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Gordo

Just curious, anyone have a plan, or preps for global pandemic?

Covid-19 Vaccine Survey  

25 members have voted

  1. 1. Your Vaccine Status is:

    • Fully vaccinated
      20
    • Partially vaccinated
      0
    • Not Vaccinated
      5
  2. 2. If not (fully) vaccinated, your reason(s) for your decision (check all that apply):

    • Not Applicable - I'm vaccinated
      19
    • The rapid vaccine development process makes me distrust them
      3
    • I'm worried about vaccine side effects
      4
    • I don't think I'm at much risk of getting a covid infection
      3
    • I don't believe a covid infection is a serious risk for someone like me
      4
    • I'm waiting until the vaccines receive final approval
      0
    • Fear of needles
      0
    • A medical condition prevents me from getting vaccines
      0
    • Bad reaction to the first dose of the covid vaccine
      0
    • I already had COVID-19 and don't think I need the vaccine for protection
      2
    • Vaccine not available where I live
      0
  3. 3. Are you OK with having your CR forum name included on a list of members who have/haven't chosen to be vaccinated?

    • Yes
      22
    • No
      3


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13 hours ago, Todd Allen said:

I am unvaccinated and I don't need help.  I am very glad to have avoided vaccination because I did not want to participate in hurrying the loss of effectiveness for those in need of protection.  Now that it is clear their effectiveness is diminishing I am glad to not be riding the booster train.  There were significant early indications that I was at minimal risk from this virus and it never felt like a personal emergency.  At this point it would seem exceptionally foolish to take a risky, poorly tested experimental emergency use vaccine with unknown long term effects offering faltering protection against a fading threat.

Lets see, all of the new variants appear to have arisen among unvaccinated populations including Omicron.  The vaccinated are still faring MUCH BETTER than the unvaccinated for ALL VARIANTS.  

"risky, poorly tested experimental emergency use vaccine"

58.2% of the world population has received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.9.15 billion doses have been administered globally

I'd say its pretty well tested at this point!  Safe and effective.   Side effects much worse if you get covid and are unvaccinated, and since everyone is likely to get it, you do the math.

FYI: FDA granted full approval, you must have missed it, happened in August.  No longer under emergency use only.

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A warning on counterfeit masks.

N95 masks: A must-have with Omicron, but fakes abound

the masks that offer the most protection are indeed the N95 and the KN95—both are approved by the U.S. government to block 95% of the new coronavirus.

over 60% of the masks that were submitted did not pass NIOSH tests

To be sure that any masks you buy is authentic, Miller advises consumers to look for the TC number on N95 masks. "It says TC—and then three more digits and then two digits and also a lot number," she said. Real N95 masks also come with a head strap.

For KN95 masks, Miller said the mask should say: "GB 2626—2019 then a space and then KN95. If it does not have that printed on the face of the mask, it is not made to the standard."

Also, the mask should have a brand name on it, Miller said. "When you see a mask that just says KN95 and no brand, you have no way to know who actually produced it, and that is not good."

Miller said one surefire clue is if the labeling claims the mask is FDA-approved or it's registered with the FDA (U.S. Food and Drug Administration).

Miller stressed that price is not an indicator as to whether a mask is the real thing or not: High-grade masks do not have to be expensive.

"You can buy a U.S.-made N95, NIOSH-rated respirator for 60 or 75 cents, so you don't have to spend a lot of money," she said.

For most people, it's good to have several masks that can be rotated. Each mask is good for approximately 40 hours of wear, Miller said.

The trick with N95 and KN95 masks is maintaining a good seal. Many people may find an N95 uncomfortable, so they may be better off with a KN95, which has ear loops and may be easier to tolerate.

masks are not the end-all and be-all of protection.

They can help ward off infection, but they need to be worn properly and changed frequently

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1 hour ago, Gordo said:

No, THIS is insanity:

Gordo, I agree, but we are now already tumbling down, in an apparently more benign but similar way. Once the stone has been put into motion, it will tumble down because of gravity.

Edited by mccoy

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On 12/29/2021 at 10:17 AM, Todd Allen said:

death statistics collected in the US as reported by Worldometer are for people who died with covid not for those who died from covid


Cf.

Quote

In a Thursday appearance on MSNBC, America's top Covid official, Dr. Anthony Fauci, admitted to a distinction between the number of children hospitalized with Covid as opposed to "because of Covid."

"And what we mean by that: If a child goes into the hospital, they automatically get tested for COVID and they get counted as a COVID-hospitalized individual, when, in fact, they may go in for a broken leg or appendicitis or something like that. So it’s over counting the number of children who are, quote, hospitalized with COVID as opposed to because of COVID," said Fauci.

 

Edited by Sibiriak

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14 hours ago, Sibiriak said:

In a Thursday appearance on MSNBC, America's top Covid official, Dr. Anthony Fauci, admitted to a distinction between the number of children hospitalized with Covid as opposed to "because of Covid."

"And what we mean by that: If a child goes into the hospital, they automatically get tested for COVID and they get counted as a COVID-hospitalized individual, when, in fact, they may go in for a broken leg or appendicitis or something like that

So there has suddenly developed a 58% increase of kids with broken legs or appendicitis and COVID in hospitals versus the low number of kids previously in hospitals with those conditions and infected with COVID?  And this new epidemic just happened to coincide with the epidemic of infections in the general population?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/covid-19-hospitalization-surge-among-us-children-spurs-new-omicron-concerns-2021-12-30/ 

Maybe kids are not so safe from omicron.

Edited by AlPater

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On 12/31/2021 at 11:27 AM, Gordo said:

I'd say its pretty well tested at this point!  Safe and effective.   Side effects much worse if you get covid and are unvaccinated, and since everyone is likely to get it, you do the math.

Lots of doses have been administered and a lot of people have died or been severely impacted by previously rare conditions shortly after receiving a dose.  To call it well tested, safe and effective would require making an effort to track what happens but instead the effort has been to hide the consequences.

The math for me is I could not possibly have done any better being vaccinated as I have not suffered from this pandemic.  If I got Covid it was essentially asymptomatic and if I didn't the protection of vaccination which needs to be renewed after 6 months would have been wasted.

What is your explanation for the recent massive spike in Covid cases in South Africa without a corresponding increase in hospitalization or deaths? They have a low vaccination rate.  Your belief that vaccination is needed to reduce risk doesn't appear supported by their data.

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5 hours ago, AlPater said:

So there has suddenly developed a 58% increase of kids with broken legs or appendicitis and COVID in hospitals versus the low number of kids previously in hospitals with those conditions and infected with COVID?  And this new epidemic just happened to coincide with the epidemic of infections in the general population?

It also coincides with the epidemic of child vaccination.

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Children under 5 do not have an FDA approved, or even an FDA emergency approved,  vaccine to take; so they're not vaccinated.  There's no "epidemic of child vaccination".

  --  Saul

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4 hours ago, Saul said:

Children under 5 do not have an FDA approved... vaccine. 

But children over 5 do.   Nearly twenty percent of those kids had been vaccinated by mid-December,  with rates in urban areas being far higher.  In some counties it was nearly 70%.    Just stating facts,  not drawing any conclusions.  I don't know what the current numbers are.   

 

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14 hours ago, Todd Allen said:
20 hours ago, AlPater said:

So there has suddenly developed a 58% increase of kids with broken legs or appendicitis and COVID in hospitals versus the low number of kids previously in hospitals with those conditions and infected with COVID?  And this new epidemic just happened to coincide with the epidemic of infections in the general population?

It also coincides with the epidemic of child vaccination.

So, vaccinated kids should have more hospitalizations?

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7 hours ago, AlPater said:

So, vaccinated kids should have more hospitalizations?

Seems likely to me.  Here's an article laying out why vaccinating kids is a bad idea.

Why are we vaccinating children against COVID-19?

This article examines issues related to COVID-19 inoculations for children. The bulk of the official COVID-19-attributed deaths per capita occur in the elderly with high comorbidities, and the COVID-19 attributed deaths per capita are negligible in children. The bulk of the normalized post-inoculation deaths also occur in the elderly with high comorbidities, while the normalized post-inoculation deaths are small, but not negligible, in children. Clinical trials for these inoculations were very short-term (a few months), had samples not representative of the total population, and for adolescents/children, had poor predictive power because of their small size. Further, the clinical trials did not address changes in biomarkers that could serve as early warning indicators of elevated predisposition to serious diseases. Most importantly, the clinical trials did not address long-term effects that, if serious, would be borne by children/adolescents for potentially decades.

 

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On 1/1/2022 at 4:21 PM, Saul said:

Children under 5 do not have an FDA approved, or even an FDA emergency approved,  vaccine to take; so they're not vaccinated.  There's no "epidemic of child vaccination".

  --  Saul

No, but there is an epidemic of mass hysteria and stupidity, demanding that EVERY child over 5 be vaccinated, or else be excluded from society.

The out-of-context nonsense of "58% increase" in hospitalizations is being used for propaganda purposes, to scare those who can't put two and two together and unite them in the war against the unvaccinated "others." China is giving plenty of rope to the West's Left by "leaking" the highly effective images of its highly limited, showcase lockdowns, with the same clear message that started this madness: "See how effectively we do it." In the long run, it will tear down the fabric of Western societies, it'll weaken the Western economies, and together with the "woke" radicalism, may bring the end of Western liberalism within our lifetime.

Scenes like this, where one part of society is forcing another to subject itself to medical treatment, or be locked down and banned from engaging in normal public activities, should give everyone but the most rabid true believers a pause:
 


 

Edited by Ron Put

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On 1/1/2022 at 6:44 PM, Todd Allen said:

What is your explanation for the recent massive spike in Covid cases in South Africa without a corresponding increase in hospitalization or deaths? They have a low vaccination rate.  Your belief that vaccination is needed to reduce risk doesn't appear supported by their data.

There was in fact a corresponding increase in hospitalizations in the Omicron epicenter of Guateng:

gauteng.jpg

The evidence suggests Omicron is a less deadly variant, that's a great thing, and the expected pathway for highly contagious diseases initially associated with high fatalities.  But just because its less deadly doesn't mean you shouldn't vaccinate, I'd rather have mild (or no) symptoms than a brutal illness that lays me out in bed for a week.

Also note the population of South Africa, while having low vaccination rates, is believed to have decent herd immunity because of high previous infection rates, they are also less obese vs. the U.S. and younger on average which all taken together translates to better outcomes.  But mortality in the UK also seems low from Omicron so it will probably be low in the U.S. as well, which is great.  Sadly though the US is not doing as well as other countries right now, we still have relatively high covid deaths, probably because we still have high levels of the delta variant: https://www.npr.org/2021/12/28/1068643344/cdc-omicron-covid-19-delta-revise-estimates

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8 hours ago, Ron Put said:

The out-of-context nonsense of "58% increase" in hospitalizations is being used for propaganda purposes, to scare those who can't put two and two together and unite them in the war against the unvaccinated "others." China is giving plenty of rope to the West's Left by "leaking" the highly effective images of its highly limited, showcase lockdowns, with the same clear message that started this madness: "See how effectively we do it." In the long run, it will tear down the fabric of Western societies, it'll weaken the Western economies, and together with the "woke" radicalism, may bring the end of Western liberalism within our lifetime.

That is starting to become a very sound hypothesis. China is working on a long-term strategy to destabilize America and western society, and it's succeeding.

The 'cancel' culture, the oppression of free speech and freedom in general, the persecution of experts whose opinions are contrary to the governments' agendas, even if coming from very competent individuals, are evident signs that America and Europe are drifting even closer to the Chinese standards.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Todd Allen said:

Why are we vaccinating children against COVID-19?

When scientists and countries the world over are convinced that vaxxing kids is fine, I have no confidence in nay-sayers.  And, there are a lot, albeit a minority, of people who seem to have axes to grind.  And, boy, do their messages get trumpeted.

" “The journal would like to alert readers to the fact that the Special Issue titled “COVID-19 Pandemic: Health impact and Novel research” including the article titled” Why are we vaccinating children against COVID-19?” are being rereviewed post-publication by an independent Editor and a new set of reviewers, due to concerns raised regarding the validity and scientific soundness of the content. Further updates will be provided to readers once the investigations have concluded. "

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221475002100216X

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15 hours ago, Ron Put said:

there is an epidemic of mass hysteria and stupidity, demanding that EVERY child over 5 be vaccinated, or else be excluded from society.

There are no demands people be vaccinated.  Vaccinations are promoted to safe guard society from the harms of COVID, and restrictions are mandated in this promotion, as well as to protect society from the harms.

Edited by AlanPater

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6 hours ago, mccoy said:
15 hours ago, Ron Put said:

The out-of-context nonsense of "58% increase" in hospitalizations is being used for propaganda purposes, to scare those who can't put two and two together and unite them in the war against the unvaccinated "others." China is giving plenty of rope to the West's Left by "leaking" the highly effective images of its highly limited, showcase lockdowns, with the same clear message that started this madness: "See how effectively we do it." In the long run, it will tear down the fabric of Western societies, it'll weaken the Western economies, and together with the "woke" radicalism, may bring the end of Western liberalism within our lifetime.

That is starting to become a very sound hypothesis. China is working on a long-term strategy to destabilize America and western society, and it's succeeding.

The 'cancel' culture, the oppression of free speech and freedom in general, the persecution of experts whose opinions are contrary to the governments' agendas, even if coming from very competent individuals, are evident signs that America and Europe are drifting even closer to the Chinese standards.

You know, the term "fear mongers" is often a term used by anti-vaxxers, but you guys are sounding like fear mongers yourselves.  I expected better from otherwise erudite people on this Forum.

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51 minutes ago, AlanPater said:

You know, the term "fear mongers" is often a term used by anti-vaxxers, but you guys are sounding like fear mongers yourselves.  I expected better from otherwise erudite people on this Forum.

Alan, thanks for the erudite and sorry if that sounded like inspiring fear, but it was more like an objective analysis of the plight of American and western democracies. I listen about the 'cancel culture', where opinions that are contrary to the government lines are deleted from facebook and twitter, I listen about doctors who are afraid to talk about side effects of vaccines, I listen about many things which resemble what China has been doing for years: regularly censoring the internet. I don't know if that's fearsome, but sure it raises legitimate concerns. I remember America as the bulwark of free speech, hate to see what's happening. I also agree that the collective good must prevail over the individual good, but citizens are now being treated like ants, and that's exactly the essence of dictatorial regimes like China.

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The drive, host Peter Attia, latest episode on COVID19 updates.

I've started to listen to it. The guests agree that the booster concept is related to an increase in the concentration of antibodies in the blood, which will tend to lower the number of cases, but such number is not a significant parameter, whereas the relevant parameter is the number of serious symptoms and hospitalizations, which a double vaccination will prevent anyway in 90% of the population, in virtue of the stimulation of memory B-cells. In such a sense, the practice of a booster dose would constitute an aberration of the practice of vaccination (my words).

On the other side, like prof Vince Racaniello believes, and as it seems to be confirmed in this Drive episode, a double dose with a short temporal distance ( a few weeks as usually done) is not very efficacious to awaken a proper immune response, so a third dose would adjust such an issue. The most correct way to go would be to wait a longer period like 6 months before the second dose, to achieve a more proper maturation of the immune system such to create cross-immunity and this would make a third dose redundant.

Everyone seems to believe 4th and further doses a weird practice at best, where it is believed that the system must always exhibit a high concentration of antibodies. This is contrary to the natural mechanism of the immune system and, as noted above, requires continuous boosting since the window of the efficacy of boosters is not a long one (about 10 weeks?).

Of course this would also efficaciously sterilize the population from the virus, but this is not what the vaccine has been designed to do. Bending the rules, is it going to be the winning strategy or will it turn out a waste of public money at best? Also, as I'm seeing in the real world, the boosting campaign is not a quick one and people are left hanging for a while without a booster. So the very same concept of total contemporary sterilization cannot be applied.

Some voices of caution against repeated booster shots are coming from very eminent 'dissidents' like Robert Malone, one of the inventors of the RNA vaccines, who has been recently been interviewed by Joe Rogan. His interview is pretty long (over 3 hours) and he articulates relevant concepts of immunology, molecular biology and vaccinology with strict scientific rigor, but I should need to listen to them a couple more times and take notes to be able to relate. He may be right, he may be wrong, but his competence in the field is undisputable.

The Joe Rogan podcast is now only accessible from the Spotify platform.

image.png.413c3f0664a5b67318fa767d17373dac.png

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A key part of the immune system's second-line defense - its T cells - are highly effective at recognizing and attacking the Omicron variant, thereby preventing most infections from progressing to critical illness, a new study shows.

"Well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron is likely to contribute to protection from severe COVID-19," which supports what South African doctors had initially suspected when most patients with Omicron infections did not become seriously ill, they said.

"Despite Omicron's extensive mutations and reduced susceptibility to neutralizing antibodies, the majority of T cell response, induced by vaccination or natural infection, cross-recognizes the variant," the researchers reported on Tuesday on medRxiv ahead of peer review.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-cannot-escape-t-cells-boosters-protect-households-omicron-2021-12-29/

Edited by Matt

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