Alternate Day (Intermittent) Fasting

[Guigcam]

Hi all,

 

I'm new here. Just wanted to start a discussion on how to best implement intermittent fasting as a way of CR. I currently try to do one or two days of water only fast per week (some times in a row). Also I try to have a nutrient rich diet, avoiding empty carbs like bread, pasta, potato and white rice and abusing of nuts and olive oil. Supplementing only with basic multivitamin and Omega 3 daily (when not fasting).

 

How about you, what are you doing?

 

Greetings,

 

Guilherme

São Paulo, Brazil

[Hayley]

Hi. I'm also doing a form of IF - I eat one healthy meal every 48 hours. During my fasting hours I only drink water, or plain tea or rarely plain coffee. I also take supplements like you do.

[mory]

I'm new here too, been intermittent fasting for three years--- Sunday night up to a Tuesday night feeding period of 4 hours, 4 hour eating periond on wednesday evening, and fasting again up to Friday evening and eating,~ (hopfully)~ healthy through the weekend. I have felt a sense of energy and health increasing over the last fews years, (not much weight loss though-- surprisingly) I'm 57, 5'4", about 190-- jog 3-4 miles per week.-- look 15 years younger than I am, feel great. I've read Brad Pilon's Eat Stop Eat, he suggests this form of CR has more benefits than just CR by itself-- any thoughts?

[prettyinpink]

Kudos to you guys! I've always wanted to try intermittent fasting but I always end up still eating as I feel extremely hungry. :(

[Michael R]

All:

 

It's important to note that, despite the widespread belief to the contrary, there is no specific effect of alternate-day fasting (ADF)/every-other day feeding (EOD) on long-term health or aging: the limited effect on lifespan boils down entirely to the small Caloric difference (which, of course, is associated with a parallel loss of weight). Feeding the same number of Calories once, twice, or several times/day, or on alternate days, at the same Calorie intake yields the same retardation of the aging process, and therefore lifespan benefit. See, on these issues:

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/1145-starting-fasting-every-other-day/page__p__29979#entry29979

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/27757-alternate-day-fasting-only-works-with-calorie-restriction/

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23010-alternate-day-fasting-resveratrol-and-cr/

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/27757-alternate-day-fasting-only-works-with-calorie-restriction/

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/45222-twice-weekly-fasting-does-not-protect-against-prostate-cancer/

... and the embedded links; see also:

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/42370-40-cr-in-mice-mimics-therapeutic-fasting-in-humans/page__view__findpost__p__431970

 

Moreover, most of the apparently beneficial metabolic changes in EOD mice (which, again, don't actually result in any functional or lifespan benefit in the end, except against acute neurological insults of questionable real-world relevance) don't translate to humans. On that:

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23093-the-latest-alzheimers-research/page__p__299810#entry299810

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/33095-alternate-day-fasting-flunks-in-humans-again/

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/33095-alternate-day-fasting-flunks-in-humans-again/

[Guest Iron scott]

All:

 

It's important to note that, despite the widespread belief to the contrary, there is no specific effect of alternate-day fasting (ADF)/every-other day feeding (EOD) on long-term health or aging: the limited effect on lifespan boils down entirely to the small Caloric difference (which, of course, is associated with a parallel loss of weight). Feeding the same number of Calories once, twice, or several times/day, or on alternate days, at the same Calorie intake yields the same retardation of the aging process, and therefore lifespan benefit. See, on these issues:

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/1145-starting-fasting-every-other-day/page__p__29979#entry29979

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/27757-alternate-day-fasting-only-works-with-calorie-restriction/

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23010-alternate-day-fasting-resveratrol-and-cr/

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/27757-alternate-day-fasting-only-works-with-calorie-restriction/

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/45222-twice-weekly-fasting-does-not-protect-against-prostate-cancer/

... and the embedded links; see also:

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/42370-40-cr-in-mice-mimics-therapeutic-fasting-in-humans/page__view__findpost__p__431970

 

Moreover, most of the apparently beneficial metabolic changes in EOD mice (which, again, don't actually result in any functional or lifespan benefit in the end, except against acute neurological insults of questionable real-world relevance) don't translate to humans. On that:

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23093-the-latest-alzheimers-research/page__p__299810#entry299810

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/33095-alternate-day-fasting-flunks-in-humans-again/

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/33095-alternate-day-fasting-flunks-in-humans-again/

 

 

Hi Michael,

 

Could you please explain why intermittent fasting does not result in the same lifespan increases of CR. Surely as long as you only eat normally after the fast then you are achieving the same goal, I.e Calorie restriction, less calorie intake?

 

Does it not just boil down to following a cr influenced diet when off fasting?

 

Sorry for my ignorance I am totally new to this topic and thought intermittent fasting would be easier for me as I sometimes have heavy training days, I.e 6hr intensive bike rides at which point I have no options but to eat eat eat :)

 

Thanks

 

Scott

[logan]

Hi Michael,

 

Could you please explain why intermittent fasting does not result in the same lifespan increases of CR. Surely as long as you only eat normally after the fast then you are achieving the same goal, I.e Calorie restriction, less calorie intake?

Does it not just boil down to following a cr influenced diet when off fasting?

For sure,

I also find it's great both in terms that there is a laid back day where can eat more or lesst as you please,

and a day for minimizing calories, increasing sirtuins, optimizing nutriiton, clearing digestion.

It also reduces overeating on eating days, as being a little hungry feels much better than bloating.

 

Sorry for my ignorance I am totally new to this topic and thought intermittent fasting would be easier for me as I sometimes have heavy training days, I.e 6hr intensive bike rides at which point I have no options but to eat eat eat :)

oh ya, then simply add the biking calories to your fasting baseline.

for instance each hour of biking for me is usually around 500-600 calories,

so if I bike two hours, then I eat 1000 -1200 calories extra on the fasting day.

I used this online calculator to figure out my calorie used, it has many sports activies www.healthstatus.com/calculate/cbc

if you weigh like me, then after 6 hours of biking, eat around 3000-3600 calories extra.

Then your net caloric intake is still the same as it would be on your regular fast.

I do alternate day fasting, and usually have more energy and time when fasting,

so I often actually do more physical activity on a fasting day than eating day.

 

In order to maintain the sirtuin benefits of fasting day,

it would be best to avoid sugary foods or things with short carbohydrate chains.

Though if you're doing physical excersize you'd probably eating most protein and fats anyways.

[Guest Chris]

I am considering starting a cr diet, but I have for a time practised fasting on wednesdays and fridays as the first christians did to recieve communion. I am afraid that these days with fasting will make me open to deficiencies. Do I have to compensate by eating more the other days. And how many calories is recommended for a 25 year old male, 174 cm tall?

[Guest Peter P]

I have been on two day intermittent fasting for two and a half months and have lost 10KG. Weight loss has been greater initally, slowing to 250g per week at present. I usually eat around 150-200 calories, mainly fruit on my fasting days. The non-fasting days I eat my normal reasonably healthy diet. I have little or no hunger pangs. I feel good. I am seeing my GP in February to check up on improvements to my cardio status.

[paulgfoster]

I originally went on a cr diet of 1900 calories for a year and maintained optimal nutrition as best as I could using chrono meter.

As expected wonderful things happened my weight and bmi reduced dramatically and my bloods returned to normal or better than so called normal. my metabolic syndrome was reversed.

Then I went on a month long cruise and knew with all the wonderful food I wouldn't be wanting to weigh it, so I increased my exercise on board, walked up all the stairs and never used the lifts and walked miles around the decks.

The results were on my return that I had no weight gain and I thought I could just return to cr but I couldn't.

The exercise caused a torn meniscus in my knee and I got a bit down about that as I couldn't walk far without pain.

Thus I have been trying ever since to return to cr and cant last a day , its although my will power has gone.

I regained 11kgs in weight.

Then I watched the Michael Mosley Alternate day fasting method of Cr and gave it a go.

I eat 600 calories one day and unlimited the next.

I have the will power to last the fasting day as I know the next day I can eat what I like.

It is working well for me, and on my unlimited day I don't feel like eating too much.

My only concern is the optimal nutrition on the fasting day.......I eat a reasonable healthy diet anyway, haven't eaten meat in 40 years, small fish and dairy, lots salad and vegies some nuts olive oil.

On my fasting day I eat one meal of low fat yoghurt, blueberries, pumpkin or sunflower seeds and apple and a second meal of a small amount of salmon and salad or veggies, totalling 600 calories. I spend time in the garden with few clothes on so get my sun exposure. I do take a small dose of zinc, and a multi b purely because I read its good for cognitive function and my mother has recently developed alzheimers.I have a brazil nut for my selenium.I am on no medications and aged 58.(though for years was on at least two tablets for b/p.......

After a few months on Adf I will get my bloods done and compare them with my Cr results. Although I didn't get extensive tests done I think the comparison will be interesting.

I think I will stick with Adf as it seems to work for me. Also I am moving towards a self sufficient lifestyle growing my own food for financial and health reasons, so Adf appears more suited to this ................

When I reach my goal weight bmi I may reduce the fasting to Michael Moselys suggested 5 and 2 method but that is way down the track. Paul

[keithsct]

I originally went on a cr diet of 1900 calories for a year and maintained optimal nutrition as best as I could using chrono meter.

As expected wonderful things happened my weight and bmi reduced dramatically and my bloods returned to normal or better than so called normal. my metabolic syndrome was reversed.

Then I went on a month long cruise and knew with all the wonderful food I wouldn't be wanting to weigh it, so I increased my exercise on board, walked up all the stairs and never used the lifts and walked miles around the decks.

The results were on my return that I had no weight gain and I thought I could just return to cr but I couldn't.

The exercise caused a torn meniscus in my knee and I got a bit down about that as I couldn't walk far without pain.

Thus I have been trying ever since to return to cr and cant last a day , its although my will power has gone.

I regained 11kgs in weight.

...snip...

Hi Paul,

 

I know what you mean. Last fall I broke some bones and decided not to continue my CR until they had healed. When I tried to go back from eating the same healthy foods (just larger quantities) to my old CR routine, my body seemed to have no willpower left. So I went back to the advice from Dr. Walford where he suggests that we implement CR slowly and gradually over time. Shocking the body is something we want to avoid. I just cut only 50 kcals at a time out of my diet instead of the 300 or 400 extra calories all at once. After about 2 months, my will power came back just the same as before and I gradually dropped the extra 5 kgs that I added.

 

Cheers,

Keith

 

 

 

[Guest Arcady Economo]

Intermittent fasting (IF) is not the best method of life extension. Much more powerful is "Anti-Aging Cyclic Nutrition" (AACN) method:

 

Although regular caloric restriction has been proved to be an effective life-extending technique, we in fact strongly recommend you to choose the alternative approach (periodic fasting). Below we set out some reasons for this. If you are serious about achieving optimum results by means of caloric restriction, there are several important reasons to choose the PERIODIC FASTING method, rather than simply a constant calorie-level each day.

 

1. Fasting can not only extend the lifespan and have beneficial preventive action, it can also be an effective curative and treatment method. While fasting, the whole organism has an opportunity to cure itself, due to an intensification of natural repair processes. Caloric restriction has not been proven to have such powerful curative benefits.

2. Pleasure of eating. To take an example, if you are aiming for an 1800 kcal daily average and fasting 100 days per year, then on the other days you do not need to restrict yourself to 1800 kcal a day; you can eat a "normal" 2500 kcal ration of daily meals. (You should of course in any case take care to eat healthy, high-quality food).

3. Psychological benefits. After the second day of fasting you normally do not feel hunger; whereas, while on a calorie-restricted diet, it is not uncommon to feel hunger every day. With experience, it is much easier to get used to fasting.

4. Religious aspects. In almost every religion there are prescribed fasting-days. If you are a believer you can fast in accordance with the religious calendar, and experience the spiritual benefits as well as the physical ones.

5. Time saving. While on an ordinary caloric-restriction regime you have to spend time eating meals 365 days per year. But with the alternative method you save that time on fast-days. If fasting 100 days per year, you only spend time eating on the remaining 265 days.

 

To help in implementing your new caloric-restriction lifestyle, below we present some simple practical calculations which we hope will make these ideas more specific. We recommend "plan A" as a good starting-point; but you can choose the one which appears most suitable, and then perhaps modify it in the light of experience.

 

"Plan A": 1500 kcal/day PLAN WITH MODERATE FASTING (program for one year). This program is recommended both for disease prevention and disease treatment. The program comprises 4 cycles per year (See Fig below). The length of one cycle is 13 weeks, comprising: 1 "fasting week", 1 "recovery week" and 11 "ordinary weeks"). Total no. of fasting days – 72 per year.

 

Arithmetic: "Fasting week" comprises 7 days of 0 kcal; total 0 kcal. "Recovery week" comprises 7 days of gradually-increasing caloric intake (see below); total 5200 kcal. "Ordinary week" comprises 6 full-feeding days (2000 kcal/day) plus 1 fasting day (0 kcal). Total 12000 kcal per week in these weeks. So total caloric consumption in one 13-week cycle is 137,200 kcal [= 0 + 5200 + (12000 x 11)], and total intake in 1 year is 548,800 kcal [137,200 x 4 cycles]. The average caloric intake over the year is [548,800 / 365] = 1504 kcal/day (approximately 1500 kcal). Total no. of fasting days: 72 per year [(7 + 11) x 4 cycles].

 

We suggest choosing this program as a good starting-point. It comprises FOUR FASTING PERIODS PER YEAR (7 + 7 + 7 + 7 days) and this is probably easiest to follow as these form a regular pattern. The fasting periods are evenly distributed within the year.

 

RECOVERY WEEK (for 1500 kcal/day plan). After the 7 day total fast the recovery period ("recovery week") will also be 7 days. On the first day after the end of the fast (the 8th day after the start of the fast) you should take 200 kcal; on the 2nd day 300 kcal; on the 3rd day 400; on the 4th, 600; on the 5th, 900; on the 6th, 1200; and on the 7th day 1600 kcal. So during these 7 "recovery days" your total intake will be 5200 kcal.

 

Look at this picture please: http://www.anti-aging-guide.com/30fasting-graf01.php

 

Source: www.anti-aging-plan.com

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

I know what you mean. Last fall I broke some bones and decided not to continue my CR until they had healed. When I tried to go back from eating the same healthy foods (just larger quantities) to my old CR routine, my body seemed to have no willpower left. So I went back to the advice from Dr. Walford where he suggests that we implement CR slowly and gradually over time. Shocking the body is something we want to avoid. I just cut only 50 kcals at a time out of my diet instead of the 300 or 400 extra calories all at once. After about 2 months, my will power came back just the same as before and I gradually dropped the extra 5 kgs that I added.

 

Cheers,

Keith

[paulgfoster]

for me personally I would and could not follow the above mentioned plan.( "Anti-Aging Cyclic Nutrition)

After a month of Adf I found that I was eating too much on my ad lib day and for it to be effective I would need to count calories on that day, which rather defeated the purpose of a more relaxed approach. I tend to have an insatiable appetite with very little control if I am not able to follow a guideline.

Also I found on ad lib days I felt mildly nauseated with twinges of discomfort in the liver region. Perhaps Keith was right with the shocking the body thought, as I was swinging rapidly between gorging and fasting.

So today I went back on my old cr regime of 1900 clories and had a really good day and there seemed to be lots of food and little hunger , in fact I finished the day on 1800 calories.

So guess it may be the way to go and stay, especially as it worked so well for me before. Paul

[Guest sarahk]

I'm new here too, been intermittent fasting for three years--- Sunday night up to a Tuesday night feeding period of 4 hours, 4 hour eating periond on wednesday evening, and fasting again up to Friday evening and eating,~ (hopfully)~ healthy through the weekend. I have felt a sense of energy and health increasing over the last fews years, (not much weight loss though-- surprisingly) I'm 57, 5'4", about 190-- jog 3-4 miles per week.-- look 15 years younger than I am, feel great. I've read Brad Pilon's Eat Stop Eat, he suggests this form of CR has more benefits than just CR by itself-- any thoughts?

 

Doesn't look like the IF I have heard about, rather your own concoction, but it seems everyone has their own take on this fast... so often seeming extreme to me. I seem too hungry and addicted to food to go that long without, I get light headed and my eyes start to go,,,

[Michael R]

Could you please explain why intermittent fasting does not result in the same lifespan increases of CR. Surely as long as you only eat normally after the fast then you are achieving the same goal, I.e Calorie restriction, less calorie intake? Does it not just boil down to following a cr influenced diet when off fasting?

Er, I think you're saying exactly what I said: "the limited effect on lifespan boils down entirely to the small Caloric difference (which, of course, is associated with a parallel loss of weight." The question is whether and to what degree one compensates for the missing Calories on the 'feast' day. If you really do eat normally, you'll be on 50% CR -- not likely. Most mice only wind up being 15% net CR, which means they're eating more than half again as much food on their fed days than they do when just fed normally.

 

That said, as I noted, the human trials seem to suggest that in terms of disease risk factors, alternate-day fasting doesn't do as good a job as 'consistent' CR. This may relate to our slower metabolic rates, or the fact that mice become ketogenic much more quickly than humans do during a fast, or other factors unknown.

 

I'm new here too, been intermittent fasting for three years--- Sunday night up to a Tuesday night feeding period of 4 hours, 4 hour eating periond on wednesday evening, and fasting again up to Friday evening and eating,~ (hopfully)~ healthy through the weekend. I have felt a sense of energy and health increasing over the last fews years, (not much weight loss though-- surprisingly) I'm 57, 5'4", about 190-- jog 3-4 miles per week.-- look 15 years younger than I am, feel great.

Doesn't look like the IF I have heard about, rather your own concoction, but it seems everyone has their own take on this fast... so often seeming extreme to me. I seem too hungry and addicted to food to go that long without, I get light headed and my eyes start to go,,,

Mory's protocol is exactly what happens with the CR Rodents.

 

Mory, if you're not losing much weight (though it depends what that means... You really don't want to lose more than a pound or two a week), you probably are overcompensating on your 'feast' days and should cut back a bit.

 

For sure,

I also find it's great both in terms that there is a laid back day where can eat more or lesst as you please,

and a day for minimizing calories, increasing sirtuins, optimizing nutriiton, clearing digestion.

It also reduces overeating on eating days, as being a little hungry feels much better than bloating.

I take it you're not on an actual alternate-day fasting regimen, though perhaps you're doing one of the hybrid, modified-fast programs. In any case, you should be optimizing nutrition any time you eat.

 

If you eat more or less as you please on your 'feast' days, you're likely to overcompensate and wind up at 0% net CR, or close to it.

 

Despite years of hype, the evidence that sirtuins play any significant role in the extension of life by CR is still far from convincing. Humans on 'regular' CR do, in any case, exhibit increased sirtuin activity.