Mike41 Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) that’s right. The latest rat study finds it ain’t the TMAO that was so bad after all. It’s complicated! IAC, This study seems to vindicate seafood, but not animal flesh. the conundrum Is explained in the article to some extent. https://elifesciences.org/articles/57028 https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/interviews/trimethylamine-oxide-cuts-heart-failure-death https://medium.com/@Kahn642/what-joe-rogan-and-chris-kresser-need-to-know-about-fish-and-tmao-53d88ee33e88 Edited September 8, 2020 by Mike41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBAvoider Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 The whole TMAO and TMA and gut bacteria issue is so complicated that I honestly don't have a good handle on it. It's certainly always been observed that fish have very high levels of TMAO which enters the bloodstream very fast upon consumption, yet the consumption of fish has been generally associated with good CV health. There have been many attempts to disentangle the TMAO mess, and while this study is another building block of understanding, I by no means think it resolves much at all. Besides which, I'm wary of studies in rats and particularly rats which are genetically engineered for some effect or another. What I want to know is what to do about choline. Do we supplement? Do we strongly stay away from supplements? Are we super careful about dietary choline sources (f.ex. from eggs vs nuts etc.). We've had many discussions about this on these boards, but I'm still not clear about it all. I chalk it up to one of those confusing areas which one day may or may not gain clarity. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike41 Posted September 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 As it has been said before; most scientists are wrong about most things most of the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike41 Posted September 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.120.14759 now a study Just published claims the opposite! among healthy middle-aged/older adults, higher plasma trimethylamine-N-oxide was associated with greater nitrotyrosine abundance in biopsied endothelial cells, and infusion of the antioxidant ascorbic acid restored flow-mediated dilation to young levels, indicating tonic oxidative stress-related suppression of endothelial function with higher circulating trimethylamine-N-oxide. Using multiple experimental approaches in mice and humans, we demonstrate a clear role of trimethylamine-N-oxide in promoting age-related endothelial dysfunction via oxidative stress, which may have implications for prevention of cardiovascular diseases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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