Mycotoxins and aflatoxins in cereals/pseudocereals

[GhostofCircleKnight]

Hi CRsociety OGs, 

I'm relatively new to this quest, but came across some unsettling findings that indicate many of the cereals and pseudocereals consumed contain carcinogenic compounds (from fungal infections) like mycotoxins and aflatoxins. What can I do to minimize consumption of these and what are your strategies employed to do as such? 

 

 

[Saul]

Hi GhostofCircleKnight!

Why eat any cereal?  Cereals are calorie dense, nutrient poor, and usually high in sodium.

  --  Saul

[GhostofCircleKnight]

Hey Saul, 

Thanks for your comment. I only CR up to 5%, but try my best to protein restrict (keep protein less than 15% of total calories). As such, cereals make it sort of easy, as the ones I consume (steel-cut oats, colored quinoa, black rice) tend to be lower in protein (10-14%) and generally have low-medium GIs (40 to 55). I have trouble eating large amounts of food (and I time restrict eat, my window is 6-8 hours per day), so it being a little calorically dense makes things a bit easier. 

Sodium doesn't appear to an issue thankfully, as I only consume it in whole grain and not pasta/bread form. The lack of nutrient denseness (at least compared to beans) is a problem, but I hope to make up for it for certain phytonutrients. 

 

[mccoy]

Ghost, are the reports you read reliable? Paleo people presently are demonizing some plant based foods like fruit and cereals. Of course there is a risk that some batch with higher than the threshold  legal concentrations of aflatoxins makes it to the market. The providers would risk criminal charges this way though.

AFAIK, a serious issue seems to be with inorganic arsenic in rice, so you might want to check its consumption.

[GhostofCircleKnight]

There is a lack of consistency in the reports, and (while I assume they are legitimate in that they are scientific articles) perhaps I do not know how to interpret the numbers and whether it is significant or not (gut knowledge tells me it is not significant, but I will have to verify. Perhaps, it leads me to purchase grains grown in one region over another (where there are stricter regulations)). I will spend some more time reading them and post some links later. Yeah it's bad enough the paleo people don't understand how bad the animal products they consume is bad for them, and I don't mean to give them a 'point' on this. 

Regarding the rice, that's unfortunate to hear, but useful to know. Thanks, and from this point forward I'll limit my rice consumption to 1 uncooked cup a week and try to only buy rice from Cali. 
 

[Todd Allen]

2 hours ago, GhostofCircleKnight said:

Yeah it's bad enough the paleo people don't understand how bad the animal products they consume is bad for them

I have a neuro muscular wasting disease, SBMA aka Kennedy's disease, a genetic mutation of the androgen receptor gene.  IGF-1 reduces the toxicity of mutant AR via Akt phosphorylation as well as boosting survival and regeneration of muscle and motor neurons through multiple mechanisms.  Novartis developed an injectable drug BVS-857, a modification of IGF-1 that inhibits clearance greatly increasing its half life in serum, to treat my disease and sponsored a human clinical trial.  Like all previous attempts at drug therapy for my disease it was another failure, in this case it provoked an immune response that not only attacked the drug but also ones own insulin.

But I'm increasingly less bothered by the decades long string of drug failures.  For almost 3 years I've been eating a paleo'ish version of a ketogenic diet which has greatly improved my insulin sensitivity and I've brought my IGF-1 level up from the sub 10 percentile level for men of my age (typical for this disease) to nearly the 80th percentile level.  In these past years I've regained my ability to walk,  swim, bicycle and even jog a little bit.  My last dexa scan showed my gain of muscle mass in my arms was roughly 10% with a drop in fat of roughly 5% over the previous 4 months.  Animal products may be bad for you but they in combination with several other factors have been a life saver for me.

[GhostofCircleKnight]

Kennedy's disease does not sound pleasant and I am sorry this condition is something you have to have to live with. And it is unfortunate to hear pharmacological inventions failed, and if anything, were harmful. I can at least in part understand given certain health issues of my own. 

Nevertheless Todd, while my comment was not meant to be an emotional trigger, the typical paleo diet is not good for the average human. The need for higher IGF levels in your case is certainly warranted to counteract the effects of the SBMA condition, but high protein diets (like paleo) generally age people faster and are responsible for a more rapid introduction of terrible illnesses none of us wants have. And the jury on keto longterm is still out, at least in my opinion, so I shall refrain from judgement on that. Both points are something to be mindful of, lest my previous comment be taken out of context. 

It is a source great news hearing that your dietary interventions have led to improvements of health, and indeed your version of the keto diet (which I assume is higher protein because of paleo) seems to have played a part in doing so (but I don't know if it had/has a net +, -, or mixed effect long-term). But as great as hearing your triumphant anecdote is at least in the present, it does not take away from the fact that, as a whole, animal products (granted it is a spectrum) are not good for most people or at best neutral in terms of pros/cons. 

And this may sound audacious to say, but there is a chance you may have acquired similar benefits with a keto plantbased diet that utilized protein powders, TVP, or higher protein nuts/seeds/legumes to elicit the same effect of increased muscle mass and higher Igf-1. Due to a lack of data and it being focused on one individual, at least on my part, I cannot conclude it would be supreme or that would definitely be the case, but I can suggest that this outcome may be just as viable, without the animal products we know are harmful in other ways. 

Still, my opinions aside, I wish you the best of health. 

[Todd Allen]

 

2 hours ago, GhostofCircleKnight said:

Nevertheless Todd, while my comment was not meant to be an emotional trigger, the typical paleo diet is not good for the average human.   ...   And this may sound audacious to say, but there is a chance you may have acquired similar benefits with a keto plantbased diet that utilized protein powders, TVP, or higher protein nuts/seeds/legumes to elicit the same effect of increased muscle mass and higher Igf-1.

It bothers me to see unqualified statements about most any aspect of diet such as macro composition and especially anything so broad as animal foods or plant foods are good or bad.  Everything has trade offs and those trade offs vary dramatically from person to person with a huge number of genetic factors involved that we are just beginning to identify.  I made the mistake of believing a low fat vegan diet was intrinsically healthy influenced by such commentary and it took me far too long to realize how inappropriate it was for myself.

There's a fair amount of evidence that whey protein is more effective than plant based proteins at stimulating insulin, IGF-1 and mTOR.  Probably because of the mix of amino acids, rich in both leucine and methionine.  It provides more precursors for glutathione which is desirable in my case.   In addition to the whey protein I eat a lot of eggs, fatty fish and organ meats, especially liver and heart, for a variety of reasons.  Animal foods uniquely provide B12, creatine, carnitine, and carnosine and are good sources of the best forms of omega-3s, important phospholipids and many micronutrients such as zinc and iron.

I readily accept the potential tradeoff of increased cancer risk,  cancer is a less common cause of death with SBMA.  It's possible my diet is increasing my risk of cardiovascular disease which is an increased cause of death with SBMA where dyslipidemia is super common.  With my diet and lifestyle changes, despite massive improvements in triglycerides and HDL, my doc became concerned about my rising LDL, most recently 199, especially since statins aren't a good option due to their effects on mitochondria and muscle.  But after a day of many tests in cardiology, despite their best efforts they were unable to find any sign of cardiovascular disease and advanced lipid testing suggests my LDL profile is good and low risk.   So I'm not much concerned there either.

Another supposed risk of animal foods, especially saturated fat, is increased risk of diabetes.  Rate of progression of SBMA is correlated to insulin resistance and SBMA plus diabetes is awful.  But my experience has been the opposite, I've completely reversed all signs of metabolic syndrome and achieved stable low normal blood sugar and very low fasting insulin with 70+% of calories from fat, including significant amounts of saturated fat.  I've also reversed many medical issues associated with diabetes such as peripheral neuropathy which I developed despite never having blood glucose levels quite high enough to be diagnosed diabetic.  There's evidence ketogenic diets fix diabetes in many if not most people though perhaps it is further biased by SBMA.  Mice genetically engineered to have SBMA lived twice as long on a high fat diet as ones on standard mouse chow while wild type mice do poorly on the high fat diet.

 

[mccoy]

I believe that both of you guys have valid arguments there.

1. Todd's situation is very specific (rare geneticf polymorphism) hence his conclusions are rigorously valid to a restricted subset of the population, although some inferences on the power of stimulating MPS in a subject whose very genetics tends to inhibit the very same MPS may be extended to the general population
2. My take on animal products is neutral, although I tend to eat prevalently plant-based with the exception of some nonfat yogurt presently. In literature it seems clear that animal and plant-based protein are different in some aspects, not just the matrix but the chemistry as well (as cited by Todd, probably amminoacid composition). Animal proteins, and some specific animal proteins, would tend to boost systemic IGF-1 concentration. This may be a con or may be a benefit, it's still not very much clear but probably it depends on specific individuals , on what they do, on what they want.
3. In my case, I find that plant-based protein isolates are not always a feasible choice, they tend to give nausea and are not always well accepted by teh system. Sometimes they are, for example in smoothies and with particular ingredients. AS far as I could observe in my specific case, my genetic setup is such that a catabolic signal mimetic of CR tends to prevail naturally. If I eat modestly or skip meals, weight loss is disproportionately high in comparison to decrease of calories. Also, I'm practicing resistance training and my aim would be to increase muscle mass up to a point where I can stop and practice caloric moderation witouth the worry of loosing skeletal muscle. That's why now I'm experimenting the introduction of a little animal protein in teh form of nonfat greek yogurts. The idea came from Michael Rae, who does the same to counteract his very low IGF-1in the presence of rigorous CR.

The issue of IGF-1 is a complex one, some literature suggests that there is an optimum concentration versus mortality, Some evidence (Laron dwarfs) woudl suggest that the lower the better, others relate it to sex (females have an advantage with low IGF-1), others relate it to local IGF-1 versus systemic.

The recent Peter Attia podcast with Dr Barzilai is very interesting in thsi context, I'm going to open a specific thread.

[mccoy]

Getting back to food contamination, I think that our duty is to monitor the warnings but then act accordingly and within reason.

Every food has its own legal threshold of aflatoxins; buying from reliable sources is a means to ensure that the safe levels have been respected. I eat a lot of cacao powder, which is potentially subject to aflatoxins and Cd contamination. I eat peanuts, which are very subject to aflatoxins infection. Some worry may be raised when the warnings come from vegan authorities like Dr Greger, who pointed out the numerous studies on relatively high concentrations of inorganic  As in rice. My research in domestic rice yielded the same result. Unfortunately this quintessential component of the vegan diet has become a potential health hazard if eaten with regularity .

But the same can be told of animal sources. We know about heavy metals and fish, plastic compounds and fish, chemical contaminants and farmed fish, antibiotics and steroids in farmed cattle, dyoxines and more. Carnivores will even eat their meat raw, exposing themselves to parasitic infections. Parasites inside cysts are often unsensitive to Hcl in the gastric juices.

 

 

 

[GhostofCircleKnight]

7 hours ago, Todd Allen said:

 

1) It bothers me to see unqualified statements about most any aspect of diet such as macro composition and especially anything so broad as animal foods or plant foods are good or bad.  Everything has trade offs and those trade offs vary dramatically from person to person with a huge number of genetic factors involved that we are just beginning to identify.  I made the mistake of believing a low fat vegan diet was intrinsically healthy influenced by such commentary and it took me far too long to realize how inappropriate it was for myself.

2) There's a fair amount of evidence that whey protein is more effective than plant based proteins at stimulating insulin, IGF-1 and mTOR.  Probably because of the mix of amino acids, rich in both leucine and methionine.  It provides more precursors for glutathione which is desirable in my case.   In addition to the whey protein I eat a lot of eggs, fatty fish and organ meats, especially liver and heart, for a variety of reasons.  Animal foods uniquely provide B12, creatine, carnitine, and carnosine and are good sources of the best forms of omega-3s, important phospholipids and many micronutrients such as zinc and iron.

3) I readily accept the potential tradeoff of increased cancer risk,  cancer is a less common cause of death with SBMA.  It's possible my diet is increasing my risk of cardiovascular disease which is an increased cause of death with SBMA where dyslipidemia is super common.  With my diet and lifestyle changes, despite massive improvements in triglycerides and HDL, my doc became concerned about my rising LDL, most recently 199, especially since statins aren't a good option due to their effects on mitochondria and muscle.  But after a day of many tests in cardiology, despite their best efforts they were unable to find any sign of cardiovascular disease and advanced lipid testing suggests my LDL profile is good and low risk.   So I'm not much concerned there either.

4) Another supposed risk of animal foods, especially saturated fat, is increased risk of diabetes.  Rate of progression of SBMA is correlated to insulin resistance and SBMA plus diabetes is awful.  But my experience has been the opposite, I've completely reversed all signs of metabolic syndrome and achieved stable low normal blood sugar and very low fasting insulin with 70+% of calories from fat, including significant amounts of saturated fat.  I've also reversed many medical issues associated with diabetes such as peripheral neuropathy which I developed despite never having blood glucose levels quite high enough to be diagnosed diabetic.  There's evidence ketogenic diets fix diabetes in many if not most people though perhaps it is further biased by SBMA.  Mice genetically engineered to have SBMA lived twice as long on a high fat diet as ones on standard mouse chow while wild type mice do poorly on the high fat diet.

1) It is not an unqualified statement. We have studies linking higher animal protein intake to an earlier death. Without data on how it affects the average human being, it is like throwing darts blindfolded. After we have some idea, then we can personalize our diet, and sure, one's mileage may vary per food item, but as a whole our biologies are more similar than they are different if we are reductionist about it. Generally most animal products have a lot more in common when juxtaposed with plant foods, but yes it is a spectrum with fish arguably not being as bad as say, carcinogenic processed meat. For your case I certainly didn't recommend a low fat plantbased diet, even if others erroneously did the past, but I see you didn't comment about my mention of a high fat, higher protein plantbased keto diet and its potential merits. 

2) Generally speaking, the plant proteins I have consumed in the past had ample amounts of leucine and methionine (and cysteine for the glutathionine) (they were made out of peas and rice). But I think it is fair to state that even at equal doses of those two amino acids, (at least compared to fast acting whey), they would have a smaller, but not insignificant, mtor effect. And this is likely because whey protein has either a different combination ratio of other amino acids to leu/met or it could be the presence of some small amount of growth factors/hormones present in the whey protein (perhaps). Nevertheless, unless attempted or measured by yourself, we'd have no data if it were just as ideal or not. 

>In addition to the whey protein I eat a lot of eggs, fatty fish and organ meats, especially liver and heart, for a variety of reasons.  
This sounds a bit dangerous to be honest (risk of vitamin A toxicity from the liver), but I wish you the best. 

B12 isn't hard to come by with fortified foods or supplements one could take once one a week. And unless a person is eating the level of animal products you are they are likely deficient in or have sub optimal b-12 anyway. In fact, factory farmed animals get routinely supplemented with b-12 too because they are not fed the foods that allow for optimal growth of the bacteria that makes it. 

I believe your body slows its production of endogenous creatine once creatine stores reach max, but I don't know what your daily dose is estimated to be. I do not have enough data to indicate if high carnitine or carnosine is a good thing, but if one's body's own production of these two decline with age, supplementing or getting them from diet may not be a bad idea. In fact, high carnitine may be a bad thing due to higher TMAO production. 

Micronutrients aren't hard to come by on a plant based diet, except if one was a fruititarian or starchitarian and the like. 
Actually animal sources are not the best sources of omega-3s because omega-3s found in fish tend to have a higher peroxide value, on average. I am basing my evidence off of fish oil, and actual fish may be even worse due to higher air exposure. 

https://labdoor.com/rankings/fish-oil/quality

https://labdoor.com/rankings/vegan-omega-3/quality

3) Best wishes regarding this category and I hope you avoid both cancer and heart disease and that the LDL stays under control. Though given LDL, isn't the case where size of the particle matters more than number of the particle? I'm ignorant regarding this category and it is something I haven't researched thoroughly. 

4) Keto still perplexes me. I'm glad in your case/condition that the benefits were remarkable and in line with the available data, but I can't explain why it has the opposite effect in some other cases (albeit not SBMA cases). But I maintain open and eager to see what keto can and cannot do!

 

 

 

 

[GhostofCircleKnight]

1. Yes, I am glad for this discussion and also believe we both made defendable points. 

2. Yeah that makes sense, and I can for the most part concur. Though I may add it may be percent protein that also matters. Since people incorporating animal products have higher protein intakes in terms of macro % in general, I don't know to what degree the studies on the effect of whey vs plant proteins on rising IGF took this confounding variable into consideration. Vegans have lower igf, sure, but they also eat less protein in terms of %s. A perfect experiment would compare the IGF levels of keto and non-keto vegans and non-vegans who eat the same amount of macro protein, but I have not been able to find that. 

3. Interesting hypothesis, and reasonable given the catabolic state, best of fortune in that pursuit. 

4. One thing for certain, it appears IGF-1 signalling declines with age, so higher protein intake is advisable as one ages. But I'm generally young so I can get away with a 13% protein diet, but every decade following I may bump it up by 1%. Didn't know about the Laron dwarfs, will go and give them a read. 

Regarding contamination, I accept that recommendation and moderate that which I know is more risky (like the rice). I'm glad that it is not something I have to worry about too much so long as regulation controls remain operable and present. 

[Todd Allen]

Just got back my results this AM from 23andme and ran my data through the report generator at FoundMyFitness.  Turns out I have many polymorphisms making veganism or vegetarianism problematic.  Very poor beta-carotene conversion to active vitamin A, poor B12 absorption, poor phosphatidylcholine synthesis and poor conversion of homocysteine to methionine especially when phosphatidylcholine or B12 is low, gluten intolerance and several polymorphisms of modest effect elevating blood sugar in different ways.

And then in the report section on genes of normal function were a bunch related to fat metabolism and saturated fat indicating no elevated risks there.   Had one polymorphism suggesting reduced PPAR gamma activation with additional dietary PUFA the suggested compensation.  And since going keto I dramatically increased all fat types including PUFA.

[GhostofCircleKnight]

To be frank, I don't know how accurate the FoundMyFitness report is. There are problems associated with the conclusions of present genetic tests to begin with regard to SNPs, but even if yours is accurate, I don't know the extent of the problem or the confounding variables. I will give Rhonda the benefit of the doubt, but I need better data. 

For instance. How poor?
Most b-12 gummies or tablets are 1000%+ percent, and some animals or animal products have little to no b-12 at all, hence why the animals themselves are supplemented.

Very poor beta-carotene conversion- how poor compared to the average? Does a particular SNP render 10% less conversion, for instance, or 90%? From what I know about beta-carotene processing mutations, usually I'd expect something around the ballpark of 50% less conversion on average, + or - 20%. But thankfully it is easy to get 1000% the required pro-vitamins eating yellow- orange or green vegetables, so even if conversion was impaired, the limiting factor is how fast the body can convert rather than if it is getting enough of a pro-vitamin. This way there are no risks of vitamin A toxicity. Perhaps though this is a greater problem in old age compared to youth. Still, aside from b-carotene, what about other carotenoids that might be converted to retinol differently? There are a lot more unknowns. 

While I am sympathetic toward your conclusion that veganism or vegetarianism may be difficult given your conditions, aside from gluten intolerance, I don't have much to go on. Ultimately serum measurements of retinol, b-12, homocysteine, would be the final say in all of this. 

 

[mccoy]

 

6 hours ago, GhostofCircleKnight said:

...Though I may add it may be percent protein that also matters. Since people incorporating animal products have higher protein intakes in terms of macro % in general, I don't know to what degree the studies on the effect of whey vs plant proteins on rising IGF took this confounding variable into consideration. Vegans have lower igf, sure, but they also eat less protein in terms of %s. A perfect experiment would compare the IGF levels of keto and non-keto vegans and non-vegans who eat the same amount of macro protein, but I have not been able to find that. 

As I've written in another post, providing numbers, animal foods provide lots of protein with high Leucine and Methionine in a little bulk, so it's much easier to hit high protein percentages than with plant based food and those protein have significant anabolic properties. Of course a comparison should entail equal macros.

On the other hand, Soy and legumes are rich in leucine and Torre Washington, the vegan bodybuilder, built a massive and shredded natural body with 100 to 150 gr plant based protein per day, which is about one half the protein usually eaten by omnivore bodybuilders. He's a natural of course (no gynecomastia visible, no freakishly huge muscles, no protruding belly) and even says he started with no supplementation at all.  Favourable genetic plays a role of course here.

[Todd Allen]

I don't know how accurate the 23andme data is or its interpretation either but it appears to fit well with my experiences.  They do have extensive disclaimers about potential shortcomings and suggest the info should only be used for discussion with ones physician with a need to confirm issues through other forms of testing as opposed to acting directly on genetic data.

When I was vegetarian eating a fair amount of eggs, cheese and a little fish my neurologist found my neuropathies atypically broad and severe for SBMA.  He tested my B12 status and started me on injections, saying my damagingly low level suggested a significant problem with B12 and I'd likely need injections for life though they could taper me off the daily injections quickly.  After about a year of monthly injections with stable blood results I suggested I hadn't been tested before during my previous many years of vegetarianism and veganism when I was oblivious to the possibility of B12 deficiency induced neuropathy and I pushed to see if we could suspend the injections and keep my level sufficient using supplements.  And we did.   But when I can I prefer food to supplements and I have found that roughly averaging 2+ ounces of B12 rich organ meats daily along with a lot more fish and eggs has stabilized my B12 at a sufficient level without additional supplements.

For beta carotene I have a double mutation on one gene that suggest a loss of conversion efficiency by 79% and a mutation on an upstream gene suggesting 59% reduced expression of the first gene with a potential result of less than 9% of the expected conversion rate.  Following links to references suggest there appear to be additional unknown genes and mutations which can also reduce vitamin A status.  I wasn't suspecting vitamin A deficiency, but my low light vision was deteriorating and my immune status was much worse previously.  My liver intake alone has me significantly exceeding the vit. A rda but I've had no sign of vit. A poisoning.

The mutant protein in my disease accumulates in the nucleus of cells, most dramatically in skeletal muscle but also in other tissues, and it has been found to broadly affect expression of other genes, mostly down regulating, and it might be a factor further impacting the results of most any of the SNPs scanned by 23andme.

The gluten intolerance I never suspected though I thought I had developed an odd delayed intolerance of pretty much all legumes that resulted in symptoms like celiac disease with bad diarrhea and incapacitating abdominal pain about 3 days after eating a few ounces.  Eliminating them kept me in my normal condition of mild IBS.  After going keto the IBS went away.  I've been diligent about not eating grains except for small amounts of kefir fermented oats due to the poor ratios of protein, fat and micronutrients for the carb load.  But I discovered my intolerance of legumes has abated, first with small servings of natto'd black beans.  Then I added fenugreek to my regular sprouts rotation and recently I've been able to eat small amounts of mung bean, lentils and split peas without issue.  I've been too afraid to try soy as it became my worst intolerance but perhaps it is ok now too.  Based on my report results I'm guessing if I reintroduced gluten grains the IBS and intolerance of all legumes could return but I have no desire to test it.

I've learned other interesting things from the report such as I have a double mutation that prevents the production of a protein ACTN3 important to muscle function, impairing fast twitch muscle and increasing damage and recovery time from endurance activities and probably contributes to my finding best results from frequent brief maximally intense exercise which I had assumed was largely due to SBMA although standard advice to SBMA patients is high volume gentle exercise activity to 70% fatigue.  And the trimethylglycine I've been supplementing with for other reasons is recommended for normalizing homocysteine with my polymorphisms even though it can significantly raise total cholesterol which I also experienced since adding it but attributed to other factors.

[mccoy]

8 hours ago, Todd Allen said:

For beta carotene I have a double mutation on one gene that suggest a loss of conversion efficiency by 79% and a mutation on an upstream gene suggesting 59% reduced expression of the first gene with a potential result of less than 9% of the expected conversion rate.  Following links to references suggest there appear to be additional unknown genes and mutations which can also reduce vitamin A status.  I wasn't suspecting vitamin A deficiency, but my low light vision was deteriorating and my immune status was much worse previously.  My liver intake alone has me significantly exceeding the vit. A rda but I've had no sign of vit. A poisoning.

Todd, do you have any references on this betacarotene to retinol conversion polymorphism?

Re. vit B12: you shouldn't need organ meats, as you probably know mussels and octopus are icredibly rich sources of such nutrient. Maybe you are eating organ meats for the whole bunch of nutrients available. 

[Todd Allen]

More exploration of my genetic data found twenty risk factors for Chron's disease several are serious homozygous mutations which if they combined arithmetically puts me at a little over 3400 X risk for developing Chron's which apparently has a very fuzzy prevalence, NIH cites 28 to 199 per 100,000.   After reading the wikipedia page on the disease I'd say it is significantly better than a 50% match for what I've experienced.  It is also linked to poor nutrient absorption and the various deficiency issues I've struggled with such as B12 and D.  One discrepancy is diets high in fat supposedly increase the risk and yet I had rapid relief after going high fat - perhaps it was just the removal of gluten grains.

[Todd Allen]

And I've got

 rs613872(G;G) bad:3.06 0.49%(rare) ~20-30x higher risk for Fuchs' dystrophy, a corneal disorder

which might be an alternate explanation for my low light vision impairment as opposed to vitamin A deficiency.

 

[Todd Allen]

Here's a free paper linked to by my multiple BCO1 SNPs which explains vit A metabolism and how many SNPs affect it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5372909/

and another paper linked to by my ISX SNP - unfortunately not free but 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26063065/

but available to pirates at

https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.3945/jn.115.212837

[Todd Allen]

7 hours ago, mccoy said:

Maybe you are eating organ meats for the whole bunch of nutrients available. 

I've got two sources for local pastured/grass-fed meats covering beef, lamb, pork and poultry that deliver roughly monthly to pick up sites near me in Chicago that I can reach by bicycle or my mobility scooter each with decent selections of organs, bones and fats.  Both operations have numerous videos showing their animal husbandry and offer tours of their farms which makes me more comfortable buying from them.  Mussels give me a rash and I don't have a source of octopus I feel good about although I have good sources for herring, mackerel and salmon.  Also I know it sounds crazy but after having seen videos of octopi displaying some amazing behaviors I'm less interested in eating them.  Also, the organ meats are unpopular and I like being a contrarian.

[Todd Allen]

Found a fun tool for creating quick pictures of ones gene profile with respect to various topics.  I'm glad CR trumps genes...

Good thing I stopped taking pioglitazone even though it was amazing for my blood sugar

This gene stuff is starting to look like crap because I've always been insanely happy.  Though maybe this explains my dad shooting himself in the head when I was born...

[mccoy]

On 1/11/2019 at 7:16 PM, Todd Allen said:

IAlso I know it sounds crazy but after having seen videos of octopi displaying some amazing behaviors I'm less interested in eating them.  Also, the organ meats are unpopular and I like being a contrarian.

No, it doesn't sound crazy, I'd never eat nor hurt an octopus and I like to see them swimming in the water, not cooked on a plate (ditto for other aquatic creatures).

And being a contrarian is a darn good reason to eat organs, although in the paleo world I believe eating organs is a common behaviour, at least it's a praised practice.

 

[Todd Allen]

1 hour ago, mccoy said:

And being a contrarian is a darn good reason to eat organs, although in the paleo world I believe eating organs is a common behaviour, at least it's a praised practice.

Part of the contrarian comment is organ meats here are roughly 30% of the price of common meat cuts and local small farm organic pastured/grass fed products are often 3+ times the prices of supermarket industrial ag CAFO products.  Conventional meats are cheap in part due to the low cost of bad animal husbandry.  It eases my conscience to think my responsibility for the death of the well cared for animals supporting my diet is proportional to what I spend on their meats and I choose lower cost offal that can mesh with my dietary goals.  The prices of local grassfed meats and especially offal are rising fairly quickly perhaps due to increasing popularity of paleo and related things so the contrarian advantage may evaporate.

Dr. Terry Wahls a physician who lost the ability to walk due to progressive MS wrote a book, The Wahls Protocol, about her turn around to full mobility largely through diet which is a core element of the MS clinic she now runs with good results for many patients.  The diet is a leafy greens centered paleo'ish keto diet with fish and organ meats important protein sources and evoo, avocado, coconut and other nuts if tolerated the primary fats.  Because MS is largely an auto-immune condition she suggests restricting many foods which can stimulate the immune system such as eggs in addition to most everything typically restricted on paleo - grains, dairy, etc. and the carb restriction of keto.  Emphasis is on food quality: freshness, minimal oxidation and damage to foods in storage and preparation - cold dark storage, toss old food, high quality filtered water, minimal moist low temp cooking, no plastics, aluminum, copper and other leachable containers, cookware and utensils, clear the house of most chemicals, cleansers, personal care products,  etc. 

My disease is different so I was influenced by her choices but have adjusted things as best I can to fit my circumstances and reactions as best I can perceive them.  I've incorporated things others are using to treat other "untreatable" neurological diseases such as Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and ALS since no medical practice is developing a protocol for my disease.  Many neurological,  neuromuscular and chronic age related diseases have a metabolic component with mitochondrial dysfunction and destruction part of the pathology though in different ways in varying tissues.  Minimizing disruptors, addressing proteostasis and ramping up mitophagy and mitogenesis while supplying needed substrates and creating a hormonal profile conducive to regeneration of damaged tissues are common goals.

In my disease in addition to IGF-1 another peptide hormone PACAP which typically drops very low as the disease progresses has been found to slow disease when over expressed.  It's believed it can be administered via nasal inhalation bypassing the trouble of frequent injections needed for IGF-1.  But I question the wisdom of dumping exogenous regulatory hormones into our bodies when we can manipulate them through conditions we are evolved to handle.  Poorly understood complex machinery should be operated using the designed interface and not back door hacks.   PACAP release appears most strongly stimulated by glucagon while IGF-1 is most strongly stimulated by growth hormone.   Glucagon and growth hormone are both counter regulatory to insulin, raising blood sugar.  Insulin resistance with hyperinsulinemia is highly correlated to disease progression.  I've reversed all signs of metabolic syndrome/hyperinsulinemia and have been achieving low normal blood sugar through keto and fasting which has been key to scoring high IGF-1 levels and probably is key for PACAP too.  Protein ingestion in a glycogen depleted state looks like a good strategy for strongly raising glucagon and thus PACAP as well as insulin and IGF-1.  PACAP has been found essential to the thermogenic response of brown fat and is likely up regulated by cold exposure though I have yet to see the effect studied or measured in people.  I can't yet measure PACAP, the diagnostic services I can use for IGF-1 such as Quest, don't do it so I'm more focused on IGF-1 and just toying around with things that might be boosting PACAP until I can measure it.  Ideally I want to measure my peptide hormones at home myself to better explore manipulating them but I don't yet know how expensive and challenging that will be.

 

[mccoy]

I read the Wahls protocol, hard to say why it's successful at times (there are no controlled trials), maybe it constitutes a kind of CR mimetic.