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Saul

TNF alpha , CRP and CRON

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CRON is well known to greatly reduce inflammation.  For years, I've been measuring CRP and TNF_alpha, which are supposed to be measurements of inflammation.  All but once, I've gotten CRP <5, meaning immeasurably low.  All but the last two measurements (in 2016 and 2017) were vanishingly small for TNF_alpha as well -- but the last two measurements were surprisingly high.  So a major contradiction between CRP (vanishingly small) and TNF_alpha (high) on these last two measurements.

Weird.

I asked my CR friendly nephrologist.  He didn't know; suggested that I check with some of the CRONNies -- I guess he thinks it possible that it might be one of the weird looking numbers that happen with CR.

So I'm following his advice.  Anybody -- who is knowledgeable in the mechanisms of these proteins -- have any ideas?

  --  Saul

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...it might be one of the weird looking numbers that happen with CR. 

 

Some evidence that CR would be expected to lower TNF alpha levels  ( Hopefully, others more knowledgeable than me will chime in):

Long-term caloric restriction ameliorates the decline in diastolic function in humans.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16517142

Quote

Abstract

OBJECTIVES:

We determined whether caloric restriction (CR) has cardiac-specific effects that attenuate the established aging-associated impairments in diastolic function (DF).

BACKGROUND:

Caloric restriction retards the aging process in small mammals; however, no information is available on the effects of long-term CR on human aging. In healthy individuals, Doppler echocardiography has established the pattern of aging-associated DF impairment, whereas little change is observed in systolic function (SF).

METHODS:

Diastolic function was assessed in 25 subjects (age 53 +/- 12 years) practicing CR for 6.5 +/- 4.6 years and 25 age- and gender-matched control subjects consuming Western diets. Diastolic function was quantified by transmitral flow, Doppler tissue imaging, and model-based image processing (MBIP) of E waves. C-reactive protein (CRP), tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha), and transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) were also measured.

RESULTS:

No difference in SF was observed between groups; however, standard transmitral Doppler flow DF indexes of the CR group were similar to those of younger individuals, and MBIP-based, flow-derived DF indexes, reflecting chamber viscoelasticity and stiffness, were significantly lower than in control subjects. Blood pressure, serum CRP, TNF-alpha, and TGF-beta(1) levels were significantly lower in the CR group (102 +/- 10/61 +/- 7 mm Hg, 0.3 +/- 0.3 mg/l, 0.8 +/- 0.5 pg/ml, 29.4 +/- 6.9 ng/ml, respectively) compared with the Western diet group (131 +/- 11/83 +/- 6 mm Hg, 1.9 +/- 2.8 mg/l, 1.5 +/- 1.0 pg/ml, 35.4 +/- 7.1 ng/ml, respectively).

CONCLUSIONS:

Caloric restriction has cardiac-specific effects that ameliorate aging-associated changes in DF. These beneficial effects on cardiac function might be mediated by the effect of CR on blood pressure, systemic inflammation, and myocardial fibrosis.

 

Calorie Restriction Appears Better Than Exercise At Slowing Primary Aging

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060531164818.htm

 

Quote

[...]For the new study, researchers examined 28 members of the Calorie Restriction Society who had been eating a CR diet for an average of six years. Although the CR group consumed fewer calories -- averaging only about 1,800 per day -- they consumed at least 100 percent of the recommended daily amounts of protein and micronutrients. A second group of 28 study subjects was sedentary, and they ate a standard Western diet. A third group in the study ate a standard Western diet -- approximately 2,700 calories per day -- but also did endurance training.

[...]Fontana says lower levels of T3, cholesterol and the inflammatory molecules TNF and C-reactive protein, combined with evidence of "younger" hearts in people on calorie restriction, suggest that humans on CR have the same adaptive responses as did animals whose rates of aging were slowed by CR.

 

See also:

Neuroendocrine Factors in the Regulation of Inflammation: Excessive Adiposity and Calorie Restriction

Luigi Fontana, MD, PhD

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652518/

 

Long-Term Calorie Restriction Enhances Cellular Quality-Control Processes in Human Skeletal Muscle.

Cell Rep. 2016 Jan 26;14(3):422-428. doi: 10.1016/j.celrep.2015.12.042. Epub 2016 Jan 7.
 

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Hi Sibiriac!

Yes; i was one of those in Luigi's study.  And, my CRP and TNF_alpha have been vanishingly small in repeated measurements for 20 years or so.  CRP has been vanishingly low throughout -- but the last two measurements of TNF_alpha (in 2016 and June 2017)were weirdly high.

That's supposed to be impossible -- if CRP is low, TNF_alpha should be too.  My nephrologist doesn't know what tomake of it-- neither do I.

  --  Saul

 

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16 hours ago, Saul said:

I've gotten CRP <5, meaning immeasurably low.  ... CRP (vanishingly small)

If your CRP is <5, it's definitely not vanishingly small. On the contrary - it's actually rather high. 'Vanishingly' small would by something like <0.1

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hi Iporuru!

I'm sorry; the fifure that /i always get is actually 

<1 mg/L

for CRP.

 

For TNF_alpha, all but the last two tests:  

<5 pg/mL

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Hmmm.....

MAYBE I've figured it out:  I've recently been diagnosed with a small basal cell carcinoma on my chest.  This is the most common skin cancer --- and the slowest and most benign.  It probably came from sunburn on unprotected skin.  I'm arranging to have the sarcoma surgically removed, by the same surgeon who removed a similar tumor from my wife's nose.

Is this hypothesis plausible?  Many of you are more medically knowledgeable than I am.  Your expertice appreciated.

  --  Saul

 

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