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Sibiriak

Extra-Virgin Olive Oil (EVOO) Sourcing

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I just cracked open a new bottle today and drank a little by itself, it was peppery, slightly bitter, and burned all the way down, haha - that's my amateur test of quality.  If I give samples to people not used to it, they sometimes choke on it.

The CFO at Veronica Foods sometimes rates olive oils by how many coughs they can elicit in an experienced taster  :Dxyz.

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I'd like to encourage people to buy from Amphora Nueva for a reason in addition to the quality of the olive oils they sell: they are part of a small movement dedicated both to 1) improving, dramatically, consumer awareness of the importance of quality in olive oils, and to 2) new standards for olive oil quality.

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Guest Justin Lovenow

 

I just spoke with De Carlo, who are going to tell me where I can purchase their Torre Di Mossa before driving directly out there.

 

The lady I spoke with told me that this oil won the 2017 Montiferru prize in Sardinia. I checked the results, they were 1st in the Hermanu section, which is the section where the highest content in antioxidants (polyphenols and tocopherols) wins. Unofficialy, the coutn was 1000+ ppm

 

Premio Hermanu: Tenuta Torre di Mossa, dell'Azienda agricola De Carlo sas di Bitritto, in provincia di Bari.

This is an excerpt of the rules book

7. Hermanu - Premio dedicato a Marco Mugelli, stimato Presidente della Giuria Nazionale scomparso nel 2011, riservato agli oli Vincitori e Menzioni d’Onore, da assegnare, secondo i risultati delle analisi chimiche condotte nella sessione autunnale “Shelf Life”, all’olio nazionale e all’olio internazionale con maggior carica di antiossidanti (biofenoli e tocoferoli);

 

 

Greetings! This is my first post here. I have been following this forum for a while with great interest.

 

Is 'De Carlo' still a leader in the OO competition? What is the status, did you get to taste and evaluate it already?

 

I am interested in buying this OO, preferably in smaller 100ml or 250ml bottles in a box of 1.5l or 3l, depending on the price.

 

Do they ship to Sweden (which is within the EU)?

 

Also, what do you think of this (similar?) OO available at a lower price point :

 

*'Mancino Gravistelli': http://www.oliomancino.it/en/oliomancino#

(...Puglia Italy; 100% Coratina; ppm-polyphenol count: high...; free acidity: 0.1; harvest and crush date: November 2016; green in color with a golden tinge; a  decisive but palatable taste; a strongly aromatic fragrance of fresh olives and herbaceous notes, penetrating and bewitching; a bitter and pungent aftertaste; selected by Gambero Rosso as one of the best Italian olive oils; available in bottle sizes: 500ml/750ml..." )

 

Thanks for your (and anyone's) teply in advance.

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MMmmmm...

like Michael says, there are some studies with quantitative data on polyphenols degradation in EVOO, I'm very interested into this, my present EVOO stock is 8 month old now, going to find out...

Edited by mccoy

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I just spoke with De Carlo, who are going to tell me where I can purchase their Torre Di Mossa before driving directly out there.

 

The lady I spoke with told me that this oil won the 2017 Montiferru prize in Sardinia. I checked the results, they were 1st in the Hermanu section, which is the section where the highest content in antioxidants (polyphenols and tocopherols) wins. Unofficialy, the coutn was 1000+ pp

 

 

 

Greetings! This is my first post here. I have been following this forum for a while with great interest.

 

Is 'De Carlo' still a leader in the OO competition? What is the status, did you get to taste and evaluate it already?

 

I am interested in buying this OO, preferably in smaller 100ml or 250ml bottles in a box of 1.5l or 3l, depending on the price.

 

Do they ship to Sweden (which is within the EU)?

 

Also, what do you think of this (similar?) OO available at a lower price point :

 

*'Mancino Gravistelli': http://www.oliomancino.it/en/oliomancino#

(...Puglia Italy; 100% Coratina; ppm-polyphenol count: high...; free acidity: 0.1; harvest and crush date: November 2016; green in color with a golden tinge; a  decisive but palatable taste; a strongly aromatic fragrance of fresh olives and herbaceous notes, penetrating and bewitching; a bitter and pungent aftertaste; selected by Gambero Rosso as one of the best Italian olive oils; available in bottle sizes: 500ml/750ml..." )

 

Thanks for your (and anyone's) teply in advance.

 

 

 Sorry Guest Justin but I've missed your post until now, I'm going to answer to your enquiries:

 

I didn't buy Ce cArlo Torre di Mossa yet, for the simple fact that, as previously discussed, by now the 2016 production is inevitably degraded. That is, polyphenols concentration, initially about 900 ppm, has surely decreased by an unknown amount, which I'm going to try and estimate in a successive post. I'm going and wait for next crop, in a few months.

 

Mancini Gravistelli EVOO: I couldn't find its polyphenols content, going to call the guys, it's from the same variety and area of De Carlo, so, barring significant differences in production, polyphenols should not be very much less. In thsi case as well, best wait the 2017 crop though.

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I started to review some quantitative data.

 

Evolution of Phenolic Compounds in Virgin Olive Oil During Storage

 

The results are scary. This is an area not far from my place. The storage conditions were optimal. The mean polyphenols content after 6 months (in optimal storage conditions) goes down from 360 ppm to 270 and at 12 months it is down to 130, one third the mean original content. after 1.5 years it's down to 60, one sixth the original.But it is not all. We don't know how the single EVOO will behave. The Gentile B oil, which is the second in poly content initially with 403 ppm. after 18 months has 22 ppms, that is about 20 times less.

 

post-7347-0-19494400-1499433660_thumb.jpg

Edited by mccoy

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Changes in commercial virgin olive oil (cv Arbequina) during storage, with special emphasis on the phenolic fraction

 

 

 

Abstract

The aim of this work was to study the changes in the lipid substrate and in the minor components and specially in the phenolic fraction of commercial virgin olive oils of Arbequina cultivar after 12 months of storage. An increase of oleic acid percentage was found in the fatty acid composition. Important losses of chlorophyll, carotenoids, and total phenol content of oils occur after the storage period. Significant decreases were observed in secoiridoid derivatives and 3,4-DHPEA-AC after the storage period, while lignans were the more stable phenolic compounds. α-tocopherol disappeared after the storage period, in all oils.

 

In the following table, I outlined the secoiridois in yellow, those molecules like oleuropeine which are believed to be responsible for the xenohormetic effect of EVOO. Decline after 12 months of storage is about 50-60%

post-7347-0-04622300-1499524686_thumb.jpg

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Effect of storage time and container type on the quality of extra-virgin olive oil  
Abstract

Four commercial samples of extra-virgin olive oil have been analysed in order to evaluate the influence of storage time on quality. The following parameters were determined after 3 and 6 months of storage: acidity, peroxide index, absorption coefficients K270 and K230, percentage of humidity, impurity content (%), phenols content, iodine index, saponification index, colour index and fatty acid content. At the same time, the effects of container type on the deterioration in quality were studied. Each olive oil was stored in five different containers at room temperature with the same surface area of exposition to air and light: clear PET bottle, PET bottle (covered with Al foil), glass bottle, tin, and Tetra-brik®. The results showed a gradual loss of quality during storage, especially in plastic or glass bottles. The best containers for commercial packing of extra-olive oil were tin and Tetra-brik®.

 

 

 

Here the degradation after 6 months appears worse than the previous articles, but the polyphenols have been measured in ppm gallic acid equivalent, which may be different .

post-7347-0-00764500-1499525231_thumb.jpg

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I started to review some quantitative data.  [...] The results are scary.

 

Mccoy, thank you for your research on  olive oil degradation.   It certainly  does raise concerns—especially for folks that don’t have easy access  to the finest  olive oils in the world.

 

The more uncertain/lower the amount of polyphenols in EVOO becomes,  the more one has to consider  the trade-off  between the high caloric content of EVOO and the gains from the polyphenols (i.e., the “opportunity costs” of EVOO, to use an economics term.)

 

In this context,  perhaps it would be valuable to take another look at olive leaf (and fruit) extracts,  despite Michael Rae’s previous categorical rejection of those supplements  primarily because of the lack of evidence for  long-term  health benefits from OLE, compared to EVOO.  (For Michael Rae's position, see: https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11726-so-why-dont-we-brew-our-olive-oil/?do=findComment&comment=17402)

 

An interesting article on OLE:

 

Evidence to Support the Anti-Cancer Effect of Olive Leaf Extract and Future Directions

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4997426/

PMCID: PMC4997426
 
Excerpts:
Olive tree leaves (Olea europaea) are widely used in traditional medicine in the Mediterranean region [20]. In the Bible, the olive plant is referenced numerous times for its medicinal use [21]. The bioactive properties of the leaf have created a foundation for use as an antioxidant, anti-hypertensive, anti-atherogenic, anti-inflammatory, hypoglycemic, and hypocholesterolemic treatment [20]. Olive tree leaves contain similar polyphenols to those found in EVOO or the fruit itself, albeit at a much higher concentration [20,22]. Consequently, olive leaf extract (OLE) may hold an even greater potential than EVOO for improving health outcomes.
 
During EVOO processing leaves can unintentionally be left in the mixture if the separation methods are inadequate, alternately leaves can also be added to EVOO mixtures to provide health benefits and improve flavor [23]. The addition of leaves increase the phenolic and chlorophyll content of the oil but also the organoleptic traits as measured in volunteer taste tests [24]. Components of OLE that are not detected in the oil from the fruit include several flavonoids, namely luteolin and apigenin, which have demonstrated anti-cancer properties [25,26,27,28,29]. In addition, the structure of phenolics differs between the olive fruit and leaf, with OLE containing a higher proportion with a glycoside moiety (Figure 2 and Table 1) [19]. The presence of a glucose molecule could play an important role in respect to both bioavailability and bioactive potential of the polyphenols, thereby impacting the health benefits for humans.

 

Although there is a large body of research that has investigated the phenolic components of olive products and the benefits they provide to human health [39,40,41,42], there are currently no approved claims in regard to OLE. OLE not only contains a higher quantity and variety of polyphenols than those found in EVOO, but many of the polyphenols also contain a glucose moiety. This structural difference in the polyphenols may have important consequences by altering their capacity to improve health outcomes [43,44].

 

In previous work, OLE polyphenols have demonstrated the ability to inhibit proliferation of several cancer cell lines including pancreatic [45], leukaemia [46] and breast [28,47]. Cellular models for breast and prostate cancers have been inhibited by the olive polyphenols oleuropein and HT [48,49,50,51]. Importantly, oleuropein and HT have consistently been reported to discriminate between cancer and normal cells; inhibiting proliferation and inducing apoptosis only in cancer cells. The intake of polyphenols in observational studies is difficult to quantify and therefore assign effect and intervention studies in regards to cancer have not been carried out, therefore the relationship between polyphenols and cancer outcomes in humans has not been substantiated.

 

Research into the anti-cancer properties of olive polyphenols is abundant with a focus on the health effects of EVOO. Evidence suggests that the bioactive components of OLE, although similar to EVOO, may be more potent and therefore show more potential for improving health outcomes. This review aims to amalgamate the current literature regarding bioavailability and anti-cancer mechanisms involved in OLE polyphenol action. The literature identified for this review was found using the search engines PubMed-NCBI, Scopus and ScienceDirect with a combination of block searching and pearl-growing. Key words used for the search were olive leaf extract, polyphenols, cancer, oleuropein, hydroxytyrosol, Mediterranean diet, inflammation, and bioavailability. The key components from the research articles pivotal to this review have been summarized in Supplementary Table S1.

 

Dean Pomerleau,  Olive (Oil) Polyphenols Turn Fat Cells Brown/Beige

https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11488-cold-exposure-other-mild-stressors-for-increased-health-longevity/page-17?do=findComment&comment=16954

 

Cardioprotective and neuroprotective roles of oleuropein in olive

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S131901641000040X

 

Olive tree (Olea europaea) leaves: Potential beneficial effects on human health

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38082779_Olive_tree_Olea_europaea_leaves_Potential_beneficial_effects_on_human_health

Edited by Sibiriak

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There are some possible strategies to minimize the degradation problem. When the amount of degradation becomes unacceptable, then the alternative of leaf extracts becomes reasonable.

  1. Never buy EVOO from crops older than 6-10 months
  2. Buy hi-polyphenols EVOOs (with lab analyses incuded) just after the crop, that is around october-november in the northern hemispere, around april-may in the southern hemisphere
  3. Buy only very high polyphenols EVOOs like De Carlo Torre DI Mossa, so that even after 6 months there still will be lots of Oleoeuropeine
  4. Every 6 months buy fresh EVOO in both hemispheres, so that the degradation will be limited; calculate the amount you will need for 6 months
  5. If it is impossible to buy in both hemispheres, buy just after crop, estimate the amount needed for about 6 months, then buy no more EVOO until next crop and use alternatives or no oil at all 
  6. Always store optimally: cool temperatures, dark places, dark bottles or tin cans.
  7. If the EVOO is high in polyphenols (at least 300 ppm), After 6 months from the crop increase the amounts of EVOO ingested to make up for the degraded Oleuropeine. While 1 tablespoon per day may be enough after the crop if EVOO is 300 ppm polyphenols, 2-3 tablespoons may be needed after 6 months (approximated estimates). 

After 6-8 months in the northern hemisphere it starts being hot. For example I cannot keep my stock cool, so the degradation effects of time and temperature are adding up now to decrease significantly oleuropeine. At this juncture I can only rely on large amounts of EVOO ingested.

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Mccoy,  great list of anti-degradation strategies!  

 

When the amount of degradation becomes unacceptable, then the alternative of leaf extracts becomes reasonable.

 

Actually, I was thinking of using the olive leaf (or fruit) extracts more as an EVOO enhancer than a replacement.  When I read  in the article linked above--

 

During EVOO processing leaves can unintentionally be left in the mixture if the separation methods are inadequate, alternately leaves can also be added to EVOO mixtures to provide health benefits and improve flavor.

 

--that gave me the idea of spiking the probably phenolic-weak EVOO I get with some OLE, (or maybe OFE or whole olive  leaf powder)  Or if not actually spiking the EVOO with OLE, taking them both concurrently. That way one would still be getting some of EVOO's other health-promoting components not found in OLE. 

 

In any case, as Michael Rae has stressed and the article above explains in detail, EVOO and OLE have different phytochemical profiles,  not to mention the different food matrices they come in.  

 

OLE not only contains a higher quantity and variety of polyphenols than those found in EVOO, but many of the polyphenols also contain a glucose moiety. This structural difference in the polyphenols may have important consequences by altering their capacity to improve health outcomes.
Edited by Sibiriak

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I have, of course, been hammering away on the point of EVOO freshness and storage for some time — though I'm guessing folks have missed my freakishly-detailed protocol for storing extra virgin olive oil.
 

There are some possible strategies to minimize the degradation problem. When the amount of degradation becomes unacceptable, then the alternative of leaf extracts becomes reasonable.

  • Never buy EVOO from crops older than 6-10 months
  • Every 6 months buy fresh EVOO in both hemispheres, so that the degradation will be limited; calculate the amount you will need for 6 months

These appear to be synonymous suggestions. IAC, this is what I do, and one of the central things that makes VF such a great supplier.

 

If it is impossible to buy in both hemispheres, buy just after crop, estimate the amount needed for about 6 months, then buy no more EVOO until next crop and use alternatives or no oil at all 

 
This is like refusing to eat frozen vegetables if you suddenly can't buy fresh. Remember, first, that EVOO has more robustly-demostrated health benefits than any other single food on the planet, by a wide margin. (Try to find a multi-year randomized controlled trial with hard outcomes with fruit, vegetables, coffee, or anything else you care to mention. Nuts were in PREDIMED — and overall, EVOO performed as well or better. And there's arguably stronger epidemiology on EVOO than nuts).

 

Remember, too, that the vast majority (all, I suspect) of the epidemiological data supporting the value of EVOO — and the massive PREDIMED clinical trial — all involved people who only had access to Northern Hemisphere (and, usually, Spanish, Italian, or Greek) olive oil, in most cases bought off the shelf: they didn't have the luxury of dual-hemisphere purchasing, low-temperature pitch-black storage, etc. It's still massively beneficial. Worrying about the phenolics and the rest of the chemistry is optimizing around the edges.

 

You are a Damned Fool if you aren't consuming EVOO — preferably, the best you can get and convince yourself that you can afford, but you want this baby even if you are stuck with last season's bathwater.

 

I don't see any good evidence that one should supplement with olive leaf extract, and the precautionary principle rules against it: I do thank Sibiriak for being careful to alert people to my more specific objections to using it as a substitute or "top-up" supplement to EVOO.

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Michael, I just love your words! Celestial music to my hears, I'm glad the evidence-based benefits of EVOO far surpass my past belief. Care in sourcing and storage of EVOO actually is far simpler than dual-hemisphere purchase, at least here in EVOOland.

 

Also, thanks to this forum I could appreciate the fine nuances in the beneficial properties of EVOO and how to take the most advantage of them.

 

I'm just refining my sourcing strategy and next fall I hope I'll be able to come up with some really hi-polyphenols local products, already talking to people close to the producers. Key factors to get the most oleoeuropein seem to be to pick relatively unripe olives (very first production) and proper manufacturing, with some simple tricks of the trade. Fact is that traditional folks here appreciate the lack of polyphenols, not the abundance of it, so a targeted request must be forwarded to producers.

 

My plans also involve travelling to the sites of the highest polyphenols-yielding crops and buy a few selected bottles, to use as a concentrated source of secoiridoids.

 

If anyone would like to investigate on some specific brands of Italian EVOO we may do that in the forum.

 

 

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I looked up oro bailen from mechanisms post on amazon and it says b10-11-17 not sure what that means. It had also a date above that of july 2018 which I assume is a best consumed by date which really tells you nothing. I was hoping it would have a date for when it was processed. The banner claims its a new harvest 2017

Edited by mikeccolella

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Unless you have had the chemistry tested, you don't really know what you're getting. That's why I buy exclusively from https://amphoranueva.com/ as they give you the most important info: chemistry and harvest date. When comparing chemistry, it's also important to be consistent, as Europeans have their own testing protocols, so I like that all the amphoranueva oils go through the same facility so it's an apples to apples comparison. The other thing is I don't have to worry about storage conditions over there, which can be a concern if you're just buying from any old vendor. I used to think that going by varietal was a good proxy for the chemistry you get - f.ex. UC Davis has a chart showing the chemistry of various olive varietals - but through the years I've noticed that the chemistry differs wildly from harvest to harvest, so really in the end, the only way to know what you are getting is to have it tested every single time, which is what the amphoranueva folks do.

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Mike, These are the characteristics of oro Bailen as reported in this site:

 

TYPE:
Extra Virgin
 
SIZE:
500ml (16.9 oz)
 
REGION:
Andalusia, Spain
 
VARIETAL:
Picual
 
POLYPHENOLS:
593 (mg/kg)
 
HARVEST:
Fall 2016
 
PRODUCER:
Galgon 99 SL
 
 
Since it's produced in Spain, last crop has been fall 2016 and next one should be fall 2017.
 
Poly content is pretty good, twice the European 'protective' threshold of 300 ppm.
Edited by mccoy

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Best thing now (besides buying the recent spring crop of the southern hemisphere) is maybe wait for the next fall crop and check the labs results, then buy the highest poly with the best price (barring specific flavour preferences).

 

I don't know about yearly variations in poly content, but probably variability is to be expected due to various seasonal and production factors. I'd like to know how the content can vary from one year to the other, before buying next crop of the expensive torre Di Mossa or Arcamone for example, I'd like to make sure I have my bang =secoiridoids for the buck.

Edited by mccoy

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The advantage of buying from a place like amphoranueva is that they get harvests in that split the year, by hemisphere. The closer you are to the harvest the better, because even with the best storage conditions, there is still steady attrition of nutritional quality. So, if you can get the spring harvest from Chile/Australia etc. and then the fall/winter from Europe, you are covered for 6 months at worst, if you split your purchases in two which is what I do. I buy the best chemistry from the South and then from the North during the year, so my oil is never older than 6 months at worst. Of course sometimes the best chemistry is leagues better in the South or North, and the other can't come close, but you roll with the punches. Some years just yield amazing stuff, like the 2011/12 Picual Ultra from Chile, with upwards of 700 polyphenol count, and then at the other end, you can't get better than about 400. I suppose the worse the chemistry, the more important it is to buy close to the harvest, because there isn't much margin left for deterioration. In any case, I've had good luck with picuals especially from Chile.

 

At the moment, amphoranueava has a couple of options, the Favolosa from Chile, May harvest, and the Australian Picholine also May. Nothing exceptional, with the poly count hovering around 380-440 give or take, and oleic 75-73. But on the other hand, at least you know what you are getting. 

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Has anyone tried the Dehesa de la Sabina? It's pretty reasonable with free shipping, and they say 2017 harvest tested at 738 mg/kg polyphenols.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GUL8G8Q?th=1(if anyone does try it, please let me know how it is and how it compares to some amphoranueva oils)

Edited by tea

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Interesting. I am a novice for EVOO sourcing. If we go with

https://amphoranueva.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=182

 

( El Presidente, aka Oro Bailen Picual );

 

 

 

Harvest Date: Nov 2016

FFA(.1) Poly (288) Oleic(78.5) Peroxide (5.7)

 

...are we better off ordering from Amphora Nueva than ordering from other ( or same) suppliers on Amazon.com?

 

Is it a matter of not being assured it is the same harvest, adulteration or other factors ( or would purchase via Amazon.com be just as good if described as Oro Bailen Picual)?

 

I presume " El Presidente " meets consensus CR forum quality standards with regard to oleic acid, phenolics, etc?

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I found the original thread:

 

In https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11548-storing-extra-virgin-olive-oil/

Dean & AEN endorsed Oro Bailen Reserva Familia Picual, which Michael confirmed:

 

"Oro Bailén Reserva Familiar Picual is indeed an excellent oil: it's actually one of the best oils currently available via Amphora Nueva and (many) other Veronica Foods client stores for the Northern Hemisphere harvest this year (yes, I'm confident that "El Presidente" = "Reserva Familiar": VF is the official distributor for OB in North America). Amphora and most other VF client stores, unlike Oro Bailén themselves, also post the chemistry on the oil, though not yet a full chemistry panel:"

 

So the same oil available by Amphora Nueva here:

https://amphoranueva.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=182

 

Is also available by a different name through Amazon here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B003U65RUO/ref=mp_s_a_1_8_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1501928004&sr=8-8&keywords=Galgon&condition=new

 

In that thread Dean suggested it may be fresher to obtain directly from Amphora Nueva , but I am wondering why, if cultivars are annual? Is there a concern for adulteration via the Amazon source too?

 

One other observation: it looks like the Poly content is lower than when Michael lauded it's content. My understanding is that it is still high...

does anybody here alternate which brand by year or harvest ( and if not, why not?), and if so what is your database and agorithm for making your regular selections. I thought I could stick with a good EVOO like the one above and ride the waves of Poly variation from harvest to harvest as insignificant but perhaps I should question this practice.

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Has anyone tried the Dehesa de la Sabina? It's pretty reasonable with free shipping, and they say 2017 harvest tested at 738 mg/kg polyphenols.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GUL8G8Q?th=1(if anyone does try it, please let me know how it is and how it compares to some amphoranueva oils)

 

Tea, how can a Spahish EVOO be from the 2017 harvest?? The early harvest will take place next October. Actually, it won the the 2017 best-in-class prize but you cannot read from the label: "2017 harvest'. I'm tempted to believe here that the ambiguity has been intentional.

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One other observation: it looks like the Poly content is lower than when Michael lauded it's content. My understanding is that it is still high...

does anybody here alternate which brand by year or harvest ( and if not, why not?), and if so what is your database and agorithm for making your regular selections. I thought I could stick with a good EVOO like the one above and ride the waves of Poly variation from harvest to harvest as insignificant but perhaps I should question this practice.

 

I believe there cannot be algorithms since the presence of polyphenols in production is governed by many uncertainties (too many random parameters). Although a production which si usually high will probably remain relatively high, but the fluctuations like TomB underlined can be significant.

 

What I would do is wait for the lab analyses and buy the EVOO with the highest polyphenols. If they don't provide lab analyses, then they are out of the list.

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