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BrianMDelaney

Pea protein powder options?

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I've decided I need to up my protein intake ("Michael Rae is right even when 'he's wrong'") and want to use pea protein powder, but was puzzled by something.

 

Compare the protein and sugar per weight (scroll down) of Dr. Mercola's product --

 

http://www.iherb.com/Dr-Mercola-100-Pure-Pea-Protein-16-oz-454-g-Powder/40512

 

to two others available at iHerb.com:

 

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Pea-Protein-Unflavored-2-lbs-907-g/9858

 

http://www.iherb.com/Growing-Naturals-Yellow-Raw-Pea-Protein-Original-32-2-oz-912-g/50461

 

 

Mercola:

 

Serving Size: 2 Scoops (25 g)

Total Carbohydrate 17 g

Sugars 14 g

Protein 6 g

 

Now (similar to the third, Growing Naturals):

 

Serving Size: 1 Level Scoop (33 g)

Total Carbohydrate 1 g

Protein 24 g

 

I wrote to Dr. Mercola's site about this, and they responded:

 

We appreciate your inquiry at Mercola.com. Dr. Mercola only uses 100% peas in the pea protein. It is also cold processed, which help turn the peas into a powder form without removing the natural elements peas provide. The amount of sugar (14g) is a part of the total carbohydrates (17g). The sugar in the pea protein comes naturally from the peas and is not added for flavor purposes. We hope this information helps.

 

If this is part of what explains the difference, it's only because the other part of the explanation is that Now and Growing Naturals use some other process that removes virtually all of the carbs. Does anyone know what sort of process it is?

 

I'd rather have the much lower-Cal protein, but 1) they're not organic (not a huge deal, but still), and they might use a kind of chemical extraction process that I'd (possibly, depending) want to avoid. (I've written to them, but no reply yet.)

 

I know several CR'ers use Now, and I assume they think it's safe of course.

 

Thanks for any possible enlightenment.

Brian

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I've used True Nutrition's pea ("gemma") and rice proteins, and their Vegan Optimizer blend (45% pea, 45% rice, 10% hemp) for years and am quite satisfied.

 

http://www.truenutrition.com/p-1115-gemma-pea-protein-isolate-non-gmo-1lb.aspx

 

I have no idea what the process of pea protein extraction is. I'd imagine its similar to other proteins. The guys at True Nutrition are great about answering these questions, so an email to them might help a lot.

Edited by James Cain

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James, thanks! True Nutrition looks like an excellent choice.

 

http://www.truenutrition.com/p-1115-gemma-pea-protein-isolate-non-gmo-1lb.aspx

 

Like Dr. Mercola's, it says "cold-processed", yet it has the high relative content of protein (which I want) like the others. I don't get it. These higher protein products must simply go through a longer (cold) process. Not sure why Mercola thinks people in the market for protein powder would want all those carbs.

 

Brian

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First, I would strongly urge you not to buy anything from Mercola IAC: he is a very bad actor, leading untold legions of dodoheads to avoid good medical care, not vaccinate their children, take unproven dietary supplements, etc. See eg. here (skip down to "Mercola has been well known to promote all manner" etc).

 

I don't have a firm explanation for this, but I have a GUESS. On Mercola's website, it describes the production of his pea powder thus (all emphasis mine):

 

A very mild process extracts the soluble pea protein from the yellow peas to produce Nutralys. Without the use of chemical solvents, the manufacturer maintains functional properties and delivers nutritional value to you...

 

A dry process produces pea flour...

 

The pea flour is then hydrated...

 

Starch and fiber separation take place next...

 

Coagulation of the pea protein follows...

 

And finally, the pea protein is purified and dried in a multi-stage dryer…

 

Uses environment friendly harvesting and production processes. Uses a mild, proprietary process without chemical solvents to deliver the Nutralys pea protein nutritional value to you

 

I think they're at least implying that most pea protein uses some harsher method of separating off the carb from the protein. I am guessing that the processes they use partially break the starch down into sugar, but make it difficult to separate it out (perhaps because of coagulation preceding purification -- otherwise, you'd think a series of water washes would be sufficient to wash away sugars).

 

Another, shakier observation: I can find no 'official' disclosure of the sodium content of Mercola's product. It's not on the op cit website nor the product label. This vendor site also lacks it, but this "crowdsourced" Nutrition Facts has it at zero. There's a good chance that the latter is just because the person saw no entry for sodium on the label and it defaults to zero, and that Mercola just doesn't disclose it because they haven't bothered to test it or in order to avoid consumers freaking out about the Na content: Mercola is a sodium denialist, but he's still willing to use concerns about sodium to hawk products even while arguing against its importance.

 

Still, I'm curious about this. All other pea proteins I've seen have very high sodium levels (eg, NOW has 330 mg/33g scoop with 28 g protein, and IIRC it used to have 400). This trainer/supplement hawker blog says "Pea protein is naturally high in sodium, so that's why there are 400 mg per serving," but this is evidently nonsense: raw peas contain 5 mg Na and 5.42 g of protein per 100 g peas, which would suggest that for 28 g of protein you would get ≈26 mg Na.

 

Why am I telling you this? I once asked NOW to explain why there was so bloody much sodium in their product, and was told that it was a result of salt being used their extraction process. As with Mercola's product's sugar, I don't understand why this can't readily be washed out after the fact, but if indeed there is negligible sodium in his product, this may be another sign of an alternative extraction that somehow leaves sugar behind instead.

 

IAC, I would go with someone else, to avoid the empty carbs and enriching Mercola's possibly blood-soaked coffers.

 

-Michael

 

Sodium denialism: this is rather inflammatory language, I realize: I was using it as shorthand. I fully admit that case for high sodium content being bad for anyone but the "salt-sensitive" is really scientifically uncertain, and wish that public health advocates would stop pretending that it's a complete slam-dunk; proving the harm of sodium intake at levels typical of current American and global consumption is just hard, in large part because it's damned near impossible to get people to lower their sodium intake low enough and long enough to actually show whether it saves lives or not. However, in my view the evidence is more than strong enough that the responsible thing to do is to be honest about the scientific uncertainty, but to advise people to consume less sodium — and more importantly, to press fast food joints and food processors to lower their products' clearly excessive sodium contents to reasonable levels — unless and until a more definitive resolution is reached. To just dismiss it, or claim the opposite (that salt (or Himalayan magic salt) is GOOD for you) is irresponsible and may indeed leave bodies behind.

Edited by Michael R

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Michael,

 

Thanks for the detailed reply. I try to vote with my wallet, so the info about the Na dis-info spread by Mercola is relevant to me.

 

Your speculation/guesses about the process Mercola uses make sense to me. I was initially drawn to the product because it was the only one available at iHerb that was organic, but I think that should be a minor criterion here.

 

IAC, I would go with someone else, to avoid the empty carbs and enriching Mercola's possibly blood-soaked coffers.

 

Done. In general, I'll probably go with True Nutrition, but iHerb happens to have a sale on NOW pea protein powder, so I'm getting that this time around.

 

Brian

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...

 

However, in my view the evidence is more than strong enough that the responsible thing to do is to be honest about the scientific uncertainty, but to advise people to consume less sodium — and more importantly, to press fast food joints and food processors to lower their products' clearly excessive sodium contents to reasonable levels — unless and until a more definitive resolution is reached. To just dismiss it, or claim the opposite (that salt (or Himalayan magic salt) is GOOD for you) is irresponsible ...

 

 

 

I agree that most people eat way more salt than they need, but there is an instance where adding some salt is appropriate: endurance exercise.

Edited by SIRT1

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Goodness, it looks like NOW pea protein might be among the most contaminated out there:

 

http://labs.naturalnews.com/heavy-metals-chart-Proteins-pea.html

 

It actually looks to me to be no worse than the others: there are many metals about which one shouldn't worry at these levels (Zn, Cu); its Cd levels are typical, and its As levels are on the low end. The big concern would be Pb; I'm a bit more blasé than I might be otherwise, because (a) I use very little of the stuff (5 g on 2 out of 3 days in rotation), and (b} I consume it in a half-cup of kefir, and as many will know, Ca inhibits Pb absorption.

 

Useful info on dietary lead exposure:

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/search/doc/1570.pdf

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/doc/2831.pdf

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=92&tid=22

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I should have written: "most contaminated... as far as my own criteria are concerned", given that Pb is my biggest heavy metal concern (partly for non-obvious reasons I hope to get into at some point in the future).

 

I've been using 20 g/day (as part of an experiment) for the last few months. Sigh....

 

Thanks for the useful links!

 

Brian

Edited by BrianMDelaney

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Being 7ft tall, my protein requirements are a bit higher than most and I always have a hard time reaching even my bare minimum of 85gr, especially since I have developed a whey-specific lactose intolerance (plus the mTor issues with Whey). Pea protein is high in Leucine, also not that good regarding mTor, but that has been my main supplement, plus greek yoghurt (because it is strained, it is lower in whey than regular yoghurt) and chicken breast, although I am a vegetarian at heart. I just noticed that the protein factory has started selling Oat protein. It has a higher caloric load than pea or whey protein, but seems to be lower in methionine and leucine than rice or pea protein. Oats are pretty high in manganese, so I will have to find out if this is lower in oat protein if this is to become a daily supplement. Comments by the experts would be greatly appreciated...

 

Carel Struycken

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Carel- You are a man after my own heart (if not height): our decision tree/matrix is quite similar with respect to protein choice. (Why are so few of us CR folks worried about the massive quantities of Mn we’re ingesting?!)

 

Examining oats and pea protein via CRON, I see it looks like oats actually have about the same amount of leucine as NOW pea protein, more cysteine (which, evidence suggests, needs to be reduced along with methionine to get the low-meth. benefits), and twice as much methionine. Maybe the Protein Factory’s formulation contains ingredients other than oats?

 

For now, I've decided to stick with pea protein, though I’m going to find a brand other than NOW, and make sure the peas don’t come from China (only one of many problem areas, but it seems to the be the worst, overall).

 

 

I wonder whether a group of us could make a preliminary selection of a good protein powder, then pool together a bit of money to have it tested for heavy metals. (We might do the same for a cacao product.)

 

Brian

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Pea protein is high in Leucine, also not that good regarding mTor ... Oat protein has a higher caloric load than pea or whey protein, but seems to be lower in methionine and leucine than rice or pea protein.

Carel, whence did you get this impression? The company webpage, annoyingly, has no amino acid breakdown for their o@t pr0tein, nor their pea protein, nor for ANY of their products (this has been an annoyance of mine in the past, and when I wrote to them using their "Ask a question about this product" link I got no response). Also, I wonder if -- WHATEVER your source -- you're doing a true apples-to-apples comparison: you want to compare proteins on a per gram of protein basis, not on (e.g.) a per serving size basis. Looking in COM at NOW pea protein and comparing this either to the protein in the entry for oats, or to this scientific paper, and noting that the quoted "half cystine" value should be cut in half, suggess (as Brian says) that the Leu is about the same, the Cys is lower, and the Met is HIGHER.

 

IAC, all of these values are already on the low side as proteins go: compare whey, the usual go-to protein for decades.

 

Oats are pretty high in manganese, so I will have to find out if this is lower in oat protein if this is to become a daily supplement.

Smart! As Brian also says, there's inadequate attention paid to this amongst CR folks (though precious little one can do about it, in my experience ...). Unfortunately, I doubt that any supplier will have data on Mn. I wouldn't've known that oats per se are high in the stuff, since I had already quit eating oats during my lead-in from "healthy low-fat high-carb" to AL Zone eating, before moving on to CR proper.

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Guest Drew

What's he problem with manganese? I just checked cronometer and I average close to 10mg per day...

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What's he problem with manganese? I just checked cronometer and I average close to 10mg per day...

First: Drew, and others, please consider registering with the Forums and logging in instead of posting as guests. This prevents you from being impersonated, and allows other users to search for your posts.

 

Massive manganese exposure in welders is known to cause a Parkinsonian syndrome, and there's substantial evidence that very high levels of Mn in drinking water can cause it too. EPA has an aesthetic-based limit (taste and clothes staining) of 50 ppb; "California has set a health-based notification level of 500 ppb" ; New York has a Maximum Contaminant Level for manganese of 300 ppb, and "If iron and manganese are present, the total concentration of both should not exceed 0.5 mg/L. Your local water supplier should be publishing annual water quality reports on their website; I'm not sure whether Fe and Mn are required to be on these, but they have been in the last several communities in which I've lived, across several states.

 

Whether the same is true of dietary Mn is not known, but some studies suggest that it may be. Most of these are studies conducted in neonatal rodents, who of course are not humans IAC and whose Mn metabolism is apparently not yet properly-developed at the ages in question, but see (1), in humans (weak, case-control, high-Fe interaction probably doesn't apply to me or anyone not eating a ton of red meat). During past efforts, I have found it very hard to meaningfully lower my Mn intake in the context of a vegetarian, grain-averse CR diet.

 

Reference

1: Powers KM, Smith-Weller T, Franklin GM, Longstreth WT Jr, Swanson PD,

Checkoway H. Parkinson's disease risks associated with dietary iron, manganese,

and other nutrient intakes. Neurology. 2003 Jun 10;60(11):1761-6. PubMed PMID:

12796527.

Edited by Michael R

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Lately, I've been trying out Sunwarrior's "Warrior Blend" protein.  The vanilla flavor provides 19g of protein per scoop at 2g of carbohydrate (2g of which are fiber).  In the 19g protein serving, only 188mg of which are methionine, and 200mg are cystine.  I believe many of the benefits of calorie restriction are from the hermetic stress of restricted methionine/cystine?  The first ingredient listed is "Raw Organic Pea Protein" followed by raw cranberry protein and raw organic hemp seed protein.  It tastes fairly play-doh like, but it's palatable in a fruit/veg smoothie or shaken with some cacao and maca in coconut water.  (Lately, I'm using cocoavia's cacao powder which tests high in polyphenols and low in metals.)

Edited by sirtuin

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Hi, new to the forum.

 

Quick question, what is everyone's take on soy protein? I have been toying with the idea of adding some low met protein to my diet (and possibly rebuild at least part of my diet around that if it works), and I couldn't find any pea protein in nearby stores. I know I've previously read in the list discussions that soy products were somewhat suspicious if one considers the dementia and brain issues correlation. But I can't quite estimate how being mostly processed/purified protein would impact (and lower) that (putative, anyway) risk, for soy protein.

 

Also, aside from that one concern, is there anything else I should be aware of with regards to soy protein? The product I bought is an isolate with 92% protein per weight.

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My understanding is that, as regards dementia, it has been found to be a problem only with tofu.  Two studies found that.  One in Hawaii the other in Indonesia.

 

But perhaps others have more recent information than me on this?

 

Rodney.

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Lately, I've been trying out Sunwarrior's "Warrior Blend" protein. [...]

 

Sirtuin, sorry for missing your post! The email address under which I was subscribed stopped working so I wasn't getting notifications of replies. (And sorry to others whose posts I've missed.)

 

I also use Warrior Blend. I like (for non-scientific reasons) that it has multiple sources for the protein, and it's fairly restricted in met+cys (though not at all like some nut sources of protein, such as Almonds.)

 

Vincent, first, welcome!

 

Agree with Rodney, but I would say: why not order pea (or other plant) protein online? You'd get better met+cys restriction, among other things.

 

I should post something separate about the virtues of online ordering. Others had been singing the praises of online ordering of supplements, food, etc., for years, and, suddenly, several years ago, I "got it".

 

Best,

Brian

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All:
 
Vincent, glad you managed to register; welcome.
 
To answer your question fully and avoid hijacking this thread, I've just started a new thread on Tofu, Soy Products, and Dementia. (I've just realized I also need to address teh widely-repeated speculation that it's actually aluminum contamination. Long story short on that: a distraction). Long story short on soy protein: More Studies Needed, but for now I think the risk merits avoiding the stuff.

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Welcome Vincent!

 

Hi, new to the forum.

 

Quick question, what is everyone's take on soy protein?

Many years ago, when a Zone Diet-like macronutrient ratio was believed to be optimal for CR, I used to consume a combination of several plant protein isolates, including pea protein, hemp protein and soy protein.

 

The one thing I was careful about with the soy protein was to make sure it was low in isoflavones, given that isoflavones are the most likely component of soy that could potentially be associated with dementia (that, or the formaldehyde sometimes used in processing - see this tofu thread https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11326-tofu-soy-products-and-dementia/).

 

The soy isolate I used as the time was MotherSoy Essential Protein, available on-line here:

 

http://www.mothersoy.com/protein.html

 

But I want to emphasize I don't recommend consuming any protein isolates anymore, but instead getting a modest amount of protein from whole, mostly plant-based foods, especially if you are younger than 65.

 

--Dean

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Welcome Vincent!

 

Hi, new to the forum.

 

Quick question, what is everyone's take on soy protein?

 

...

But I want to emphasize I don't recommend consuming any protein isolates anymore, but instead getting a modest amount of protein from whole, mostly plant-based foods, especially if you are younger than 65.

 

 

I know from reading recent posts, that some people don't eat them because of AGE (something to do with cooking I haven't looked into), but is there a modern recipe for megamuffins that has an updated ingredient list (perhaps excluding the soy protein isolate it has in the version I can find)?

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I know from reading recent posts, that some people don't eat them because of AGE (something to do with cooking I haven't looked into), but is there a modern recipe for megamuffins that has an updated ingredient list (perhaps excluding the soy protein isolate it has in the version I can find)?

mtew,

 

More than a decade ago I used to make Megamuffins, but I haven't consumed them for a long time. However I was able to find Version 2.0 of the Megamuffin recipe also using the Internet Archive (archive.org) as you did. It is a great resource. Version 2.0 doesn't contain soy protein.

 

Here it is:

 

https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11337-michael-raes-megamuffin-20-30-recipes/

 

Note the reference to a lower-protein version 3.0 that may or may not be available in a more readable format than the XML file attached to that post.

 

Enjoy!

 

--Dean

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