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KHashmi317

Vaccine risks, injury and related topics

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It's a heated issue ... but because¬†of the LONG-TERM effects of¬†vaccine use or non-use,¬† their impact on mortality,¬†health and LONGEVITY, the topic is worthy of a dedicated, topical thread, in a "life-extension" community ūüėČ

In future posts --- time and participation permitted!! -- I hope to explore issues such as:

  • acute vaccines (such as developed for new or novel diseases)
  • MRNA "vaccines"¬† (such as some rapidly developed for COVID)
  • schedule vaccines (childhood; as needed for entry into schools)
  • travel vaccines
  • vaccine injury (legal; fine print and FDA-mandated warning labels)
  • "anti-vaxxing" (orgs, books, documentaries)
  • vaccines vs. therapies/treatment
  • etc.

Let's kick things off with a hot topic ...  Mass Vaccination in a Pandemic - Benefits versus Risks: Interview with Geert Vanden Bossche

Quote

Geert Vanden Bossche PhD, is an internationally recognised vaccine developer having worked as the head of the Vaccine Development Office at the German Centre for Infection Research. 

Coordinated Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisation's Ebola Vaccine Program and contributed to the implementation of an integrated vaccine work plan in collaboration with Global Health Partners (WHO, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, CDC, UNICEF), regulators (FDA) and vaccine manufacturers to enable timely deployment or stockpiling of Ebola vaccine candidates.

Highlighting the principle of using a prophylactic vaccine in the midst of a pandemic. Likely to create more more viral variants in the process.

Sharing his perspective on mass vaccination in COVID-19.

 

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The same video as above, but with edited-in comments from multi-platform-banned anti-vaxxer Del Bigtree ... if Dr. Vanden Bossche's predictions are accurate, scary times ahead, folks ...

 

 

Edited by KHashmi317

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On 3/21/2021 at 10:11 AM, KHashmi317 said:

Let's kick things off with a hot topic ...  Mass Vaccination in a Pandemic - Benefits versus Risks: Interview with Geert Vanden Bossche

Hmm, a while ago there was a similar argument going around about the measles vaccines, no?

I listened to almost the whole original video and right off the bat, the coronaviruses are generally much more stable than RNA viruses like influenza, so dramatic rapid mutations would be unlikely.

Second, asymptomatic transmissions are not common, based on the more reliable studies. I believe that there was at least one study on Pfizer's vaccine which concluded that it further cuts potential transmissions, up to the 95% or so. So, Bossche's argument would seem to run into problems with both the mutation rate and the extremely low post-vaccination transmissibility of coronaviruses.

In addition, we've had the discussion about antibodies here before, in connection with the absurdly low infection/immunity claims spread through the media to justify the lockdowns, and the fact that killer cells like T-cells are part of a larger and at times more important defense system. And those are not as narrowly "trained" and provide broader resistance to like-pathogens.

Having said that, I think Bossche presents an interesting theory that should be explored, not ignored or dismissed just because the anti-vaxers may adopt it. And of course, this is just my opinion, based on random, non-systematic reading through related literature over time.

Edited by Ron Put

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Just in case the stuff hits the fan : Stock up on the ivermectin vet paste I noted in the "Pandemic" mega-thread. Avail. from Amazon or farm / tractor supply store. About $10 for this ... a 1/2" dab on finger (avg toothpaste dose size) will do.

61o5jmzpubL._AC_SL1200_.jpg

 

 

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Quote

 

In future posts --- time and participation permitted!! -- I hope to explore issues such as:

[...]
vaccine injury (legal; fine print and FDA-mandated warning labels)

[...]

 

From the FDA.gov site:

MMR (made by Merck)
https://www.fda.gov/media/75191/download

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine
https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download
Note:  "Additional adverse reactions, some of which may be serious, may become apparent with more widespread use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine."

Package Inserts and Manufacturers for some US Licensed Vaccines and Immunoglobulins
https://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm
above: ALL the manuf.-provided PDF datasheets on one site -- developed by:
https://www.hopkinsvaccine.org/
Institute for Vaccine Safety ---"The Institute for Vaccine Safety was established in 1997 in the Department of International Health at the Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health - now the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
Our mission is to provide an independent assessment of vaccines and vaccine safety to help guide decision makers and educate physicians, the public and the media about key issues surrounding the safety of vaccines. The institute’s goal is to work toward preventing disease using the safest vaccines possible."

Immunization and children at risk for autism
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2796520/

==============

The US govt has a DEDICATED offices for:

National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) 
https://vaers.hhs.gov/

===============

The state of vaccine safety science: systematic reviews of the evidence

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32278359/

NOTE the refs at above page:
Similar articles
Vaccines to Children: Protective Effect and Adverse Events: A Systematic Review [Internet].
Swedish Council on Health Technology Assessment.
Stockholm: Swedish Council on Health Technology Assessment (SBU); 2009 Feb. SBU Yellow Report No. 191.
PMID: 28876765 Free Books & Documents. Review.
Safety of Vaccines Used for Routine Immunization in the United States.
Maglione MA, Gidengil C, Das L, Raaen L, Smith A, Chari R, Newberry S, Hempel S, Shanman R, Perry T, Goetz MB.
Evid Rep Technol Assess (Full Rep). 2014 Jul;(215):1-740. doi: 10.23970/AHRQEPCERTA215.
PMID: 30257278 Review.
Parental perspectives of vaccine safety and experience of adverse events following immunisation.
Parrella A, Gold M, Marshall H, Braunack-Mayer A, Baghurst P.
Vaccine. 2013 Apr 12;31(16):2067-74. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2013.02.011. Epub 2013 Feb 17.
PMID: 23422146
Adverse events associated with childhood vaccines other than pertussis and rubella. Summary of a report from the Institute of Medicine.
Stratton KR, Howe CJ, Johnston RB Jr.
JAMA. 1994 May 25;271(20):1602-5.
PMID: 8182813
Causal relationship between immunological responses and adverse reactions following vaccination.
Nakayama T.
Vaccine. 2019 Jan 7;37(2):366-371. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2018.11.045. Epub 2018 Nov 30.
PMID: 30503656 Review.

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Going way back to my early days of CR, and specifically my interaction on the Mailing List, I recall a few accounts of folks reporting frequent childhood illnesses (as well as an abundance of headache and allergy  claims) ... some of which seem to have abated in adulthood ... and ESPECIALLY after commencing CR. Is it possible some of these accounts are due to vaccine injury? I.e, from "schedule vaccines" (childhood; as needed for entry into schools) or even "extra" or "booster" or yearly flu vaccines?

The controversial (and banned on many platforms) documentaries, Vaxxed and Vaxxed II (2016; 2019), presented some childhood accounts from interviews of  100s of parents who had kids that both: i.e. were and weren't vaccinated. The UNVAXXED, based on parents' account, fared better in both disease resistance (immunity) and intelligence. 

The full-length docs can be found on alternative video platforms like Rumble. Here is Vaxxed II (2019):

https://rumble.com/embed/v9m5er/?pub=4

 

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6 hours ago, Ron Put said:

Hmm, a whÔĽŅile ago there was a similar argument going around about the measles vaccines, no?

A significant difference is these new vaccines only target a single spike protein while previous vaccines typically used the entire virus in a weakened or inactivated state.  Considering we already are seeing numerous strains pop up and there is already talk of 'booster shots" for the new strains Geert's concerns seem worthy of consideration.

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11 minutes ago, Todd Allen said:

A significant difference is these new vaccines only target a single spike protein while previous vaccines typically used the entire virus in a weakened or inactivated state.  Considering we already are seeing numerous strains pop up and there is already talk of 'booster shots" for the new strains Geert's concerns seem worthy of consideration.

How timely ... I was just going to post on this as you replied!

 

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The last 1/3rd of the South Africa NHLS /  Dr. Penny Moore  video is esp. important: the orig. strain of Sars Cov-2 is put under significant escape pressure due to SYNTHETIC factors such as convl. plasma and (ESPECIALLY) vaccines. Note the graphs of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines "pushing" the virus into mutant strains. As predicted by Geert Vanden Bossche.

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6 hours ago, Todd Allen said:

these new vaccines only target a¬†single spike proteÔĽŅin while previous vaccines typically used the entire virus in a weakened or inactivated statÔĽŅeÔĽŅ.

FWIW, there are some vaccines  being developed using the "entire virus" approach.
 

Quote

Unlike the Sputnik V vaccine, which uses a modified harmless cold virus that tricks the body into producing antigens to help the immune system prepare for a coronavirus infection, the [Russian] CoviVac vaccine is a ‚Äúwhole-virion‚ÄĚ vaccine.¬† This means it is made of a coronavirus that has been inactivated, or stripped of its ability to replicate.

‚ÄúThe vaccine we have developed reflects the whole history of Russian, as well as global, vaccine¬†science,‚ÄĚ the Chumakov Centre‚Äôs director, Aidar Ishmukhametov, said on Saturday.¬† [ The Chumakov Centre, founded in 1955 in St Petersburg by Mikhail Chumakov, is known for its work with U.S. scientist Albert Sabin at the height of the Cold War, which led to the production of the widely-used polio vaccine. ]

The advantage, according to virologist Alexander Chepurnov...is that CoviVac includes all elements of the virus, creating a broader immune response that is likely to protect against any variants.  However, testing Russia’s COVID-19 shots against SARS-CoV-2 variants that have emerged in the UK, South Africa and elsewhere is in its early stages.

[...]¬† Globally, one other major vaccine candidate ‚Äď India‚Äôs Covaxin by Bharat Biotech ‚Äď uses the ‚Äúwhole-virion‚ÄĚ approach.¬† India‚Äôs drug regulator has touted the shot‚Äôs ability to act against the whole body of a virus instead of just its ‚Äúspike-protein‚ÄĚ tip, potentially making it more effective in case of mutations.

The CoviVac shot is given in two doses, 14 days apart. It is transported and stored at normal fridge temperatures, of 2 to 8 degrees Celsius (35.6 to 46.4 Fahrenheit), Deputy Prime Minister Tatiana Golikova said in a government briefing in January.  [...]  Mid-stage trials to test volunteers’ immune responses were ongoing, he said at the time. Only a placebo-controlled, large-scale trial could ascertain effectiveness, he added. This is due to begin now that the go-ahead has been granted.

https://science.thewire.in/health/russia-approves-its-third-covid-19-vaccine-covivac/


"

Edited by Sibiriak

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6 hours ago, Sibiriak said:
12 hours ago, Todd Allen said:

 

FWIW, there arÔĽŅe some vaccines¬† being developed using the "entire virus" approach.

It will be interesting to see outcome statistics over time for people receiving whole-virion vaccines versus the mRNA vaccines.  Unfortunately the statistics generated throughout this pandemic so far have obvious shortcomings and it doesn't look like corporate and governmental interests are going to align with producing the best statistics, discussion and policies regarding vaccine options.

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14 hours ago, KHashmi317 said:

From the FDA.gov site:

MMR (made by Merck)
https://www.fda.gov/media/75191/download

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine
https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download
Note:  "Additional adverse reactions, some of which may be serious, may become apparent with more widespread use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine."

Package Inserts and Manufacturers for some US Licensed Vaccines and Immunoglobulins
https://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm
above: ALL the manuf.-provided PDF datasheets on one site -- developed by:
https://www.hopkinsvaccine.org/
Institute for Vaccine Safety ---"The Institute for Vaccine Safety was established in 1997 in the Department of International Health at the Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health - now the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
Our mission is to provide an independent assessment of vaccines and vaccine safety to help guide decision makers and educate physicians, the public and the media about key issues surrounding the safety of vaccines. The institute’s goal is to work toward preventing disease using the safest vaccines possible."

Immunization and children at risk for autism
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2796520/

==============

The US govt has a DEDICATED offices for:

National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) 
https://vaers.hhs.gov/

===============

The state of vaccine safety science: systematic reviews of the evidence

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32278359/

NOTE the refs at above page:
Similar articles
Vaccines to Children: Protective Effect and Adverse Events: A Systematic Review [Internet].
Swedish Council on Health Technology Assessment.
Stockholm: Swedish Council on Health Technology Assessment (SBU); 2009 Feb. SBU Yellow Report No. 191.
PMID: 28876765 Free Books & Documents. Review.
Safety of Vaccines Used for Routine Immunization in the United States.
Maglione MA, Gidengil C, Das L, Raaen L, Smith A, Chari R, Newberry S, Hempel S, Shanman R, Perry T, Goetz MB.
Evid Rep Technol Assess (Full Rep). 2014 Jul;(215):1-740. doi: 10.23970/AHRQEPCERTA215.
PMID: 30257278 Review.
Parental perspectives of vaccine safety and experience of adverse events following immunisation.
Parrella A, Gold M, Marshall H, Braunack-Mayer A, Baghurst P.
Vaccine. 2013 Apr 12;31(16):2067-74. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2013.02.011. Epub 2013 Feb 17.
PMID: 23422146
Adverse events associated with childhood vaccines other than pertussis and rubella. Summary of a report from the Institute of Medicine.
Stratton KR, Howe CJ, Johnston RB Jr.
JAMA. 1994 May 25;271(20):1602-5.
PMID: 8182813ÔĽŅ
Causal relationship between immunological responses and adverse reactions following vaccination.
Nakayama T.
Vaccine. 2019 Jan 7;37(2):366-371. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2018.11.045. Epub 2018 Nov 30.
PMID: 30503656 Review.

Hi Khurram!

The statements from the vaccine manufacturers are what's known as "covering your ass", usually abbreviated to "CYA".

The Frenchman, de Toqueville, on visiting the newborn nation USA noted that Americans are a very litigious people -- meaning that everyone is suing everyone else.

I think that you can give the drug companies a 100% pass on vaccine safety.

And, of course, every company (and business, small or large) wants to make a profit.

No scandal there.

  --  Saul

 

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14 hours ago, KHashmi317 said:

Going way back to my early days of CR, and specifically my interaction on the Mailing List, I recall a few accounts of folks reporting frequent childhood illnesses (as well as an abundance of headache and allergy  claims) ... some of which seem to have abated in adulthood ... and ESPECIALLY after commencing CR. Is it possible some of these accounts are due to vaccine injury? I.e, from "schedule vaccines" (childhood; as needed for entry into schools) or even "extra" or "booster" or yearly flu vaccines?

The controversial (and banned on many platforms) documentaries, Vaxxed and Vaxxed II (2016; 2019), presented some childhood accounts from interviews of  100s of parents who had kids that both: i.e. were and weren't vaccinated. The UNVAXXED, based on parents' account, fared better in both disease resistance (immunity) and intelligence. 

The full-length docs can be found on alternative video platforms like Rumble. Here is Vaxxed II (2019):

https://rumble.com/embed/v9m5er/?pub=4

 

Sounds like crap to me.

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Hi ALL!

I was vacciated at Rochester General Hospital with the Pfizer covid vaccine, shots 1 1nd 2.  The most knowledgeable Dr. on infectious diseases here in Rochester, NY, Dr. Walsh of RGH supervised and followed my results -- (I was actually in the Pfizer vaccine trieal, phase 3 -- received placebo -- and then was given the vaccine.  The good drug mfgrs. always offer their vaccines to those on placebo once receiving emergency use authorization.)  Dr. Walsh expressed concern about the new mutant versions of the Covid virus -- I pointed out the the virus is a coronovirus -- that is an RNA virus, and these do tend to mutate quickly (e.g. flu virus), but that coronaviruses, although RNA viruses, are known to be slow in evolving.

Dr. Walsh said, "Yes and No".  He explained:  Every coronavirus that infects humans in the past have been around, infecting humans, for many thousands of years, probably milenia.

But this is not true of Covid19:  It jumped, very recenetly, from an animal (probably a bat) to a human in China, and then went on to infect the world.  It is new to man.  Dr. Walsh explains, it is therefore likely to mutate much faster than traditional coronaviruses for some years, until it reaches a stable form.  Until then, some of the variants might be more deadly.  But, the MRNA vaccines are all easily modified -- it's much simpler to create them than the traditional virus delivered method, or partially killed virus vaccine.  These require breeding them in animal tissue -- usually chicken egg.  The new MRNA vaccines --both Pfizer and Moderna -- are synthesized from scratch.

Also, it's extremely likely that even the deadliest mutant would be unlikely to make any fully vaccinated individual more than mildly ill, if that.

  --  Saul

 

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21 hours ago, KHashmi317 said:

Just in case the stuff hits the fan : Stock up on the ivermectin vet paste I noted in the "Pandemic" mega-thread. Avail. from Amazon or farm / tractor supply store. About $10 for this ... a 1/2" dab on finger (avg toothpaste dose size) will do.

61o5jmzpubL._AC_SL1200_.jpg

 

 

Just a followup on Ivermectin ....

Quote

At a March 18, 2021 press conference, a group of medical and scientific experts convened by the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC) called for action to put an end to the COVID-19 pandemic by immediately adopting policies that allow for the use of ivermectin in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19. Scientists and physicians from the U.S., U.K., E.U., South America, and Israel gathered to discuss the latest data on how ivermectin has reduced positive COVID-19 cases in major cities across the world, ivermectin's role in the early treatment of COVID-19, and why ivermectin needs to be adopted as safe and effective prevention and treatment of COVID-19. Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance https://covid19criticalcare.com

 

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15 hours ago, Todd Allen said:

A significant difference is these new vaccines only target a single spike protein while previous vaccines typically used the entire virus in a weakened or inactivated state.  Considering we already are seeing numerous strains pop up and there is already talk of 'booster shots" for the new strains Geert's concerns seem worthy of consideration.

Actually, similar arguments have been put forth against virus-vector vaccines such as those from J&J, AstraZeneca, and the Russian Sputnik. The argument is that that immunity generates toward the adenovirus vehicle and it reduces the effectiveness of the vaccine (search for discussion of, and evidence of this with the Ebola vaccines). But with millions of vaccines administered over the course of the last few months, there is no evidence that there is a significant issue, with either type of vaccines. And again, there is no evidence that Bossche's fears that started this thread are warranted, for the reason that there is no significant asymptomatic transmission and effectively no transmission by those vaccinated, plus the other points I mentioned above.
 

44 minutes ago, Saul said:

Dr. Walsh said, "Yes and No".  He explained:  Every coronavirus that infects humans in the past have been around, infecting humans, for many thousands of years, probably milenia.

But this is not true of Covid19:  It jumped, very recenetly, from an animal (probably a bat) to a human in China, and then went on to infect the world.  It is new to man.  Dr. Walsh explains, it is therefore likely to mutate much faster than traditional coronaviruses for some years, until it reaches a stable form. 

This bit is not true. First, there are a number of new coronaviruses that spread among human populations over the last few decades, at least five since 2000, and at least two of them "jumping" from bats: search for groups NL63 and HKU1, for instance, and for MERS and nCOV. The part about "mutate faster" until it reaches a "stable form" also simply makes no sense.

Essentially, the media is overblowing the significance of the new variants and how they relate to the currently available vaccines. The reality is that all of the current vaccines are effective at the primary goal of the Covid-19 vaccines in general, which is to prevent most severe illness and death. So far it appears that even the least effective Covid-19 vaccine still practically eliminates death (in people who are not likely to die in the next month or two regardless) and dramatically cuts the likelihood of hospitalization, regardless of the variant.

Compare the effectiveness of the current Covid-19 vaccines to the effectiveness of the annual flu shot, which ranges from the 40s percent to 70 or so percent, and you'll see that things look pretty good for the Covid-19 vaccines. Minor tweaks are likely to keep effectiveness very high.

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4 hours ago, Ron Put said:

there are a number of new coronaviruses that spread among human populations over the last few decades, at least five since 2000, and at least two of them "jumping" from bats: search for groups NL63 and HKU1, for instance, and for MERS and nCOV.

According to Dr. Walsh, MERS and Ebola are ancient viruses, infecting humans in areas of the world far from the developed countries for millenia.  what's new is that they were recently brought closer to Western countries.  I don't have any special knowledge on this subject -- but Dr. Walsh definitely is an expert on this subject --- he is one of the top MD/Phd 's in Rochester specialized in Infectious Diseases.

4 hours ago, Ron Put said:

The part about "mutate faster" until it reaches a "stable form" also simply makes no sense.ÔĽŅ

No, it does make sense.  When a new animal virus enters a human, it is in an unfamiliar environment.  It is not (yet) ideally adapted to this environment.  So it is in the interest of the virus to mutate (most mutations, as usual being negative for the virus -- but a few being beneficial) resulting in some mutations that produce descendants better adopted to the new environment.  Then additional mutation becomes less useful.  (Of course, the virus doesn't "figure this out"; evolution works, overall, to survival of the more fit descendants.).

Also,

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I agree with Ron:  Mutate faster does not make sense unless something is making the genome less stable and the environment is tolerant of experiments.  As Saul noted, selection is faster in a new environment in the sense that the original form will be more quickly displaced by some new variant that has even the slightest advantage over the original.

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21 hours ago, Saul said:

According to Dr. Walsh, MERS and Ebola are ancient viruses, infecting humans in areas of the world far from the developed countries for millenia.  what's new is that they were recently brought closer to Western countries.  I don't have any special knowledge on this subject -- but Dr. Walsh definitely is an expert on this subject --- he is one of the top MD/Phd 's in Rochester specialized in Infectious Diseases.

I am certain that Dr. Walsh is a good specialist, but unless he knows something the rest of the community doesn't he is mistaken on MERS and nCOV, among others:

Origin of MERS Virus Found in Bats

MERS first appeared in Saudi Arabia in September 2012, and has since infected 94 people and caused 46 deaths, according to the World Health Organization.

The researchers noted that bats are known to be reservoirs of other viruses that can infect people, including rabies and SARS, the severe respiratory illness that sickened more than 8,000 and killed nearly 800 in Southeast Asia in 2002 and 2003.

And here is a snippet on SARS:

SARS is the name of the respiratory illness that’s caused by SARS-CoV. The acronym SARS stands for severe acute respiratory syndrome.

The global SARS outbreak lasted from late 2002 to mid-2003. During this time, over 8,000 peopleTrusted Source were sickened and 774 people died.

The origin of SARS-CoV is thought to be bats. It’s believed that the virus passed from bats to an intermediate animal host, the civet cat, before jumping to humans.

As to mutations, the vast majority of mutations in viruses are detrimental to the pathogen. Unlike RNA viruses like influenza which are segmented and can be rearranged during duplication (and thus prone to rapid mutation), coronaviruses are not segmented and have a primitive error-checking mechanism, which is why they mutate slower.  I can see some logic in the argument that because of the large number of infected hosts around the world (comparable to a robust influenza wave), Covid-19 has more opportunities to produce a useful (to it) mutation. Of course, generally, such "useful" mutations are less deadly, because if they were, the opportunity to spread and replicate would rapidly decline as the hosts die off.

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Hi Ron!

Dr. Walsh believes (I think correctly) that earlier human exposure to these viruses, that may or may not have been documented, almost certainly occurred.  The relative stability of these, and most other, known human coronavirus pathogens (except for COVID-19) strongly suggests that they've been around for very long time, probably in understudied areas -- such as some ancient isolated region of rural Africa.  Pathogens that jumped from animals to humans are likely to have done the same multiple times -- e.g., the two coronaviruses you mentioned, possibly from the same community of bats.

The good news:  North American bats don't appear to carry coronaviruses, unlike their Asian counterparts.  The bad news: they are likely to be capable of carrying them, like their Asian relatives.  So, (bizarrely, but understandably) some US scientists are trying to protect American bats from being infected with Covid19 from humans (it would be awful if Covid19 found a happy home in American bats.  For reasons unknown, bats [at least Asian ones] appear to be fully capable of carrying coronaviruses without any ill effects -- to them). 

  --  Saul

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YOU WILL ULTIMATELY NEED A 3rd SHOT -- and probably boosters ad infinitum -- OF ANY COVID VACCINE ... of course y'all know where the "pandemic" campaign was headed ... right ??!

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/third-pfizer-dose-covid-19-vaccine-maker-studying-booster-shots-n1258775

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