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Methionine Restriction Extends Lifespan-What's Optimal For Protein Intake? n=1 Analysis


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Plant foods generally have lower methionine content, so vegans should have a significantly lower intake.

I may have missed it, but did you check your methionine intake variations, rather than protein specifically?

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9 hours ago, Mike Lustgarten said:

 

 

Mike,

These figures are for non-CR people or rodents  You should expect different numbers for significantly CR'd people/rodents -- unclear whether protein restriction, or methionine restriction, is more beneficial for the calorie restricted.

  --  Saul

 

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4 hours ago, Mike Lustgarten said:

Do you mean methionine from plants vs animal products?

Actually, it was a question specifically about variations in your methionine intake and how it correlates with your data. Cronometer tracks methionine, as well as total protein intake.

But I'd be curious about your take on animal vs. plant protein too. I've seen studies claiming that plant protein is considerably less detrimental, and my guess is that its lower methionine content has something to do with it.

P.S. A couple of other unrelated questions I've been meaning to ask you:

- What Garmin do you use for HRV tracking?
- How did you get oxalate values from Cronometer? I don't see a specific field, only the oxalate/calcium ratio -- did you extrapolate, or am I missing something (I haven't really searched in Cronometer)?

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16 hours ago, Ron Put said:

Actually, it was a question specifically about variations in your methionine intake and how it correlates with your data. Cronometer tracks methionine, as well as total protein intake.

But I'd be curious about your take on animal vs. plant protein too. I've seen studies claiming that plant protein is considerably less detrimental, and my guess is that its lower methionine content has something to do with it.

P.S. A couple of other unrelated questions I've been meaning to ask you:

- What Garmin do you use for HRV tracking?
- How did you get oxalate values from Cronometer? I don't see a specific field, only the oxalate/calcium ratio -- did you extrapolate, or am I missing something (I haven't really searched in Cronometer)?

Calcium blocks oxalate absorption. So if you include it with high oxalate foods it’s not a problem. Water is also good to include with high oxalates and is probably why teas with high oxalates are not associated with kidney stones

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17 hours ago, Ron Put said:

Actually, it was a question specifically about variations in your methionine intake and how it correlates with your data. Cronometer tracks methionine, as well as total protein intake.

But I'd be curious about your take on animal vs. plant protein too. I've seen studies claiming that plant protein is considerably less detrimental, and my guess is that its lower methionine content has something to do with it.

P.S. A couple of other unrelated questions I've been meaning to ask you:

- What Garmin do you use for HRV tracking?
- How did you get oxalate values from Cronometer? I don't see a specific field, only the oxalate/calcium ratio -- did you extrapolate, or am I missing something (I haven't really searched in Cronometer)?

Unfortunately, Cronometer doesn't include methionine intake for all foods-for example it isn't listed for the brand of sardines or cacao that I commonly eat. That's why I went with total protein instead.

I average 85g of fiber/d, so I eat lots of plants and correspondingly, plant protein. If I calculated it, at least 70% of my protein intake is from plants, with the rest from animal sources (fish, yogurt, some parmesan cheese).

I use WHOOP,  not Garmin...

Cronometer recently added oxalate to its measures. It's under "Settings-->Profile and Targets", and then at the bottom of the page you can make oxalate visible.

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1 hour ago, Mike41 said:

Calcium blocks oxalate absorption. So if you include it with high oxalate foods it’s not a problem. Water is also good to include with high oxalates and is probably why teas with high oxalates are not associated with kidney stones

My average calcium intake is 1200 mg/d, but I've averaged as high as 2000 mg of oxalate/d. When considering that calcium binds 1:1 to oxalate, I wonder how much calcium I would actually absorb with that much oxalate. I'm not worried about kidney stones, but in contrast, bone density. I've since replaced my 5-6 oz of daily spinach with collards, which are low in oxalates.

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On 5/2/2022 at 4:42 PM, Mike Lustgarten said:

My average calcium intake is 1200 mg/d, but I've averaged as high as 2000 mg of oxalate/d. When considering that calcium binds 1:1 to oxalate, I wonder how much calcium I would actually absorb with that much oxalate. I'm not worried about kidney stones, but in contrast, bone density. I've since replaced my 5-6 oz of daily spinach with collards, which are low in oxalates.

Sounds like you’ve made a good choice with the switch. None other than Michael Rae years ago mentioned concerns wrt spinach due to its high oxalates

Edited by Mike41
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On 5/2/2022 at 1:40 PM, Mike Lustgarten said:

Cronometer recently added oxalate to its measures. It's under "Settings-->Profile and Targets", and then at the bottom of the page you can make oxalate visible.

Thanks for this, I hadn't seen it.

I have become more skeptical about the oxalate "problem" as I've read about it. It doesn't make sense and there are likely other factors. Otherwise, there would have been a more noticeable connection between, say spinach consumption, and mortality. Instead, the opposite appears to be true:  See this and this, for example.

For what it's worth, US calcium recommendations appear to be rather inflated, due at least partially to hard lobbying by the dairy industry, based on what I've read.

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I'm not worried about oxalate causing kidney stones, but bone density. Oxalate binds calcium 1:1, so with a higher intake of oxalate than calcium, even on a calcium-sufficient diet (> RDA), I'd bet that there could be issues related to bone density. I haven't come across any published literature for that, unfortunately. But also, most people don't eat 180g of spinach/d, so it's unlikely that data exists.

I already get a sufficient amount of nitrates from ~210g of daily beets, and have replaced the spinach with collards, which are low in oxalates yet still high in Vitamin K. We'll see if/how the switch affects my blood biomarkers on upcoming tests.

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