Most powerful supplement for blood pressure

[mccoy]

Guys, I'm posting about AGE (Aged Garlic Extract).

I was checking my BP, and systolic 120-125 was a value I didn't like much. I ordered AGE but didn't take it.

I rechecked my BP,  15 days ago and today. 114-115. Good.

My conclusion is that AGE is an extremely powerful supplement, the mere fact of it sitting on a shelf in my house has decreased my BP by 10 mm Hg,  LOL.

[mccoy]

Seriously, AGE has been shown to decrease BP up to 15 mm Hg in good responders (after some time), plus it seems to inhibit the progression of CAC score and so on. Cannot find now the main article I consulted, I'm going to paste something relevant. My BP still is under 120/80, but some further reduction wouldn't hurt I suppose.

[tea]

How much do you take? A lot of the kyolic studies I've seen use pretty large dosages of  1200 to 2400mg, which would be 4 to 8 capsules.

And just out of curiosity, have you ever tried amla for blood pressure?

[mccoy]

Tea, AFAIK the typical AGE dosage should be in the range of 600 to 1200 mg per day (distributed). But I'm not taking it yet, I'm waiting to finish my bottle of garlic oil capsules first, the two together may be too much perhaps.

No, never tried amla, which I'm curious about though.

[Ron Put]

On 7/22/2021 at 2:13 PM, mccoy said:

I was checking my BP, and systolic 120-125 was a value I didn't like much. I ordered AGE but didn't take it.

I rechecked my BP,  15 days ago and today. 114-115. Good.

My conclusion is that AGE is an extremely powerful supplement, the mere fact of it sitting on a shelf in my house has decreased my BP by 10 mm Hg, 

mccoy, are you jumping to such a conclusion based on only a couple of measurements? Blood pressure varies and unless you are taking regular measurements over a considerable period, it's likely a fluke. I quite like the taste of black garlic and can eat a jar at one sitting (it's relatively high in calories, too), but have never noticed a marked difference in my BP, which I check relatively regularly. 

I take amla fairly regularly and also don't think it has made a significant difference to my blood pressure, or to my cholesterol. 

[mccoy]

On 8/1/2021 at 4:15 AM, Ron Put said:

mccoy, are you jumping to such a conclusion based on only a couple of measurements? Blood pressure varies and unless you are taking regular measurements over a considerable period, it's likely a fluke

I agree, although I don't go to such an extent to measure BP 3 times per day like P. Attia prescribes to his clients. I'm taking regular readings, presently my BP is in the range of 115-120 mm. A little less would make me happier and AGE extract could maybe work out in that direction.

There is also another possibility, totally feasible, which is to wear a Holter BPM or ABPM and have one's BP measured for 24 hours at intervals of 15 minutes (day) or 30 minutes (night).

You just suggested the idea to me. I'm going to rent the ABPM  once a week and see the results. That's the way to go for a circle of health-obsessed people like we are. Actually the best way would be to wear it twice a week, alternate weeks, for a few months. Or maybe there are a few more efficient strategies.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by mccoy

[mccoy]

On 8/1/2021 at 4:15 AM, Ron Put said:

I quite like the taste of black garlic and can eat a jar at one sitting (it's relatively high in calories, too), but have never noticed a marked difference in my BP, which I check relatively regularly. 

Congratulations Ron, I'm unfortunately one of those guys who doesn't tolerate raw garlic. Did you measure before and after a period of garlic-indulegnce? Or maybe you are a non responder to garlic...

[Ron Put]

Hah, today I ate almost 100g of black garlic (it's aged garlic). I can eat the stuff like candy, which is why I don't buy it very often :)

It used to be pricier, but nowadays you can buy it cheaply in Chinese stores or on Amazon.

Right before I ate it, I measured my BP and it was 100/63. This was in the afternoon. But yesterday I measured it in the late morning and the first triple measurement set was 117/77, then the one right after was 114/73. So it varies as expected, with or without amla or black garlic. Or maybe I just don't monitor regularly enough to notice a pattern.

 

[Ron Put]

This continuous BP bracelet is approved in Europe:

https://aktiia.com/uk/

[mccoy]

3 hours ago, Ron Put said:

This continuous BP bracelet is approved in Europe:

https://aktiia.com/uk/

Seems pretty promising, the optical device meets the ISO requirements and the site content appears to be scrupolously scientific. The price is not very high. I'm tempted...

Edited August 12, 2021 by mccoy

[mccoy]

Blood Press Monit. 2021 Aug; 26(4): 305–311.

Published online 2021 Mar 4. doi: 10.1097/MBP.0000000000000531

PMCID: PMC8248249

PMID: 33675592

Blood pressure from the optical Aktiia Bracelet: a 1-month validation study using an extended ISO81060-2 protocol adapted for a cuffless wrist device

[mccoy]

I just ordered the aktiia BP, but it will take at least one month for the delivery

[Ron Put]

On 9/4/2021 at 2:20 PM, mccoy said:

I just ordered the aktiia BP, but it will take at least one month for the delivery

I am kind of envious... :D Let us know how it goes.

On the glucose front, my doctor thinks that in my case wearing a continuous glucose meter is pointless, and insurance won't pay for it. I might still do it, but I have also been looking at lancing devices and meters.

The Genteel Plus Painless Lancing Device appears to be practically painless, has anyone here tried it?

As to the meters themselves, here is a video review of the accuracy of a few:
 

 

[mccoy]

I've started using the Aktiia blood pressure monitor. This is a screenshot of today's measurements. The device sends measurements every hour (but they appear every 2 hours on the app). It does not send the values when the parameters are outside of certain thresholds (the conditions are not declared). My values are lower than expected, night values sometimes higher, sometimes slightly lower than daily values. The calibration method is based on a traditional although hi-tech cuff. I'm going to calibrate again next week instead of next month. The strange thing is that I'm presently living in a stressful situation, with irregular sleeping times, no time for aerobic exercise, things that are supposed to increase cortisol and blood pressure. Diet is probably better now, with plenty of vegetables, little carbs, moderate protein.

Maybe it's the powerful effect of AGE even if it's still sealed in its container, I walk in front of it several times a day...

If the data are confirmed I'm giving the AGE container to someone else.

 

 

[Saintor]

Impressive, I hope that my next smartwatch will have something like that and accurate.

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-expands-vital-blood-pressure-and-electrocardiogram-tracking-to-galaxy-watch3-and-galaxy-watch-active2-in-31-more-countries

[mccoy]

I hope that Samsung and other manufacturers will be able to provide ISO-compliant methods of BP monitoring soon.

In the meanwhile I found in a Nature article some details on the acceptance rate of measurements, which depends also on the posture. It is coherent with my brief observations, by night analysis of signals is more favourable

 

[mccoy]

The difference of the Aktiia measurements with double auscultation seems to e +- 15 mm, but the errors are random, so there should be a statistical compensation in lieu of systematic errors

[Todd Allen]

7 hours ago, mccoy said:

I've started using the Aktiia blood pressure monitor.

I've seen listings for smart watches which measure blood pressure.  I've got a cheap one that does pulse but it does a poor job compared to my chest strap heart monitor.  I don't know if more expensive ones do it better or if any measure BP accurately.  The chest strap heart rate monitor is interesting because it gives a fuller signal capturing the timing of each beat and not just an averaged pulse.  I would be curious to see a full blood pressure signal to see the impact of heart rate variability on pressure but I don't know of any consumer devices that do it.

[mccoy]

Todd, my single anecdotal info about BP watches is that it was totally inaccurate, a colleague of mine wore it, he has genetical predisposition for high BP and runs marathons (takes beta-blockers).

One time at work he felt uneasy and I went along with him to the nurse's office, seeing his pressure measured by arm cuff and auscultation. The data were pretty far away, the watch indicating a couple of dozens or more mm Hg. I had my own BP measured and it was my usual at the time, so the auscultation was validated.

bottom line, BP measuring devices seem to be tricky and it's hard to make an accurate one, hopefully, recent research will achieve better results. Aktiia satisfies the reference regulations on BP measuring devices and the measurements appear to be reasonably accurate, although there are a few problems in this system, like the low acceptance rate of measurements in the day, in my case.

Edited December 28, 2021 by mccoy

[Gordo]

That Aktiia device looks pretty nice, great to see there is reputable science around it and published validation of the method it employs.  Still not sure its really worth the price especially when you have to use a cuff to calibrate it anyway,  why not just get a good cuff and take a few readings a month and not have to have some annoying bracelet on you all the time that can't get wet 😉

[Ron Put]

mccoy, I am jealous... 🙂

Aktiia is really the only game in town I am aware of, which is both relatively accurate, it does minimally intrusive continuous monitoring.

The Samsung watch is neither very accurate nor does it do continuous monitoring. Without the benefit of automatic continuous monitoring, why not just use a (more accurate) cuff?

 

[mccoy]

23 hours ago, Gordo said:

That Aktiia device looks pretty nice, great to see there is reputable science around it and published validation of the method it employs.  Still not sure its really worth the price especially when you have to use a cuff to calibrate it anyway,  why not just get a good cuff and take a few readings a month and not have to have some annoying bracelet on you all the time that can't get wet

Gordo, the fact is that you cannot take reliable measurements by night, since a cuff will wake you up and alter the BP values. As a matter of fact, it's going to happen in the day as well, the constriction tends to send a neurological alarm which will cause a rise in BP, so cuffs tend to overestimate this parameter.

What is happening now is that the daily acceptance rate in my measurements is very low, so I'm only wearing it in the night, where acceptance is almost 100%. They also say that baseline nightly BP is most significant. 

I'll have to write to the manufacturer and ask details about measurements, if I can trigger one, when it happens exactly so I can stay still, how to improve acceptance.

Also, measurements are displayed only every 2 hours, so an acceptance rate of 50% in the day is only 3 measurements.

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by mccoy

[mccoy]

15 hours ago, Ron Put said:

mccoy, I am jealous... 🙂

Aktiia is really the only game in town I am aware of, which is both relatively accurate, it does minimally intrusive continuous monitoring.

The Samsung watch is neither very accurate nor does it do continuous monitoring. Without the benefit of automatic continuous monitoring, why not just use a (more accurate) cuff?

 

Ron, the good thing of the bracelet is that it comes with a state of the art cuff, so I'm thinking about calibrating often, once or twice a week. The monitoring is not continuos but takes place every two hours and, as written previously, in the day acceptance (validation of measurement by the algorithm) tends to be low. That's an issue to work out.

[Ron Put]

7 hours ago, mccoy said:

Ron, the good thing of the bracelet is that it comes with a state of the art cuff, so I'm thinking about calibrating often, once or twice a week. The monitoring is not continuos but takes place every two hours and, as written previously, in the day acceptance (validation of measurement by the algorithm) tends to be low. That's an issue to work out.

I believe that this is about as continuous as it gets for multi-week/month+ measurements, at the current level of technology.

Some interested in the subject might be interested in this broad overview:
 

 

[mccoy]

Even night-only measurmentes are interesting anyway. Tonight I got aspleep at 11PM and woke up at 6:30 AM. My sleep is often interrupted by my autistic son, whom I took back home after 3 years of out of home placement. This is representative of a stressful situation, often I'll have to get up in the night and stay awakle a few hours. Often I'll have to tackle his meltdowns, which requires a physical struggle, against a 230 pounds, furious boy. How the homeostatic BP mechanism is reacting to such an almost warlike situation? Apparently not too bad, so far. I had 4 accepted measurements, spanning 6 hours. The first one at midnight was a 113/76, gradually decreasing toward 104/71 and  103/78. Tonight there were no prolonged awakenings, only two interruptions, maybe giving some time to the system to relax. 

Edited December 31, 2021 by mccoy