Dr. John Ramsey - Ketogenic Diets and Aging

[Todd Allen]

I liked this review of research into how ketogenic diets slow aging despite it being a lot of mouse studies.  Although many conflate ketogenic diets with high protein this research used the more traditional low protein approach to keto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry7QJqgcd04

[Genny]

Ketogenic diets are a TERRIBLE idea for aging.  They are associated with really bad insulin resistance that is very hard to correct.  They also cause dysfunctional synapse autophagy that is linked to measurable functional intelligence deficits. 

[Saul]

Dr. Ramsey's study is flawed in another way:  the mice were not on calorie restricted diets.  He does note the positive effects of CRON diets, on both healthspan and lifespan of mice (also, to his credit, he's a students of Dr. Weindruch, one of the early researchers on CR) -- but the sequence of studies that he carried out were NOT on calorie restricted mice.  So they don't give much, if any, info for CRONnies or those doing IF diets.

 So it isn't surprising that he gets results inconsistent with those in Luigi's video.

(Luigi deprocates ketogenic diets; Dr. Ramsey embraces them.)

  --  Saul

[Todd Allen]

On 2/2/2019 at 3:15 PM, Genny said:

Ketogenic diets are a TERRIBLE idea for aging.  They are associated with really bad insulin resistance that is very hard to correct.  They also cause dysfunctional synapse autophagy that is linked to measurable functional intelligence deficits.

Genny, do you have any references to evidence supporting those assertions?

 

[Genny]

The insulin insensitivity is extremely well known and easy to find.  Even Fontana's research on the glucose levels of CR practitioners found the group with elevated glucose levels and impaired insulin sensitivity in response to meals, and these people discovered that they were all low carb dieters.  There are a number of CR-ish bloggers who documented this in themselves years ago, too.  This is like the ABCs of ketogenic diets.  To spare glucose for the use of the central nervous system, other tissues become extremely insulin insensitive over time.  One guy even document months of continued insulin resistance that only slowly improved after stepping away from a ketogenic diet.

Here is a short term one that even shows the same issue in mice:  http://dx.doi.org/10.1113/JP275173

A casual article about insulin resistance in humans on a long-term diet, assuring keto people that it's TOTALLY HEALTHY AND IT ONLY HAPPENS BECAUSE YOU CHEAT AND ITS NOT A PROBLEM ANYWAY, REALLY:  https://www.docmuscles.com/does-long-term-ketosis-cause-insulin-resistance/ 

It is NOT totally healthy, and people who stay on a ketogenic diet will usually see slowly upwards-creeping levels of blood sugar and insulin.  Yes, it's adaptive, but it's maladaptive, in response to an unnatural and unhealthy diet.  The only way to reverse the unhealthy creep of insulin resistance is to break the diet, which causes even higher levels of blood glucose for months to years afterwards as your body readjusts poorly to having plenty of glucose again.  It is not "easily" reversible, like they claim.  Plenty of people have struggled for a very long time after quitting keto to get their blood glucose back to what it had been.  And these were previously healthy people who thought they were just moving to an even healthier diet.

Keto gurus insist that it's totally HEALTHY insulin resistance just like CR thin bones were totally HEALTHY thin bones, or you're totally doing it wrong or else you wouldn't have bad effects!  Yeah.  No such thing.  You don't get a magic keto pass from the consequences of your diet.

I've been trying to find the study on synaptic pruning and brain damage that's demonstrated in mice (and honestly seems pretty evident in a lot of the people who have been on long-term keto--they seem to suffer from seriously impaired cognition after a while, too), but it's been more difficult.  I'll post it when I find it again.  It was incredibly damning, but it perfectly explains the level of dysfunction that often sets in (observationally) after about six months on a keto diet, when previously stable people start having what seems to be severely impaired thinking patterns.

Just google "physiological insulin resistance" in quotes and ketosis (not in quotes) to find hundreds, if not thousands, of people dealing with the consequences of this ill conceived, bizarre, and extreme diet.  You'll find people being told they're doing ketosis wrong, or that it's actually healthy to have crazy high levels of blood glucose when you're in ketosis because it's an ADAPTATION, or that they've really got some other disease and it's not the fault of their absurd diet even though it happens to lots of people.  Yes, magic keto high glucose it totally fine.  Sure.  Sell me another one, please.

[Todd Allen]

12 hours ago, Genny said:

Here is a short term one that even shows the same issue in mice:  http://dx.doi.org/10.1113/JP275173

Did you read the paper you referenced?!?  In that paper it says...

• Quote

  KD fed animals appear metabolically healthy in the fasted state after 3 days of dietary challenge, whereas obesogenic high‐fat diet (HFD) fed animals show elevated insulin levels.

   

  Quote

  Results
  Short‐term obesogenic HFD feeding but not KD causes an increase in fasting insulin and homeostatic model assessment‐insulin resistance (HOMA‐IR)

   

13 hours ago, Genny said:

Just google "physiological insulin resistance"

physiological

1. (Physiology) of or relating to physiology

2. (Physiology) of or relating to normal healthful functioning; not pathological

 

Here's a review paper of the large body of scientific evidence showing KDs reverse metabolic syndrome.

Nutritional Ketosis for Weight Management and Reversal of Metabolic Syndrome

Quote

Summary Humans have evolved with the capacity for metabolic flexibility and the ability to use ketones for fuel. During states of
low dietary carbohydrate intake, insulin levels remain low and ketogenesis takes place. These conditions promote breakdown of
excess fat stores, sparing of lean muscle, and improvement in insulin sensitivity