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[Mechanism]

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[BrianA]

Well let us know how it goes with your normal food. However I would say that last year when I did an extended water-only fast for the first time, I also experienced some elevated glucose readings afterwards. However it was hard for me to decipher as at the time I was using a slightly unreliable meter combined with happening to just switch to a fresh set of test strips after the fast, and on top of that over-eating calories for a few days after the fast. It did seem that after 4 or 5 days my readings settled down.

 

Part of the issue may be just how much of your body can fat-adapt to feed off ketones. May take a little while for it to switch back to glucose?

[mccoy]

Congratulations mechanism for the completion of your fast!

 

RE: blood sugar, it might be pancreatic delay, it might be gastric delay after a long fast, coupled with a high glycemic meal, all together would have contributed to the extended high glycaemia. 

 

It didn't occur to me to measure BG after my FMD. I just noticed that fasting BG counter-intuitively increased slightly during the FMD (from 78 to 84 mg/dl) whereas returned to the initial value (79) on the 6th day. It didn't decrease, maybe an example of nearly perfect homeostasis.

[Todd Allen]

The somewhat low 1.9 for ketones after 5 days of fasting might indicate that you had very effectively switched over to burning ketones and largely switched off glucose metabolism.  It's well documented  that people in such a state need time to reestablish the enzymes of glucose metabolism.  Generally it's suggested to take 3 to 5 days of ramping up carbohydrate intake to get accurate testing of glycemic control / insulin sensitivity.  For most people cycling glucose metabolism down and back up results in an improvement after the cycle is complete.

[Mechanism]

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[Sthira]

 

Thank you for generously sharing your experience, Mechanism! I think any communication about what we're experimenting with regarding aging, diet, fasting, CR and experimenting is valuable, if anecdotal.

 

* Baseline biometrics before breaking fast (2:30am): BG 69, ketones 1.9, temp 97.19.

* Broke the fast @ 3:35am, completed meal 4:15, eating slowly while running a few errands.

* BG 170 @ 4:40am( repeat at 183), ketones 0.6,

* BG 178 @ 5:30

* BG 183 @ 5:45

* BG 165 @ 6:35 ( a little over 2 hours after completing the meal so pre-DM range)

* BG 164 @ 7:15am.

* BG 154 @ 8:30 ( after nap, now 4 hours 15 min after I finished the fast-breaking meal)

* BG 121 @ 9:20 ( 5 hours & 5 minutes after finishing meal).

One thing Longo's work suggests is that adverse effects from FMD were higher after completion of the first cycle compared to those during the second and third FMD cycles.

 

But you water-only fasted for five days.

 

So if you're coming off a high calorie diet eaten frequently, like typical three meal per day societal routines, I'd agree with Michael that suddenly lurch-fasting for five days yikes might shock the monkey:

 

https://youtu.be/CnVf1ZoCJSo

 

We get better with practice.

 

Regarding your high sustained blood sugar numbers post fast, perhaps this is what shocking the system looks like in the blood sugar kingdom?

 

You could try easing first into this practice by skipping meals, eating fewer calories per meal, and then extending time between meals. Then maybe take a random Sunday off from all food. And so forth. Go slowly, carefully, mindfully -- to me this is one of the major benefits of fasting, the mindfulness and eventual ease. Then it becomes fun to fast -- a joy that's additive to an already rich life.

 

Many of the initial hurdles are psychological (at least for me) and social (pressure to eat from others) and the weight loss.

 

But for me weight has now stabilized at 140-150, I'm athletic, I've fasted a lot, I'm averaging about 30% CR via the fasting route here in 2017, that's up from 25% CR in 2016. I'm also much more muscular by fasting -- my abs are ripped, my core strength surprises me now, I can do things with my body now I just couldn't do when practicing daily CR a few years ago.

 

Refeeding after prolonged fasting with green smoothies works well for me. And I eat fruit, too, duh: it's DELICIOUS those first few days returning. Taste buds are definitely improved, if nothing else: this, these sharp taste buds now. My sense of smell.

 

Also consider buying a water bottle, a straw, some apple cider vinegar, and drink it during fruit refeeding after prolonged fasting.

 

Tl;dr: we get better at fasting with sustained practice. It's like learning to play the piano or pirouette -- we done starts off stumbling like clumsy folk, we do get better with technique and skill, and the body becomes more familiar and adept with what we're asking it to do.

 

And what we're asking it to do -- stop eating -- is something it's been doing through our lineages for millions of years. So, our bodies know stuff our rodent studies do not.

[Cloud]

Hello, do you know this video of Dr. Klaper on fasting? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m92Y12lpl6Y&t=2056s

[BrianA]

Randomly ran across this today, describing (if I'm understanding it correctly) how mitochondria actually reconfigure themselves based on the prevailing glucose vs. fatty acids fuel source availability. Body has all kinds of tricks like this we're still figuring out.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27052170

[Mechanism]

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[Cloud]

Hi Cloud! Btw, love your user handle, I always think of a sunny day with a few puffy cumulus clouds when I read your contributions... ( but maybe I should be thinking cloud computing with this tech savvy croud)

 

Thank you for the link to Dr. Klapper's presentation. It looks like a very helpful overview of the fasting process. These overviews - both medical and psychosocial in nature are invaluable as most communities have limited individuals experienced with prolonged fasting, lest of all clinicians and researchers working with large cohorts of fasted subjects, which provides a helpful perspective on the range of different responses, and optimal care across a physiologically diverse community.

 

I have gone through some of Dr. Alan Goldhamer's talks and publications before, which looks like it shares similarities with Dr. Klapper, also at TrueNorth. In your video, I found his tips on breaking a fast ( slowly sipping juices over the first hour) a helpful adjunct to the other tips from Goldhammer and others. How did you learn about Dr. Klapper's work?

Hello Mechanism, sorry for my late replying to your kind email. I have not so much time unfortunately.

My nickname comes from my interest in zen where often there is a reference to 'cloud'. a term used to name monk is 'unsui', literaly cloud-water.

I don't remember how I did find the dr.Klapper video, but is the best thing on fasting I found. he and Dr.Goldhamer work at the same center and they have a lot of experience on fastings. Luigi Fontana group has started a collaboration with them to collect their data

on fasting to be analized. 

all the best!Cloud

[Mechanism]

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[Cloud]

Thank you Cloud for the background! I have an interest in mindfulness / meditation but have not studied Zen. Maybe one day at Zen Mountain Monastery : https://zmm.mro.org/

Hello Mechanism, nice matches! I suggest to you also to try this line: http://onedropzen.org/

[Sthira]

I'm currently on day 7 of a ten day fast. It's going very well for me -- loads of positive energy. I'll break it in a few days with veggie smoothies and maybe some fruit like watermelon.

[Mechanism]

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[Sthira]

I broke my ten day fast today with some watermelon, and then later an avocado. I felt like I could fast for much longer; restraint, holding back, ending a fast seems more challenging than something as dopey as mere voluntary hunger. Hunger isn't the problem, either, hunger quickly goes away on day two, sometimes even day one, the problem (for me) with prolonged fasting is weakness, despair, then too much joy, love, and happiness (also a problem here in my world).

 

Most of the world's people remain in a constant, unchosen state of hunger and malnutrition -- even the obese striken with poverty and unfairness -- when I fast, though, I dedicate my practice to all sentient beings who must suffer. Not just poor people -- the world's animals and plants rapidly going extinct whom I feel so utterly powerless to help cherish and protect. Not that my fasting for anyone or anything matters very much; but the "spiritual" component to fasting arises naturally, like the salty breeze, even for us atheists. I'd like to believe I'm fasting in revolt against all that's so tragically fucked up in the world -- yet I know my idealistic sentiments are useless and absurd: In U.S. Restaurants, Bars And Food Trucks, 'Modern Slavery' Persists - NPR

https://apple.news/AqtBAHXfsQQOgK74LNBaCQQ

 

The paths out of sentient suffering won't be found in spirituality, god is dead; the paths out will be slowly unwound by that massive machine the scientific method, until that's replaced by AI, then all bets are off.

[mccoy]

Sthira, watermelon is excellent to break a fast. I find watery fruit is perfectly rehydrating, even more than pure water.

 

As to atheism and trust in science i find that it implies as significant a leap of faith as the belief in a supernatural being (God). My reasoned conclusion is that, in probabilistic terms, there is far higher likelyhood that life has been seeded by a supernatural Intelligence (not an AI) rather than life, and all universe, started on their own.

 

Either ways, I agree that our ethical duty toward the social problems which are afflicting our society remain.

[Todd Allen]

Mechanism, did you continue checking your blood glucose, either fasting or post prandial, since your elevated post fast readings?  I'd expect it would have returned to normal in a few days. 

[Mechanism]

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[Todd Allen]

Mechanism, I've been somewhat confused by many seemingly contradictory things regarding IGF1.  Supposedly chronic caloric restriction (especially protein restriction or at least restricting certain amino acids such as methionine) lowers IGF1 which lowers cancer risk and provides anti-aging benefits.  But fasting has been shown to dramatically boost growth hormone which boosts IGF1 which reduces risk of degenerative diseases and provides anti-aging benefits...

 

I've seen studies that show elevated IGF1 in seniors, a time when you'd expect declining growth is appropriate, correlates to lower mortality and improved health.  And studies that show low IGF1 in younger people correlates to lowered mortality and longer healthspan.

 

My purely speculative take on the conflicting things I've read regarding IGF1 (and many other conflicted elements of nutrition) is variability is good.   Low and high IGF1 each have pros and cons and it is probably better to go through periods of each rather than to be chronically in one state or the other.

[Mechanism]

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