Trackers - recommendations

[TomBAvoider]

I don't have a tracker that I like, I've tried a couple but gave up. However, that was a while ago, and I have not kept up with the newest trends. So, if you wear a tracker, could you describe it and/or recommend one?

For example Amazon is apparently coming out with a tracker, but it's a non-starter (for me), as it doesn't have a screen, doesn't even tell the time, and requires a monthly subscription (monthly subscriptions are generally a deal-breaker for me), and claims nonsensical garbage features like telling your mood by constantly listening to your voice - FEH! No thank you.

Apple Watch is interesting, but I don't like the tight connection to the iPhone (even though I have an iPhone). 

I gave up on trackers a while ago, because (1) not trusting the accuracy (2) fiddly and not simple in operation (3) uncomfortable. 

Do you have something that you find useful and would recommend?

[Ron Put]

I have been wearing trackers since the first Basis came out.  I've had a few Samsung watches, an Apple Watch, Fitbit Versa and now a Garmin Venu.  I feel naked if I don't have one 🙂

Seriously, I like data and within its limitations, wrist-based trackers have helped me fine-tune some aspects of my life.  As I've mentioned before, the resting heart rate increases a day or sometimes even two before one gets sick.  These trackers take the measurements for RHR generally throughout the night and average it, so it's likely a significantly more accurate reflection than taking it manually once a day.  I have reduced my drinking to mostly one glass of wine when I go out, as two+ not only disrupt my sleep, but also increase my RHR for a day or two, which tells me that my body is not thrilled.

I also like to see my heart rate variations (and improvement over time) while running, as well as keep track of all my hikes, walks, and runs.  It works beautifully with Cronometer, as Cronometer takes the data from the tracker and adjusts the daily calorie goal accordingly.

In my experience, the Garmin Venu provides the best balance for my purposes.  Its heart rate sensor is much more reliable and accurate than Fitbit's or Samsung's, as is the GPS sensor.  The Fitbit would often just drop HR altogether when I push harder and get to about 150bpm or higher.  Apple is reliable. Samsung is closer to Fitbit.

The connected GPS on the Fitbit was a joke. Both Garmin and Apple are reasonably accurate.

Garmin gives me a baseline SpO2 from which I can see variations. I am not sure how accurate it is, as it seems a bit low to me. I have set it to continuously track SpO2 while I sleep. Garmin also counts how many breaths you take per minute.

Garmin's sleep tracking is not as good as Fitbit's at detecting when I go to sleep and when I wake up.  On the other hand, it seems to be more in line with what REM should be.  On sleep, I'd give Fitbit the nod, although Garmin seems to improve continuously -- Fitbit was as bad at sleep detection until about 9 months ago, so I hope Garmin improves the algorithms too.  Garmin just bought FirstBeat and if they roll some of FirstBeat's available data crunching into their existing models, it would be a boon.

Apple is great, with good accuracy and the best UI, but their battery life is not even enough for decent sleep tracking, while Garmin lasts for three or four days with my GPS and SpO2 use.  I just started using a third-party HR Variability app on the Garmin, which seems to provide some interesting info -- I'll reserve judgment on its accuracy until I test it better, this being an optical sensor and all.

Overall, I'd avoid Fitbit, unless you need it for just casual use and don't care for accuracy under load (the Charger 4, which has updated Sensors got bad reviews for accuracy, and so I wouldn't trust the new Sense).

Garmin, or something like Polar, are good choices.  Apple will unveil its new watch soon, this time with sleep (basic), which suggests improved battery life. For hardcore runners or sports types, some of the more specialized, pricier models might be a better fit, as well as some of the smaller niche brands.

These are all my own opinions, based on my experience and needs, of course.  YMMV.
 

[TomBAvoider]

Thanks a bunch Ron, for the fantastic review! I’d consider an Apple Watch, but I want at least a 48 hour battery life, so I’d guess that means “never”, unless there’s a massive breakthrough in battery tech.

[AlanPater]

On 8/29/2020 at 6:09 PM, Ron Put said:

I've had a few Samsung watches, an Apple Watch, Fitbit Versa and now a Garmin Venu.  I feel naked if I don't have one

Not me.  I have no smartphone, not even a watch.  Indoors, there are lots of clocks; outdoors needs no time.

CBC News

Health Canada recalls Fitbit watch due to risk of burns
Business |
1 hour ago

Edited March 2, 2022 by AlanPater

[Ron Put]

On 3/2/2022 at 8:23 PM, AlanPater said:

Not me.  I have no smartphone, not even a watch.  Indoors, there are lots of clocks; outdoors needs no time.

... Health Canada recalls Fitbit watch due to risk of burns ...

Until the Trudeau government mandates smart trackers and bans non-tracker wearing Luddites from public spaces.

Jokes aside, you may have no need for trackers, but I personally feel that the technology is advanced enough to provide valuable information that can help one identify issues with regimen and lifestyle and make adjustments. Without the data, we are left simply guessing.

I have been wearing them for years and they are getting more accurate and more useful. Sleep data, HRV, RHR, heart rate while exercising are important for me to track long-term changes and make adjustments.

I find it puzzling that anyone on this forum would be proud of maintaining ignorance about their own body and function., when data is available for a relatively small investment

Edited March 26, 2022 by Ron Put

[mccoy]

Any updates on trackers and smart watches? The function I would need more and with good accuracy would be heart rate and automatic zone training monitoring. Any reliable niche products (available in Europe)?

Edited June 22, 2023 by mccoy

[IgorF]

I did not tried many of them, I wear fitbit and miband but they are in my case really useful only to create nice gps tracks (when I do not cary oldschool garmin with me) and fitbit integrates with cronometer thus I need to make no manual work to put the spent calories there (and because of this I see wrongly calculated dashboards  %). Other small nice things like camera remote shutter and so on.

Resting heart rate, sleep quality reported by them are inaccurate, comparing to old stationary and far from ideal beautyrest tracker. Heart rate reported by them during walking/running is not just inaccurate but a complete bullshit (with 180 beats on easy runs), I used oldschool device to crosscheck tens of times thus I have no doubts.

Generally I agree with guys here https://thegrowtheq.com/activity-and-other-trackers/

that untill we will have these proprietary productized devices instead of validated things (and it does not look simple thing from engineering perspective) it makes no sense to use them with their "primary" purposes but individual boosts if they exist could be helpful in individual cases, with caution that they can cause longterm damage for people who are very willingless to push themselves to the limits and these limits are misinterpreted based on trackers inaccuracies.

IMHO offcourse

Br,

Igor

[mccoy]

Thanks Igor, that's my main doubt, what I would mainly need is heart rate accuracy during activity and rest and apparently many voices cast doubts on the reliability of most wrist trackers during exercise. Maybe I should look for a different type like chest or arm sensors, unfortunately these are not usually worn outside exercise, so it would appear that there is not yet a reliable tracker which can be worn 24 hours.

Edited June 24, 2023 by mccoy

[mccoy]

I just read more reviews, the benchmark for HR monitors seems to be the Polar H10 sensor mounted on a chest strap (cost 74 Euros in Italy). The more the inconvenience, the greater the reliability apparently. Polar sells pretty good armbands as well, more convenient to wear, less reliable according to the manufacturer itself. I would have preferred something small or tiny like the fitbit to wear all the time, but so far I found no such thing, at least at reasonable prices.

Anyway, since I'd like to start experimenting zone 2 training and since HR is already a proxy for the lactate monitor, I think it should be an accurate proxy.

[mccoy]

This is probably the direct competitor of Polar, not much difference, price a little higher, some specialized functions really useful to hard core runners only, swimming as well, the HRM pro-plus

[IgorF]

 

I am checking how I am doing once in several months, so just returned from short running and here the quick test that shows me the same data I saw many times.

I used Sigma's old chest tool, probably this one:

https://www.amazon.com/monitor-accessories-PC-watches-transmitter-elastic/dp/B000NONV2C

to be a reliable source of information.

Sigma shows me 183-187 when I am finishing fast pushups (current max for me is 70-90, depending on fuel available in the muscles).

In the past I crosschecked Sigma many times with manual heart rate assessment and also with Kardia tool capturing ECG - they are aligned almost ideally but offcourse these checks are for steady state.

 

So, a short run, 16 minutes, ~10.3 km/h.

Sigma: reported diapason 115-141

Miband 6: average 164, max 184

Fitbit luxe: average 179, max 188

My own feeling - I am not out of breath during the run, not even close, I can speed up easily for a short burst, obviously until I will outrun the available "preformed fuel" that acts as a buffer for ongoing new energy generation. Sigma's data shifted to 134-137 on the last minutes and this corresponds very well with what is expected.

 

Interesting that both wrist toys guessed well the vo2max for my parameters but they are seriously biased towards this data as long as I am running. When I am calm they are much closer to the real heart rate. I would say they are overreporting 10% for resting heart rate but for running they are 25-30% inaccurate towards the max. Maybe to create fancy graphs and other things expected to share on social networks, no idea.

My understanding of this is - the method that captures physical world data used in my wrist bands is limited and can not be used for running, they are trying to compensate with algos but it works bad. This does not prevent vendors to make "products" based on the method but they are not a tool to be used for those who need a reliable tool for safety of the training reasons.

I suspect Polar H10 should report the things accurate due to the technology being used, but unlike my Sigma it is a more modern device with smartphone integration, so allows to collect data easier and so on. I thought about buying it but I am not in a real need of it, so I am still thinking. But it is also my "virtual" tool of choice probably.

 

Br,

Igor

Edited June 30, 2023 by IgorF

[5fp4]

Anybody using Whoop?

Thinking about changing to Whoop after using Withings for quite a time. 

 

Best

[mccoy]

I received the polar H10 chest strap today and tested it at rest, since I already exercised before. It is touted as one of the most reliable devices of its kind. It is not very comfortable at the beginning, then you tend to forget about it. Also, it is good for indoor stationary training but much less for outdoor training since you need your smart watch to see real time the heart rate. The interface is good with training zones which are based on percentages of max HR. Max HR is calculated by the simplest formula, which is also the most criticized, but it can be entered manually.

All in all it seems a simple, very good choice for zone 2 indoor training. I've yet to understand if it measures HRV, probably it's possible to export the ECG from the session.

[Ron Put]

On 6/30/2023 at 12:52 PM, mccoy said:

I received the polar H10 chest

I have it, but frankly have not used it for quite a while. I use the Venu 2 Plus nowadays and it generally tracks really well with the H10 results, so I eventually abandoned the chest strap, since it's kind of a pain compared to the watch.

Also, the Venu 2 Plus provides other health information, and its Sleep tracking is definitely improved over past Garmins (it sucked at the very beginning, but then it suddenly improved noticeably).

[Ron Put]

I would also highly recommend the Withings Body Cardio scale.

In my experience, it provides Body Fat, Lean Mass and Bone Density results that are consistent with my DEXA scans (well, body fat is about 1.5% lower than DEXA according to Withings, but it has been consistently lower by by the same number 4 measurements, so now I can estimate the true number).

Its unique feature is that it estimates Pulse Wave Velocity and according to what I've seen, it's reasonably accurate.

(PDF) Withings Body Cardio Versus Gold Standards of Pulse-Wave Velocity and Body Composition (researchgate.net)

[mccoy]

17 hours ago, Ron Put said:

I have it, but frankly have not used it for quite a while. I use the Venu 2 Plus nowadays and it generally tracks really well with the H10 results, so I eventually abandoned the chest strap, since it's kind of a pain compared to the watch.

Also, the Venu 2 Plus provides other health information, and its Sleep tracking is definitely improved over past Garmins (it sucked at the very beginning, but then it suddenly improved noticeably).

Thanks for the info. After having listened to podcasts from various sources, including personal trainers and cardiologists, the Polar H10 seems to be the absolute reference for HR in sports activities and is used as a benchmark in studies to measure the reliability of other wearable devices, in lieu of an ECG.

The watch is surely more comfy and you noticed a good similarity with the Polar H10, but I like almost absolute precision when I'm applying some procedures like determination of HRmax or zone 2 HR. On the other side, the Polar band is not usable during daily activities and sleep, so maybe I'm going to get a watch or a Oura ring.

I personally find a drawback that the watches have so many functions, most of'em I won't use, but I would appreciate a basic and reliable HR, HRV and some estimator of the goodness of sleep.

[corybroo]

20 hours ago, mccoy said:

I would appreciate a basic and reliable HR, HRV and some estimator of the goodness of sleep.

I just received a Fitbit by volunteering to be a subject for the All of Us project.  (Considerations while using Fitbit Data in the All of Us Research Program)

Here's what I've found so far:

It's new, so I need to learn about the Fitbit to maximize its usage.  

My son mentioned one benefit of wearing a tracker of any sort was when his wife was rushed to the hospital a year ago.  At arrival, when the staff saw her smart watch, the first question was, "May we download the data?"  So even if you don't use the charts and data, if something occurs and there is a need to see what was the state of your body leading into the situation, that data would be available for medical professionals to help in diagnosis and treatment.   

[mccoy]

Corybroo, is that the Fitbit Charge model (Cahrge 5 illustrations below)?

The material you linked is interesting, by night it seems to be a very accurate sensor of HR, whereas by day the artifacts influence the measurements, the studies have been done on a Charge2 though, I wonder if it is different on the latest model. Almost every reviewer of Charge 5 says it is not reliable when practicing sports activities.

Also I wonder about the reliability of HVR and sleep monitoring.

[corybroo]

Yes, I received a Charge 5.  This morning I found a youtube video https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&ei=UTF-8&p=youtube+fitbit+5+introduction&type=E210US1274G0#id=4&vid=0de0dc545e878f5cb76ce3d3a1e61f2e&action=click  which talks about some of the trade offs.  Such as CPS vs HR accuracy have a tradeoff depending upon band tightness.  Tighter gives better heart rate monitoring but blocks GPS antenna which is on the underside of the device.

 

[Ron Put]

2 hours ago, corybroo said:

CPS vs HR accuracy have a tradeoff depending upon band tightness.

I've had several Fitbits before I switched to Garmin, the last two were Versas. I liked the UI and the sleep tracking was probably the best at the time. I hear good things about the Charge 5.

The reason I switched was because above about 140bps Fitbit's accuracy sucked and it deviated considerably from chest-strap data. It both lags and has spikes and dropouts that are incorrect. But if one is not using it for higher intensity workouts that get HR above 140, then Fitbit is actually fine. And maybe it has improved over the last couple of years. I also HATE having to pay Fitbit/Google a monthly fee just so that I can se my own data, which they also sell to third parties.

Garmin Venu 2 Plus has been kind of the best combination so far between a smart watch, battery life, data provided and accuracy. It tracks relatively closely with the chest strap at the higher HR ranges and the sleep tracking in now on par with Fitbit, if not a little better, IMO.

[mccoy]

17 hours ago, Ron Put said:

I also HATE having to pay Fitbit/Google a monthly fee just so that I can se my own data, which they also sell to third parties.

I like the Fitbit because I don't really need a smartwatch, just a simple watch with tracking devices, the design is appealing, but I definitely dislike the monthly fee.

On the other end, the charge 5 itself is relatively inexpensive and sometimes producers start out with free apps, adding costs later on. I hope it doesn't happen with Garmin.

 

[mccoy]

I was almost convinced about the fitbit Charge 5, but I came across a Reddit forum where they discuss HRV. apparently, there are many reports of overly low values and someone verified the data with the Polar H10 and the HRV-elite app. The Fitbit data were off the wall.

What happened probably is that the HR tracker at rest is all right but the HRV algorythm is faulty. Since I need thsi parameter, no way I'm goign to spend 115 Euros and 8+ additional Euros each month of subscription.

[mccoy]

See below

Edited July 15, 2023 by mccoy
more complete references

[mccoy]

I appreciated the Garmin website, where an entire section is dedicated to health parameters monitored by Garmin devices. HRV and various elaborations of it is on of them.

 

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/garmin-technology/health-science/

 

[mccoy]

See below

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by mccoy
more complete references