going to live a very long life, she would want to reduce her "footprint" on the planet, which she was doing by nearly half (she started out eating much more than avg.).

 

Brian

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As far as weight I am around 85 pounds usually at around 5'3. To prevent losing to much weight I remain hopeful that lifting light weights at times weekly will prevent too much weight lose, and help me maintain muscle. My goal is to decrease calories and maintain a certain amount of weight, I think weight lifting may prove successful. I do want to say i am usually against lifting heavy weights, but modest weights should prove helpful to many, who want to keep bone strong on a low calorie diet and prevent too much weight lose I remain hopeful but no long term studies on weight lifting for preventing underweight from losing more on low cal diets have happened yet.  For overweight even on 800 calories when they lift they lose more and prevent their metabolism from slowing down. I think women need a minimum of 1000 calories daily, 1500 for men going up as needed based on needs if anything harmful happens. 

 

Welcome Amy, from the numbers you provide you exhibit a BMI of 15.1, which appears extremely low, probably a lower bound even in a group of Caloric restriction practitioners.

Why to decrease calories further? I agree that overindulgence may  be regarded as unethical, but underindulgence may be regarded as unethical too since it would constitute a sin of omission → omission to properly feed and care for the body. I don't know if you thought about consulting with a minister of your church about that.

 

I've tried lifting weights to maintain muscle mass during drastic caloric restriction but it doesn't work. At least, you must provide some extra proteins and some extra energy substrate to metabolize the protein. Otherwise you are just starving your body even more. Which does not appear ethical to me.

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Regarding Daniel, he definitely didn't abstain from food, but he did do a plant based diet:

 

This topic is of great interest to me (the ethics part of food consumption).  There are many angles to consider.  Certainly I agree that being a glutton is bad for many reasons including the health consequences.  But is it more ethical to be a 15 BMI than a 20BMI?  I'm not convinced of that.  I know there are those here that think the extreme low BMI is healthy if done right, but I don't see it and I agree with McCoy that it is unethical to mistreat your body.  

 

You could argue that your slightly lower calorie intake (maybe 200-300 calories a day?) means freeing up resources for other people or wildlife habitat, etc.  Certainly that argument could be made, but currently from what I've read, there isn't a food shortage today, but there likely will eventually be (which is why we need as much CO2 in our atmosphere as possible but that's yet another tangent).  Then you have to consider burden to society and family from health related problems associated with BMI - this could apply to both ends of the spectrum (the obese, as well as the underweight - for example you mentioned anorexia, the cost of eating disorders is very high).  You also have to consider mental health, and are you as productive at the extreme ends (both ways) of the BMI scale?  This may be specific to individuals.  Is it "less ethical" to be less productive?  Probably, I guess it depends on how you spend your time.  

 

I think perhaps much more importantly than the number of calories is the content of calories - the old meat vs. plants debate.  If you want to get Biblical -- then looking at Genesis, you see that when the world was created, humans were vegetarians, it was only after "the fall" that animals were killed.  I think it's also quite noteworthy that not only the first book, but the last book of the Bible (Revelation) describes the future "new earth" paradise which is strictly plant based diet way of life not only for humans but animals too!  It specifically says there will be no death (or crying, or pain), and the wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.  It describes a tree that will produce new fruit every month, and humans will eat of that fruit, it also describes the tree of life, which bares twelve types of fruit, with yields every month (and the leaves of the tree for the healing of the nations).

 

There are the ethical considerations with modern animal factory farming (plenty of documentaries document those problems), and also the comparisons of land/habit use/destruction based on animals vs plants (something that is not always completely cut and dry).  Basically it takes about 2 pounds of grain to produce one pound of chicken meat, about 4 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of pork, and about 8 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of beef. On top of those stats, lean young veal may be as much as 80% water, and fully fattened beef may be about 50% water.  I've seen arguments that cows graze where crops can't be grown, but I really don't see that as a legit argument.  I know a farmer that grows grain on some of the worst, rocky, hilly, land you've ever seen, if cows can graze it, you can grow crops on it.  Even if its not considered "tillable" if its producing enough for cows to graze, why couldn't you plant fruit trees (an orchard) on it? Meat seems like a terribly inefficient way to get calories FAR more important than just the number of calories a person eats.  There is also the local vs. shipped around the world aspect of all this but that too is no simple matter.

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Oddly,

Enough I do have concerns about my low BMI my brother who never had an eating disorder has a BMI of 19 however or around it but he would hate me for sharing it.  As far as my BMi i feel unable to gain even eatiing 2500 to 5000 for over a month a half I stayed between 85 and 93 pounds. If I eat over much more than 2500 I will get full and get the flu. I honestly can't gain weight no matter how much i eat. My metablism has been speeding up with age.  I was off psych meds and found it hard to fast for God off them. As far as low BMI's most doctors admit according to college testbook I read in college that underweight is not a problem apart from anorexia, overweight comes with health risk.  I was eating over 3000 a few days but was so full I nearly could not do much and felt discomfort i got up to 93, but when i restricted to 2500 to 2800 in three days I dropped down to 85 it worked about like that. currently on psych medication I feel it is better, i don't crave food as much, my weight seems more stable, and I don't gain as much. I wouuld love to weigh 100 and eat about 1000 to 1500 calories a day but I can't conquer that. Not everyone believes low BMI's are bad some believe it is simply about getting in 1000, I am unlikely to lose to much on 1000 so long as I am on my psych medication, off it I will gain.  As Abraham Lincoln most where normal weight in his day he was set apart maybe not for weight but he was thin for being a light eater, meaning he ate much less than the average 2000 calories and has been praised for it. Society seems to be all about gluttony, BMI is not fully accurate either everyone is different. Even teh calorie restrction society believes in teh body weight set poin theory they state it is good to lower yours by about 10 percent which I already have done, unfortionately I suspect an underlying health problem not calorie restriction to be the cause. No one will believe me, and no one in the psych field would care to treat my eating disorder i have not been recommend fro eating disorder treatment in years despite multiply hospital stays do to voices and things like that.  The attack fasting I feel the psych field is attacking my religion they don't care if I lose weight they simply hate me fasting because it is part of my religion, they never would give me eating disorder treatment if asked they would not beleive me. My highest weight was 112 no one would believe this, I weighed it about twice, it only made one doctor record and no one can see it because this record is sealed no one has excess, no one know the weight not even my paretns I was weighed backwards I know i weighed around 110 i was I forgot how old maybe 15 or 16 but over eating binging without purging. 

 

My natural body weight set point use to be between 100 and 110, now I can hardly maintain 90 even eating tons of calories. If I truly was legit and calorie restriced consistently CR doctors would say i did good, however it seems my situation is medical but no one will believe me.

 

Most doctors today may assume my body weight set point is 90 my most frequent weigh in weight was 90 I usually weighed it when restricting or binging and purging. Today I do none of that is assumed by all i am naturally thin today, when i drop below 80 some concern but no situation is taken. Well they attempt to forbid my diet soda in treatment at a weight of about 85 pounds o even less i was put on no watch to ensure i was not vomiting, prior to this I passed out well driving luckly nothing happened. I believe no one believed i passed out they thought i was psychotic was a wrecklass driver and lied about pacing out. In treatment my heart right consistently measured at 150 but no concern was expressed it was blamed on soda. They did not believe passing out and believed i was no vomiting up food with my history with all the evidence point to me vomiting besides perfect blood work, but heart rate pacing out which they did not believe. Everything was blamed on soda. I have cut back on soda sense.

 

Amy

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of coarse I have no idea how to explain my symptoms or average calorie total to a doctor they are never consistent. I have eaten nearly close to 5000 at time those days I may gain 2 pounds but be very full. Eating 2500 to 2800 once I want from 93 to 85 in about 3 days.  As far as normal I have no idea how to explain calories although i count them they are never consistent, it is rare on none fast days for me eat under 2000. I usually eat between 2000 and 3000 and don't get over flu and have enough energy. I would love to eat less and practice calorie restriction. The society for the most part oddly enough goes more with body weight set point than BMI and recommends losing weight from your body weight set point.  Everyone's build is also different. I am very strong but off medication I have muscle weakness. I have plenty of fat on my body truly not an eating disorder talking and I also have plenty of muscle. I have a good portion of muscle for my low frame you can't tell in pictures. At my old job I was called skinny mini muscle girl by someone because of how much muscle I showed on such a tiny frame.

 

Amy

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At the age of 14 i weighed 103 in clothes I felt I ate under 2000 calories prior to reaching that weight, that was when i started to lose weight and have major problems with anorexia than i feel into more bulimia later on. As a child I had no concerns over food and weight but was mostly a light eater, I ate half a sandwhiches in my lunch longer than i feel most kids do not to lose weight but it was all i craved, i also ate some snacks however and sadly to some people one of those sugary juices that are only 10 percent juice.  I was mainly a light eater prior to anorexia but to do to my own concerns about weight, and judgment because i appeared to be light eater to others and how thin i was the attack and accusations about me possibly having one before i truly really got one, took its pull on me, i actually was thin and light eater but pretty much accused by a few people of being anorexic and needing help when i did not struggle, sadly false accusations lead me to turn to this condition in part as well as many other things.

 

Amy

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The doctor is who saw the weight is an old eating disorder expert i use to see, has an interesting way of treating them some accuse him of not being an eating disorder expert, I heard he was bipolar expert once.  In my eyes he is an expert in human biology but works as psychologist, in some ways he nearly seems to dream of finding a medication that can cure eating disorders and tries to treat them mainly through science. To me it nearly seems like that.  He sees the science in it and prefers looking at all health very scientifically, I believe he would have made a great medical doctor, he simply had a such a heart to work with eating disorders and see people recover that he choose psychiatry.  For weight he did beleive in body weight set point not BMI, he told one person at 5'4 she at 160 she left his office and never saw him again. He did also occasionally tell underweight people they where healthy. Today i would give anything to see him and have him evalute my sitiuation I am not sure where to find him but heard he moved to florida. Unforitionately the treatment center he use to work at does nothign for eating disorders anymore, I literally witness many hoarding food in their rooms and eating 10,000 or more calories a day on our tax dollars who are overweight and on oxgen for sleep they where never prevented from eating. I had to pull a 400 guy a side and express my concern at first I offered him my diet mountain dew I felt God asked me to in enchange for his chocolate milk, he fought and tahn everyone encouraged him this was best.  After that I asked to talk to him and he was hoarding food in his room asked me to put it in there, I hid it in my own room at first. I talked to him lightly let him he know he was attractive and simply said i was concerned about his weight gave him some names of profesionals and others he could call for help. I let him know not to worry about the weight chart some don't fit into it than simply eat whatever they want because tehy realize they will never be normal according to any chart. I simply said eat less and lose but don't compare to weight chart. At the end of it he asked for his food which I gave him, he gave me two items to return and took the rest to hoard in his room. Bascially I found out he was on sequel somehow I did not comment on it but I was outraged, his physical health consider people, this medication makes everyone gain.

 

Amy

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I did send a later over the high food consumption that was being allowed in these centers and what was gonig on to people who i thought may do something and wehre able, i never saw that again, i am not sure if it still is happening at any time.  They seem modestly concerned about my own food intake but don't watch me eat, don't put me on watch and let me eat candy in my room. NOt that I feel I need a watch, but I realize i was on watches in high school, as an adult I still think they are allowed to do watches, forbid hoarding of food under the law, and even say that anorexics and bulmics if they do bring candy can eat it in front of other people and stay out of their room after. I however don't consider myself anorexic or bulimic, but the fact that they look past and never strick and eye of care at someone my weight as you said a BMI of closet to 15 seems odd.

 

Amy

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The psych medication i am on is Loxapine. It increases muscle strength, I can eat normal on it it also makes it easier to fast and restrict. I don't usually lose or gain much on it, for some reason i stay around where I am normally, off it I eat more and don't gain but get  stomachache and sick sometimes. My metabolism has appeared to be speeding up with age for many years now.

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In many ways it is nice I nearly should feel like this is a dream come true underweight can eat whatever I want wihtout gaining, fast metabolism that seems to speed up with age slightly. However I am concerned in man ways, besides general concerns nothing medical has ever showed up.  Part of my struggles with wishing I could weigh like 100 to slightly over eating around 1500 calories a day or even 1000 to 1500 at 100, yet that may never happen. I would nearly give a lot to eat less and weight more but it can't work.  As far as why this would happen I don't know. It seems like a mystery. I feel confused by my low body weight because i am not really restricting for the most part I am simply losing. For the last 2 years I have weighed between 80 and 95 going up and down I have not really lost or gained but simply eat what i eat and nothing changes, i never use to be this thin. Two years ago i saw 80 i was nervous but everyone at work thought I looked good and insisted everyone's body was different i said i was doing nothing wrong they said don't worry about it.  I use to eat candy always at work on break, but I want to cut back on candy.  As far as sense that time i have seen 80 regularly usually I stay around 85, I only occasionally go up to 90. I have been ablet o reach 100 for a day or two over the years but not long, by eating 5000 for many days but usually I get sick after awhile. I feel unable to weigh 100 and I usually feel very stuffed. Last time i eat alot for a few days in row i literally did get the flu and throw up for day than did restrict back down in the 2000's.

 

Amy

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Overall however when it comes to calorie restriction i view it as less about weight chart are BMI weight, more about low calorie. Some people who are overweight would be rare cases but always overweight even on 1000 or 1500 I believe they would not gain weight from cutting calories that is myth but they would most likely never lose and be as thin as a BMI of 18 or 20 or anywhere near as thin as me, bodies are different.  As far as me I am concerned I have a medical condition but do want to eat less, I realize calories can be to low. I usually believe in 1000 to 2000 for women daily total averged out under 2000 minimum of 1000. For men 1500 to 2500, under 2500 minimum of 1500.  Light activity frequent throughout the day and nothing intense for cardio, lifting lights weights, some stretching is good for leg weights I do kicks but I struggle to stretch normally so I look past it for the most part.  As far as how low is to low for weight it is debated by many. If calories and weight hurts one do to health obviously I am for aiming to eat a bit more but if no harm is done you are better off low calories, but one should be mindful of the body. Obviously there are rare cases where more calories are needed I am not convinced i am one of those cases, despite  fast metabolism and possibly medical reasons being partly responsible for my thinness.  For 7 weeks of all medication I struggle to fast but occasionally was able to do 24 hour fast I usually ate between 2500 and 5000 but most likely 2500 to 3000 most days i weighed between 85 to 93 this whole time, calories where made up after 24 hour fast where i ate about 2000 or more in one sitting.  Other time I have often been around 2000 on none fast days with a weekly goal of 2 fast a week that I have not alway manged but often have. I look up to the old theologan John Welsey who was both a vegetarain and also recommended 2 fast a week.

 

As far as me I am vegetarain I believe in limiting animal by product for long life but consuming some 3 free range eggs I may do some weeks, some weeks 1 free range egg and one serving of dairy, but I don't believe in rigid rules without ever making allowances so i will be flexible as well. For meat if you do eat it I am for just free range meat a half serving 3 to 4 days a week for both animal rights and longer life. I am opposed to most animal oppression but don't think some dairy and free range eggs is bad. I think Christians have a duty to limit animal by product and meat 3 to 4 half servings of free range  a week I find most godly for Christian meat eaters.  As far as why the bible clearly states we are not even to be around riotous eaters of flesh not even associate with them in proverbs. I wrote a Biblical paper on animal rights from a biblical view and I feel strongly in an ethical duty to limit animal by-product. My offical stance is 25 to 30 percent of devote Christians should feel called to be vegans or vegetarians, the rest should limit meat and choose just humane meat choices.

 

Amy

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People should be judged by calorie restriction more than weight usually if you restrict you won't be chubby however but some have bigger bone structures.  As far as prayer sense i mentioned fasting I set a weekly goal of 2 hours a week at times i have done more other times less, this is private vocalized prayer, besides that I mediate on the Lord regularly in the day and pray in my head thought the day, surrendering my concerns, will and life to the Lord frequently in my mediation on the Lord in the day.

 

For giving I aim to give around 30 percent of my income. I hope to give 70 percent someday. I am for providing 25 to 30 percent toward household expenses being a women for my husband leaving the other 70 to 75 percent to my husband. I do feel both men and women are best giving 70 percent of income living modestly. I feel there is point where pay raises, and income should be turned down. I feel 70 percent is about the max, clearly 10 percent remains the minimum, it does not get any better than to give 70 percent of your income to church and charity than turn down several pay raises. Currently i can only afford to give around 30 percent or slightly over. I am in debt and have a plan to lower debt signifcantly, I am not opposed to all loans and credit card debt.

 

For make-up I also do sensible I am for sensible everything. Composition, eye shadow, clear mascara and some lip gloss. For hair i do dye it redish brown I also aim to trim 1/4th inch around every 3 or 4 months besides that allow it to grow.

 

For alcohol I am opposed 100 percent, and I believe in a half glass of unfermented wine grape juice a night if one wants health benefits. Alcohol is unethical in my mind but I don't care to debate it and don't judge those who drink one or two.

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I am sorry for posting so much I have recently decided to switch back to weekly weigh-ins rather than daily, no weight is perfectly accurate but you get an estimate it is also off a little bit.  You want to know around how much you weigh but you will never know your exact weight only God can know your exact weight.

 

I prefer weekly as it gives the body time to balance out.  As far as weight i remain concerned about it, how low mine is, well I desire calorie restriction for reasons personal to me and reasons i feel are good moral and ethical and not related to being thin. Much of me does like being thin, although sometimes it is hard to be thin. As far as how thin is to thin how calories are to low it depends on the person.  I hope to find a good doctor someday who understands my situation and can properly help me see where my body is currently at and can come to terms with me not having an eating disorder for the most part anymore and having a different situation, that I truly care about health and weight and would never purposely do anything to seriously harm my body in a major way. Good doctors are hard to find and I find often you get what they give you. I remain hopeful a doctor will come through someday.

 

I am sorry for posting so much even off topic things. My statement is for ideal health and even animal rights and sustaining this planet some animal product is needed not much 25 to 30 percent of people are best vegetarians, and the rest are better off eating very sensible meat. Vegetarian is special to do it is praise worthy as well as eating less meat, but vegetarain is a special ministry that should be honored in a special way, well everyone realizes not everyone is called to this ministry. For health I do believe some is needed for optimal health, as far as vegan you can be pretty healthy on it and get by, but your health won't be optimal without a little animal by product, if someone really wants vegan I support them in it however realizing they desire it and I would never choose it myself because i want optimal health not just to live and get by.

 

Amy

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After I will say i did do some research into what has been going on in happened in the world of eating disorders where I stayed out of it for while. In my search i found someone i labeled not the severest or the thinnest but the most ethical death as result of anorexia or bulimia I ever heard of yes I would never want to follow in her shoes sad, but she was ethical for many key reasons, stayed active in society, seemed to earn some of her own pay, is shown in her house preparing food some of which she brought with her own money in effort to recover, her own house or apartment. Sadly Facebook shows her as having 9 friends I believe people did not befriend her after she died it took me a while to find out she had died sadly that came later i e-mailed her hoping to help her but I was to late. I don't view her ethical for not seeking more treatment I think had she it would have been better, yet someone like her truly struggled but fought it daily i view her as fighter someone unable to beat it. Can you guess who this person is? I also sadly found in recent times the most unethical anorexic or bulimic case I ever heard of, this person thankfully seem to be alive today and doing reasonable well I pray for repentance by all members of who where involved can you guess this case? I would maybe not say either.

Eating disorders do kill and even the most ethical can fall prey and die to them that one story shows me that, it puts a healthy fear in me of becoming to thin or being deluded that going way to low in calories can't kill you when i can. However i still attest to sensible eating being best and lower calorie than average recommend clearly even ethical people have fallen prey to anorexic death.

 

Amy

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For sleep i like to look into what most virtuous people of old praised, it is clear the most praised sleep amount by the virtuous people was 4 hours a night that is virtuous people of old, praised for time with God when up more productive. As far as logic I hope to cut back get 4 hours a night a least 3 nights a week never more than 8 and 1/2 hours of sleep. I did use to get more but I aim to get less for more time with God in my own way to be simply up and take in more of life, i am struggle to get huge things done do to some other symptoms I am having but I hope to productive this way. You don't do it for praise you do it for the virtue. As far as those who stated it as good usually they simply claimed this or that guy it may be modern day people today praising old men and women of old for less sleep, maybe they get 4 them selves or maybe they feel it is ideal for virtue do it partly or not or get close but can't match it but use them for role models.

 

As far as rigid rules I feel you should be willing to bend them to merciful and gracious to self and if legit need.

 

Amy

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Of coarse society is all backwards today. if people miss even one hour of sleep they complain and usually let everyone know I only got 5 or 6 hours of sleep last night they feel bad. Society constantly says more sleep more food. People complain if they miss a meal. You have overweight people with no symptoms of bulimia, skipping a meal and raising eyebrows of concern from people. I am usually for 3 meals a day, but skipping a meal is no need to be concern have everyone feel sorry for you are treat you like you are sick.  Obviously you don't want to die of anorexia and bulmia, you want as optimal health as possible. As far as models the average BMI is around 16 to 17 based on some estimates it is possibly not much lower than that. Well people ricule models for thinness hardly anyone is as thin as them some can't but most would never restrict enough and maintain that weight. Some model I feel i have heard got fired basically for severe eating disorder behavior and losing too much weight that does not often get stated but it is pretty much factual I believe. People follow models in inmodest dress well they insist teh model industry is hurting everyone by thinness. My point is not everyone should be as thin as model, but this push for obesity is bad.

 

Also the push for everyone loud everyone loud all the time. A soft gentle spirit is better I work at it but don't always show it. It is nearly better to appear a bit shy and introverted, than have the appearance of a loud extrovert. Not to put down extroversion to strongly but in my mind introversion and people can change is better. it is best to be shy friend outgoing introverted person pretty much more so than a loud, extroverted maybe out going but very flashy personality person. I a not perfect at being sensible in all behavior but i work at it.

Amy

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Just for the record, Abraham Lincoln was 180 lbs and 6'4", putting him at a BMI of 21.9.  His weight may have been higher when he was younger, stories about his feats of strength are legendary (his calming demeanor was also legendary).

 

Anyway, I don't know much about eating disorders or how they are successfully treated, but I think there are some other recovered anorexics that post in these forums.  It would be interesting to know what happens to those calories when you eat them, if in fact you were eating >2500 calories a day (or >3000) and not gaining weight, it means the calories are not being absorbed, which usually means they are coming out in your stools (assuming you aren't vomiting).  Anorexics have low metabolisms, you most certainly aren't burning up unlimited calories without weight gain unless you are working out vigorously for hours and hours every day.  Anorexics also have low levels of brown fat, so that isn't burning the calories away either.  

 

When you were eating a lot were you having loose stools?  Did you see undigested food? I've read that anorexics have misconceptions about how many calories they are actually eating, I think the only way to know you were getting 2500 or 3000 would be to have another person measure it and watch you eat it, otherwise you may eat 500 calories and call it 2000 or maybe stick 1000 calories on a plate and eat 1/4 of it and say you ate 1000.  Do you think you might be using "religion" as an excuse to engage in the anorexic behavior?  I'd suggest using Daniel as your guide, he fasted by abstaining only from delicacies, meat and wine, but he remained strong and ate enough calories to end up healthier than everyone around him.   Even those that do water fasting generally only do it once or twice a year, for 1-3 days, and they generally don't start out with a <18 BMI.  

 

When you eat high fiber plant based meals (like I do), you have to eat big volume to get enough calories, that makes your stomach fill up and stick out, and can cause you to feel very full and bloated, but eventually your stomach stretches and you get used to it and you can eat more, this is perfectly normal.  

 

Good luck. 

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Amy,

like Gordo says, caloric restriction for someone who looks almost on the brink of starvation does not make any sense. I suggest you shift your focus to dietary restriction.

You may in fact choose to eat according to hunger (if hunger is missing then appropriate treatment is needed), always in moderation (which does not mean deprivation) and selecting the classes of food which seem to be healthier. Even from the religious point of view, a vegan regimen is undoubtedly the most ethical, since it entails no cruelty whatsoever to animals.

 

What I'd do in your place: regain some weight with a vegetarian diet which includes dairy and eggs (no killing of animals). At least a target of 18 BMI, gradually. That means reaching 100 pounds of weight for you. 

Afterwards, the target may be eliminating gradually even dairy and eggs, so applying no cruelty whatsoever to the animal world. In this forum you are going to find copious suggestions for an healthy and balanced diet, and I myself benefited from such info. Since you are a religious lady, from that point of view it is an absolute duty to keep the body fit and maintain it with adequate and healthy nourishment, not too much nor too little. If you want to keep serving God and the 'neighbour' efficiently you need to be fit, no doubt about it.

 

The other issue is your medications, loxapine appears to be used in some specific mental disorders and that of course is an issue that can be addressed by a specific specialist, I don't know how that drug can influence your hunger and bodyweight and viceversa how your issue may influence your obsession with (too little) food.

 

What I can say is that if you manage to shift your attention to following a balanced regimen you may improve physically and mentally. What I gathered from the literature and this forum:

  1. Eat the necessary healthy food to regain an healthy bodyweight  (greens, fruit, honey, whole grain cereals, legumes, dairy products and eggs, all preparations with such food)
  2. Use some basic supplements in moderation
  3. Exercise moderately at the open air
  4. Practice meditation and prayer
  5. Sleep at least 7-8 hours per day
  6. Avoid stress
  7. Be of service to family and others

I believe the above covers it all, or almost.

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I posted  lot, I do not considered myself anorexia, and I do not believe BMI is black and white clearly weight can get low. i feel my calories are absorbing doctors can't find anything wrong with me state my weight as natural. As far as using Calorie Resriction to maintain a BMI of 18.5 to 25, that is not what the society as awhole stands for.  I obviously do not like to encourage eating disorders. I am naturally thin, and mindful of my weight. For a guy a BMI of 21 is very low, many guys at that BMI do have eating disorders I am not saying he did. I appreciate that you where able to find his BMI.  As far as eating disorders they remain a huge problem.  As far as calorie restriction society it in general states many places it believes in the Body weight set point theory not BMI, it believes it is good to lose about 10 percent of the body weight set point and use caution to get in enough. BMI is not the calorie restriction society. Diets remain debated. Possibly if you are BMI you are best not being a member of the society, because the Society never stated anything about BMI instead they state eatint 25 percent or 30 percent less than recommended, maybe a diet of 1700 for women and around 1900 for men, they do caution to use wisdom and health and most articles posted by them say they are not in favor of BMI but body weight set point. This also means if you body weight set point do to rare genetics is 200 pounds you may live long even over 100 at a weight 170 do to calorie restriction. Calorie restriction is not about weight. Health science remains hard to understand and what exactly is healthy is debatable. I agree most research is not about calories.  There many who eat over 5000 calories daily and active who maintain normal weights.  The world is created for diversity. It remains sad that many have lost the battle to anorexia, bulimia and obesity.  I have weighed this for over 2 years. Why I am thin I don't know. Possibly a weight of 90 would be better, historally my set point had been 100 10 percent under is easy to do even without thinking to hard it is about 90 pounds BMI of 16 for my height about.

 

Sadly your accusations that I still have an eating disorder I find hurtful untrue and negative. I am not convinced you understand the calorie restriciton societies philopshyes they are body weight set point not BMI and getting slightly under a good 10 percent under your natural body weight set point.

 

Amy

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As far as other things they remain debated. You should sleep as much as you need to function at your best, not more or less. For some that is 12, for some that is 7 or 8 for some that is 3 or 4 everyone is different.  Weights and calories remain debated, and the human body remains mystery for many doctors.  As far as why I don't gain now I don't know it remains a mystery. My brother never had an eating disorder wishes he could gain and has a BMI of around 19.  I have weighed more in the past if my food is not absorbing properly my blood work is always fine and doctors are clueless about it.  As far as my weight I remain unsure about it.  The calorie restriction society statement is calorie restriction to the point of semi starvation but not so starved you die, it is not a society that bases it's teaches around BMI. Although a new member I seem to understand the website better than you. I am not convince I am for or against the society I debate it myself. As far as where i stand I think it does not matter if you are slightly under or over.  There is no weight that can promise you perfect health. No calorie amount that can promise you perfect health. There is no perfect sleep amount. Society wants people to think in black and whites, nothing works that way.

 

I have posted a lot of off topic things that are unrelated to calorie restriction.  Calories range greatly. Body weights range greatly bone size is different many things go into weight. 2500 calories a day not absorbing I seem to be absorbing my nutrition fine. I am very active and possibly I have higher calorie needs.

 

For the most part with eating I prefer not to do anything really all that extreme, I would rather not be a fanatic or take extreme methods to maintain a normal BMI some do, I would rather not. Calorie restriction or not I for the most part am ok doing what I do I usually eat in the 2000's.

 

Everyone also does calorie restriction differently, it remains debated.  The amount of sleep i get vary I agree i getting 4 is not everything usually I find I need more to be well rested.

 

Body's vary differently being several underweight remains a problem just like overweight. I prefer not to take extreme methods to gain all test show that I absorb my food just fine.

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Sadly your accusations that I still have an eating disorder I find hurtful untrue and negative. I am not convinced you understand the calorie restriciton societies philopshyes they are body weight set point not BMI and getting slightly under a good 10 percent under your natural body weight set point.

 

Amy

 

Just to make it clear: I made no accusations. I simply elaborated from what you were writing. If you are eating 2000 kCals per day now that's not anorexia and I'm glad I was wrong.

BMI is not a reliable parameter as you say, although it is often used as a gross estimate of underweight or overweight state. All human sizes (bodyweight included) are normal variables, so the fact that you are so thin and don't eat very little may have an explanation in the natural variability of human beings. I know one guy extremely thin who clears stuff from houses. He's stronger than me but outwardly you would think he's one day before death from starvation.

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Althrough eating disorders do kill, I think the message that everyone should have a BMI of 18.5 to 25 is hurtful for many. Just because people die for being thin does not mean everyone who is thin should hate themselves. Oddly enough I do feel bad, i feel like just because I am thin i can't be accepted as recovered, i eat normal do not starve myself and for the most part don't throw up my food. I don't think I could have a normal BMI if I tried I can only eat so much. Not everyone can have a normal BMI. Just because i am thin may never be able to gain the weight through no fault of my own does not mean I should be called anorexic and sick for life. I use to have an eating disorder I got thin some how through no fault of my own. Obviously thin people should make sure to eat more daily. On fast days I do plan to take more juice a long with than simply a glass for extra calories i consider a full fast simply just consuming liquids and I don't feel a lot of juice will destroy my fast for God as I feel like I want to dedicate myself to God.  The message that in order to be beautiful or accepted as sane and not eating disordered you must have a BMI of 18.5 or higher remains negative and has many hating themselves. oddly enough it hard for me I am thin, people die from anorexia, now I am viewed as a problem through no fault of my own i recovered. I would want to help people with eating disorders, people can't look past my thinness and realize I am eating fine and good steward. Why i got thinner remains  mystery to me. At one point I did pray for it and I don't regret the prayer today. It remains hard and possibly all the hardships of being thin through a faster metabolism I did not think through prior to prayer such as the hardship of people not always accepting me as recovered from the eating disorder among other hardship, the hardship of feeling others may be envious of me and want to do negative behaviors to be my size.

 

 

I would not mind gaining weight. i would could live if I weighed 120 or had a BMI of 22 at my height even heavier than Abraham Lincoln. I don't have a fear of weight gain for the most part but i do prefer to be thin.  I use to not leave the house if i gained a pound skip school in high school to exercise. Today i have seen myself gain weight even 5 pounds one day i have also lost 5 pounds other days I don't know why, upon gaining 5 pounds I did not restrict caloiries the next day or fast. I want from 90 to 85 one day on 2500, the next day on 2300 I want from 85 to 90 none of this effected me I found it odd it could have been anything my health checks out i have no problem.

 

I did pray to be very thin thinner than a normal BMI well not having an eating disorder today that seems to be the situation I can't prove cause or effect.  I don't understand it but today i am thin thinner than average i eat normal and they can't find anything.

 

I think if we all weighed the same thing the world would be boring and lack diversity.  Bone sizes differ not everyone needs to have the perfect BMI, it is about stewardship. In the church anorexics are pretty much condemned even if they are not that severe, where overweight people get look past and accepted often times. overweight is not good anorexia is not good but some people have different bodies different genetics.

 

Gluttony is listed as sin it is one of the prime reasons why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. What constitutes as gluttony remains debated. Calorie needs differ, many athletes need a lot of calories are thin and normal weight. Micheal Philips the swimmer I heard sometimes needs 15000 calories I assume he has a low average BMI based on seeing him once on television outside of the pool to be honest on some other show i was supised at how thin he was, he would be considered someone who exercises for health, most would not consider him calorie restriction, however not everyone needs to be calorie restriction there are other ways to steward.

 

Amy

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