Kava Kava and Longevity

[FrederickSebastian]

Hi all,

I have recently got myself down to drinking less than 10 caffeinated beverages all before 2:00PM, which doesn't sound like much, but for me it's a feat.

My question is this:: I drink several cups of coffee, espresso and green tea early on in the day but later on (say 6:00PM-8:00PM) I have got in the habit of drinking "sleepytime" tea mixed with "Kava Kava" herbal tea and lots of it! This makes me feel incredibly relaxed and allows my crazed mind to settle down for the day and the more kava kava I have, it seems, the better and deeper and higher-quality of my sleep... I was, for a time, prescribed trazodone, which is a sleeping pill that doubles as an antidepressant and, for the longest time, I was taking it first thing in the morning to calm myself down... It did wonders for my depression... I am wondering, if I still have depression in say, a year or two, I could take a very potent (the post potent I've tried!) downer such as the trazodone every day without sacrificing my longevity... Are downers, such as trazodone or kava a good thing or a bad thing? I have heard caffeine is good for your blood sugar but I really wanna kick the habit by the end of the year... What do we think?

[Mike41]

http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5770e.pdf

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/kava-kava#section4

it seems to come down to sources and dosages. The natural sources in moderation have been deemed safe, see above, but the supplemental extracts are more dicey especially wrt hepatotoxicity 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Mike41

[Ron Put]

Gawd, I haven't had kava in ages.  Be aware that very rarely kava can cause liver damage, which is why it's banned from sale in the EU, as far as I know.

Isn't pot a more efficient way to calm thyself?

[drewab]

Is there not some irony to the fact that you drink several cups of caffeinated beverages with are stimulating early in the day only to then try to counteract the effect with other substances? It sounds like the amount of caffeine you are consuming could be problematic. I say 'could be' since we all respond a little differently to caffeine. I can tolerate about 100mg/day max. For a brief time, I was up to 500mg daily in the form of black coffee and I was a total wreck. Almost anything would put me into the 'fight or flight' response and my nervous system was always on edge. 

Having said that, it sounds like reducing your caffeine consumption thus far has been a feat, so keep up the good work. 

[Mike41]

On 5/1/2020 at 9:26 PM, Ron Put said:

Gawd, I haven't had kava in ages.  Be aware that very rarely kava can cause liver damage, which is why it's banned from sale in the EU, as far as I know.

Isn't pot a more efficient way to calm thyself?

According to WHO, see post above, clinical trials using 140-250 mg Daily for up to 6 weeks of kavalactones are essentially  Non toxic. Two problems wrt to toxicity, dose and sources which are often contaminated with mold spores which are very hepatotoxic. At very high doses the effects can be liver toxic, but no fatalities have been reported AFAIK. As far as pot is concerned I would be dubious if you mean smoking it. Can’t be good for the lungs I would not think

[Ron Put]

3 hours ago, Mike41 said:

According to WHO, see post above, clinical trials using 140-250 mg Daily for up to 6 weeks of kavalactones are essentially  Non toxic. Two problems wrt to toxicity, dose and sources which are often contaminated with mold spores which are very hepatotoxic. At very high doses the effects can be liver toxic, but no fatalities have been reported AFAIK. As far as pot is concerned I would be dubious if you mean smoking it. Can’t be good for the lungs I would not think

I agree with you, Mike, although I just read that kava is also banned in Canada, again because of the potential toxicity. It does seem like an overreaction, given the remote likelihood.

As for pot, I use it before bedtime. I use a vape, which presumably does not burn, although who knows.  I also buy legal cartridges from reputable stores, so the vitamin E issue should not be a factor.

But I have never seen anything to indicate that long term pot use is associated with lung disease.  One explanation, apart from the relatively lower toxicity than tobacco, is that the several puffs one normally takes are not enough to cause any real damage (tobacco smokers inhale much, much larger amount of smoke each day).

[Saul]

Hi Ron!

We all like to believe that what we're doing is fine.

But the evidence is strong that vaping is no better than smoking -- whatever junk you're inhaling.

You might do better to take some kind of relaxing drug before bed rather than vaping.

  --  Saul

[Ron Put]

Hi, Saul.  I guess you are right about the inherent bias in how I view pot. I take a pill with 20mg THC in the evening and as I wind down I take approximately 5 puffs from a PAX vaporizer.

I have gone back and forth, sometimes I stop for a few months, then restart for random reasons. But it does help me sleep and it does appear to drop my resting heart rate by a couple of beats per minute compared to times when I don't do pot (usually around 48 bpm nowadays, according to Fitbit, although it drops to as low as 40 bpm while sleeping (average about 43-44).  Alcohol on the other hand significantly increases my RHR for a couple of days after imbibing (by about 3-4 beats pm).

Interestingly, I have been checking my blood pressure at home lately (just because) and while I always thought pot increased blood pressure, mine seems to stay put.  For instance, I checked last night, after the pill and the vape, properly seated at a table, and my BP was 99/65 (it fluctuates up to a high reading of 125/76 over the last week or so, with an average of 112/69 with 49bpm pulse, using Qardio Arm).

Again, it's logical that inhaling smoke particles is rarely a good thing, so I will probably eventually move to just edibles, or just stop totally.

Here is an interesting study:

"This review clearly shows that chronic marijuana smoking is associated with respiratory symptoms and increase in FVC. The mechanisms for these effects and the differences from the effects of tobacco remain unclear. More work needs to accurately measure cannabis use as well as measure all aspects of respiratory health, particularly breathlessness and exercise tolerance. More importantly, however, there needs to be larger, longer-term studies with marijuana smokers who do not smoke tobacco.

There is clear evidence that marijuana causes similar symptoms to tobacco smoking (chronic bronchitis) and produces similar large airway pathological features. There is some evidence that the combination of tobacco and marijuana is additive. Tobacco unequivocally causes chronic airflow obstruction and COPD but only in a minority of smokers. Cannabis smoking, however, produces an increase in FVC and the reason(s) for this are unclear and require elucidation. Taking a more detailed history with regard to cannabis smoking and other illicit inhalational drugs should be part of the standard respiratory assessment of all patients, which would also support better epidemiological data collection for future studies, particularly in the primary care population."