What do you think of severe CRONIES?

[Capitao Nascimento]

I never wanted to be a severe CRONIE but I have read articles by Fernando Gabriel that 16-17 BMI, Michael Rae 15-16 and Khurram Hassimi who was 15.5-16.5. Khurram Hashimi eats about 1400 calories, Michael Rae 1800-1900 and Fernando Gabriel 1500-1700

How long do you think they will live, Michael Rae is Vegan, Fernando Gabriel drinks little alcohol and does not smoke but is omnivorous and Khurram Hashimi likes Coffee Fernando started CR at 17 or 18 years Michael at 28 or 30 years old, and Khurram at 32, I think Fernando may still be the oldest man in the world, and Khurram reach 105-110 and Michael 108-113 .

 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Capitao Nascimento

[FrederickSebastian]

I personally think it's amazing that a person can keep themselves going at such a low calorie intake. I liked watching the documentaries on YouTube about Michael Rae and April Smith... Also Paul McGlothin, Meredith Averill... Also David Fisher and Joe Cordell...

The most extreme case I've heard of was April Smith who eats only 1200-1300(?) calories a day... I hope I can be like this one day!!! Right now, I weigh 220 lbs. though, so going on a CR diet is a MUST for longevity at this point... Even if their BMI is low, I believe that these people are generally healthy as a rule...

[drewab]

I think that practicing CR at that level comes with greater risks and the possible outcomes have less certainty around them - there isn’t a lot of data on what happens to people engaged in CR at this level beyond N=1 anecdotes. 
 

In some ways it might not matter since almost no one is willing to do CR at this level, but for the extremely small number that do we don’t know. There could be problems with bone mineral density. There could be problems with immune system resilience due to not having enough energy to fight off infectious disease (although it appears they are less likely to get sick in the first place). It’s possible that some signalling pathways could be under active (I.e. IGF-1). I could go on and on.
 

Having said that, these people probably have an extremely low risk of CVD, cancer, and many other conditions. Mice restricted by 40% sure live longer (though quality of life is perhaps questionable and difficult to evaluate), but with people it seems like this might be too much.

I personally prefer the perspective of keeping a more  generous BMI of 20-21, getting daily movement (including lots of NEAT), heat/cold exposure, meditation, and so forth as a high reward (and low risk), path to longevity.

[Mike41]

On 7/20/2022 at 9:32 AM, drewab said:

I think that practicing CR at that level comes with greater risks and the possible outcomes have less certainty around them - there isn’t a lot of data on what happens to people engaged in CR at this level beyond N=1 anecdotes. 
 

In some ways it might not matter since almost no one is willing to do CR at this level, but for the extremely small number that do we don’t know. There could be problems with bone mineral density. There could be problems with immune system resilience due to not having enough energy to fight off infectious disease (although it appears they are less likely to get sick in the first place). It’s possible that some signalling pathways could be under active (I.e. IGF-1). I could go on and on.
 

Having said that, these people probably have an extremely low risk of CVD, cancer, and many other conditions. Mice restricted by 40% sure live longer (though quality of life is perhaps questionable and difficult to evaluate), but with people it seems like this might be too much.

I personally prefer the perspective of keeping a more  generous BMI of 20-21, getting daily movement (including lots of NEAT), heat/cold exposure, meditation, and so forth as a high reward (and low risk), path to longevity.

I’ve always doubted the mice data pertaining to humans in the case of say 40% cr. They are short lived and have little time to reproduce and so it makes sense in their case. That evolution factor just does not at all apply to humans. 

[mccoy]

On 12/18/2020 at 2:02 PM, Capitao Nascimento said:

How long do you think they will live, Michael Rae is Vegan, Fernando Gabriel drinks little alcohol and does not smoke but is omnivorous and Khurram Hashimi likes Coffee Fernando started CR at 17 or 18 years Michael at 28 or 30 years old, and Khurram at 32, I think Fernando may still be the oldest man in the world, and Khurram reach 105-110 and Michael 108-113 .

It's good that you have extreme CR practitioners as your heros. I mean, compared with the usual heros I find not-significant, like rock musicians, sports figures, actors, and the like. 

Now, your CR heroes are gambling, not without having considered the algorithms of the game, they decided the odds are in their favour. No one can say what will happen since this is a game of chance. We may be involved in a mortal car accident, and there goes longevity. A heart failure may occur for obscure genetic reasons, regardless of our efforts at longevity. Some considerations on some biological mechanisms may not turn out to be true, so CR may have been worse than doing nothing.

Conversely, we may boost our epigenetic expression to a level which will make us gain a decade. Nobody really knows. We are speculating on very primitive science.

What is probably less uncertain, the fact that prevention against the main causes of disease will indeed probabilistically endow us with more years to live. It's like playing a poker game knowing some cards of the adversary, this will bend the odds of winning to our favour.

Edited July 30, 2022 by mccoy

[Saul]

7 hours ago, mccoy said:

It's good that you have extreme CR practitioners as your heros. I mean, compared with the usual heros I find not-significant, like rock musicians, sports figures, actors, and the like. 

Now, your CR heroes are gambling, not without having considered the algorithms of the game, they decided the odds are in their favour. No one can say what will happen since this is a game of chance. We may be involved in a mortal car accident, and there goes longevity. A heart failure may occur for obscure genetic reasons, regardless of our efforts at longevity. Some considerations on some biological mechanisms may not turn out to be true, so CR may have been worse than doing nothing.

Conversely, we may boost our epigenetic expression to a level which will make us gain a decade. Nobody really knows. We are speculating on very primitive science.

What is probably less uncertain, the fact that prevention against the main causes of disease will indeed probabilistically endow us with more years to live. It's like playing a poker game knowing some cards of the adversary, this will bend the odds of winning to our favour.

To the best of my knowledge, Michael Rae has been vegetarian, but not vegan; that's (probably) still true.

  --  Saul

[mccoy]

18 hours ago, Saul said:

To the best of my knowledge, Michael Rae has been vegetarian, but not vegan; that's (probably) still true.

Yes, I too remember that, actually some animal foods have a clear advantage when doing CR (and generally speaking), total veganism is probably more of an ethic issue.

[paula]

I love this. Thanks everyone. The low bmi thing is not cron. the idea is to process less energy, while remaining at a healthy bmi. Am I right?  It is assumed that your body will increase its efficiency, by lowering metabolism or other method, to maintain a healthy weight with cr. admittedly bmi is healthy at a lower number than medical charts indicate, referencing the rice diet literature. I think 18 or lower is what kempner recommends. Lowering bmi below your doctors recommendation is a slippery slope, as you have pointed out. Not necessary for optimum longevity.That's what I think.