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Should we all be drinking wine?


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On 4/2/2020 at 4:13 PM, TomBAvoider said:

Oh, no, I would never think any of this kind of substance abuse was healthy in any way shape or form - it's absolutely not. And as far as smoking, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole - never have, never will. This is a completely different ball game compared to the occasional, or even regular but very controlled consumption of f.ex. wine.

Exactly, it appears, at least,  that moderate wine consumption is actually beneficial. Even Michael Rae drinks a small glass of wine with a meal last time I Checked, and if Michael Rae does it it’s for health not the buzz🤪!

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Alcohol Sales Surge During Coronavirus Pandemic

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According to market research firm Nielsen, U.S. sales of alcoholic beverages rose 55 percent in the week ending March 21.  Sales of spirits like tequila, gin, and pre-mixed cocktails jumped 75 percent compared to the same period last year. Wine sales are up 66 percent while beer sales rose 42 percent... Online alcohol sales were up 243 percent

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  • 7 months later...

Thanks mikeccolella for sharing such a valuable knowledge now i need you little help as Next week my husband birthday is coming so i am looking for a wine Aerator for him. He loves different wines and i don't have much idea whether Aerators  are good or not. I googled my query and got reference to this blog and got to know Overexposure to air has a three-fold effect on wines. When air is dissolved into the wine, the oxidation process starts. and also Spoilage of overexposed wine can also be attributed to yeast. Now i can't conclude much so before giving him that i am looking for your views. 

Thanks for your time.

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10 hours ago, Gyanfrenk6 said:

Now i can't conclude much so before giving him that i am looking for your views. 

Well, I am not mikeccolella, but I can offer my opinion.  I have a decanter, a rather pricey one I bought maybe 15 years ago, and I don't really know where it is in my house - and it's a large one 🙂  I've had a few aerators I've bought, or have been given over the years, and I haven't seen them in a while.

Which is another way of saying that I personally find little use for either of these products and that after the initial excitement, they are likely to end up forgotten in a drawer or a closet somewhere.  But some people, including some of my friends, really get into this stuff.

I don't drink as much as I used to and I am much more jaded about premier wines than I used to be when younger, so this plays a part of it.  I'd say order your husband a case of the Italian wine mccoy recommended recently in another thread, instead of spending the same amount on an overpriced bottle top 🙂

Good luck.

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20 hours ago, Ron Put said:

I'd say order your husband a case of the Italian wine mccoy recommended recently in another thread, instead of spending the same amount on an overpriced bottle top

Ah yes, definitely, JASCI organic montepulciano d'Abruzzo (riserva or no-sulphites), probably the best quality ratio around, in my limited experience. Rich in polyphenols and stilbenes (resveratrol) and maybe the riserva bottle even in Acutissimin-A, the fabled powerful anticarcinogenic compound developed when wine is aged in oak barrels.

Or maybe a single bottle of Rosarubra Shaman, another organic montepulciano d'abruzzo.

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On 12/3/2020 at 7:58 AM, Gyanfrenk6 said:

Thanks mikeccolella for sharing such a valuable knowledge now i need you little help as Next week my husband birthday is coming so i am looking for a wine Aerator for him. He loves different wines and i don't have much idea whether Aerators  are good or not. I googled my query and got reference to this blog and got to know Overexposure to air has a three-fold effect on wines. When air is dissolved into the wine, the oxidation process starts. and also Spoilage of overexposed wine can also be attributed to yeast. Now i can't conclude much so before giving him that i am looking for your views. 

Thanks for your time.

Hello Gyanfrenk, see the link below. It’s the one I have used for at least ten years. Perfect and cheap. Never failed once. Use it everyday. 
https://www.target.com/p/houdini-wine-vacuum-preserver/-/A-52360179?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012732784&CPNG=PLA_Kitchen%2BShopping_Local&adgroup=SC_Kitchen&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=c&location=9006144&targetid=pla-851158703236&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&ds_rl=1248099&gclid=CjwKCAiA_Kz-BRAJEiwAhJNY77Mn8_Ca6zGlNGB3Fk0R3nZ27UjBu4_l9P9QrPbLRYHZM5A9a0RcDRoCqhEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

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  • 1 year later...

https://world-heart-federation.org/wp-content/uploads/WHF-Policy-Brief-Alcohol.pdf

A new review of research by the World Heart organization refutes any benefits of alcohol even in moderation including red wine. Most surprising is their analysis of cardiovascular morbidity and alcohol even In moderation and including red wine. They attribute the long held belief that wine is heart healthy to several factors. Flawed studies due to confounding and industry funded research. They also attribute many other morbidities and mortality to alcohol including infections, cancer etc.contributing to  2.5 million deaths a year. And again stating NO AMOUNT OF ALCHOHOL IS SAFE!

Edited by Mike41
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9 minutes ago, Mike41 said:

https://world-heart-federation.org/wp-content/uploads/WHF-Policy-Brief-Alcohol.pdf

A new review of research by the World Heart organization refutes any benefits of alcohol even in moderation including red wine. Most surprising is their analysis of cardiovascular morbidity and alcohol even In moderation and including red wine. They attribute the long held belief that wine is heart healthy to several factors. Flawed studies due to confounding and industry funded research. They also attribute many other morbidities and mortality to alcohol including infections, cancer etc.contributing to  2.5 million deaths a year. And again stating NO AMOUNT OF ALCHOHOL IS SAFE!

Empirically, some of the longest living populations on earth consume decent amounts of alcohol (mostly red wine), in moderation. I think there is something to be said about moderate consumption combined with social interactions; if one worries about dying or extending life to the extent that they won't even have a drink (excluding addictive persons, alcoholics), then the problem may be in their worries. Most commonly consuming alcohol is done socially, and the longest living persons on earth tend to benefit from social interactions (rotary clubs, civic associations, etc) late into their life.

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32 minutes ago, alexthegra8 said:

Empirically, some of the longest living populations on earth consume decent amounts of alcohol (mostly red wine), in moderation. I think there is something to be said about moderate consumption combined with social interactions; if one worries about dying or extending life to the extent that they won't even have a drink (excluding addictive persons, alcoholics), then the problem may be in their worries. Most commonly consuming alcohol is done socially, and the longest living persons on earth tend to benefit from social interactions (rotary clubs, civic associations, etc) late into their life.

Exactly, and the report is saying those are confounders. IOWS DO THE THINGS ASSOCIATED WITH DRINKING, ESPECIALLY RED WINE AND CHUCK THE BOOZE!. THE POINT IS THEN, IF CORRECT, ONE CAN AVOID A WHOLE HOST OF DISEASES AND MORTALITY BY CHUCKING THE WINE AND ADDING THE ASSOCIATIONS 

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On 2/8/2022 at 5:16 PM, Saul said:

I'm no expert, but I tend to agree with alexthegra8.  (Any "fact" with two many capital letters is suspicious.)

  -- Saul

 

Does bold print count too! 😆. IAC I love a bit of drama. So I post stuff like this and emphasize their points. Doesn’t mean I buy it hook, line and sinker. I’m skeptical as far as the red wine goes. However Michael Rae gave it up awhile back after my earlier post saying he drank it. He considers it risky ASFAIK.

Edited by Mike41
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It can increase insulin sensitivity -https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1475-2891-9-14

also glymphatic waste clearance

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19476337.2018.1564794

all these convinced me to drink red wine when offered, but ONLY red wine and nothing sugar-sweetened. But I also don't, like, feel euphoric or better after drinking wine, which means I have very little urge or yearning to consume it.

Edited by InquilineKea
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  • 2 weeks later...

I've actually tapered off significantly, based on tracking data of my sleep pattern and resting heart rate. Alcohol definitely has a negative effect, and it's clearly reproducible -- in terms of resting heart rate, it mimics the effect of being sick.

I was reminded of this when I saw this on Reddit just now 🙂

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
39 minutes ago, Mike41 said:

I have grown dubious about such claims, as most are industry-funded and at the same time there is growing evidence of adverse effects. Moreover, the centenarians in Asia have not even tasted red wine, yet there are more of them per capita.

I'd seen studies that the beneficial cardio effect of moderate alcohol consumption disappears after 50-60, and as I am getting close to the upper limit, I am reducing my intake.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7920262/
 

here is the full study showing longevity effects in another life form. The weakness of the study is the small group. The power is that these were nuns with very controlled lifestyle, diet, activities etc. so confounding would be lowered. Also the physiologic changes noted in the study showing multiple effects. It should also be noted that genetics play a role. Asians, for instance, often respond differently than say Europeans to various treatments like statins etc. presumably due to genetics. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Associations between alcohol consumption and gray and white matter volumes in the UK Biobank

We report a multimodal brain imaging study of 36,678 middle-aged and older adults of European descent, a population sample whose reported alcohol consumption ranged from low (i.e., 1–2 alcohol units per day) to high (i.e., more than 4 alcohol units per day) levels of intake. The scale and granularity of the data provide ample statistical power to identify small associations while accounting for important potential confounds. We observe negative relationships between alcohol intake and global gray and white matter measures, regional GMVs, and WM microstructure indices. The associations we identify are widespread across the brain, and their magnitude increases with the average absolute number of daily alcohol units consumed.

Notably, the negative associations we observe with global IDPs are detectable in individuals who consume between 1 and 2 alcohol units daily. Thus, in the UK, consuming just one alcoholic drink daily (or two units of alcohol) could be associated with changes in GMV and WMV in the brain.

 

For the record, I have been drinking most of my adult life, mostly red wine. But the closer I looked at the numerous studies showing benefits, the more questions about their validity I had. As with olive oil, there are industry, cultural and national interests and biases that seem to color such studies.

Using fitness trackers over the years also shows that alcohol definitely affects my body negatively, based on sleep, stress, RHR, and HRV data. As a result, I have progressively reduced my drinking to several glasses a month, mostly succumbing to social pressure 🙂

Edited by Ron Put
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I believe this study may be related to the one Ron just cited.  Both draw from the UK Biobank, although this one has more subjects.

Large study challenges the theory that light alcohol consumption benefits heart health

in a large study published in JAMA Network Open, alcohol intake at all levels was linked with higher risks of cardiovascular disease.

The study included 371,463 adults—with an average age of 57 years and an average alcohol consumption of 9.2 drinks per week

Consistent with earlier studies, investigators found that light to moderate drinkers had the lowest heart disease risk, followed by people who abstained from drinking. People who drank heavily had the highest risk. However, the team also found that light to moderate drinkers tended to have healthier lifestyles than abstainers—such as more physical activity and vegetable intake, and less smoking.

The study also applied the latest techniques in a method called Mendelian randomization, which uses genetic variants to determine whether an observed link between an exposure and an outcome is consistent with a causal effect—in this case, whether light alcohol consumption causes a person to be protected against cardiovascular disease.

When the scientists conducted such genetic analyses of samples taken from participants, they found that individuals with genetic variants that predicted higher alcohol consumption were indeed more likely to consume greater amounts of alcohol, and more likely to have hypertension and coronary artery disease.

minimal increases in risk when going from zero to seven drinks per week, much higher risk increases when progressing from seven to 14 drinks per week, and especially high risk when consuming 21 or more drinks per week

The discovery that the relationship between alcohol intake and cardiovascular risk is not a linear one but rather an exponential one was supported by an additional analysis of data on 30,716 participants in the Mass General Brigham Biobank.

"The findings affirm that alcohol intake should not be recommended to improve cardiovascular health; rather, that reducing alcohol intake will likely reduce cardiovascular risk in all individuals, albeit to different extents based on one's current level of consumption"

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I just tasted the latest product of a local winery, with a high alcohol content (15.5%) and an intense, agreeable taste that is literally addicting. I must exercise sheer will power in keeping the daily amount within a single drink.

This is called Nican from Cantine di Orsogna

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Very powerful study on the relationship of diet with brain function and fluency. It is very important to consider what type of alchohol is consumed and HOW IT IS CONSUMED, according to this research. 
most studies do not do this!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7895545/

 

Government recommendations on how to drink alcohol state maximum of one or two standard drinks daily, and these recommendations do not distinguish between alcohol types nor their consumption patterns [38]. A recent report from the U.S. 2020 Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee recommended lowering the threshold to one drink daily across the board, which could imply that drinking is only for getting drunk, by targeting modest consumers in an effort to combat alcoholism and binge drinking. Here, we found that when distinguishing amount, type, and frequency of drinking alcohol, greater red wine consumption over time was related to better FIT scores, and consistent alcohol consumption daily, but not weekly or monthly consumption, may further improve score performance. We further observed that up to a bottle a day of red wine could be beneficial, under the right conditions. We could not explicitly model some parameters suggested by prior research, and therefore offer caution interpreting these findings until more quality-related parameters can be clarified.

Prior research has also elucidated several parameters meaningful for how to drink alcohol, many of which have been replicated conjointly and within a holistic dietary context here for the first time. Consuming alcohol slowly lowers peak blood alcohol levels [39]. Because the stomach is very effective at metabolizing alcohol, how long alcohol stays in the stomach is a major factor governing its rate of absorption. Therefore, drinking with or after a meal improves alcohol metabolism [40]. Among cognitively normal aged adults, low, but not moderate or heavy consumption of wine, has been associated with improved cognitive performance, white matter integrity, and cerebral blood flow [41]. Another observational study found that, in contrast to abstainers, light to moderate beer consumption was associated with a higher risk of dementia, while light to moderate wine consumption was associated with a significantly lower risk [42]. This is consistent with our findings of a link between the type, amount, and frequency of alcohol intake and cognitive function. Interestingly, a large, 1,624-participant observational cohort study found that individuals consuming alcohol regularly but at a moderate pace had improved cognitive function in comparison to abstainers of alcohol, supporting that proper alcohol intake is unlikely to result in adverse effects in the geriatric population [43]. When assessed by APOE status, the study found no significant difference between APOE genotype and the alcohol-cognition relationship, however, we found beneficial associations among ε4− and ε4+ individuals, particularly if red wine was consumed. Other research has shown that alcohol used in moderation may be anti-inflammatory, while increasing high-density lipoprotein, but decreasing blood pressure, which, in turn, may result in better cognitive function [44,45]. The alcohol-cognitive link may also be explained by prior evidence suggesting that alcohol could be directly mediated by certain neuroprotective factors, including the reduction of neuroinflammation, oxidative stress, and apoptosis [46,47]. However, more research is needed to elucidate the biological underpinnings of the qualities of alcohol and their effects on cognition.

It is important to note that some studies failed to differentiate between the types of alcohol consumed (wine, beer, and liquor) in the results. This is noteworthy, as prior literature has shown that a benefit is more pronounced with wine consumption than with beer or liquor consumption [48,49]. Although alcohol induces oxidative stress in tissues it may reach if it passes through the stomach, the polyphenolic content of red wine may actually be anti-inflammatory [50,51]. Furthermore, we did observe a significant association between red wine and higher FI in our data, but only in those with a APOE4− genotype or a family history of Alzheimer’s disease. Those who were APOE4+ or had no family history of Alzheimer’s disease, on the other hand, showed no such association

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a 2020 review came to similar conclusions. It’s all about how wine is consumed and how much. Most drinkers underreport their alchohol consumption by quite a bit. What is a drink. Wine is simply poured into a glass. So a drink could be 12 oz. That would be reported as one drink, but it’s really almost 2 1/2 . Wine is good! Just stick with 5 oz and drink it with a meal slowly!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7019227/

ince the rate of wine consumption is constantly increasing, numerous studies have been conducted to evaluate if it might represent a modifiable risk factor for cognitive impairment, but the results have been conflicting. Excessive wine consumption, associated with adverse brain outcomes, increases the risk of dementia by direct neurotoxic effects; however, light to moderate wine consumption seems to reduce the risk of dementia and cognitive decline in an age-dependent manner. An emerging body of literature contends that wine consumption may serve as a protective factor for cognitive decline and has associated the health properties of wine with polyphenolic content and their antioxidant properties. The increase in wine consumption is associated with factors that, in turn, promote the onset of dementia, such as hypertension and diabetes. Thus, the protection, attenuation, or intensification of AD may be based on the amount and frequency of wine consumption, individual characteristics, and individual lifestyles. Thus, further research is needed to clarify and comprehensively understand the effect of wine consumption on AD.

Author Contributions

Conceptualization, M.R.; methodology, S.J.; software, T.B.; validation, M.R., E.C. and A.C.; data curation, M.R. and H.K.; writing—original draft preparation, M.R.; writing—review and editing, H.K. and M.R.; visualization, T.B.; supervision, M.R.; project administration, M.R.; funding acquisition, A.C. All authors have read and agreed to the published version of the manuscript.

Funding

This research received no external funding.

 

 

Edited by Mike41
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  • 4 months later...

I wonder if you guys have watched this video, or if it has been already posted in another thread. In a way it's funny, because Hubermann illustrates so many reasons to quit completely drinking any type of alcohol and every 15 minutes or so goes on that he doesn't want to demonize alcohol, he doesn't' want to judge, he doesn't want to be a party pooper and so on.

Anyway, that's a conspicuous amount of literature underlining the deleterious effects of alcohol on any body cells, the liver, the brain, the gut biome, the immune system the sleep architecture, the behaviour and so on.

One legitimate critic is that he seems to ignore the literature pinpointing the benefits of moderate consumption of wine on CV health, or on dementia protection like discussed in the previous post.

 

 

 

Edited by mccoy
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