Protein model by Don Layman

[mccoy]

I wonder if any of you guys has been listening to this episode of Peter Attia's drive. I've listened it twice and there are a few interesting concepts expounded there, when and how leucine triggers mTor in muscles, for how long, what's the best distribution of protein and with what quantities according to Layman's muscle-centric model.

The DIAAS score, the 3 governing EAAS (Leucine, Lysine, Methionine), the underestimation of nitrogen requirement by the nitrogen-balance studies (Randd's model adopted as the official RDA) and the ideal 1.6 g/kg/d quantity of protein which is twice the adopted RDA. The effect of plant-based protein and the low absorption degree of some of them, like whey protein. The invalidation of the metabolic window concept for people who have been training after 6 months. The need of more protein adequately distributed for non-young individuals and more.

I already knew Don Layman and especially the fact that his studies have been financed by the big protein corporation, but at 1:55 he explains why he had to fall back on this kind of financing.

In this episode, we discuss: 0:00:00 - Intro 0:00:08 - Don’s background: from growing up on a farm to studying nutritional biochemistry 0:04:39 - Don’s philosophy on nutrition, muscle, and metabolism 0:18:10 - The controversial relationship between saturated fat and atherosclerosis 0:26:30 - The basics of protein and amino acids 0:33:46 - Origin and limitations of the current recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for protein intake 0:43:44 - Protein sources: determining quality, absorption rates, and how to track intake 0:51:35 - Leucine, lysine, and methionine: three important essential amino acids 0:57:35 - The vital role of ruminant animals in the production of quality protein 1:04:55 - The differing needs and impacts of dietary protein for a 16-year old compared to a 65-year old 1:12:50 - Consequences of protein deficiency in childhood 1:19:50 - Muscle protein synthesis: ideal timing, small meals vs. big meals, and more 1:27:51 - Protein needs of children 1:33:07 - How important is timing protein intake around training? 1:37:27 - The role of leucine in fatty acid oxidation by muscle 1:41:07 - High protein diets for fat loss: Results from Don’s clinical trials 1:55:24 - Influence of industry funding on nutrition studies 2:01:26 - Don’s thoughts on plant-based and synthetic “meats” 2:10:05 - Problems with epidemiological studies of dietary protein

Edited October 29, 2022 by mccoy

[mccoy]

To those who have watched the video, it will result very clear that Layman's recommendations on quantity are pretty huge, from the standpoint of the 'classic' RDA of 0.8 g/kg/d.

Not only he says twice the RDA is required, but he also contends that a minimum amount of protein (about 35 grams) is needed in at least 2 meals to trigger muscle protein synthesis (and avoid sarcopenia).

He is precise enough to elucidate that young people do not need that high amount since hormones govern growth He also elucidates that in people who exercise there are other factors which may govern (I've posted about the MGF or mechano growth factor elsewhere).

At the end, that high amount of protein suggested would apparently be rigorously valid in Layman's model for older people who do not do resistance exercise.

I kept being puzzled though, because we know that quite a few people, me included, really do not need that high amount to trigger MPS or not to loose lean mass. Also, there are vegan bodybuilders who eat pretty low score DIAAS protein food and not too much at that , who exhibit notwithstandingly extraordinary musculature (Torre Washington is one example).

At this point I came across another video of him, an interview with Dr. Gabrielle LYon, where he says clearly that there are vegetarian and vegans, people who apparently are healthy with  less protein of low DIAAS score, hence do not exhibit lack of EAAs . A paradox according to his model.

His hypothesis is overly interesting:

In vegans and vegetarians who eat copious amounts of diversified fibers, what may occur is a phenomenon similar to what happens in ruminants, where the gut flora is able to upgrade the simple nitrogen present in the matrix to essential amino acids. This explanation is just extraordinary. Vegans morphing into ruminants!

This part is toward the end of the video

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by mccoy