Antioxidants - pathogenic for the heart, in excess

[TomBAvoider]

The antioxident craze has been going on for decades, and despite a lot of pushback over the years, you still constantly read about a diet or food that's healthy because of "antioxidants", not to mention supplements. Perhaps the tide will slowly start to turn, when the idea of harm in excess antioxidants takes hold:

Surplus Antioxidants Are Pathogenic For Hearts And Skeletal Muscle

[drewab]

It would be interesting to see the difference in supplements vs. anti-oxidants in diet and how that could affect outcomes. I'm inclined to believe that anti-oxidants found in the full matrix of food don't pose a problem, and in general, I specifically seek high-antioxidant foods. For example, I generally chose berries over bananas, sweet potatoes over potatoes, dark leafy greens over iceberg lettuce, and so forth. I'm sure that this means that my anti-oxidant intake is higher as a result and believes this will lead to modestly more positive outcomes. 

[mccoy]

We hinted at this topic in other threads. An excess of antioxidants (from supplements, probably not from natural foods) may interfere with the natural ROS signaling, which is a natural metabolic process. By googling  ROS + Navdeep Chandler, I found my own thread in this forum. The neatest thing is that by pasting the URL I paste the post image as well. This platform is excellent. congratulations to the administrators who chose it!

 

 

[TomBAvoider]

I listened to this episode when it came out. In general, I find the Attia medical-related podcasts very interesting, and listen to them when I jog (the other podcasts he has about "leadership" and the like, I skip).

Re: antioxidants from supplements vs food - well, we all know the danger from supplements, but I read once that you can overdo things with food too, I wish I could locate the paper - apparently there is such a thing as too many polyphenols from food - so I'm not sure we're off the hook here when it comes to food. And folks on this board are the very ones who might be candidates for "too many polyphenols or antioxidants from food". 

[TomBAvoider]

This is not the paper I'm thinking about, but here's one:

Risks and safety of polyphenol consumption

 

[mccoy]

The above article cites Paracelsus, who expresses in another words the hormetic principle (all substances are poisons, it's the dose which makes them poisonous).

Same goes for the healthy (in low dosages) polyphenols, which of course can become toxic in higher dosages. Tannin is an example, raw oak corns would kill us, as much as the saponins of raw beans can kill people.

[Ron Put]

Hm, wondering what amount of sulforaphane was used and how it translates to humans.

I am still eating my broccoli sprouts, however.

[corybroo]

Research Shows Cell Aging Can Be Slowed by Oxidants   [at least in yeast cells]

At high concentrations, reactive oxygen species — known as oxidants — are harmful to cells in all organisms and have been linked to aging. But a study from Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden, has now shown that low levels of the oxidant hydrogen peroxide can stimulate an enzyme that helps slow down the aging of yeast cells.

Larger amounts of oxidants can cause serious damage to DNA, cell membranes, and proteins for example.

Now, the new research from Chalmers University of Technology shows that the well-known oxidant hydrogen peroxide can actually slow down the aging of yeast cells. … It is also one of the oxidants formed in our metabolism that is harmful at higher concentrations.

the peroxiredoxins also help extend the life span of cells when they are subjected to calorie restriction. The mechanisms behind these functions have not yet been fully understood.

Several research groups, including Mikael Molin’s, have also shown that stimulation of peroxiredoxin activity, in particular, is what slows down the aging of cells, in organisms such as yeast, flies, and worms, when they receive fewer calories than normal through their food.

“Now we have found a new function of Tsa1,” says Cecilia Picazo, postdoctoral researcher at the Division of Systems and Synthetic Biology at Chalmers. “Previously, we thought that this enzyme simply neutralizes reactive oxygen species. But now we have shown that Tsa1 actually requires a certain amount of hydrogen peroxide to be triggered in order to participate in the process of slowing down the aging of yeast cells.”

Surprisingly, the study shows that Tsa1 does not affect the levels of hydrogen peroxide in aged yeast cells. On the contrary, Tsa1 uses small amounts of hydrogen peroxide to reduce the activity of a central signaling pathway when cells are getting fewer calories. The effects of this ultimately lead to a slowdown in cell division and processes linked to the formation of the cells’ building blocks.

Other studies have also shown that low levels of reactive oxygen species can be linked to several positive health effects. These oxidants are formed in the mitochondria, the ‘powerhouse’ of a cell, and the process, called mitohormesis, can be observed in many organisms, from yeast to mice. In mice, tumor growth is slowed by mitohormesis, while in roundworms it has been possible to link both peroxiredoxins and mitohormesis to the ability of the type 2 diabetes drug metformin to slow cellular aging.

 

[Mike41]

blue zones people and Chuck the supplements!

https://www.bluezones.com/recipes/food-guidelines/

Edited August 29, 2022 by Mike41