Found a semaglutide/tirzepatide source. Does anyone want to stockpile just in case?

[Alex K Chen]

reddit deleted the /r/semaglutidecompounds subreddit a few days ago... sad, especially b/c there are so many psychedelic subreddits (eg DrugNerds) that go untouched...

Edited May 14 by Alex K Chen

[Alex K Chen]

It's tragic (and ironic) that more people on this forum aren't interested in semaglutide..

[IgorF]

Maybe I do not understand the reasons to do it, I checked quickly and found no even very weak reason to stockpile it for a healthy person.

Here is an assessment that claims 30 months shelf-life for a serious product https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/assessment-report/rybelsus-epar-public-assessment-report_en.pdf

What shelf-life will be for gray-marketed unknown quality product is the question right next to the question of risks with taking not essential but rather "additional line" drug.

Few years ago I was curious for shelf life of wellknown antibiotics and they had comparable _tested_ shelf life in average, so I suspect that semaglutide will have even shorter in reality but that is obviously just a guess.

Am I missing something essential in this topic?

Br,

Igor

[Shezian]

My husband was on saxenda for 5 months and lost 20 kilos. We have left over saxenda as he is happy with his weight, l am tempted to take it, but am worried about healthy risks. Are there any major health risks associated with these kind of drugs? I would like to lose 5 kilos but am always hungry.

[Alex K Chen]

Fatigue, but not much else. You're taking *more* risk from eating more food (all food has risk associated with it) than from reducing your consumption from semaglutide. If it's too much for you, you can stop the next week.

I injected 15% of 5mg on Nov20 and still feel appetite-suppressing effects. The doses needed for CR are way lower (and act way more quickly) than the doses needed for weight loss.

Edited December 1, 2023 by InquilineKea

[Gordo]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:50 PM, InquilineKea said:

It's tragic (and ironic) that more people on this forum aren't interested in semaglutide..

My take is that most here either don't want to do CR or they don't have trouble doing CR and therefore don't need drug assistance. You are the first person I've encountered that is self injecting the stuff without a prescription and without being obese. There are potentially a lot of side effects

My obese mother in law lost over 100 lbs using it, definitely worked great for her. I'm skeptical of it's use in healthy people or for CR practioners. It seems similar to using metformin in some ways (which I'm also skeptical about). Pfizer was in the news last week, they had done clinical trials on an oral form of a semaglutide like drug (same class) but the side effects were so severe that they gave up on it.

Can you elaborate on why you are using this drug? Do you plan to keep using it indefinitely? I think it's rather extreme and possibly dangerous if you don't need to lose weight. It may interfere with your ability to eat healthy food and get adequate nutrition.

 

[Shezian]

What about taking it in small doses only when needed and short term, for only a month or so? Are the risks any less if you taken this way?

[Gordo]

17 hours ago, Shezian said:

What about taking it in small doses only when needed and short term, for only a month or so? Are the risks any less if you taken this way?

How do you define "only when needed"?  This isn't really a weight loss group, but yea if you felt like you needed to lose some weight to be healthier I'm sure the drug could help, millions of people are taking it for that already. But it is also widely reported that once you stop taking it people generally just go back to their old ways of eating and gain back the weight.  If you want to shed excess weight why not just eat plant based whole foods for a while?  Or fast? Or go to two meals a day? Or start an exercise routine (10 minute HIIT workouts are free on YouTube and require no equipment).

Is it a self discipline problem?

[mccoy]

One serious detrimental effect of semaglutide discussed in Peter Attia's AMAs seems to be the tendency to cause muscle weight loss in a significant measure, besides loss of adiposity.

[Alex K Chen]

(I already knew the answer, but it's nice to have someone else phrase it better ). regardless it's just too easy to cheat on CR - that's why so few people can consistently do it

https://www.rapamycin.news/t/intermittent-oral-rybelsus-semaglutide-use-in-healthy-individuals/642

Anyways, semaglutide increases the pool of people who could find this forum useful... (sadly, very few people read it, but it also lets me post more of my thoughts here b/c they won't get drowned out by other replies)

Edited December 15, 2023 by InquilineKea

[Shezian]

If l took this drug once per week l think it would be enough to stop me from being hungry to be able to practise  low calorie daily for the entire week.  Just not sure if this drug can be used in this way. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Shezian

[IgorF]

Huberman in one of his podcasts mentioned that gray area peptides are very often seriously contaminated with LPS.

Just googled due to curiosity and found https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-fda-found-lapses-novos-main-us-factory-may-2022-report-2023-09-20/

I do not know if there are completely "mechanical" synthesys paths being used in production for semaglutide and how to assess the risks I am just adding a potential angle of view.

Br,

Igor

 

UPDATE:

after some googling it seems that commercial manufacturing for semaglutide is done with recombinant step, unlike pure synthetic way of its first discovery (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.medidd.2020.100071), thus a proper contamination controls is a must for the manufacturing company. EU's regulations also states it (https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/assessment-report/ozempic-epar-public-assessment-report_en.pdf)

It is hard to assess the things in percents but intuitively it could be easily up to 40% of the final production price to control the contamination and no idea how much additionally to pass through all the required regulatory procedures.

Beckman's article sheds some light on a typical things surrounding it https://www.beckman.com/resources/reading-material/application-notes/automating-biopharma-quality-control-to-reduce-costs

So, maybe semaglutide's risks are on their own is a one side of the picture but gray area markets for it is definitely a separate risk zone that has to be taken into account on its own.

 

UPDATE2:

found an interesting brief on recombinant proteins economics

https://excellgene.com/2019/06/recombinant-proteins-industrial-vs-pharmaceutical-use-review-of-process-and-pricing/

Semaglutide is far from complicated and very expensive proteins for "-ab" drugs or vacccines, probably much closer to what is called industrial usage while it is obviously occupying the lower cost area of pharmaceutical usage. Maybe the business model for cheaper production originates completely in the absence of tight controls and regulatory requirements, not just in lower wages of production line employees and taxation. So some controls are obviously has to be there - if too many people will report bad reactions it will be much more visible than a similar thing for street drug users, but on the other case - the worst thing for producer in uncontrolled remote areas is to re-brand and continue, I don't see other risks for them thus i doubt they could be serious with qc measures that will kick them out of business if voluntaristic.

Maybe I am too pessimistic but that is the way I personally would assess the risks for myself if I will face a requirement to buy similar things on my own.

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by IgorF

[Gordo]

FYI if you found cheap semaglutide it is very likely fake:

Fake Ozempic Seized by FDA as Demand for Obesity Drugs Soars

• FDA warns against use of counterfeit versions of drug
• Europe’s drug regulator has also raised concern over fakes

[Alex K Chen]

Very important concern, but "very likely fake" is a strong (and unbelievable) claim

I already ordered one of the peptides and it had a strong effect in me. Whether worth the "risks" is another question, and I'm always worried my source will close down at any time...

[Alex K Chen]

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2024/01/why-you-will-stop-losing-weight-ozempic/677148/

well if they still eat less, it's a good thing, b/c it's the animals that KEEP weight that live longer under CR

I need 14% of 5mg in order to achieve noticeable appetite reduction that makes me eat the ideal number of calories per day (sadly I'm very neurotic and I overeat A LOT when I'm not on semaglutide even tho I don't gain weight, so I'm gonna be on this for a long time).

Edited January 24 by InquilineKea

[Alex K Chen]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02026-4

(this is 2.3mg/week)

==

I "need" 15% of 5mg each week. I took 14% of 5mg a week ago and noticed appetite return hugely last two days (tho i was able to rely on low-calorie food much of it - i was also on weed which might have increased appetite).

100/15 is 6.6 doses, which means it should last ~1.5 months per dose assuming i'm not ALWAYS on it. That's also like $74 per 1.5 months, which is so easily a steal financially if it means i eat 30% less *and especially* don't binge eat when the only food available is expensive or unhealthy.

==

Also if you don't lose that much weight, you don't lose much muscle mass. For CR purposes, the optimal use of semaglutide is enough to cut calories by 20-30%, which isn't enough for weight loss.

I last injected semaglutide on January 30, but I notice my calorie consumption is not THAT much lower despite lower hunger most of the time. It just means I eat later in the day and I actually notice fatigue BEFORE eating. And sometimes only need one meal for lunch [eg one life alive]

Edited February 4 by InquilineKea

[Ron Put]

On 11/22/2023 at 6:50 PM, InquilineKea said:

It's tragic (and ironic) that more people on this forum aren't interested in semaglutide..

Why would anyone who is healthy and actually cares about health jump on this bandwagon?

See the video linked in the post below, for just a few of the reasons why one should stay away from this:
 

 

[Shezian]

11 hours ago, Ron Put said:

Why would anyone who is healthy and actually cares about health jump on this bandwagon?

See the video linked in the post below, for just a few of the reasons why one should stay away from this:

Thanks keen to watch.

11 hours ago, Ron Put said:

 

 

[Alex K Chen]

This shit isn't even relevant to those taking semaglutide for moderate CR. CR drives people *crazy*, semaglutide is a way to do CR without the emotional instability it induces. I myself struggle with emotional stability (aging, if it finally happens before I'm "ready", will only worsen it), and I don't want another factor to destabilize me.

Semaglutide **most of all** prevents calorie binges that make me go way over 2000 calories on any given day. It doesn't really reduce my weight that much which is a desired effect. I don't want to be controlled by hunger, I want to have control over my hunger, and semaglutide is perfect.

Doing appropriate CR is not a willpower purity test - anything that increases the number of people reducing their calorie intake below excess amounts is a **good thing**. Tragically, people both on the CR side tend to be purists, and people who are on the anti-CR side are also purists of a different sort.

Edited February 5 by InquilineKea

[Ron Put]

On 2/5/2024 at 11:42 AM, InquilineKea said:

This shit isn't even relevant to those taking semaglutide for moderate CR

Surely it is. At least if the goal of CR is health, as opposed to temporary weight loss.

There are many reports of significant side effects, including of possibly permanent stomach paralysis. Long-term effects are unknown, but unlikely to be beneficial to healthy, non-obese people.

[Alex K Chen]

Quote

" There are many reports of significant side effects, including of possibly permanent stomach paralysis. Long-term effects are unknown, but unlikely to be beneficial to healthy, non-obese people. "

"side effects" are only in a very small fraction of people who take it LIKE ANY medication, and it has been tested on millions of people. You're just regurgitating all the tired [0] luddite/bioconservative arguments who cite extremely low-incidence side effects (<<1% of the population), nevermind that HUGE benefits from reduced calorie consumption that apply to a very large fraction of people who take it.

The easiest way to test for side effects is to take it, and discontinue if they exist. Most side effects are discomfort-related. The side effects from *not* taking it [excess calorie consumption, binge-eating] are far far greater

Sheesh, crsociety.org has lots of useful information, but it has such low-status and very few people read it.

Semaglutide makes life way simpler because you need less food. this is unlike the massive list of other drugs/supplements one takes.

The only issue is that it reduces appetite for raw vegetables way more than it does for cooked or higher-calorie foods (soups are still easy)

[it's still possible to eat half a gallon of nuts in a day, or binge on 2 catalina crunch cereals in a day => that then becomes the only meal of the day]

[0] not even 0.1% wired

Edited February 13 by InquilineKea

[Alex K Chen]

https://twitter.com/StevenAustad/status/1735550704129909130?t=DOXHDYgLSViPPWdp19EaNA&s=19

[Alex K Chen]

Quote

 

Semaglutide

I naturally have quite a strong appetite, and throughout my life, I have wasted a lot of energy and brainpower on food. The addition of a low dose of semaglutide, which modifies the homeostatic and hedonic aspects of feeding, has been a huge hack for my productivity, looks, and well-being.

The major downside is that semaglutide makes it hard to meet my caloric requirements if I do not count calories. I do not use semaglutide to lose weight (in fact, I actively try not to lose weight) but rather to decouple appetite from caloric intake. Thus, semaglutide helps me to be in charge of my drives and not the other way around, which I think is a very human thing to do.

Other than its cost, the need to count calories, and some loss of pleasure from eating, for me, there were no side effects as of yet (at least for the two years I have been using it). My resting heart rate is unchanged and I even built about 3-4 kg of lean muscle on it. I currently only use a very low dose (1 click per day, which is about 0.1mg per week – so a single pen lasts me about 40 weeks).

I discuss my experience with semaglutide in more detail here

 

 

[Alex K Chen]

https://www.rosiecampbell.xyz/p/semaglutide

https://www.rapamycin.news/t/intermittent-oral-rybelsus-semaglutide-use-in-healthy-individuals/642/256

https://www.rapamycin.news/t/will-the-glp-1-drugs-promote-longevity-and-healthspan/13884/7

Edited May 14 by Alex K Chen

[IgorF]

while listening to a (journalist written, not scientific but seems ok) fresh book on glp1 drugs (https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Pill-Extraordinary-Disturbing-Weight-Loss/dp/0593728637) I was surprised to discover sarcopenia risks on these drugs that are despite of different mechanism comparing to previous generations of drugs causes so similar muscle loss. Author mentions that in his 40ies he pairs weight-control drug usage with excercising but those who aren't doing the same / or ineffective for any reason should take it into account since this effect is undesirable (if it is not a kind of "eat more protein" kind of thing like e.g. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ozempic-muscle-mass-loss)