Newbie meal planning and micronutrients

[Almond]

Hi everyone! I'm experimenting a lot with my diet and I'm very interested in optimal nutrition. 

I wondered, do you track micronutrients that are not  on Chronometer? For example, the iodine, fluoride and biotine databases are incomplete, while other things like chloride, sulphur, silicon, boron, vandadium, molybdenum, k2, strontium and others are not considered. I'm especially interested in those of you who always eat the same planned meals. Did you do the math manually once and for all? Did you account for antinutrients and absorbtion somehow? 

Is there any of you who manages to have decent zn:cu, fe:cu and ca:mg ratios without supplements while still eating lots of vegs? How do you do it? And if you correct the ratios through supplements, do you take enough to achieve the ideal balance even if you go over the upper limit for that nutrient, or do you stay under that limit even if the ratio is not ideal? 

My current project would be to create a meal plan and following it for life with minor adjustments. 

I'm not sure about the food philosophy to follow either. Is there any of the veterans who still eat animal products except for fish? I know that vegans have to take a lot of supplements, but can you be pescatarian without supplements? I guess choline and b12 and sun/vit D would be needed 

Is there any of you who still eats small amounts of any of these (lean meats, non fat yogurt, aged cheese, seafood, liver, organic eggs, bone broth) in the context of a vegs heavy, unprocessed, slightly calorie restricted diet and still is aging well? I know about methionine, I just want your personal aneddotic evidence. 

How many servings of fruit and vegs do you eat every day? In the long term are their only disadvantages antinutrients and possibly digestive issues or is there some other problem I'm not seeing in exceeding? How big of a problem are those two? Did you have any negative experience with too much vegs? 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Almond

[mccoy]

18 hours ago, Almond said:

I wondered, do you track micronutrients that are not  on Chronometer...

I never did it, too much work, I'd need to be retired to do that. I even ceased to track my intake daily, although I try and calibrate the regimen occasionally

18 hours ago, Almond said:

Is there any of you who manages to have decent zn:cu, fe:cu and ca:mg ratios without supplements while still eating lots of vegs

Never did that. Too much micromanagement, although it is a personal choice.

18 hours ago, Almond said:

I know that vegans have to take a lot of supplements, but can you be pescatarian without supplements? I guess choline and b12 and sun/vit D would be needed 

Definitely yes. Longo's longevity diet is vegan-pescetarian, with tiny amounts of yogurt and parmesan. B12 supplementation may not be needed, mussels, octopus are extremely rich in B12 and sardines and other fish are rich in it. Vit D is needed unless the diet is prevalently pescetarian. choline, that's debated.

18 hours ago, Almond said:

s there any of you who still eats small amounts of any of these (lean meats, non fat yogurt, aged cheese, seafood, liver, organic eggs, bone broth) in the context of a vegs heavy, unprocessed, slightly calorie restricted diet and still is aging well? I know about methionine, I just want your personal aneddotic evidence. 

I presently eat substantial amounts of non fat yogurt and milk, a little aged cheese, a little organic eggs. My diet is naturally calorie restricted because I'm rarely  very hungry and I fill up easily. I eat lots of fruit, nuts and seeds, vegetables, plus legumes and whole grain cereals. I don't know if I'm aging well, I feel good though, don't get sick, my cognition still works and  my bloodwork is good, although lately, blood sugar is increasing.

18 hours ago, Almond said:

How many servings of fruit and vegs do you eat every day? In the long term are their only disadvantages antinutrients and possibly digestive issues or is there some other problem I'm not seeing in exceeding? How big of a problem are those two? Did you have any negative experience with too much vegs? 

A negative aspect of too many veggies in my case is bloating and loose bowels, I had to moderate myself. Servings of fruits+veggies varies, usually from 5 to 15 or more.

Edited June 29, 2020 by mccoy

[Almond]

Thank you mccoy, it seems that the ratios may not be a big problem, at least for your body, since if you were deficient in zinc for example you would probably get sick often and that's not the case. That's a relief because they are very difficult to balance. You have experience so you can avoid tracking, unfortunately I'm still in the learning phase. 

Can I ask why did you choose vegetarianism specifically? 

[mccoy]

7 hours ago, Almond said:

Can I ask why did you choose vegetarianism specifically? 

From experience on myself. I'm almost 60, I've been a vegetarian for 42 years now. In the past I had negative outcomes from vegan diets, then I repeated it recently (1.5 years), with a meticulous study, from books and from this forum, plus diligent design and tracking. It was good, but some limitations of it are the limited variety, the necessity to prepare foods, what to eat when you are out, the little digestibility of legumes, soy products and meat substitutes. I also tended to overeat not to loose weight, which I'm naturally prone to.

I like quick meals, like fruit and yogurt, nuts and so on. I prepare food at night but usually pretty simple, like mixed salad with EVOO and vinegar, steamed vegetables at the microwave oven. Some canned legumes. Bread which my wife cooks with a bread-making machine, mixing hi-quality grains and varying the combinations (like, stone-ground whole grain wheat and whole grain oatmeal, or wheat and barley, wheat and millet and so on....

At the end of it, my system seems to accept very well dairy products and you can eat less volume of them with the same amount of EAA, or more, than vegan food.

My opinion is that the perfect diet does not exist, but sure there is an ideal diet for each individual. The foundations of a healthy diet are the same for almost everyone, probably: many vegetables, nuts, seeds, healthy oils, fruit, whole grain cereals and legumes, with amounts dependent on individuals. Modest amounts of meat from non-mammalian species and fish probably will not hurt as a general rule, if there is no ethical reluctance.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by mccoy

[Almond]

Oh I see, it takes a lot of time indeed and I like to grab things to eat quickly as well. You made me think and I decided not to create a detailed and rigid meal plan and instead to ensure variety and some balance with a little tool that I created just now. I thought you all could find it useful as well. It's a super short Python code that allows you to visualize all the combinatiobs of the items in the lists. You can use it for not diet related things as well. For myself I made an animal food list, a grains and pulses list, a vegetables list, a fruit list and a nuts list, so that each combination is a different full meal. I also added the amounts except for nuts that I regulate depending on what I ate that day. I left my own items in the code but you can substitute your own favourite foods and amounts if you follow the syntax (the """ and the "," basically. Also, spaces counts. Don't add them randomly). The code saves the combinations in a file called "dietcombinations" that you have to search in your computer (it takes a couple of minutes to create the file if you put a lot of items in the lists), and it also shows them in the black screen but depending on your settings it won't show them all there. I tried to run on Cronometer some food combinations as lunch and dinners and if I add my regular breakfast and snacks the result is very satisfactory for a random tool (just a little too folate and too little omega6 sometimes). 

This is the code, you have to download Python to run it but it's very easy. You can also add lists of your own for spices or beverages for example, the syntax is "list6 = ["turmeric", "hibiscus tea"] and then you have to modify the line list = [...list5] to include list6

 

import itertools

from pprint import pprint

list1 = ["125g yogurt", "80g chicken", "100g sardines", "80g turkey", "100g anchovies", "100g salmon", "20g mussels", "80g octopus", "80g squid", 100g mullet", "80g clams", "80g hake"]

list2 = ["80g oats", "80g quinoa", "80g rye bread", "80g bulgur", "80g rice", "170g peas", "90g dry lentils", "170g cooked chickpeas", "200g cooked beans (black, azuki, cannellini, lima, borlotti, kidney)", "200g fava beans"]

list3 = ["125g lettuce", "80g mixed greens", "200g spinach", "200g chicory", "200g beet greens", "300g mushrooms", "250g tomatoes", "250g green beans", "250g sauerkrauts", "300g broccoli", "150g endive", "300g brussel sprouts and 300g mushrooms", "300g cauliflower", "200g asparagus", "250g green beans, 50g onion and 250g tomatoes", "300g aubergine, 200g zucchini and 250g tomatoes", "300g cucumber and 200g radishes"]

list4 = ["60g plum", "150g orange", "150g peach", "125g blueberries", "250g strawberries", "200g pear", "200g apple", "100g kiwifruit", "120g banana"]

list5 = ["walnuts", "almonds", "chia seeds", "hazelnuts", "pine nuts", "pistachio", "cashews", "60g avocado", "flaxseeds", "sunflower seeds", "pumkin seeds", "hemp seeds", "peanuts"]

list = [list1, list2, list3, list4, list5]

combination = [p for p in itertools.product(*list)]

f = open("dietcombinations.text", "w+")

f.write(str(combination))

f.close()

pprint(combination)

 

[mccoy]

👍

[Clinton]

On 6/29/2020 at 3:56 PM, mccoy said:

I never did it, too much work, I'd need to be retired to do that. I even ceased to track my intake daily, although I try and calibrate the regimen occasionally

This comment was wrt the chronometer app.  I have used it a TON.  It is extremely simple and fast.  I am sure in less than 2 minutes you can input what you ate for a day and examine your micronutrient intake.

 

 I pre-prep meals like this:

1- 1/4 cup rolled oats, 1/4 cup nuts (half almonds and walnuts), 1tbsp ground flaxseed, 1/4 cup raspberry and 1/4 cup blueberries... liquid is 1 cup soy milk.  I make batches of these in mason jars and take them with me.

2- beans and greens.  This is my main grab and go meal.  I mix black and kidney beans with spinach and kale.  Evoo and vinegar for dressing with whatever you like for taste- Italian or just salt and pepper. These are easy to put in containers for lunch and supper 

 

you are going to need some supplements I expect like iodine and zinc but you will know after reviewing on the chronometer app.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Clinton

[Ron Put]

3 hours ago, Clinton said:

you are going to need some supplements I expect like iodine and zinc but you will know after reviewing on the chronometer app

I'd be cautious with iodine and have it checked before I start supplementing it, as it can easily screw up thyroid function.

[CJay]

On 7/1/2020 at 12:33 PM, Almond said:

Oh I see, it takes a lot of time indeed and I like to grab things to eat quickly as well. You made me think and I decided not to create a detailed and rigid meal plan and instead to ensure variety and some balance with a little tool that I created just now. I thought you all could find it useful as well. It's a super short Python code that allows you to visualize all the combinatiobs of the items in the lists. You can use it for not diet related things as well. For myself I made an animal food list, a grains and pulses list, a vegetables list, a fruit list and a nuts list, so that each combination is a different full meal. I also added the amounts except for nuts that I regulate depending on what I ate that day. I left my own items in the code but you can substitute your own favourite foods and amounts if you follow the syntax (the """ and the "," basically. Also, spaces counts. Don't add them randomly). The code saves the combinations in a file called "dietcombinations" that you have to search in your computer (it takes a couple of minutes to create the file if you put a lot of items in the lists), and it also shows them in the black screen but depending on your settings it won't show them all there. I tried to run on Cronometer some food combinations as lunch and dinners and if I add my regular breakfast and snacks the result is very satisfactory for a random tool (just a little too folate and too little omega6 sometimes). 

This is the code, you have to download Python to run it but it's very easy. You can also add lists of your own for spices or beverages for example, the syntax is "list6 = ["turmeric", "hibiscus tea"] and then you have to modify the line list = [...list5] to include list6

 

import itertools

from pprint import pprint

list1 = ["125g yogurt", "80g chicken", "100g sardines", "80g turkey", "100g anchovies", "100g salmon", "20g mussels", "80g octopus", "80g squid", 100g mullet", "80g clams", "80g hake"]

list2 = ["80g oats", "80g quinoa", "80g rye bread", "80g bulgur", "80g rice", "170g peas", "90g dry lentils", "170g cooked chickpeas", "200g cooked beans (black, azuki, cannellini, lima, borlotti, kidney)", "200g fava beans"]

list3 = ["125g lettuce", "80g mixed greens", "200g spinach", "200g chicory", "200g beet greens", "300g mushrooms", "250g tomatoes", "250g green beans", "250g sauerkrauts", "300g broccoli", "150g endive", "300g brussel sprouts and 300g mushrooms", "300g cauliflower", "200g asparagus", "250g green beans, 50g onion and 250g tomatoes", "300g aubergine, 200g zucchini and 250g tomatoes", "300g cucumber and 200g radishes"]

list4 = ["60g plum", "150g orange", "150g peach", "125g blueberries", "250g strawberries", "200g pear", "200g apple", "100g kiwifruit", "120g banana"]

list5 = ["walnuts", "almonds", "chia seeds", "hazelnuts", "pine nuts", "pistachio", "cashews", "60g avocado", "flaxseeds", "sunflower seeds", "pumkin seeds", "hemp seeds", "peanuts"]

list = [list1, list2, list3, list4, list5]

combination = [p for p in itertools.product(*list)]

f = open("dietcombinations.text", "w+")

f.write(str(combination))

f.close()

pprint(combination)

haha I designed a similar program for Java that created meals bc I don't care that much about eating so choosing/planning is the last thing I want to think about

 

[CJay]

On 6/28/2020 at 5:25 PM, Almond said:

I wondered, do you track micronutrients that are not  on Chronometer? For example, the iodine, fluoride and biotine databases are incomplete, while other things like chloride, sulphur, silicon, boron, vandadium, molybdenum, k2, strontium and others are not considered. I'm especially interested in those of you who always eat the same planned meals. Did you do the math manually once and for all? Did you account for antinutrients and absorbtion somehow? 

Is there any of you who manages to have decent zn:cu, fe:cu and ca:mg ratios without supplements while still eating lots of vegs? How do you do it? And if you correct the ratios through supplements, do you take enough to achieve the ideal balance even if you go over the upper limit for that nutrient, or do you stay under that limit even if the ratio is not ideal?

I've noticed it changing over time TBH due to aging and lifestyle.  I used to work in entertainment/fashion so I had a very different work schedule from my data driven computer life now.  I have a female body so my hormones change a lot basically until after menopause when they chill out.  I have high quality supplements and I take them sometimes - I just think of it as an additive - but for heavens sake only excellent companies bc that industry is dirrrrrty. 

When I track on cronometer I love the data - I'm always low in things but I'm not that stressed about it.  We honestly know so little about requirements for an individual that as long as I'm making generally intelligent decisions and making sure I eat consistently I can't reasonably shoot for more than that.  I don't track with cronometer all the time bc I'm too obsessed with accuracy if, for example, I make a recipe and the bell pepper weights 50g and then I make it again and this time it weighs 70g I update the recipe....   (In other words - it takes too much time & brainspace).  I guess I'm letting perfection be the enemy of the good.

I don't know what you mean by aging well but I'm probably too young to comment (32).  Plus I have good genetics so idk that CR has anything to do with it.