Keepin' the carbs LOW!

[KHashmi317]

This doctor says: "At the 1st Sign of Dementia: Do This." 

 PSSSTTT ... reduce you intake first, improve nutrition, and then go "High Protein" and "High Fat"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Clinton]

Doctor?!?!?!?! 
whoa Nelly!!!

that’s no medical doctor.... that’s Eric Berg the chiropractor.

Please watch this:

 
Any member on these forums is capable of doing their own research and understanding pubmed docs far better than “Dr” Berg.  I started following him years ago and quickly realized he doesn’t understand basic concepts in biology, medicine... he misquotes/references articles, mixes up numbers and tables ... total joke.

Try to forget every image and word that you were exposed to.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Clinton

[Todd Allen]

2 hours ago, Clinton said:

that’s no medical doctor.... that’s Eric Berg the chiropractor.

Indeed.  But there are medical doctors with similar views on the topic of dementia such as neurologist Dale Bredesen

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/dale-bredesen

who recently published this book, The End of Alzheimer's Program, which suggests a ketogenic diet as part of his protocol for dementia.

 

[Mike41]

13 hours ago, Todd Allen said:

Indeed.  But there are medical doctors with similar views on the topic of dementia such as neurologist Dale Bredesen

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/dale-bredesen

who recently published this book, The End of Alzheimer's Program, which suggests a ketogenic diet as part of his protocol for dementia.

 

True, but I don’t think he recommends this for people in general just to be clear. It is an intervention for a serious condition.

[Todd Allen]

1 hour ago, Mike41 said:

True, but I don’t think he recommends this for people in general just to be clear.

He recommends it both for treatment and prevention for those at risk due to metabolic syndrome.  I think recent CDC figures estimate roughly 75% of American seniors are prediabetic or diabetic.

[Ron Put]

3 hours ago, Todd Allen said:

He recommends it both for treatment and prevention for those at risk due to metabolic syndrome.  I think recent CDC figures estimate roughly 75% of American seniors are prediabetic or diabetic.

Perhaps, but it may have something to do with the likelihood that most of such carbs are from sugar cookies, juices and soft drinks. Replacing Coco Puffs with whole grains, fruits and vegetables is likely a far healthier alternative to cutting carbs out and gorging on pate, triple-cream cheese and KFC.

[Todd Allen]

4 hours ago, Ron Put said:

Perhaps, but it may have something to do with the likelihood that most of such carbs are from sugar cookies, juices and soft drinks. Replacing Coco Puffs with whole grains, fruits and vegetables is likely a far healthier alternative to cutting carbs out and gorging on pate, triple-cream cheese and KFC.

From Dr. Bredesen's  book I linked here are sections on fruit and on grains:

 

Quote

 

FRUITS

Some call fruit “God’s candy.” In their ancestral form, fruits were rich in phytonutrients and healthful fiber. Sadly, many modern fruits bear little resemblance to their predecessors. Fruits that are readily available in our grocery stores today have often been selectively bred to be sweeter, larger, easier to eat, and more durable for transport, resulting in unnatural varieties that are low in fiber and high in sugar, harming metabolic health. Ancestrally, fruits were consumed at the end of summer to fatten for the winter. Some describe our current obesity epidemic as stemming from “the winter that never comes.” That is beautifully exemplified with the ready availability of every fruit imaginable no matter the season.

Carefully selected, a small serving of fruit, especially combined with nuts, can be a perfect dessert safely enjoyed at the end of a meal.²⁶ Choose organic, local, and seasonal fruits with a low glycemic index or net carbs. A perfect example would be a tart wild crab apple combined with a few English walnuts enjoyed in the late summer or early fall. Below see a complete list of all recommended fruits, with accompanying glycemic warnings.

■  FRUITS  ■

Bilberries**

Green mangoes**

Blackberries**

Green papayas**

Black currants*

Green plantains*

Blueberries**

Kiwis* (unripe)

Boysenberries**

Lemons*

Cherries* (tart)

Limes*

Coconuts* ♥

Mulberries**

Crab apples** (wild, in season)

Persimmons***

Cranberries*

Pomegranates***

Grapefruits*

Raspberries**

Green bananas*

Strawberries** ♦

KEY

Glycemic Index: Low* Intermediate** High***

USDA Organic ♦

High in SFA (saturated fatty acids) ♥

Some fruits, like wild berries, may be eaten out of season in order to take advantage of their powerful neuroprotective properties. Wild unsweetened berries, including blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, mulberries, bilberries, black currants, blackberries, boysenberries, cranberries, and pomegranates, should be prioritized because their polyphenolic compounds exert a therapeutic effect in both preventing and remediating cognitive decline. Their dark pigments, called anthocyanins, and other flavonols contribute to their neuroprotective properties.²⁷

Blueberries have been particularly well studied for memory enhancement. In two separate randomized controlled trials, they improved aspects of cognition including verbal memory, working memory, and task switching, which is an important component of executive function.²⁸ Additionally, functional MRI tests demonstrate higher levels of blood-oxygen-dependent signals in the brains of those with mild cognitive impairment after consuming blueberries.²⁹ Tart cherries, which are technically drupes, not berries, have also been shown to improve cardiometabolic health, oxidative stress, and inflammation. A small, randomized controlled trial demonstrated that those who supplemented with cherries showed improvements in verbal fluency and short- and long-term memory.³⁰Persimmons, an excellent source of prebiotic fiber, have demonstrated neuroprotective properties but are fairly high on the glycemic index and thus should be enjoyed cautiously.³¹

Wild unsweetened fresh berries and cherries are preferable, but frozen are fine. (Surprisingly, even dried fruit retains high levels of nutrients, just in condensed packages.) Be careful to source unsweetened versions. Always eat the whole fruit as opposed to the juice, to maintain the fiber and reduce the glycemic index. Some berries, such as cranberries and black currants, are very tart and unpalatable for some. Explore different ways of using small amounts of approved sweeteners to render them more palatable.

Other fruits that can be liberally enjoyed out of season are lemons and limes. They are excellent sources of vitamin C and are naturally low in glucose. These bright citrus powerhouses of flavor add a refreshing flavor punch to salads, animal proteins, desserts, and more. Even zesting their tough outer peel is an easy and nutritious way to put an extra zing of flavor into many foods. (Note: Acidic foods soften your tooth enamel. It is best to wait for a half hour after eating any acidic food before brushing your teeth.)

We caution against eating most ripe tropical fruits, as they tend to be very high on the glycemic index. Some exceptions are unsweetened coconut (technically a drupe) and all of the resistant starches previously mentioned, including unripened green plantains, bananas, mangoes, and papayas. Be careful not to cook green bananas and plantains, as that degrades the resistant starch. As mentioned earlier, kiwi has natural digestive enzymes and has also been found to improve lipid profiles and reduce lipid oxidation.³²

BEETS If fruits are “God’s candy,” then beets are his jewels. Beets, a deep ruby red, sugary but non-starchy root vegetable, provide big benefits to both the heart and brain through different mechanisms. Beets are well known for being a rich source of nitrates, which are converted into nitric oxide in the vascular endothelium. Nitric oxide acts a vasodilator, which helps to decrease blood pressure and improve blood flow, thereby supporting cerebral and cardiac vascular health, and is particularly appropriate for vascular cognitive decline. Another way that beets may benefit the brain is by combining them for their uridine content with omega-3 fatty acids and choline to support synaptic growth.³³ A recent laboratory study demonstrated that betanin, a compound in beets that is responsible for their distinctive red color, may help slow the accumulation of beta-amyloid in the brain.³⁴ Beets also have potent antioxidant and anti-inflammatory detoxification properties.³⁵ Beet roots and their leafy greens are also rich in carotenoids, which have been shown to aid in eye health.³⁶

Raw beets, which are delicious in salads, have the lowest glycemic impact. Cooked beets have a distinctive earthy taste, not unlike potatoes. They can be steamed or roasted, maintaining their firmness. It is important not to overcook them, as this will diminish their nutrients and increase their sugar content. Serving them with EVOO or butter can also help to blunt the glycemic effect. You may keep the skin on, particularly with young beets (which are tender and less bitter), if you’re roasting them or making kvass, an Eastern European lacto-fermented beet juice. Beet skin is rich with microbes, which confer healthy microbiotica for the kvass. It is best to avoid pickling beets with vinegar, as that destroys the healthy gut bacteria. As with all higher glycemic foods with healthful properties, balance is key. Eat small amounts as a part of a meal and check your postprandial blood glucose at one and two hours to see the effect on you.

ACTION PLAN

 

• Eat heirloom fruit seasonally. Depending upon what part of the world you live in, there may be many other options available to you locally. Always balance nutritive value against glycemic concerns.

• Enjoy small portions of wild berries year-round.

• Unripened tropical fruit (green plantains, bananas, mangoes, papayas, and kiwi) may be eaten in small amounts as resistant starches and for their natural digestive enzymes.

• Lemons and limes are great sources of vitamin C and can be enjoyed liberally.

CAUTIONS

ELEVATED BLOOD GLUCOSE This is discussed above. Be sure to conduct one- and two-hour postprandial blood glucose checks to see the effect a given fruit has for you. See chapter 18, this page, to find target goals. Combining fruits with nuts can reduce the glycemic effects, as can eating fruit at the end of a meal.

OXALATES Beets and several of the recommended fruits, including raspberries, cranberries, blueberries, papayas, and kiwis, are high in oxalates. Oxalates are plant-based compounds that may promote inflammation or kidney stones when eaten in large quantities by those who are genetically susceptible or who have impaired gut health.

...

Against the Grain

The KetoFLEX 12/3 approach includes the elimination of all grains (with a few exceptions that we’ll discuss in chapter 9). Because of the known inflammatory properties of grains, we recommend that everyone focused on optimizing their cognitive health should avoid them.⁶

Let’s start with gluten (which can be further broken down into glutenin and gliadin), which is the main glue-like protein in many grains, including wheat, rye, and barley. Over the centuries, the ongoing hybridization of wheat has caused the gluten to become increasingly damaging to human health while higher amounts of gluten have been added in an effort to improve texture and the ability to rise.⁷ While gluten often bears much of the blame, gliadin, a smaller protein within gluten, is an even bigger culprit. There are now more than 200 gliadin varieties, with glia-α9 being the most potent trigger for the intestinal destruction that occurs with celiac disease. This gliadin protein used to be quite rare but is now present in most wheat varieties.⁸ Additionally, modern wheat has been engineered for increased amounts of a naturally occurring lectin (a lectin is a protein that binds carbohydrates and unfortunately can cause inflammation) called wheat germ agglutinin (WGA) to help fend off insects and create a more hardy and sustainable crop.⁹ As with WGA, our current wheat crop has been bred to have higher levels of inflammatory phytates, also known to help fend off insects and increase fiber content. Phytates are often referred to as “anti-nutrients” because they impair the body’s ability to absorb minerals.¹⁰

Agribusiness has successfully created a hardier, more profitable wheat crop, with little regard for the impact of this on human health. Because this hybridization occurred before the advent of modern genetically modified organisms (GMOs), much of the wheat crop has been able to avoid the negative label despite very similar tampering.¹¹ These combined changes have led to a dramatic increase in celiac disease and in non-celiac sensitivity.¹² The pathological effects of gluten are well established in those suffering from celiac disease, so most of us who do not suffer from celiac disease assume that we can eat gluten with impunity (and what tastes better than warm bread?). However, unfortunately, non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) affects many of us and can cause similar widespread inflammation.¹³ Symptoms include GI issues (bloating, abdominal pain, diarrhea, etc.), fatigue, bone and joint pain, arthritis, osteoporosis, liver and biliary tract disorders, anemia, anxiety, depression, peripheral neuropathy, migraine, seizures,infertility, canker sores, and skin rash.¹⁴

In susceptible people (which may turn out to be everyone!), gliadin can inflame the gut and make it permeable, allowing toxins, food fragments, and fragments of bacteria and other microbes all into the bloodstream.¹⁵ Eating gluten increases the expression of zonulin, a protein that modulates the permeability of tight junctions (which work like Velcro between the cells in your gut) in the GI tract, with increased leakiness leading to a host of chronic diseases.¹⁶ Those with the ApoE4 gene have increased blood-brain barrier permeability, which may render them more susceptible to the exposure of gluten.¹⁷

The health implications from gluten go beyond wheat to many other grains and even dairy. Some of these foods are contaminated by gluten, contain gliadin proteins, demonstrate cross-reactivity, or closely mimic gliadin proteins. For those who exhibit any symptoms of NCGS, the foods to avoid include rice, corn, oats, millet, amaranth, bulgur, buckwheat, quinoa, and dairy.¹⁸ Be aware that many non-wheat grains have also been genetically modified, changing the way that pesticides are used. Some grains have been engineered to withstand more herbicides (so nearby weeds can be more liberally sprayed with toxic glyphosate), while others produce their own pesticides, conferring a hardier crop with harmful health implications that we’re just beginning to understand fully.¹⁹ Even worse, glyphosate is also used as a desiccant to dry crops for easier harvesting. Think about the implications of this. A chemical designated as a probable human carcinogen by the World Health Organization, which has been indicted multiple times in the U.S. court system with awards in excess of $2 billion, is being sprayed not once, but twice, doubling our exposure. Furthermore, non-wheat grains often contain toxins, including arsenic. They are also well known to be high in inflammatory lectins, another antinutrient.

Grains can also have a strong effect on blood glucose. Traditionally, farmers have fed grains to their livestock to fatten them up before going to market. The same thing happens to humans, as suggested by the increase in prevalence of obesity and diabetes since the government food pyramid guideline encouraged the heavy consumption of grains. These guidelines just happened to coincide with excess grain production and stores due to government subsidies given to farmers.²⁰

You might consider a three-week empirical trial by completely eliminating grains from your diet. Be aware of possible withdrawal side effects that may occur during this period due to the opioid-like characteristics of gluten. They can involve a worsening of GI symptoms and an increase in pain. Symptoms typically last about a week, followed by a dramatic improvement with continued abstinence from gluten, all grains, and dairy.²¹ Many patients report marked symptom improvement in that short period of time and choose not to reintroduce inflammatory grains.

If you’d like further corroboration, you can consider blood testing through Cyrex Laboratories. First, we recommend that you use Array 2, which tests for intestinal permeability. If that’s positive, you may want to test for gluten sensitivity with Array 3X. If you’re experiencing symptoms of cognitive decline, you may want to use the Alzheimer’s LINX test, which is designed specifically for the contributors to cognitive decline, such as beta-amyloid and other cross-reactive substances, or Array 20, which tests for blood-brain barrier permeability.²² Any licensed healthcare practitioner can set up an account to order a Cyrex Laboratories test.

Given the KetoFLEX 12/3 whole food approach, “gluten-free” processed foods are not a good idea. Why? Because they are full of chemicals and often little better than the foods they were meant to replace. Instead of gluten-free processed food, experiment with grain-free versions of your favorites using ingredients introduced in the Brain Food Pyramid, chapter 6.

Eliminating grains may be a stumbling block for many people because the science appears to be mixed. On one hand, we have epidemiological evidence that a Mediterranean eating pattern, which includes whole grains, is healthful.²³ On the other hand, you’ll recall that the Mediterranean Diet has never been trialed against a non-grain version of itself, so the effect of grains on this diet is unknown. The various diets from Blue Zones, places where people are particularly long-lived and healthy, also include some whole grains, further contributing to the notion that they have a positive effect.²⁴ It’s worth noting, however, that the whole grains used in these regions are very different from what passes for “whole grains” in the United States. They are typically non-engineered (non-GMO) heritage grains that are free from glyphosate (the toxicant in Roundup). The varieties of wheat are much lower in gluten, lower on the glycemic index, and prepared in ways that render them safer to eat.²⁵ The Blue Zone Okinawan diet uses much less rice than many other Asian countries, substituting sweet potatoes instead. Additionally, the Okinawan tradition of hara hachi bu means that you stop eating when you are 80 percent full, leading to an overall lower caloric intake, which further protects against insulin resistance.²⁶

 

 

[mccoy]

On 1/17/2021 at 1:51 AM, Todd Allen said:

Because of the known inflammatory properties of grains,

The known inflammatory properties... Known by whom? By the paleo folks? One thing is to advise against grain consumption to decrease blood sugar concentration, another thing is to make up stories about unexisting detrimental properties of a class of foods.

[Mike41]

40 minutes ago, mccoy said:

The known inflammatory properties... Known by whom? By the paleo folks? One thing is to advise against grain consumption to decrease blood sugar concentration, another thing is to make up stories about unexisting detrimental properties of a class of foods.

Our own Michael Rae is on record supporting some of the positions  that Dr. Breseden expresses above in Todd’s post. That has always made me a bit suspicious of some whole grains. The Irritating effects are certainly there in the case of celiac. Could it be that many of us have some vulnerabilities 

[mccoy]

AFAIK, coeliac disease is a morbidity. Even then, not all cereals contain gluten. Healthy people with a balanced immune system are not in the least affected by a moderate amount of cereals, barring cases of imperfect glucose homeostasis.

Quote

Coeliac disease

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

 

Jump to navigationJump to search

Coeliac disease
Other names	Celiac sprue, nontropical sprue, endemic sprue, gluten enteropathy
Biopsy of small bowel showing coeliac disease manifested by blunting of villi, crypt hypertrophy, and lymphocyte infiltration of crypts
Pronunciation	/ˈsiːliæk/ SEE-lee-ak
Specialty	Gastroenterology, internal medicine
Symptoms	None or non-specific, abdominal distention, diarrhoea, constipation, malabsorption, weight loss, dermatitis herpetiformis[1][2]
Complications	Iron-deficiency anemia, osteoporosis, infertility, cancers, neurological problems, other autoimmune diseases[3][4][5][6][7]
Usual onset	Any age[1][8]
Duration	Lifelong[6]
Causes	Reaction to gluten[9]
Risk factors	Genetic predisposition, type 1 diabetes, autoimmune thyroid disease, Down and Turner syndromes,
Diagnostic method	Family history, blood antibody tests, intestinal biopsies, genetic testing, response to gluten withdrawal[10][11]
Differential diagnosis	Inflammatory bowel disease, intestinal parasites, irritable bowel syndrome, cystic fibrosis[12]
Treatment	Gluten-free diet[13]
Frequency	~1 in 135[14]

Coeliac disease or celiac disease is a long-term autoimmune disorder that primarily affects the small intestine.^[10] Classic symptoms include gastrointestinal problems such as chronic diarrhoea, abdominal distention, malabsorption, loss of appetite, and among children failure to grow normally.^[1] This often begins between six months and two years of age.^[1] Non-classic symptoms are more common, especially in people older than two years.^[8][15][16] There may be mild or absent gastrointestinal symptoms, a wide number of symptoms involving any part of the body or no obvious symptoms.^[1] Coeliac disease was first described in childhood;^[6][8] however, it may develop at any age.^[1][8] It is associated with other autoimmune diseases, such as Type 1 diabetes mellitus and Hashimoto's thyroiditis, among others.^[6]

Coeliac disease is caused by a reaction to gluten, a group of various proteins found in wheat and in other grains such as barley and rye.^[9][17][18] Moderate quantities of oats, free of contamination with other gluten-containing grains, are usually tolerated.^[17][19] The occurrence of problems may depend on the variety of oat.^[17][20] It occurs in people who are genetically predisposed.^[10] Upon exposure to gluten, an abnormal immune response may lead to the production of several different autoantibodies that can affect a number of different organs.^[4][21] In the small bowel, this causes an inflammatory reaction and may produce shortening of the villi lining the small intestine (villous atrophy).^[10][11] This affects the absorption of nutrients, frequently leading to anaemia.^[10][18]

Diagnosis is typically made by a combination of blood antibody tests and intestinal biopsies, helped by specific genetic testing.^[10] Making the diagnosis is not always straightforward.^[22] Frequently, the autoantibodies in the blood are negative,^[23][24] and many people have only minor intestinal changes with normal villi.^[25] People may have severe symptoms and they may be investigated for years before a diagnosis is achieved.^[26][27] Increasingly, the diagnosis is being made in people without symptoms, as a result of screening.^[28] Evidence regarding the effects of screening, however, is not sufficient to determine its usefulness.^[29] While the disease is caused by a permanent intolerance to gluten proteins,^[10] it is distinct from wheat allergy, which is much more rare.^[30]

The only known effective treatment is a strict lifelong gluten-free diet, which leads to recovery of the intestinal mucosa, improves symptoms and reduces the risk of developing complications in most people.^[13] If untreated, it may result in cancers such as intestinal lymphoma and a slightly increased risk of early death.^[3] Rates vary between different regions of the world, from as few as 1 in 300 to as many as 1 in 40, with an average of between 1 in 100 and 1 in 170 people.^[14] It is estimated that 80% of cases remain undiagnosed, usually because of minimal or absent gastrointestinal complaints and lack of knowledge of symptoms and diagnostic criteria.^[5][26][31] Coeliac disease is slightly more common in women than in men.^[32]

 

[Mike41]

14 minutes ago, mccoy said:

AFAIK, coeliac disease is a morbidity. Even then, not all cereals contain gluten. Healthy people with a balanced immune system are not in the least affected by a moderate amount of cereals, barring cases of imperfect glucose homeostasis.

 

Michael Rae was not so concerned about gluten but WGA and lectins as mentioned above. I do recall that he believed extensive cooking of whole grains adequately could reduce these concerns. AFAIK the concerns here are primarily of wheat, barley and rye. Oats and quinoa appear to be more benign.
 

see this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705319/#__sec13title

 

7. Conclusion

In the present review, we describe how the daily consumption of wheat products and other related cereal grains could contribute to the manifestation of chronic inflammation and autoimmune diseases. Both in vitro and in vivo studies demonstrate that gliadin and WGA can both increase intestinal permeability and activate the immune system. The effects of gliadin on intestinal permeability and the immune system have also been confirmed in humans. Other cereal grains containing related prolamins and lectins have not been so extensively studied and, therefore, more research investigating their impact on intestinal permeability and inflammation is required. It would be interesting to further elucidate the role of other prolamins on zonulin release and intestinal permeability.

In CD and gluten-sensitive individuals, adverse reactions to the intake of wheat, rye and barley are clinically apparent; however, it is important to gain better insights on the effects of the consumption of these cereal grains in other groups of patients and in healthy individuals. It would be of high interest to investigate the effects of the withdrawal of cereal grain products from the diet on inflammatory markers and intestinal permeability in healthy subjects and patients suffering from inflammation-related diseases and measure the same parameters in a rechallenge trial. Ideally, in such an intervention study, the diet must be completely controlled and combined with the appropriate substitution of foods in the cereal grain-deprived diet so that small dietary variations and alterations in energy intake can be avoided and cannot potentially influence inflammatory markers.

Until now, human epidemiological and intervention studies investigating the health effects of whole grain intake were confounded by other dietary and lifestyle factors and, therefore, well-designed intervention studies investigating the effects of cereal grains and their individual components on intestinal permeability and inflammation are warranted

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Mike41

[mccoy]

I'm skeptic about the hypothesis of attributing detrimental effects of gluten to healthy and not-gluten-intolerant people. Also, the paleo/lowcarb/keto narrative hates all cereals, not just those containing gluten. I'm aware of potential auto-immune response, but that derives from some individual variants and an unbalanced immune system, is not applicable to healthy individuals.

Bottom line, we cannot ban one food based on its effects on unhealthy or intolerant individuals. We cannot ban fruit based on its effects on prediabetic individuals.  Unless we show that there is anyway a longevity advantage. In my reasoned opinion, the advantage lies in the dose. Fruit has some undisputable advantages, which can be obsured by the disadvantages when the amounts ingested are above a certain individual threshold, also dependent on age and other factors.

[Clinton]

I hope I'm allowed to post the following without getting kicked out 😉

Is there WGA in rolled oats??

If so I only have a couple years left to live ...

[KHashmi317]

About macro ratios in a CR diet ... well, as folks following the list back in early 2000 may recall from the informal survey, many of us switched from the ratios in Walford books to those in various Barry Sears books (40/30/30, etc). Not sure how much effect that had on actual PANEL biometrics. But indiv. qualitative  accounts reported better moods and more energy. 

I recently was forced to temporarily shift from 24% Teklad chow pellets to Teklad  18%. (b/c local lab-animal distributor was out-of-stock of 24% because manuf. (Teklad) had issues).  And, yeah, I noticed qualitative un-improvements (less energy, etc). Have returned to 24% pellets (which is only about 50% of my total calorie intake).

Edited January 20, 2021 by KHashmi317

[mccoy]

13 hours ago, KHashmi317 said:

24% Teklad chow pellets

khashmi, I found the ingredients which look pretty complete and supplemented with vitamins and mierals, I wonder about the taste though. How much chow do you eat usually per day? As far as I recall, you eat lots of shredded, raw  vegetables as well. You probably deserve the gold medal for nutritional stoicism!

 

 

Quote

 

8604 Teklad Rodent Diet

Teklad 24% Protein Rodent Diet

8604 is a fixed formula, non-autoclavable diet manufactured with high quality ingredients and designed to support gestation, lactation, and growth of rodents.

Ingredients (in descending order of inclusion):
Dehulled soybean meal, wheat middlings, flaked corn, ground corn, fish meal, cane molasses, ground wheat, dried whey, soybean oil, brewers dried yeast, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, iodized salt, choline chloride, kaolin, magnesium oxide, ferrous sulfate, vitamin E acetate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), manganous oxide, copper sulfate, zinc oxide, niacin, thiamin mononitrate, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, vitamin B12 supplement, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, cobalt carbonate.

 

 

[KHashmi317]

Use both Rodent and Primate "high-protein" chow to achieve a balanced spectrum. This is based on 21 years of Nutribase and DWIDP software number-crunching.. For primate chow (as mentioned prev).: Lab Diet 5045. Also, for extra protein, have also experimented with wet cat food (Fancy Feast Liver pate).

Yes ... SIGNIFICANT use -- most bulk and mass of my meal --of raw, shredded veg, (broc, red cbg, kale, spinach,  asparagus) . Some unsweetened almond milk (2 c/day), and unsweetened cocoa pwdr. Two cups of coffee: whole bean which I grind and French press, with either soy creamer or CoffeeMate pwdr. And two cups of Diet Coke. FWIW: a generic multi-vitamin, some extra Vit-D gel caps. some Ca and Zn supps. 

About animal food and taste.... Animals have palates, too. One of the most scrumptious being frugivore mega bats. 

About questionable human palates ... alcohol ... BITTER, disguising and expensive. 

[Clinton]

3 hours ago, KHashmi317 said:

have also experimented with wet cat food (Fancy Feast Liver pate).

Does you cat ever get p1ssed off when it sees you gulping down the Liver pate?

[mccoy]

I must confess I remained fascinated by the frugivore bats (flying foxes), but I couldn't find any lab feed online, I imagined there were some dried-fruit based pellets....

[Clinton]

On the Enterprise we ate mostly food that was prepared using pellets ... we added food coloring to shake it up a little ...

 

 

[mccoy]

Well, that's it, frugivorous bats feed. I can spot cantaloupe, watermelon and kiwifruit cubes. Banana smoothie in the glass.

[KHashmi317]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:35 AM, mccoy said:

I must confess I remained fascinated by the frugivore bats (flying foxes), ...

I would guess that because they get their fruit off wild tress -- as opposed to mass-production farms -- they would find our supermarket fruit quite unpalatable. If you've ever had mangos, bananas, or fruits picked from their native tropical/jungle trees, you'll know what I mean.

[Ron Put]

 

[Clinton]

Good post, Ron.

Once a person prioritizes fibre and micronutrients the diet is going to be fruits, veggies, nuts,  whole grains and legumes... plenty of wfpb carbs.

It’s sustainable and can support  an awesome looking physique as well 👍

Edited February 9, 2021 by Clinton