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mccoy

Back to CE but...

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Temps are starting to decrease here, not much, in the region of 5 to 15 °C and I've kept wearing the same T-shirts I've been donning across the summer.

So far so good, but... this time, unlike last year, I got a running nose. Just today. That went along with subpar levels of energy and I'm pretty annoyed that it happened, since last year the immune system responded perfectly, without the least drawback.

I'm wondering now what it can be, not much has changed from last year though. I wonder if the other guys practicing CE have noticed an immunity to sickness and to what extent.

I know it's a trifle, but I was proud of my super immunity (so far!!!).

Edited by mccoy

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Where I live it seems some kind of nasty cold has been hitting everyone.  My wife and kids all got it, I was optimistic, but as soon as they got better, I went down hard, had a fever for 3 continuous days and the worst sore throat of my life, pretty much lost the ability to talk, swallowing was excruciating.  I think it was probably strep throat.  Anyway, I don't do CE unless I'm 100%, but I don't think there is any evidence that it compromises the immune system, that's a myth:

https://www.verywellhealth.com/does-cold-weather-cause-the-cold-or-flu-770379

 

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Since I've been taking zinc picolinate I never get sick anymore. I've already shared my story around here when I had a zinc deficiency and kept getting colds and flu. Even with 7 nephews and nieces running around here most days, I don't catch anything.

Aside from taking zinc consistently, I also take allicin max.. although I didn't feel like it helped at all when I was low on zinc.

I also have beta glucan and take about 10 capsules a day if there are some nasty bugs going around here.

Edited by Matt

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Gordo, if you went down, then I reckon it's kind of inevitable to everyone to go down occasionally. I mean, your dietary regimen is virtually perfect and you've been practicing CE for a while. By the way, I'm absolutely convinced (by empirical experience) that CE improves the immune system, as an hormetic stressor, it doesn't compromise it at all unless other factors kick in, like malnutrition and sickness, or very negative mental bias.

I had a very running nose for 2 days and some cough and I felt strangely cold. On the 3rd day I'm apparently better off but I lost 3 kilograms of bodyweight, more than I loose usually on a water-only fast. The worst of it is that I'm getting a lot of harsh criticism from my wife, like you superman at last went down, you're not a kid any longer and so on and so forth. But that's after all the role of wives, we cannot change the order of things in the universe.

I've yet to ponder this issue at depth, there may be many reasons for such sicknesses...

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20 hours ago, Matt said:

Since I've been taking zinc picolinate I never get sick anymore. I've already shared my story around here when I had a zinc deficiency and kept getting colds and flu. Even with 7 nephews and nieces running around here most days, I don't catch anything.

Aside from taking zinc consistently, I also take allicin max.. although I didn't feel like it helped at all when I was low on zinc.

I also have beta glucan and take about 10 capsules a day if there are some nasty bugs going around here.

Congratulations Matt, I remember you wrote about the zinc issue in another thread, since how long have you been in a state of superimmunity?

I've been taking zinc for 2 years now but presently not picolinate. Is it possible that the specific zinc compound makes a difference? 

I'm also going to think about beta glucan, and probably gulp down crushed garlic more regularly.

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On 11/22/2018 at 2:11 AM, BrianA said:

Sometimes my nose just runs from being exposed to cold air. Happens often if I go mountain biking in colder weather.

BrianA, yes, I think that's a natural reaction which has nothing to do with sickness. Mine was undoubtedly an acute case of cold.

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Well, it's been about 2 years almost, but I went from very bad immunity to very good. Just before I realized I was deficient (I was getting non-stop acne breakouts and other symptoms), I got sick 3 times in a short period of time. Once that lasted 2 weeks (felt like the flu), and two other times that were only separated by weeks. The last time I was ill, I burst my eardrum and was half deaf for months.

But even before that, I was getting sick about 3-4 times a year. This was really unusual because early on when I was doing CR I rarely got sick with viral infections... I could go years without catching anything.

Which form of zinc do you take?

Comparative absorption of zinc picolinate, zinc citrate, and zinc gluconate in humans  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3630857

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What still amazes me is the bodyweight signal:

image.png.e7b94b507396c4949c72450d34c6fa8d.png

After the 68.3 anabolic peak, the catabolic trough was dramatic at 65.3 and I'm presently at 66.3, having regained only one third of the lost weight even though I'm continuing exercising. I have not much hunger though.

My impression is that the body strongly defends some thresholds and my attempts to go above them are met by resistance in the form of nausea, temporary anorexia, queasiness, even sickness. 

Edited by mccoy

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We had a good early frost in November,  and  currently its moderately cool  (I'm looking forward to -40 C!).

      4 декабря в Красноярске

      ночь – утро  -33°  ощущается как -37°

      день – вечер-28° ощущается как -31

Edited by Sibiriak

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Our minimum tonight was around 7 °C. Only 37 Celsius degrees of difference with Krasnoyarsk!

Today the maximum temperature hit 15 °C in the mountains, and I had a midday anti-glycaemic walk with a polynesian flowery shirt

 

Edited by mccoy

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At last we had a little snow, just around freezing point, absolutely nothing like siberia  or Canada but I enjoyed walking outside in a sleevless polo shirt.

Mostly I walked under a patio and only shortly under the snow.

I find that, once full thermogenesis kicks into, cold is not perceived very much, unless it's windy. In more extreme temperatures it's probably better to don long sleeved shirts, unless your name is Wim Hof.

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I'm not directing this at any particular person here, but there is a bit of an undertone across the thread. Weather does not cause colds. Viruses do. And certain viruses have a cycle of being around more during the winter. 

I think it's impossible to totally avoid ever getting sick. The best you can hope for is to get sick less frequently and less severely than other people. If it were possible to eat optimally and not get sick I would have accomplished it (I have not). Here are some of the things I can do (most of the time but not all the time) without living an unnecessarily restricted life:

  • Get a flu shot every year
  • Avoid sick people
  • Avoid kissing casual friends on or near the mouth
  • Stay out of closed spaces (like elevators)
  • Stay away from coughing children or adults
  • Avoid eating food that may have been touched by many people, including inadvertently (like at a buffet)
  • Avoid eating food made by children
  • Stay hydrated

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Why did I not add the most important one? Wash my hands. Probably more important than all the others put together.

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Those are undoubtedly reasonable considerations, although the thought of superimmunity holds a certain fascination. Superimmunity would mean to do the things contrary to those enumerated by you and still not getting sick.

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Another reason I don't believe in superimmunity is my observation of pets. Many of us who own pets offer them the best possible nutrition and every available vaccination. We do not let them "cheat" by eating people food or other junk, but provide them with the highest quality pet food, based on science. And if we are good owners, we provide them with adequate exercise, sleep, and love, which also promote health. Good and responsible zoos do this, too: give animals absolutely everything they need to thrive and excel. Yet, pets and other animals get colds and little illnesses just like we do.

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drcha, that may depend on the lack of adequate stressors in most pets. I noticed that mine, who are often exposed to cold and often exercise by running across the lands around my home, do not get sick at all. They do get sick though when they engage in predator activities with wild animals, receiving bites which get often infected. They get injured actually, so I'm now restraining them. They also tend to eat unealthy stuff when around. Bottom line, an adequate, optimal amount of stressors seems to give pets virtual immunity from disease.

Re. pet foods, the best food for pets would actually be the same food we eat, with variations according to the pet's genus (cats, dogs and so on). Artificial pet foods are allegedly balanced but unnatural. I do not give my dogs natural food anylonger because it's too tiem consuming, but, if done with the necessary knowledge, that's undoubtedly the best.

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My observation of myself suggested that states of superimmunity or near superimmunity are really achievable.

In my anecdotal experience, you need the proper food, proper exercise, proper sleep and proper hormetic stressors like cold, phytochemicals and so on. I repeat, in my own little example, I could observe how I never got ill for years in a row when young. Not even flu or cough. Nothing.

And previously I was often ill, so that would suggest an expression of the suitable genes due to the cited factors, if my basic knowledge of human health is not wrong.

 When I resumed exercise and cold exposure 2-3 years ago, plus the hortorectic diet we always discuss about in this forum, I only got the single cold I complained about in this thread.

I may be speaking too soon, but i'm going to keep you guys updated, in total honesty.

Edited by mccoy

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I got chubby for a period of five years (counting my weight loss year). Before I was chubby, I rarely got sick.  While chubby, I was sick all the time.  I got colds. I got flus.  I got bacterial infections literally for the only time in my life except 2 pinkeye and 1 ear infection as a small kid.

It took longer for my immune system to kick back into gear than any other change. I’m back to my old self. The Death Cold (weeks of coughing) wiped out almost everyone around here, including most of my family and my very lean husband. I only discovered I was also infected because I did a water fast—tanked my immune system(as it is actually meant to) and symptoms popped up on the 3rd day.  Oops.  But I broke my fast and was over all daytime symptoms in 3 days and all nighttime symptoms in 5 even as everyone else was hacking and coughing for weeks. 

I can tell you what I do.  I keep body fat in the fitness range—prefer it at the bottom but it’s not always there. I work out moderately (12-20 miles of running slowly a week, 10+ miles a day of walking at a treadmill desk, 2-3 days lifting) and raise my core temp with hot baths 3-7x per week (sauna would work as well). I’ve started doing some one-minute cold showers too—it’s cold exposure that should, according to the literature, give al the immune benefits of underdressing with little of the misery. I’m also not excessively thin. All these things should help.

Or they might not. If you have a very aggressive immune response, it will make you feel like crap—for a very short time, because it should knock the cold out fast. And that’s not necessarily bad. The immune response associated with fevers is also linked to lower cancer incidence—a connection that was first made nearly 200 years ago and has since been confirmed. 

Edited by Genny

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Interesting topic this one, maybe a perfectly calibrated immune system will fight any onset of sicknes while at the same time causing as less symptoms as possible, conserving  the general efficiency of the body. A sort of optimization.

So far so good, I kept up with CE and I had no more nagging reactions. Intermittent CE seems to be optimal in this aspect.

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To be a bit of a troll...maybe all beneficial stresses are most beneficial when both intermittent and at moderate levels. 

Doesn’t that make the most sense based on everything we know about the human body?

A new kind of moderation....

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I must regretfully say here that today I had elevated frontal temperature and heatbeat and a general feeling of weakness. FWIK, it might be due to overtraining and maybe concomitant overeating. no other symptoms are present.

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The overall health balance this winter was the two episodes I reported. I regret that no superimmunity was exhibited

  • 1st one, running nose for one week, was just after I reached my highest bodyweight in years. Maybe due to excessive ad libitum eating to boost muscle hypertrophy. followed by strong catabolic signal.
  • 2nd one , over the weekend: overwhelming sleepiness, some fever, may be due to some infection or exercise-caused inflammation.
Edited by mccoy
typos

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