Postmeal hyperglycemia - how much is too much?

[Alex K Chen]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2811482/

like, is anything above 140 problematic?

I noticed this when eating oatmeal (oh yeah this means I should cut out most grains except in small quantities). Fruits don't increase it *that* much but berries (a few of them) take it almost all the way to 140 (need to test with higher berry quantities)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109707034444

=>one of the most impt papers EVER

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by InquilineKea

[Dean Pomerleau]

8 hours ago, InquilineKea said:

, is anything above 140 [mg/dL] problematic?

Yes. Quite probably. 

8 hours ago, InquilineKea said:

oh yeah this means I should cut out most grains except in small quantities

No. Not necessarily. A short bout of post meal exercise is an alternative, quite effective means of blunting the post-meal glucose spike. 

--Dean 

[mccoy]

10 hours ago, InquilineKea said:

like, is anything above 140 problematic?

We are speaking 2 hours after meals. The guidelines do not specify any threshold values for the first 1.99 hours after meals. Being above the 140 mg/dL value 2 hours after meals means that, according to scientific consensus, there is a pronounced dysregulation in the short-time control of the intensity of glucose peaks. 

Whereas an index of the goodness (or badness) of long-time glucose homeostasis is fasting glycemia early in the morning (but not always, since cortisol-epinephrine peaks may interfere)

Edited November 4, 2021 by mccoy

[Dean Pomerleau]

Excerpts from past Michael posts on the evidence that large and/or prolonged postmeal glucose excursions are intrinsically harmful, especially for skinny people:

One of the studies discussed there shows that if your glucose hasn't returned to its fasting level (or below) by 2 hours after a meal, you're at elevated risk of dying from CVD or any cause, even if your fasting glucose is within the normal range. 

--Dean 

[Alex K Chen]

^holy shit

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/#__ffn_sectitle

[Mike41]

After eating my veggie (carrots, potatoes, cabbage, broccoli, lentils, spices, pomegranate juice, beet juice, vinegar, tomato sauce, green onions, zucchini, yams, celery, kale, grape, orange, Apple meal in ONE hour my glucose is consistently mid 90’s with no exercise for that hour. No added fats btw or animal proteins. All whole food vegetables legumes and fruit and a big ass bowl at that.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Mike41

[mccoy]

On 11/6/2021 at 4:05 PM, Mike41 said:

After eating my veggie (carrots, potatoes, cabbage, broccoli, lentils, spices, pomegranate juice, beet juice, vinegar, tomato sauce, green onions, zucchini, yams, celery, kale, grape, orange, Apple meal in ONE hour my glucose is consistently mid 90’s with no exercise for that hour. No added fats btw or animal proteins. All whole food vegetables legumes and fruit and a big ass bowl at that.

Mike, the glucose response you describe is good, but it is possible that you are missing some peaks by prick & strip checking.

[Mike41]

4 hours ago, mccoy said:

Mike, the glucose response you describe is good, but it is possible that you are missing some peaks by prick & strip checking.

McCoy Not sure what you mean? I test at various times. I also purposely eat junk, sugar to see if I react and of course I do. Like 120-150. The one disappointment is that it never goes below 95ish even after 14 hour fasting. I think 85 ish would be preferable. Seems odd that a large carb meal would be the same 1 hour after eating it as a 14 hour fast?

Edited November 7, 2021 by Mike41

[mccoy]

Mike, I see the glucose signal with an engineering perspective. From the theory of signals, you can miss high frequency components if your sampling step is too sparse. With strip glucometers, it is not common to take frequent measurements. I saw it in myself with a CGM, and I saw it in my son who is wearing it now. There are some peaks which come and go in half an hour. They are easily missed if the usual procedure of taking a sample before eating, then after an hour, then after 2 hours is followed. 

It may not be your case but again, probability of missing peaks is greater the more the distance between sampling points. Also, if you measured after junk foods with the same procedure, then you have a comparison with similar sampling steps and it's interesting to note that junk food does provide a distinct peak. The causes presented by the theory may be many, as the regulatory effect of fiber or even the presence or absence of fats, it the IML stands true.

What I observed though is that not all junk food originates pronounced glucose peaks. Last summer,  I had a large serving of a birthday cake, replete with fats, starch and sugar, and was surprised to see that there were no peaks, rather a mound. OF course, even if not hyperglycemic, that meal was surely not a healthy one.

You alluded in another post to your not-so-low fasting BG, but if it keeps pretty constant throughout the day at 95 mg/dL I'd say that's pretty good. I cannot think about any causes, but glucose homeostasis has many components. Slightly hyperactive background glucagon secretion? Slightly underactive background insulin levels?  Have you consulted an endocrinologist, just for the sake of an expert opinion? 

[Mike41]

On 11/8/2021 at 2:01 AM, mccoy said:

Mike, I see the glucose signal with an engineering perspective. From the theory of signals, you can miss high frequency components if your sampling step is too sparse. With strip glucometers, it is not common to take frequent measurements. I saw it in myself with a CGM, and I saw it in my son who is wearing it now. There are some peaks which come and go in half an hour. They are easily missed if the usual procedure of taking a sample before eating, then after an hour, then after 2 hours is followed. 

It may not be your case but again, probability of missing peaks is greater the more the distance between sampling points. Also, if you measured after junk foods with the same procedure, then you have a comparison with similar sampling steps and it's interesting to note that junk food does provide a distinct peak. The causes presented by the theory may be many, as the regulatory effect of fiber or even the presence or absence of fats, it the IML stands true.

What I observed though is that not all junk food originates pronounced glucose peaks. Last summer,  I had a large serving of a birthday cake, replete with fats, starch and sugar, and was surprised to see that there were no peaks, rather a mound. OF course, even if not hyperglycemic, that meal was surely not a healthy one.

You alluded in another post to your not-so-low fasting BG, but if it keeps pretty constant throughout the day at 95 mg/dL I'd say that's pretty good. I cannot think about any causes, but glucose homeostasis has many components. Slightly hyperactive background glucagon secretion? Slightly underactive background insulin levels?  Have you consulted an endocrinologist, just for the sake of an expert opinion? 

Hi again, I’m not concerned about missing peaks. I do extensive testing once a year and have never seen  an aberration. I do this until the strips run out and leave it at that. I am very active and never sit for long periods without getting up and moving. IAC, I think the carb thing is tricky, but in my case at least sticking with whole, unprocessed carbs and mixing starchy ones, fruits and unstarchy along with a spicy vinegar dressing and legumes causes no problems and tastes impressively delicious!!

Edited November 9, 2021 by Mike41