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How should we distribute our intake of vegetables from an optimal nutrition standpoint?

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On 1/22/2019 at 7:12 PM, Saul said:

As Luigi Fontana (chairman of the Dept. of Nutrition, and MD), who tested many of us (myself, Michael Rae, and about 2 dozen others), severe CR, with adequate nutrition, and moderate (or somewhat reduced) protein, appears to extend healthspan and possibly also lifespan.

Saul,

Gordo is right and you've mischaracterized Luigi's perspective. Luigi doesn't believe "severe CR" is wise for humans. Here is an excerpt from my report of the private discussion he and I had on my visit to WUSTL for his human CR study in 2013, when I was practicing what most people (except Michael) would consider reasonably "severe" CR (BMI ~17.5):

When I asked questions about "how low is too low?" (with regard to IGF-1, BMI, or any biomarkers of successful CR) he [Luigi] repeatedly said that we just don't know, even for rodents, to say nothing of people. He said recent data in another lab suggests different strains of mice respond differently to CR - some live longest on 40% CR (and don't live as long with more severe CR) while others live longest all the way up to 70% CR. He said if he had the money, he'd do studies to determine what biomarkers are indicative of an animal being in the CR "sweet spot", but alas he lamented that NIH funding goes more to yeast and biochemical pathway research than seemingly more informative animal and human experiments. Funding he says is tough for his kind of research, but he's getting by on some government grants and some private funding.
 
But if he had to guess, he said I'm taking a risk being as low as I am in some of the markers (particularly IGF-1), and thought it would be wise to gain some weight. He said it would be safer, and referred, for example, to difficulty I might experience recovering from an accident (e.g. car crash) that might make it hard for me to volitionally gain or maintain weight necessary to heal (e.g. if in coma or otherwise impaired state).

--Dean

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On 1/24/2019 at 4:37 PM, mccoy said:

Aren't the blood pressure values too low (even though they say the lower the better if without symptoms)?

Also, glucose < 74 mg/dL might seem very little.

There is no optimum for these values?

I'm a little skeptic about 'the lower the better' since there must obviously be a lower bound which does not allow the system to work properly.

Clinical low blood pressure is when there is fainting/vertigo, poor circulation, or poor responsiveness to exercise.  My BP is usually 90-105/60-65–more often lower than higher. No issues because it’s not due to illness. At under 100/60 while pregnant I couldn’t stand up too fast though!

My blood glucose is nailed to 70 when I haven’t eaten quite recently. That’s at the bottom of the normal range. I have extremely responsive tissues, that’s all. I eat about 70% carbs. I like carbs, and my insulin sensitivity is great, so why not?

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6 hours ago, Genny said:

Clinical low blood pressure is when there is fainting/vertigo, poor circulation, or poor responsiveness to exercise.  My BP is usually 90-105/60-65–more often lower than higher. No issues because it’s not due to illness. At under 100/60 while pregnant I couldn’t stand up too fast though!

My blood glucose is nailed to 70 when I haven’t eaten quite recently. That’s at the bottom of the normal range. I have extremely responsive tissues, that’s all. I eat about 70% carbs. I like carbs, and my insulin sensitivity is great, so why not?

I had stand-up problems when a young boy, I remember, sometimes I fainted and fell down. Maybe very low pressure.

What about fats? I presume you eat in the region of 15-20%. Very good blood sugar values though, especially the postpradial ones.

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13 hours ago, mccoy said:

I had stand-up problems when a young boy, I remember, sometimes I fainted and fell down. Maybe very low pressure.

What about fats? I presume you eat in the region of 15-20%. Very good blood sugar values though, especially the postpradial ones.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm eating--more toward 20% than 15%.  My total triglycerides got down to the level of a dying person (105!), so I consciously added more nuts and oils--EVEN STORE MAYO, PEANUT BUTTER, AND SALAD DRESSING, OH NOES. lol.  But mostly nuts and olive oil.  Now it's quite a bit higher (130s), but ALL of the increase was "good" cholesterol, so I have some absurd ratio now that puts my heart disease risk into the lowest measurable bracket.

I am not vegan or vegetarian, but I just tend to eat small amounts of meat. My grandfather was raised Seventh Day Adventist, and the habits sort of rolled down the generations.  I will have a steak or a burger once every couple of months, I guess--I eat them at restaurants only.  I can't even cook a steak or a hamburger.  I don't know how.

I have stuff I try to eat:  beans, veg, salads (not soaked in unhealthy salad dressing or piled with cheese), WHOLE grains, berries, another fruit of some sort every day, nuts, olive oil, fatty fish, seaweed, spices.  I have stuff I eat happily but don't make an effort to eat because I get plenty with no effort: chicken (get plenty just as long as I'm paying attention to eat meat), eggs, turkey, dark chocolate, some other plant oils in moderation.  I have stuff that I limit because I like it TOO much:  dairy, refined grains, preserved meats, refined sugar.  But I'm not a CRONie.  I don't track my meals daily, though I do run test weeks,  I don't restrict by any CRONie definition--I'm eating like 2000+ calories a day because I've got a treadmill desk and I exercise, too!  And I don't sweat small deviations from ideal, and I will also eat completely normal things.  I had some frozen pizza today because my husband made it.  It was moderately awful, and it definitely wan't good for me, but I'll have my salad and berries and some veg and oranges later, so I just don't worry about it.

I also don't freak out over how much I exercise.  I run 12-20 miles a week generally at a very slow pace.  I've done 10 miles at a gentle pace before.  I've never done a 10k race or even a 5k race since I was a little kid--I run because it's a pleasant way to get all the cardiovascular adaptations, and it's efficient for my schedule.  I try to lift 3x per week but sometimes only do 2x or occasionally only 1x.  I work on whole-body fitness, but I also do extra work on my butt because if I'm putting in some effort, I'm going to be hot as well as healthy.  🙂  This gets me ZERO additional health benefits, I am sure!

I really think that like 20% of the effort (versus the ideal) will get at least 80% of the benefits, and that going beyond the ideal (TOO thin, TOO lean, TOO protein-restricted, TOO high of a mileage) is more severely counterproductive than being a bit under it.

I supplement modestly with Vit D and take curcumin, too--it helps with the pain associated with a rare channelopathy that I have.

Edited by Genny

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Hi,

What is this "evodo" polyphenol supplement that you refer to?

Why are you limiting your omega 6 intake to 10 grams?

In 2002, the Food and Nutrition Board of the U.S. Institute of Medicine established adequate intake (AI) levels for omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids 

They established an Adequate Intake (AI) for omega 6, linoleic acid, which is 14 grams for males over the age of 51.

Yes, I know about the recommended ratios of omega 3 to omega 6, etc etc........

I'm just comparing the AI, Adequate Intake, of Omega 6 linoleic acid......to your maximimum daily 10 grams.

I also fall short of the recommendations for omega 6, and this is why I bring it up.

 

 

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