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Gordo

Just curious, anyone have a plan, or preps for global pandemic?

Covid-19 Vaccine Survey  

19 members have voted

  1. 1. Your Vaccine Status is:

    • Fully vaccinated
      14
    • Partially vaccinated
      0
    • Not Vaccinated
      5
  2. 2. If not (fully) vaccinated, your reason(s) for your decision (check all that apply):

    • Not Applicable - I'm vaccinated
      14
    • The rapid vaccine development process makes me distrust them
      3
    • I'm worried about vaccine side effects
      3
    • I don't think I'm at much risk of getting a covid infection
      3
    • I don't believe a covid infection is a serious risk for someone like me
      4
    • I'm waiting until the vaccines receive final approval
      0
    • Fear of needles
      0
    • A medical condition prevents me from getting vaccines
      0
    • Bad reaction to the first dose of the covid vaccine
      0
    • I already had COVID-19 and don't think I need the vaccine for protection
      2
    • Vaccine not available where I live
      0
  3. 3. Are you OK with having your CR forum name included on a list of members who have/haven't chosen to be vaccinated?

    • Yes
      17
    • No
      2


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On 9/15/2021 at 6:55 PM, Ron Put said:

Here is an informative and thoughtful interview with Martin Kulldorff on the topic of Covid:

Here is Dr. Peter McCullough quite alarmed about the way these vaccines are being used.  When people speak with certainty it usually puts me off, but I am concerned he might be mostly right.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/95lJP00jEZhu/

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There appear to be some limitations to post-infection immunity.

Antibodies from original strain COVID-19 infection don't bind to variants

People infected … early in the pandemic produced a consistent antibody response, making two main groups of antibodies to bind to the spike protein on the virus's outer surface. However, those antibodies don't bind well to newer variants

There are also questions about the efficacy of the vaccine for newer strains that are currently evolving.

The finding has implications for the ability of new variants to reinfect people who contracted earlier versions of the virus, as well as for the continuing efficacy of vaccines and the design of possible vaccine boosters

Some antibodies may continue to provide some immune response.

Even though this antibody response is very common with the original strain, it doesn't really interact with variants …  Some antibodies should still be effective—the body makes antibodies to many parts of the virus, not only the spike protein—but the particular groups of antibodies that we saw in this study will not be as effective.

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1 hour ago, corybroo said:

the spike protein

The spike object on the novel coronavirus is not a protein,  It's a structure, containing many proteins.

  --  Saul

 

 

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I''m still not sure what to think about boosters, but J&J is in the news today as they just came out with more info about their particular booster data:

J&J: Booster Shot Increases Protection Against Coronavirus

A booster shot of Johnson & Johnson's coronavirus vaccine generates a strong immune response, the company announced on Tuesday.  

The company said that clinical trial data from the U.S. shows that a booster shot given two months after the first dose increases protection against moderate to severe coronavirus to 94%. While an extra dose after two months generates a four-fold increase in antibodies, a booster shot given at six months provides a 12-fold increase in antibodies, the company said in a press release.

J&J said it submitted the data, which has not been published in a peer-reviewed journal, to the Food and Drug Administration.

 

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Llama nanobodies may be an effective cure -- and even vaccine -- against covid 19.   Although not nearly enough studies have been made yet for human testing, my intuition is that this may prove to be superior to current vaccines and current treatment options for covid victims.  These nanobodies can be taken in a nasal spray (as a vaccine or a treatment).  And they can potentially be produced by genetically engineered bacteria.

https://www.biospace.com/article/u-k-research-team-sees-success-in-llama-nanobody-animal-studies-against-covid-19

Edited by Saul

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The takeaway :  if you haven't already, get vaccinated.

I can imagine someone extremely healthy, such as Khurram, contracting a very mild case of Covid-19, but losing a fraction of their mental ability.

I suspect that the hippocampus is the region of brain where our consciousness resides (just my intuition -- could be totally wrong).  And the hippocampus is one of the regions that this preliminary study pinpoints as apparently being effected by Covid-19.

Khurram, get vaccinated!

  --  Saul

 

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4 hours ago, Saul said:

The takeaway :  if you haven't already, get vaccinated.

I can imagine someone extremely healthy, such as Khurram, contracting a very mild case of Covid-19, but losing a fraction of their mental ability.

I suspect that the hippocampus is the region of brain where our consciousness resides (just my intuition -- could be totally wrong).  And the hippocampus is one of the regions that this preliminary study pinpoints as apparently being effected by Covid-19.

Khurram, get vaccinated!

  --  Saul

That’s kinda wacky !

Makes as much sense as cutting your finger might contribute to Alzheimer’s.

4 hours ago, Saul said:

 

 

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On 8/21/2021 at 12:34 PM, alexthegra8 said:

There are an array of studies that indicate CRP levels are predictive of severe complications from COVID-19; eating pizza and ice cream and other junk food surely would raise CRP levels. I think a very misunderstood thing about COVID (and even the seasonal flu) is that even though it is not likely to kill you, it can implicate your well being in the future through complications -- many of which are understudied because they are very new.

Yeah, but I have a giant smile on my face by eating ice cream and pizza !

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3 hours ago, BrianA said:

As Florida punishes schools, study finds masks cut school COVID outbreaks 3.5X

 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/as-florida-punishes-schools-study-finds-masks-cut-school-covid-outbreaks-3-5x/

CDC is not a scientific organization any more. It’s political.

I highly doubt the conclusion that masks cut outbreaks 3.5x.

What about a control group ? Are kids wearing masks 24/7.

Requiring kids to wear masks at school is horrible. Kids aren’t at risk, and masks don’t do anything.

Wake up !

 

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Hi Brian!

Sure -- it's probably best for the UNVACCINATED -- which unfortunately still includes kids -- to wear masks.  Hopefully, vaccines will be approved soon, for teens, and then children; until then, of course masks, social distancing, etc., is unfortunately necessary -- particularly bad for children, who may be psychologically damaged by social distancing.  (My grandkids fall into that category.)

As to the political aspect of your post:  I think that it's important to ignore political biases in scientific matters (specially one as important as this one).

As far as those of us (and others) who have had their two jabs of the Pfizer vaccine, the second injection over 6 months ago (I fit into that category), IMO we should get our Pfizer booster as soon as it is available.

  --  Saul

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I don't understand so far the extremely lackadaisical attitude organizations of all types seem to be taking towards the concept of air filtration. Why aren't schools, businesses, government buildings, etc retrofitting UV air sterilization and improved filtering into their ventilation?

 

Here's a recent study showing on how much incredible improvement in air safety can be achieved via relatively simple and straightforward means.

 

" Airborne SARS-CoV-2 was detected in the ward on all five days before activation of air/UV
filtration, but on none of the five days when the air/UV filter was operational; SARS-CoV-2 was
again detected on four out of five days when the filter was off. Airborne SARS-CoV-2 was
infrequently detected in the ICU. Filtration significantly reduced the burden of other microbial
bioaerosols in both the ward (48 pathogens detected before filtration, two after, p=0.05) and the ICU
(45 pathogens detected before filtration, five after p=0.05). "

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.16.21263684v1.full.pdf

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On 9/17/2021 at 1:33 PM, Mike41 said:

And below is a MUCH DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE!

I just listened to the whole 2+ hours of it and must say it's a pretty partisan presentation of "the science" aimed at aligning it with the prevailing narrative and advocating for vaccine mandates and masks. One can easily pick apart many of the inconsistencies and the straw arguments, from the claim that even if Ivermectin is shown to speed up the reduction of viral load, it should not be used, but later extolling the virtue of vaccine mandates, because vaccines seem to speed up the reduction of the viral load. Or that clear PCR tests are irrelevant in the case of Ivermectin because they are just measuring "dead" viral bits, but we based our counting of Covid deaths based on just such PCR tests, but with higher cycle values. Patrick even repeated the false story about the epidemic of the Trumper country bumkins overdosing on horse Ivermectin (subsequently denied by the hospital).

Seheult is the darling of NPR, regaling listeners with scary stories about the unvaccinated and non-masked stupids, which is why he gets air time, and Patrick is trying to do the same. So they will toe the line, if they want the fame. Personally, I have stopped paying attention to either, since I see them as supplement pushers serving their supplement business ventures.


The bottom line is, vaccinating the elderly those with comorbidities, including the obese, is a good idea. But forcing vaccinations, especially with vaccines based on technology without a long enough test run is an assault on civil rights by the Left. Notice that Biden announced it just in time to deflect the news cycle from Afghanistan, and the media was quick to oblige.

 

On 9/17/2021 at 4:26 PM, Saul said:

I just got my flu shot -- the fluzone quadrivalent, recommended for people over 65 (same flu vaccine that I got last year).

Good on you, Saul! Everyone should. But even though I think so, I am not for mandating it.

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17 hours ago, BrianA said:

Airborne SARS-CoV-2 was detected in the ward on all five days before activation of air/UV
filtration, but on none of the five days when the air/UV filter was operational; SARS-CoV-2 was
again detected on four out of five days when the filter was off. Airborne SARS-CoV-2 was
infrequently detected in the ICU. Filtration significantly reduced the burden of other microbial
bioaerosols in both the ward (48 pathogens detected before filtration, two after, p=0.05) and the ICU
(45 pathogens detected before filtration, five after p=0.05). "

 

Sure; you're right.

For example, at the University of Rochester, where I teach mathematics IN PERSON, most, if not al, of the classrooms are equipped with such air/filtration devices.

I agree that this should be done at all universities, and hopefully all high schools, middle schools and elementary schools.

Unfortunately, this costs $$.  And not every educational institution can afford this.

And just as no federal, state or local government can be mandate vaccination, they also cannot mandate air filtration devices.

We live in a federal democracy, not in Communist China.

  --  Saul

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I’ve read a number of references to a 1905 Supreme Court ruling about mandatory vaccination.  To learn more about it, I found The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates

Here are some highlights from an article about that decision.

 

So when the Cambridge board of health decided that all adults must be vaccinated for smallpox, Jacobson [50 yr old pastor of the Swedish Lutheran Church in Cambridge] sought refuge in the Constitution’s promise that no state shall “deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law.”

The year was 1904, and when his politically charged legal challenge to the $5 fine for failing to get vaccinated made its way to the Supreme Court

One man’s liberty, they declared in a 7-2 ruling handed down the following February, cannot deprive his neighbors of their own liberty — in this case by allowing the spread of disease.

“There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good,” read the majority opinion.

The question of whether those freedoms include refusing a legally mandated Covid-19 vaccine, should any government implement such a requirement today, has yet to come before the Supreme Court — or any court. But in the event that it does, the 116-year-old case brought by Henning Jacobson would be the standing legal precedent. In deciding whether the rules that the Jacobson decision rendered for smallpox would apply to Covid-19, today’s court would need to reckon with a different medical landscape, as well as the freighted politics of the moment.

[Justice] Harlan in this case wrote for a clear majority of the court. He concluded: “Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”

[Harlan] offers a powerful rebuttal to those who feel that personal liberty is only in play when someone is compelled to be vaccinated: The Jacobson holding suggests that other people, from co-workers to classmates to neighbors, have a corresponding liberty interest in being free from infectious disease. Like those who inhale passive smoke, they, too, are affected by a decision that others deem a matter of personal choice.

 

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11 minutes ago, corybroo said:

I’ve read a number of references to a 1905 Supreme Court ruling about mandatory vaccination.  To learn more about it, I found The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates

Here are some highlights from an article about that decision.

 

So when the Cambridge board of health decided that all adults must be vaccinated for smallpox, Jacobson [50 yr old pastor of the Swedish Lutheran Church in Cambridge] sought refuge in the Constitution’s promise that no state shall “deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law.”

The year was 1904, and when his politically charged legal challenge to the $5 fine for failing to get vaccinated made its way to the Supreme Court

One man’s liberty, they declared in a 7-2 ruling handed down the following February, cannot deprive his neighbors of their own liberty — in this case by allowing the spread of disease.

“There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good,” read the majority opinion.

The question of whether those freedoms include refusing a legally mandated Covid-19 vaccine, should any government implement such a requirement today, has yet to come before the Supreme Court — or any court. But in the event that it does, the 116-year-old case brought by Henning Jacobson would be the standing legal precedent. In deciding whether the rules that the Jacobson decision rendered for smallpox would apply to Covid-19, today’s court would need to reckon with a different medical landscape, as well as the freighted politics of the moment.

[Justice] Harlan in this case wrote for a clear majority of the court. He concluded: “Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”

[Harlan] offers a powerful rebuttal to those who feel that personal liberty is only in play when someone is compelled to be vaccinated: The Jacobson holding suggests that other people, from co-workers to classmates to neighbors, have a corresponding liberty interest in being free from infectious disease. Like those who inhale passive smoke, they, too, are affected by a decision that others deem a matter of personal choice.

 

The vaccine mandates have a very loooooooooong history here in the USA!
 

thttps://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/573043-why-george-washington-mandated-vaccines

“George Washington believed one’s freedom does not mean others should suffer as a consequence.” 


 

Edited by Mike41

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Has anyone else read about the 2018 proposal to modify some corona viruses?  Up until now, I'd believed it was "proven" not to be lab based but I just saw this LEAKED GRANT PROPOSAL DETAILS HIGH-RISK CORONAVIRUS RESEARCH about a proposal to DARPA in 2018 to insert human-specific cleavage sites into corona viruses.  This is not a smoking gun but it identifies a creditable (not proven) path from the lab..

The proposal by EcoHealth Alliance was submitted to DARPA in 2018.

One of the specific tasks in the proposal was the insertion of a proteolytic cleavage (Proteolytic cleavage is basically the process of breaking the peptide bonds between amino acids in proteins.) site able to interact with furin (an enzyme expressed in human cells). 

[The furin cleavage site] feature on the spike protein of the virus had never been seen in SARS-related betacoronaviruses, the class to which SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes the respiratory illness Covid-19, belongs.

The furin cleavage site enables the virus to more efficiently bind to and release its genetic material into a human cell and is one of the reasons that the virus is so easily transmissible and harmful.

[Arguing against lab engineering] “There is no logical reason why an engineered virus would utilize such a suboptimal furin cleavage site, which would entail such an unusual and needlessly complex feat of genetic engineering,” 23 scientists wrote earlier this month in an article in the journal Cell.

But the proposal describes the process of looking for novel furin cleavage sites in bat coronaviruses the scientists had sampled and inserting them into the spikes of SARS-related viruses in the laboratory.  “We will introduce appropriate human-specific cleavage sites and evaluate growth potential in [a type of mammalian cell commonly used in microbiology] and HAE cultures,” referring to cells found in the lining of the human airway, the proposal states.

“Given that the work wasn’t funded and wasn’t proposed to take place in Wuhan anyway it’s hard to assess any bearing on the origin of SARS-CoV-2,” Stephen Goldstein, a scientist who studies the evolution of viral genes at the University of Utah, and an author of the recent Cell article

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twitter thread reviewing recent evidence that vaccination beats natural immunity due to prior infection, in regards to breakthrough reinfection risk:

 

 

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1 hour ago, BrianA said:

twitter thread reviewing recent evidence that vaccination beats natural immunity due to prior infection, in regards to breakthrough reinfection risk

 

There's some good data points there.  Also:

E-7ukNXWYBMAlVz?format=jpg&name=large

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Also impressive data points favoring booster shots (from Israel):

E_XfiyGWEAEmV5e?format=jpg&name=900x900

"...data from Israel clearly shows boosters have very high efficacy — 91% lower risk of infection compared to 2 doses after 6 months (not even compared to unvaccinated). That’s 10x further improvement in lowering risk!"

 

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The vaccine to me is like multivitamins and medicine I don’t need.

it would be messed up in 5 or 10 years from now these vaccines do something negative to health that wasn’t foreseen.

Dont worry, if anyone ever had evidence that the vaccine was actually harmful…..no one would hear about it. 

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3 hours ago, DHL said:

t would be messed up in 5 or 10 years from now these vaccines do something negative to health that wasn’t foreseen.

How can we be so sure about the negative outcome? Given the present state of knowledge (maximum entropy), we have 50% probability that it causes effects ranging in the bad, 50% of probabilities that it causes effects ranging in the good. It may even be neutral. For all we know, in the long term it may provide longevity. Not to mention the high probability of protection it offers and the low probability of serious harm it provides. If we reason according to optimization principles, according to present data, vaccination still seems to be the right choice.

I totally respect an antivax choice, I myself am no fan of vaccines, but the motives usually provided in this pandemic context appear to be illogical.

To be honest, people should underline that's just a personal choice, without trying to justify it with missing scientific evidence.

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