Guest Drew Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 How does one approach Cr if you have a very fast metabolism? I would say that I have been practicing optimal nutrition for about 1.5 years now. Most plant based, very little animal products, very little refined or surgery foods. About 90% of my calories come from food as it exists in its natural form. Lots of good foods like berries, leafy greens, cruciferous veggies, etc. One vice might be coffee, which maybe I need to give up for more herbal teas. Anyway, my question is this: I'm 5"11, 147 pds which gives me a solid bmi. Not quite as low as many of you here though. Anyway, I seem blessed (our maybe cursed), in that I can eat 4000 calories per day, day after day, month after month, literally year after year, and my weight does not go up. I should also add that I was born with some congenital heart problems, so to me maintaining optimal health is very important. I wonder about plaque accumulation, I wonder about cellular garbage left behind as biproducts of metabolism, I wonder about Cr and if its possible for people wit very fast metabolisms. I'm really only able to gain weight if I get into the 5000-60000 calorie range daily and stay there for months on end. Maybe it doesn't matter because I was born with some heart problems, but then again many members of my family are in there mid90s despite living a mega subpar lifestyle. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithsct Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 How does one approach Cr if you have a very fast metabolism? I would say that I have been practicing optimal nutrition for about 1.5 years now. Most plant based, very little animal products, very little refined or surgery foods. About 90% of my calories come from food as it exists in its natural form. Lots of good foods like berries, leafy greens, cruciferous veggies, etc. One vice might be coffee, which maybe I need to give up for more herbal teas. Anyway, my question is this: I'm 5"11, 147 pds which gives me a solid bmi. Not quite as low as many of you here though. Anyway, I seem blessed (our maybe cursed), in that I can eat 4000 calories per day, day after day, month after month, literally year after year, and my weight does not go up. I should also add that I was born with some congenital heart problems, so to me maintaining optimal health is very important. I wonder about plaque accumulation, I wonder about cellular garbage left behind as biproducts of metabolism, I wonder about Cr and if its possible for people wit very fast metabolisms. I'm really only able to gain weight if I get into the 5000-60000 calorie range daily and stay there for months on end. Maybe it doesn't matter because I was born with some heart problems, but then again many members of my family are in there mid90s despite living a mega subpar lifestyle. Thoughts? Hi Drew, I wonder your digestive system is working properly and absorbing all the energy from the food? If the calories just go in and come right out again, then that could be an answer to this question. In that case you may not be generating the byproducts of metabolism. Another possibility might be an overactive thyroid gland. In this case you might find that you have an elevated body temperature and would be shedding the excess energy as body heat. Are you getting too much iodine in your diet? It might be a good idea to see if you need address these issues. One thing you haven't mentioned is exercise. What do you do to spend the energy? If you're running a full marathon each day, then maybe that's your answer right there! Your diet looks ok at first glance, but with CR it's always about the balance of the foods. I notice that you haven't talked about fats at all in the foods you list. Fat consumption is a critical part of a balanced diet and can affect cardiovascular health. Have you balanced your Omega 3 and 6 fatty acid intake from your diet? Nuts and oils? Cheers, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drew Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Hmmm. Good points. I hope my digestive track is working well! I also hope my thyroid isn't acting funky. Though maybe something is up. My body temp actually seems to be kind of low from what I understand. I think it typically measures 35.8-36.0ish (measured in the ear. I am active (also 27), but not super active anymore. For about 6 months I ran 40 miles per week, but after reading lots about centenarians and longevity, it seemed like it was a bad idea. My daily activity is usually: 30-60 minute brisk walk, with either 15 minutes of yoga, weights, or something vigorous like running. As for EFA's I make sure I have flax/chia seeds everyday. Maybe some hemp seeds too. Sometimes i've had 5-10 tbsp per day. Nuts come and go. Sometimes I eat a few cups per day (yes a few cups per day) for a few days in a row, then I don't eat any for a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PumaBearclan Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hello Drew, your diet sounds very much like a diet that I tried several years ago. I also was cold all the time, was unable to build muscle, eventually became depressed, and my hair started falling out :( My response to your post is that you are not actually getting optimal nutrition from your diet. My recommendation is to incorporate animal foods into your diet. I personally have not found that a primarily plant food diet is adequate. As keithsct points out, you do not seems to be getting adequate fat, and if you are eating very little animal food, you are probably not getting enough protein - and men need quite a bit for good health. (I do not personally believe that plant proteins are substitutes for animal proteins). The fats you describe from seeds and nuts are almost entirely polyunsaturated. The human body needs mostly monounsaturated fats, and (I believe) significant intake of saturated fats (bone marrow and ghee are my favorites). The Weston Price Society has good free information about proper fat consumption for health on their website. The movie FatHead and book Good Calories Bad Calories are useful source of info about carb and fat consumption and how the Department of Agriculture came to adopt the Keys lipid hypothesis. I think that if you were eating a balanced diet your metabolism would would be normalized - neither fast nor slow. You are correct that CRON is good for keeping plaque low and the heart healthy. I have an excellent cholesterol profile. I've been paleoCRON for over 5 years. It's improved my health in every way. My dietary goal is get equal calories from animal fat and animal protein and less than 100 calories/day from carbohydrates, totaling a set-point of daily calories around 1500 min - 1700 max calories per day. Your daily caloric requirement will be higher because of your gender, your age and activity level will also affect your requirement. Are you using a calculator that identifies your macronutrient intake, lipid profile, and daily calories? A calculator will also estimate you daily caloric requirement with a formula. Mine is 2000 calories a day. Because I eat very low carb and am adapted to calorie restriction, I eat 300-500 calories a day less than the recommendation while maintaining optimal nutrition. (I eat very few fruits and only a few vegetables each day - they are "empty" calories that just bulk the diet - and colon - in my opinion.) Best wishes for a healthy heart! ~Puma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drew Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Building muscle hasn't really been a problem. When I was running lots (up to last month), I nailed a 44 min 10km, while still being able to do 12 pullups, sets of 40+ pushups, etc. I never know what to think about animal products. I think maybe some fish that makes up say 3-5% of my total calories would be okay, maybe even beneficial, but beyond that I am just not sure. I come from a plant-based vegan background. You say the body needs monosat fat, but these are non-essential and the body can manufacture them... so why load up on them in the diet? I've used cronometer before and I typically hit 100% of every nutrient most days (often 500%+ on many markers), except b12 which I supplement with. I'm not going to lie, the diet you are describing looks like Atkins-ish, or West-beach-ish... scares the crap out of me and something that I think will actually harm the body. I get that calorie restriction is important, maybe the most important factor, but the majority of centenarians i've read about eat very little meat and the amount you are consuming seems highly dangerous. I respect your choice, but I highly doubt it's for me. On another note. I'm on day 4 of switching from coffee to herbal tea and feeling wonderful!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PumaBearclan Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hello Drew, a low-carb paleo diet is not a fad, it's not "Atkins" or "West Beach." 100 grams of protein a day is not a high-protein diet. Paleo diets are based on research on primitive cultures who lived "close to the land" without processed Western diets, and without 365-day trucked produce available to them. There is a lot of research about and many practitioners of diets like these, in modern times and also traditionally, although a plant-based diet promoted by ascetic Eastern traditions took hold of the US in the 1960s-today in the Western health movement, and US government, which subsidizes grain and plant farming, advocates it. The body can produce monounsaturated fat - from saturated fat, which must be in the diet. There is material available to you online and in books regarding paleo and fat-based diets if you care to investigate. ~Puma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hmm. Well I guess if it's working for you and your biomarkers for longevity are good, more power to you! Just curious, what would a sample day look like for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drew Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 BTW, i've tracked a couple of days for myself. Things come and go with my nutrition, but here is what they looked like. With the exception of the one day with high calories from a bing-ish meal, I was at about 2000 per day. This is a far cry from the 4000ish I can regularly eat. Though I feel pretty good and energetic. Weight is staying consistent in the 147-150 range. Feel free to pick it apart!!!! Day 1 - Monday Oct. 22, 2012 1) Sweet potato, broccoli, carrots, cauliflower, orange, banana, flax seed, herbal tea x 2 2) Sweet potato, broccoli, carrots, cauliflower, strawberries, blueberries, herbal tea x 2 3) Black beans, tomatoes, onions, mushrooms, celery, lentils, olive oil 4) Oats, strawberries -25 min brisk walk Day 2 - Tuesday Oct. 23, 2012 1) Oats, banana, apple, orange, tofu, herbal tea x 2 2 )Black beans, tomatoes, onions, mushrooms, celery, lentils, olive oil, herbal tea x 2 3) Black beans, tomatoes, onions, mushrooms, celery, lentils, olive oil, herbal tea 4) Oats, banana, orange -25min brisk walk, 30 min brisk walk Day 3 - Wednesday Oct. 24, 2012 1) Oats, banana, apple, orange, tofu, herbal tea x 2 2) Brown rice, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, tomato sauce, banana 3) Brown rice, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, tomato sauce, banana, herbal tea 4) Oats, 100g 70% cocoa dark chocolate, 4 pb sandwiches on whole wheat buns (processed pb), 1 cup sugary granola - weird binge... very calorie dense... -25 min brisk walk, 15 min running Day 4 - Thursday Oct. 25, 2012 1) Oats, banana, tofu, romaine lettuce, herbal tea x 2 2) Brown rice, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, tomato sauce, banana 3) Oats, banana, tofu, romaine lettuce, herbal tea x 2 4) Oats, orange, tofu, decaf coffee -30 min brisk walk, 15 min running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithsct Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Hi Drew, I agree with your comments on diet. I also ran a 44 min 10Km this year and have similar performance on the other exercises you listed. The biggest difference is that you have more calories than I do. I'm 6' 2" and 155 lbs and stable with 1750 - 1800 calories. I have a ripped muscular look in my body with low body fat that I'm very happy with even though I've given up a lot of strength in some exercises such as bench press. I've seen pics of other CR followers that also have a similar look. If you're happy with the results of your CRON, then there's no real reason to change. It certainly sounds as though you're healthy too. I tried to do a high protein/fat and low carb diet and had bad results with it. My joints complained a lot. I know a lot more now about diet and nutrition, and would definitely do it differently if I tried it now. But I won't, because my heart disease risk is now extremely low and I like it that way. It is probably possible to implement a paleo version of CRON. It may even be healthy because the body will be able to process all the nutrients without generating inflammation. IMHO I think such a diet would be very restrictive. My current diet is a nearly vegan version of CRON and is successful for me, but also very restrictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pumabearclan Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hmm. Well I guess if it's working for you and your biomarkers for longevity are good, more power to you! Just curious, what would a sample day look like for you? My daily diets looks like this: 1 good quality beer breakfast: 3oz meat 3oz cheese several raw egg yolks half cup of fresh vegetables midday: handful of dried fruit handful of raw nuts dinner: 1/4 cup potatoes or rice 1 egg yolk 1 tablespoon ghee 6oz meat half cup fresh herb salad It's the same basic formula every day, around 1600 calories per day, about 100g fat, 100g protein, and 60-75g carbs each day. I eat all sorts of meat: beef, pork, chicken, fish, shellfish, lamb... I eat raw liver and raw cream in place of egg yolks and bone marrow in place of the ghee when available. I have pretty good access to grass-fed farm products where I live. I won't be posting here any more, I didn't realize that the CR Society promoted a plant-based diet. I just wanted to answer your question for anyone who is considering doing CRON with animal foods. I've been eating this way for over 5 years and am very healthy. I always feel full and not hungry. I'm active and maintain a healthy weight. Best regards to the CR Society for health and longevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithsct Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 My daily diets looks like this: 1 good quality beer breakfast: 3oz meat 3oz cheese several raw egg yolks half cup of fresh vegetables midday: handful of dried fruit handful of raw nuts dinner: 1/4 cup potatoes or rice 1 egg yolk 1 tablespoon ghee 6oz meat half cup fresh herb salad It's the same basic formula every day, around 1600 calories per day, about 100g fat, 100g protein, and 60-75g carbs each day. I eat all sorts of meat: beef, pork, chicken, fish, shellfish, lamb... I eat raw liver and raw cream in place of egg yolks and bone marrow in place of the ghee when available. I have pretty good access to grass-fed farm products where I live. I won't be posting here any more, I didn't realize that the CR Society promoted a plant-based diet. I just wanted to answer your question for anyone who is considering doing CRON with animal foods. I've been eating this way for over 5 years and am very healthy. I always feel full and not hungry. I'm active and maintain a healthy weight. Best regards to the CR Society for health and longevity. Hi Puma, I just wanted to say that I'm not the only member of the CR Society and my opinions don't represent everyone here. One of the things the CR Society has been recommending for the last few years is a reduced protein content of the diet and your diet seems to me to be a bit protein heavy at 100g. Studies have been done recently with CR Society members where those eating high protein diet were found to be missing some of the metabolic changes that were seen in the rest of the group and high methionine (an amino acid that is included in a high protein diet) was deemed to be the likely problem. If I were you, I'd be reducing at least 1/3 of your protein and compensating with increased healthy carbs, but if you're diet has been working for you with no problems, then you may want to stick with what you've been doing. Many people implement CRON with animal foods. It's my personal choice to implement CRON in a vegetarian way, but I don't want to seem militant about it or anything. This section of the CR Society is quite new and most of the members post messages in the old email list section Forum->email list archives. I've been one of the people who's trying to encourage use of the new forums and thus my messages are over represented currently. Hopefully this will slowly change with more involvement from others. So my intent wasn't to drive you away. Good health to you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PumaBearclan Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Hi keithsct, You didn't drive me away, I reviewed the CR Society's material more closely and realized that I was in the wrong place ;) Thanks for your recommendation on the protein intake. Since I posted my diet I've quit drinking alcohol and am eating those carbs in fruit - more vitamins & fiber. My protein has also dropped off to about 80g/day, I decided to cut back to save $ and I don't really miss the extra 20g. When I ate 50g protein or less I needed more carbs to feel well. So that correlates with your comment. I feel best keeping my carbs at <80g/day, so I need the protein. (I also work out and use weights.) This all may change as I get older. I wanted to add that the Homo Optimus ratio is measured in grams. I have Dr K's book, and he measures the ratio in grams. However, I wasn't able to maintain his recommendation. I found that it was too high in fat and too low in carbs for me to feel well. I eat more protein than he recommends and less fat. What is interesting is that the diet that I feel best with conforms to his ratio in terms of calories/percentages: 20% of my diet is protein, 60% fat, and 16% carbohydrate. Just wanted to be clear on that in case anyone wants to investigate the Homo Optimus diet as Dr K prescribes. Best regards to all at the CR Society ~Puma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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