Just curious, anyone have a plan, or preps for global pandemic?

[Ron Put]

On 3/19/2021 at 10:52 AM, AlPater said:

None so blind as those who ...

One expects more from this crowd.

Speaking of blinded by ideology, why would anyone expect unquestioning acceptance of shoddy "scientific" dogma from those who frequent this forum? Members here endlessly argue about the health repercussions of olive oil, high cholesterol or testosterone, yet you demand conformism on the currently most ideological, and least science-supported issues, which are profoundly and rapidly changing Western societies in increasingly dangerous ways, unimaginable only a few years ago?

The very nature of science is that assertions must be falsifiable. In this case, the new mask-wearing dogma used to divide the political spectrum into "us" and "them" should be challenged, as it is in fact quite likely false, especially in the case of healthy, asymptomatic wearers, outdoors.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but until the politically-motivated attacks evolved from "lockdowns for two weeks, but not masks" to "lockdowns indefinitely, with mandatory masks," the prevailing, long-standing opinion among the medical community was that there is no evidence that masks do much for healthy, asymptomatic wearers, or for those around them. Unfortunately, the Left has a long history of politicizing and corrupting science to serve its needs, and the poor collection of quickly cobbled-together,  virtue-signaling studies you link above, is a good example of it.

Yet, no large medical association I am aware of supported masks for all, until the attacks from the Left started last June.  

Even the general tone of mask proponents was much, much less certain:

Should We All Be Wearing Face Masks? Here's Why Experts Are So Conflicted

Edited March 20, 2021 by Ron Put

[Todd Allen]

On 3/20/2021 at 12:53 PM, Ron Put said:

long-standing opinion among the medical community was that there is no evidence that masks do much for healthy, asymptomatic wearers, or for those around them. Unfortunately, the Left has a long history of politicizing and corrupting science to serve its needs,

People all across the political spectrum have long valued wearing masks from ANTIFA to the KKK.   Even apolitical bank robbers, executioners and professional wrestlers have insisted on the protection of masks.  The value of masks isn't a matter of left and right or even science, just basic common sense.

[BrianA]

More evidence of brain damage in mild Covid-19 cases, including a pattern of hyperconnectivity that may lead to risk of future issues.

 

"Our findings suggest the new coronavirus affects the brain in individuals who did not require hospitalization, with persistent fatigue, headache, memory problems and somnolence even after two months of their diagnosis. We detected cognitive impairment in these patients, along with white matter abnormalities and hyperconnectivity among distinct resting-state networks. The degree of brain alterations and the severity of cognitive dysfunction raises the attention for the necessity of extensive longitudinal studies of chronic neuropsychiatric symptoms in post-COVID-19 infected individuals. Specific treatment for symptoms and neurorehabilitation strategies may be necessary to improve the quality of life and cognitive function for those with persistent limitations after the acute phase."

 

Functional and microstructural brain abnormalities, fatigue, and cognitive dysfunction after mild COVID-19

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.20.21253414v1.full-text

[Saul]

Interesting

[BrianA]

There was also evidence found of cognitive damage in this much larger study from the UK back in October. This was done via online cognitive testing / questionnaire, with a pattern of increasing cognitive damage as Covid severity increased, but even in "mild" cases some cognitive damage was detected. At the higher end of ventilated patients, approximately 8.5 IQ points were estimated lost.

 

Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19 relative to controls: An N=84,285 online study

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.20.20215863v1.full.pdf

[AlPater]

[mRNA-1273 vaccine is the Moderna vaccine.  Variant B.1.1.7 is the UK variant.  Variant B1.351 is the South Africa variant.]

Sensitivity of infectious SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.7 and B.1.351 variants to neutralizing antibodies.
Planas D, Bruel T, Grzelak L, Guivel-Benhassine F, Staropoli I, Porrot F, Planchais C, Buchrieser J, Rajah MM, Bishop E, Albert M, Donati F, Prot M, Behillil S, Enouf V, Maquart M, Smati-Lafarge M, Varon E, Schortgen F, Yahyaoui L, Gonzalez M, De Sèze J, Péré H, Veyer D, Sève A, Simon-Lorière E, Fafi-Kremer S, Stefic K, Mouquet H, Hocqueloux L, van der Werf S, Prazuck T, Schwartz O.
Nat Med. 2021 Mar 26. doi: 10.1038/s41591-021-01318-5. Online ahead of print.
PMID: 33772244
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01318-5.pdf
Abstract
Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) B.1.1.7 and B.1.351 variants were first identified in the United Kingdom and South Africa, respectively, and have since spread to many countries. These variants harboring diverse mutations in the gene encoding the spike protein raise important concerns about their immune evasion potential. Here, we isolated infectious B.1.1.7 and B.1.351 strains from acutely infected individuals. We examined sensitivity of the two variants to SARS-CoV-2 antibodies present in sera and nasal swabs from individuals infected with previously circulating strains or who were recently vaccinated, in comparison with a D614G reference virus. We utilized a new rapid neutralization assay, based on reporter cells that become positive for GFP after overnight infection. Sera from 58 convalescent individuals collected up to 9 months after symptoms, similarly neutralized B.1.1.7 and D614G. In contrast, after 9 months, convalescent sera had a mean sixfold reduction in neutralizing titers, and 40% of the samples lacked any activity against B.1.351. Sera from 19 individuals vaccinated twice with Pfizer Cominarty, longitudinally tested up to 6 weeks after vaccination, were similarly potent against B.1.1.7 but less efficacious against B.1.351, when compared to D614G. Neutralizing titers increased after the second vaccine dose, but remained 14-fold lower against B.1.351. In contrast, sera from convalescent or vaccinated individuals similarly bound the three spike proteins in a flow cytometry-based serological assay. Neutralizing antibodies were rarely detected in nasal swabs from vaccinees. Thus, faster-spreading SARS-CoV-2 variants acquired a partial resistance to neutralizing antibodies generated by natural infection or vaccination, which was most frequently detected in individuals with low antibody levels. Our results indicate that B1.351, but not B.1.1.7, may increase the risk of infection in immunized individuals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Neutralizing Antibodies Against SARS-CoV-2 Variants After Infection and Vaccination.
Edara VV, Hudson WH, Xie X, Ahmed R, Suthar MS.
JAMA. 2021 Mar 19. doi: 10.1001/jama.2021.4388. Online ahead of print.
PMID: 33739374 No abstract available.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777898

Edited March 28, 2021 by AlPater

[rudolph marcus]

Poor technique may be responsible for serious side effects of covid-19 vaccine

Covid-19 vaccines (ASTRA ZENECA) should be given with aspiration before injection. In Europe they do not aspirate so here you must ask/negotiate with your general practitioner to aspirate before injecting. This vaccinating protocol was recently changed here, I don't know what the protocols are in the US.

Based on a precautionary principle, the Statens Serum Institut has now announced that aspiration is recommended for all approved covid-19 vaccines. It is otherwise a practice not followed in the general guidelines, and it has created confusion.

"If the vaccine is given incorrectly and hits the bloodstream - and not just the shoulder muscles - it can in the worst case give such a violent, systemic and inflammatory reaction that it can lead to many small blood clots in, among other things, lungs," said Niels Høiby, professor and chief physician at the University of Copenhagen and Rigshospitalet for the journal.

Health recommendations can be read in the "Guideline for the management of vaccination against COVID-19" from February 5 to sst.dk . The Statens Serum Institut's report of 18 March can be found on ssi.dk under the tab "Injection technique" and "Intramuscular injection in children and adults".

 

https://dsr.dk/politik-og-nyheder/nyhed/covid-19-vacciner-skal-gives-med-aspiration-foer-injektion

 

 

 

 

[Saul]

The link opens into a Danish site, with no clear way to translate it.

  --  Saul

[Saul]

1 hour ago, rudolph marcus said:

"If the vaccine is given incorrectly and hits the bloodstream - and not just the shoulder muscles - it can in the worst case give such a violent, systemic and inflammatory reaction that it can lead to many small blood clots in, among other things, lungs," said Niels Høiby, professor and chief physician at the University of Copenhagen and Rigshospitalet for the journal.

Health recommendations can be read in the "Guideline for the management of vaccination against COVID-19" from February 5 to sst.dk . The Statens Serum Institut's report of 18 March can be found on ssi.dk under the tab "Injection technique" and "Intramuscular injection in children and adults".

 

"Poor technique may be responsible for serious side effects of covid-19 vaccine".  Two things wrong with this statement:

(1) There have been no "serious side effects" in reported intramuscular injection of any COVID19 vaccine in the US, except for those who are immunocompromised.

I think the "information" in this Copenhagen source is "misinformation".

(2) No reported blood clots as a side effect to our mrna vaccines; and AstroZeneca vaccine tests in the US show no such effect either.  (True, there have been some such cases reported in the EU -- but there were very few, and the EU encourages all Europeans to take the vaccine when offered it).

  --  Saul

The most com9monly given vaccines for COV-19 are the mnra vaccines: Pfizer and Moderna.  But Astra Zeneca is likely to receive approval soon.  The recommended procedure for injection is simply to inject intramuscularly (the same as for almost every vaccine).  No such concerns have been expressed in the US --

[AlPater]

Pfizer, Moderna COVID-19 vaccines highly effective after 1st shot in real-world, U.S. study suggests
Findings add to evidence base supporting COVID-19 vaccines
Thomson Reuters · Posted: Mar 29, 2021
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/mrna-covid-19-vaccines-cdc-effectiveness-1.5968376
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Interim Estimates of Vaccine Effectiveness of BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 COVID-19 Vaccines in Preventing SARS-CoV-2 Infection Among Health Care Personnel, First Responders, and Other Essential and Frontline Workers — Eight U.S. Locations, December 2020–March 2021
MMWR Early Release / March 29, 2021 / 70
Mark G. Thompson et al
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm?s_cid=mm7013e3_w#T2_down
[It was 80% after 2 weeks for first dose.]

[Gordo]

3 hours ago, AlPater said:

[It was 80% after 2 weeks for first dose.]

In that case, maybe they should stop giving two doses at least until everyone that wants the vaccine has had a chance to get it.

[Ron Put]

23 hours ago, Saul said:

The most com9monly given vaccines for COV-19 are the mnra vaccines: Pfizer and Moderna.  But Astra Zeneca is likely to receive approval soon.

Actually, Novavax will likely be approved in a month or so, too. I am in the US trial and it has great results so far in the UK and South Africa. It's a more conventional vaccine using protein nanoparticles and an adjuvant. I believed it'll be released as Covovax.

 

On 3/27/2021 at 1:30 PM, BrianA said:

There was also evidence found of cognitive damage in this much larger study from the UK back in October.

Yeah, and it's also pretty apparent that it's not unique to Covid-19. While the media is amplifying every study showing that there are lingering effects, this is common to most viral (and bacterial) infections. There was even a term coined for "typhoid heart attacks" a century or more ago when it was observed that those who recovered from typhoid were significantly more likely to die of a heart attack. Similarly with lung scarring (if I recall, 40% of healthy people who recover from influenza show lung scarring months after the infection).

And it's the same for neurological issues. Just a couple of examples:

Neurologic Complications of Influenza B Virus Infection in Adults, Romania

Long-Term Cognitive Impairment after Hospitalization for Community-Acquired Pneumonia: a Prospective Cohort Study

It amazes me that some of the same people who never get a flu shot and scoff at pneumonia shots, are among the most irrationally worried about Covid-19. The flu often kills as many 25-50-year-olds as Covid does, and it normally kills a much higher number of kids. But between the polarization of the pandemic, the resulting fearmongering, and the inability of most of us to make rational risk assessments, especially when influenced by propaganda, we have been plunged in a bizarre state of fear (and loathing toward the "others.").

[rudolph marcus]

On 3/30/2021 at 12:29 AM, Saul said:

The link opens into a Danish site, with no clear way to translate it.

  --  Saul

Google translate (right click and choose translate) if you use chrome 😉 , here a snerp

Covid-19 vaccines should be given with aspiration before injection

Based on a precautionary principle, the Statens Serum Institut has now announced that aspiration is recommended for all approved covid-19 vaccines. It is otherwise a practice not followed in the general guidelines, and it has created confusion.

 

Created: 20.03.2021

Marianne Bom, redaktionen@dsr.dk

The Danish Health and Medicines Authority's guidelines have long recommended this, and now the Statens Serum Institut is following suit. Thus, there is agreement between the two authorities that a special precautionary principle should apply when vaccinating against covid-19.

Vaccination personnel should ensure that they are injected correctly into a muscle and not into the bloodstream by withdrawing the plunger of the needle slightly, aspirating, before administration. This was announced by the Statens Serum Institut on 18 March following reports of a possible connection between the AstraZeneca vaccine and rare but serious side effects with blood clots and bleeding. Usually, according to the health authorities, one does not need to aspirate before injecting a vaccine.

The AstraZeneca vaccine was paused in Denmark on 11 March for a preliminary two weeks after reports of these rare, serious possible side effects.

 

[rudolph marcus]

Btw, it used to be good practice, as you can read in older protocols, to aspirate when injecting into the M Deltoids , somewhere along the line this practice is abandoned. Now every country has its own rules but mostly in accordance with the WHO protocol and they advice NOT to aspirate when vaccinate, probably due to the fact that aspiration need some skills and is a bit more painful.

It is known that once the ent fluid enters directly into the bloodstream instead of staying in muscle tissue, it can cause major problems, so one have to ask the nurse/doctor for the aspiration procedure and I would do so

On 3/30/2021 at 12:44 AM, Saul said:

The most com9monly given vaccines for COV-19 are the mnra vaccines: Pfizer and Moderna.  But Astra Zeneca is likely to receive approval soon.  The recommended procedure for injection is simply to inject intramuscularly (the same as for almost every vaccine).  No such concerns have been expressed in the US --

for all injections, mRNA aswel as the vectorvaccins,  such as AZ en Novavax.

"If the vaccine is given incorrectly and hits the bloodstream - and not just the shoulder muscles - it can in the worst case give such a violent, systemic and inflammatory reaction that it can lead to many small blood clots in, among other things, lungs," said Niels Høiby, professor and chief physician at the University of Copenhagen and Rigshospitalet for the journal.

[rudolph marcus]

On 3/30/2021 at 12:44 AM, Saul said:

The most com9monly given vaccines for COV-19 are the mnra vaccines: Pfizer and Moderna.  But Astra Zeneca is likely to receive approval soon.  The recommended procedure for injection is simply to inject intramuscularly (the same as for almost every vaccine).  No such concerns have been expressed in the US --

I am not (yet) aware of problems with the mRNA vaccins in relation with blood cloths and thrombocytopenia. There are risks with the AZ vaccins, although they are very rare, as you should aspect if the aspiration hypothesis is true. Although they are rare they are certainly real and every case is one to many if it is this easy to prevent. 

The rational to proceed the vaccination campagne is the worse outcome in death counts in the not vaccinated ones. 

Btw: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56580728 and 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/30/health/astrazeneca-germany-vaccine-intl-grm/index.html

Germany will only administer AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine to people aged 60 and above, Chancellor Angela Merkel said Tuesday, following the advice of the country's vaccine committee. The move follows reports of rare blood clots in the brains of 31 people following the first dose since the shots started being administered in the country.

[Saul]

The US, EU and WHO don't recommend aspiration prior to vaccination for any vaccines; details on needle length, angle etc. are provided.  Aspiration is not even mentioned in any of the basic guidelines.

Perhaps this procedure is unique to Danish physicians -- possibly just a subset of danish physicians?

  --  Saul

 

[rudolph marcus]

29 minutes ago, Saul said:

The US, EU and WHO don't recommend aspiration prior to vaccination for any vaccines; details on needle length, angle etc. are provided.  Aspiration is not even mentioned in any of the basic guidelines.

Perhaps this procedure is unique to Danish physicians -- possibly just a subset of danish physicians?

  --  Saul

 

that doesn't makes me more comfortabel getting my vaccination. Here a link how this question was answered a few years ago, the changed protocol not to aspirate stinks imo and since this Covid-19 vaccination is closely monitored it is now revealing far more precise the (deadly) side effects due to injecting in the veine, which are easily preventable. So why take a risk ?

https://www.ntvg.nl/artikelen/hoe-zinvol-het-opzuigen-van-de-injectievloeistof-na-het-insteken-van-de-injectienaald-voor/volledig

How useful is drawing up the injection fluid after inserting the injection needle for the intramuscular administration of vaccines?

ANSWER. Some vaccines are injected intramuscularly. It is good practice that after the injection needle has been inserted to the correct depth, the plunger of the syringe is momentarily withdrawn while the needle is fixed to verify that no blood vessel has been punctured. If so, the needle can be repositioned or re-pricked. The empty artis injection also requires that the injection site is properly fixed so that the needle does not move after the correct injection position has been established.

It is undesirable that vaccines are injected intravascularly, especially at the high speed associated with an intramuscular injection. Due to the local depot effect, an optimal immunogenic concentration of the vaccine must be built up; systemic 'leakage' of these may reduce the immune response. Acute side effects can also occur when vaccines, often of a special composition (bacterial suspension, aluminum phosphate or hydroxide gel), are introduced into the circulation in high concentration. This may be manifested by anaphylactic reactions due to sudden massive antigen-antibody reactions, or signs of drug embolism due to the precipitation of poorly soluble substances; irritation of the vessel wall can also occur. 1In practice, these reactions occur extremely rarely, possibly partly due to the good way of injection. In infants or toddlers who are struggling to get out of the fixation required for an injection, it is not always possible to prevent the needle from moving due to the movement after monitoring and the vaccine from entering a blood vessel. Also, some have a habit of not doing the check at all. They say they have never seen any direct adverse effects of this, but the chance that a larger blood vessel will be punctured is small. Reduced efficacy is of course not apparent immediately after vaccine administration. The vaccine can also end up in a vessel or subcutaneously with the still used, but incorrect way of injecting, in which the liquid is injected backwards.

Due to the low risk of major consequences, it is recommended to check the position of the needle using a relatively simple method of drawing up liquid before injecting.

[rudolph marcus]

1 hour ago, Saul said:

The US, EU and WHO don't recommend aspiration prior to vaccination for any vaccines; details on needle length, angle etc. are provided.  Aspiration is not even mentioned in any of the basic guidelines.

Perhaps this procedure is unique to Danish physicians -- possibly just a subset of danish physicians?

  --  Saul

 

No this is now official in Denmark until the investigation is completed.

https://www.ssi.dk/vaccinationer/injektionsteknik/intramuskulaer-injektion-beorn-og-voksne 

Usually one does not need to aspirate before injecting a vaccine. However, in connection with the investigation of a possible association between the injection of covid-19 vaccine from AstraZeneca and the occurrence of rare but severe cases of blood clots and bleeding, SSI recommends, for the time being, on a precautionary principle, to aspirate before administration. This applies to all the approved covid-19 vaccines, both for injection into the deltoid muscle, but also for the alternative option of injection into the vastus lateral muscle, if injection into the deltoid muscle is not possible.

[Saul]

Rudolph,

IMO you're better off getting whatever COVID19 vaccine that you can as soon as you can -- your danger of the getting the possibly fatal disease is both real and great -- the danger of getting jabbed with a needle is at most possibly real and definitely both minute and trivial.

  --  Saul 

[Mike41]

15 hours ago, Saul said:

Rudolph,

IMO you're better off getting whatever COVID19 vaccine that you can as soon as you can -- your danger of the getting the possibly fatal disease is both real and great -- the danger of getting jabbed with a needle is at most possibly real and definitely both minute and trivial.

  --  Saul 

I agree totally. Got two moderna shots and glad I did

[AlPater]

Viewpoint
March 31, 2021
The Leading Causes of Death in the US for 2020
Farida B. Ahmad, MPH1; Robert N. Anderson, PhD2
JAMA. Published online March 31, 2021. doi:10.1001/jama.2021.5469
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234?guestAccessKey=0b94e087-4b87-458d-b869-a1aa164eb8a6&utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jama&utm_content=olf&utm_term=033121
Vital statistics data provide the most complete assessment of annual mortality burden and contribute key measurements of the direct and indirect mortality burden during a public health pandemic. While mortality statistics have historically been produced annually, the COVID-19 pandemic introduced a pressing need for the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) National Vital Statistics System (NVSS) to rapidly release reliable provisional mortality data. Provisional estimates indicate a 17.7% increase in the number of deaths in 2020 (the increase in the age-adjusted rate was 15.9%) compared with 2019, with increases in many leading causes of death.1 The provisional leading cause-of-death rankings for 2020 indicate that COVID-19 was the third leading cause of death in the US behind heart disease and cancer.1

[Saul]

6 hours ago, Mike41 said:

I agree totally. Got two moderna shots and glad I did

Good for you.

  --  Saul

 

[rudolph marcus]

On 4/1/2021 at 12:36 AM, Saul said:

Rudolph,

IMO you're better off getting whatever COVID19 vaccine that you can as soon as you can -- your danger of the getting the possibly fatal disease is both real and great -- the danger of getting jabbed with a needle is at most possibly real and definitely both minute and trivial.

  --  Saul 

The figures are clear and no one should ignore the danger of Covid19. However, the change of dying of Covid19 will vary among different age groups, gender, and co-morbidities  and is roughly 1 out of 100 for people who get infected, and is for my age group about 2% (55-65) but for young woman (far) less than  0,001% . The risk of getting lethal blood-cloths is 1- 100.000, but for young woman far greater, so the relative risks are closing in for these young woman.

But that being said, this is not what I am discussing here. Apart from the figures, if there is a (easy) way to reduce the serious side effects then one should take appropriate action, at least the responsible governments should, and if they not take their responsibilities then one should take their own. So just tell the doctor to aspirate (this will no-one hurt), until it is proven wrong and my gut feeling say's this is a real problem/risk.

[BrianA]

Strain on NHS as tens of thousands of staff suffer long Covid

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/03/nhs-feels-strain-tens-thousands-staff-long-covid

 

"At least 122,000 NHS personnel have the condition, the Office for National Statistics disclosed in a detailed report that showed 1.1 million people in the UK were affected by the condition. That is more than any other occupational group and ahead of teachers, of whom 114,000 have it.

Patient care is being hit because many of those struggling with long Covid are only able to work part-time, are too unwell to perform their usual duties, or often need time off because they are in pain, exhausted or have “brain fog”."

[Gordo]

I'm excited to be scheduled for vaccination this weekend.  I guess they finally worked through the backlog of "high priority" people in my area, just got the notification of eligibility today.  Was able to pick the J&J single shot too, which is what I was hoping for...