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hazards and benefits of a fruitarian on CR

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Fruit-lovers everywhere will rejoice after reading this post about a 2012 study (PMID 23245604) that I just stumbled across showing low fruit consumption was the #1 dietary factor contributing to worldwide mortality between 1990 and 2010, resulting in an excess of 4.9 million deaths per year worldwide. Eating more fruit would be more beneficial for reducing worldwide mortality than eating more nuts, vegetables, whole grains or legumes.
 

Read it and weep, fruit-bashers... ☺

 

--Dean

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I'm upping this thread, since it contains lots of interesting material, compliments of Dean, about the fruit controversy.

 

To tell the truth, the fact that fruit is good for health to me has always been a Bayiesian prior (a known fact). All the literature on natural lyfestye, holistic medicine and even Yoga nutrition has underlined the benefits of fresh fruit (the healthiest, most sattvic food). Not to mention that, in my n=1 experiments of over 4 decades, fruit has never showed to be deleterious, barring extreme overindulgence.

 

So, we have a bayesian prior wich underlines the overall benefits of fruit

We have now a bayesian likelyhood (data) which provides evidence of the benefits touted by the holistic school

The posterior bayiesian is a more robust statement like: fruit is an absolutely healthy food in most healthy people.

 

The fact that fruit has been demonized by the recent dietary trends, is but a testament to the craziness of such trends.

 

Of course such trends (the ketogenic diet for example) may be beneficial to some individuals in specific conditions or with specific mindsets. Those are individual cases though, often limited, not to be generalized.

Edited by mccoy

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How about excess glycation caused by fructose? Fructose causes glycation as much as 10 times higher than glucose and possibly accelerates aging. Some of this effect could be reduced by polyphenols and vitamin C from fruit though.

 

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/bi00406a016

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.fr/2009/09/sugar-and-ages-fructose-is-10-times.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9732303

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0168822789901046

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Dean Pomerleau:  If there is too much fructose in circulation for the liver to handle, it can get converted to lipids and stored in the form of triglycerides, which are a risk factor for cardiovascular disease and metabolic syndrome...

* * * * *

So the bottom line appears to be fruit is beneficial, rather than detrimental, when it comes to one of the main concern people have about it, namely that the fructose it contains will raise your triglycerides.

 

 

Cf. Effect of Fructose on Established Lipid Targets: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Controlled Feeding Trials

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26358358

PMCID:PMC4599489

 

Fructose had no effect on LDL-C, non-HDL-C, apolipoprotein B, triglycerides, or HDL-C in isocaloric trials. However, in hypercaloric trials, fructose increased apolipoprotein B (n=2 trials; mean difference = 0.18 mmol/L; 95% CI: 0.05, 0.30; P=0.005) and triglycerides (n=8 trials; mean difference = 0.26 mmol/L; 95% CI: 0.11, 0.41; P<0.001).
CONCLUSIONS:

Pooled analyses showed that fructose only had an adverse effect on established lipid targets when added to existing diets so as to provide excess calories (+21% to 35% energy). When isocalorically exchanged for other carbohydrates, fructose had no adverse effects on blood lipids.[...]

 

 

 

Fructose might contribute to the hypoglycemic effect of honey

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22337138/

PMID:22337138

 

Abstract

 

Honey is a natural substance with many medicinal properties, including antibacterial, hepatoprotective, hypoglycemic, antioxidant and antihypertensive effects. It reduces hyperglycemia in diabetic rats and humans. However, the mechanism(s) of its hypoglycemic effect remain(s) unknown. Honey comprises many constituents, making it difficult to ascertain which component(s) contribute(s) to its hypoglycemic effect. Nevertheless, available evidence indicates that honey consists of predominantly fructose and glucose. The objective of this review is to summarize findings which indicate that fructose exerts a hypoglycemic effect. The data show that glucose and fructose exert a synergistic effect in the gastrointestinal tract and pancreas. This synergistic effect might enhance intestinal fructose absorption and/or stimulate insulin secretion.

 

The results indicate that fructose enhances hepatic glucose uptake and glycogen synthesis and storage via activation of hepatic glucokinase and glycogen synthase, respectively. The data also demonstrate the beneficial effects of fructose on glycemic control, glucose- and appetite-regulating hormones, body weight, food intake, oxidation of carbohydrate and energy expenditure. In view of the similarities of these effects of fructose with those of honey, the evidence may support the role of fructose in honey in mediating the hypoglycemic effect of honey.

Edited by Sibiriak

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The article on honey is very interesting. I've always been an avid consumer of it, I'm going shopping for domestic and exotic honeys with renevwed eagerness!

 

I also wonder about tualang malaysian honey, cited at the end of the article, but apparently very expensive.

 

But I'm probably going to try it once in my lifetime...

 

Dark black Tualang honey sounds promising, a little crazy though at US$ 110 oper kilo (and plastic jar)... 133 US$ with shipping.

 

black1-Copy-221x221.png

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An update: I've readen most of the comments. And just curious.

I'm just asking. Is fruit good for us then why Valter Longo recommends us less fruit consumption until old age?

What is your thought about this? You know him very well.

And here the table is:

155011916_Ekrangrnts2020-12-23004117.png.6accd6577edde0af18ab272c4a37c24b.png

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19 hours ago, mgoktas20 said:

I'm just asking. Is fruit good for us then why Valter Longo recommends us less fruit consumption until old age?

What is your thought about this? You know him very well.

I really don't know. His diet seems to have the purpose to minimize glycemic load and glycemic index, so maybe he suggests to avoid simple sugars. I really don't know why he restricts dairy products so much, whereas the amount of legumes is pretty high, and often not well tolerated by many people. 

In my opinion, the main achievement of Valter Longo has been the concept of Fast Mimicking Diet. In this, he has shown real genius.

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12 hours ago, mccoy said:

I really don't know why he restricts dairy products so much,

They are restricted primarily due their growth -promoting   amino acid profile, which differs significantly from that of legumes and other plant protein sources. 

A central aim of Longo's diet is to reduce those  growth promoting dietary factors after maturity and all through mid life,  and then modestly increase them as needed after age 65 or so,  depending on the individual.  (Secondarily,  there is the issue of saturated fat in dairy products.)

Legumes such as  common beans,  apart from their longevity-promoting amino acid profile,  are also extraordinarily rich in healthy fibers and micronutrients.  
 

Quote

Polyphenols are the predominant bioactive components with multifold bioactivities in diverse common bean cultivars. Phenolic acids, flavonoids, and proanthocyanidins are the main polyphenols in common beans, and colorful common beans are overall rich in polyphenols, mainly in their pigmented seed coats.

[...] For example, small red beans (Phaseolus vulgaris L.) showed the highest antioxidant activity out of 100 common foods (Wu et al., 2004).

Epidemiological investigations have indicated that the consumption of legumes with high phenolic content and high antioxidant value was associated with reduced risk of many chronic conditions such as obesity, diabetes, heart diseases, and even certain types of cancer (Curran, 2012).

Moreover, common bean extracts rich in polyphenols were reported to show anti‐inflammatory, antioxidant, antimutagenic, chemopreventive, and antibacterial effects (Aparicio‐Fernández et al., 2006; Frassinetti, Gabriele, Caltavuturo, Longo, & Pucci, 2015; Gan et al., 2016; García‐Lafuente et al., 2014). Therefore, as a dietary component, common beans have considerable health benefits.   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1541-4337.12391

See also:

Dietary legume consumption reduces risk of colorectal cancer: evidence from a meta-analysis of cohort studies

Quote

Flavonoids from legume food not only inhibit the growth of tumor cells, but also induce cell differentiation38. The inhibitory effects of flavonoids on the growth of malignant cells might be a consequence of their interference with the protein kinase activities involved in the regulation of cellular proliferation and apoptosis39.

In addition, legumes are rich in dietary fiber, which may increase stool bulk, decrease transit time and dilute potential carcinogens in the gastrointestinal tract.

Further, fiber from legume stimulates bacterial anaerobic fermentation which results in production of short-chain fatty acids, such as butyrate, which inhibits growth, induces apoptosis and cell cycle arrest, and promotes differentiation in CRC cells40.

 

FWIW, beans are  a key component in the so-called Blue Zone diets.

Quote

Beans reign supreme in blue zones. They're the cornerstone of every longevity diet in the world: black beans in Nicoya; lentils, garbanzo, and white beans in the Mediterranean; and soybeans in Okinawa. People in the blue zones eat at least four times as many beans as Americans do on average.

https://www.bluezones.com/recipes/food-guidelines/

image.png.66e1a5a505e8d16e7f639ee1ba1e9a2c.png
 

Quote

...the amount of legumes is pretty high, and often not well tolerated by many people. 

  There are probably ways to substitute other  plant-based proteins for the legume-derived proteins in Longo's  diet, maintaining the  overall concept,  but, of course  no diet  prescription is right for everyone, as we well know.   YMMV.

Edited by Sibiriak

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Sibiriak, I totally agree that legumes are healthy food, what I do not agree upon is that they must be eaten in a large amount to achieve health and longevity. Polyphenols are found in abundance in so many other plant-based foods and literature, as you know, can show us everything and just about the opposite of everything. I may cite so many scientific articles extolling the benefits of dairy products, especially so yogurt, which has distinct nutritional benefits, as everyone can see in cronometer, is usually very digestible (much more than legumes) and can be eaten in moderate amounts in such a way not to cause an excess of circulating IGF-1.

These articles are on topic since they show the benefits of yogurt and fruit eaten together.

Quote

Adv Nutr. 2017 Jan 17;8(1):155S-164S. doi: 10.3945/an.115.011114. Print 2017 Jan.
Potential Health Benefits of Combining Yogurt and Fruits Based on Their Probiotic and Prebiotic Properties.
Fernandez MA1,2,3, Marette A4,2,5.
Author information
Abstract
Fruit and yogurt have been identified individually as indicators of healthy dietary patterns. Fruits are relatively low in energy density and are an excellent source of antioxidants and prebiotic fibers and polyphenols, which can promote digestive health. Yogurt, on the other hand, is a nutrient-dense food that is a good source of dairy protein, calcium, magnesium, vitamin B-12, conjugated linoleic acid, and other key fatty acids. In addition, it contains beneficial bacterial cultures, making it a potential source of probiotics. Yogurt's unique fermented food matrix provides added health benefits by enhancing nutrient absorption and digestion. Combining the intake of yogurt and fruit could provide probiotics, prebiotics, high-quality protein, important fatty acids, and a mixture of vitamins and minerals that have the potential to exert synergistic effects on health. Yogurt consumption has been associated with reduced weight gain and a lower incidence of type 2 diabetes, whereas fruits have established effects on reducing the risk of cardiovascular disease. Yogurt and fruits can be eaten together and may exert combined health benefits through potential prebiotic and probiotic effects. Furthermore, substituting high-energy, nutrient-deficient snacks with fruit and yogurt could reduce the intake of high-calorie obesogenic foods. In light of the positive cardiometabolic impacts of fruit and yogurt and their association with healthy dietary patterns, there is sufficient evidence to warrant further exploration into the potential synergistic health benefits of a combined intake of fruit and yogurt.

 

Quote

Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2014 Nov;24(11):1189-96. doi: 10.1016/j.numecd.2014.05.015. Epub 2014 Jun 15.
Yogurt consumption, weight change and risk of overweight/obesity: the SUN cohort study.
Martinez-Gonzalez MA1, Sayon-Orea C2, Ruiz-Canela M3, de la Fuente C3, Gea A2, Bes-Rastrollo M3.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND AND AIMS:
Epidemiological studies on the association between yogurt consumption and the risk of overweight/obesity are scarce. We prospectively examined the association of yogurt consumption with overweight/obesity and average annual weight gain.

METHODS AND RESULTS:
Prospective cohort study of 8516 men and women (mean age 37.1, SD: 10.8 y). Participants were followed-up every two years. Participants were classified in 5 categories of yogurt consumption at baseline: 0-2, >2-<5, 5-<7, 7 and ≥ 7 servings/week. Outcomes were: 1) average yearly weight change during follow-up; and 2) incidence of overweight/obesity. Linear regression models and Cox models were used to adjust for potential confounders. After a median follow-up of 6.6 years, 1860 incident cases of overweight/obesity were identified. A high (>7 servings/week) consumption of total and whole-fat yogurt was associated with lower incidence of overweight/obesity [multivariable adjusted hazard ratios = 0.80 (95% CI: 0.68-0.94); and 0.62 (0.47-0.82) respectively] in comparison with low consumption (0-2 servings/week). This inverse association was stronger among participants with higher fruit consumption.

CONCLUSION:
In this Mediterranean cohort, yogurt consumption was inversely associated with the incidence of overweight/obesity, especially among participants with higher fruit consumption.

 

Edited by mccoy

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Nutrients. 2017 Mar; 9(3): 315.
Published online 2017 Mar 22. doi: 10.3390/nu9030315
PMCID: PMC5372978
PMID: 28327514
Consumption of Yogurt and the Incident Risk of Cardiovascular Disease: A Meta-Analysis of Nine Cohort Studies
Lei Wu1,* and Dali Sun2

Abstract
Previous systematic reviews and meta-analyses have evaluated the association of dairy consumption and the risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). However, the findings were inconsistent. No quantitative analysis has specifically assessed the effect of yogurt intake on the incident risk of CVD. We searched the PubMed and the Embase databases from inception to 10 January 2017. A generic inverse-variance method was used to pool the fully-adjusted relative risks (RRs) and the corresponding 95% confidence intervals (CIs) with a random-effects model. A generalized least squares trend estimation model was used to calculate the specific slopes in the dose-response analysis. The present systematic review and meta-analysis identified nine prospective cohort articles involving a total of 291,236 participants. Compared with the lowest category, highest category of yogurt consumption was not significantly related with the incident risk of CVD, and the RR (95% CI) was 1.01 (0.95, 1.08) with an evidence of significant heterogeneity (I2 = 52%). However, intake of ≥200 g/day yogurt was significantly associated with a lower risk of CVD in the subgroup analysis. There was a trend that a higher level of yogurt consumption was associated with a lower incident risk of CVD in the dose-response analysis. A daily dose of ≥200 g yogurt intake might be associated with a lower incident risk of CVD. Further cohort studies and randomized controlled trials are still demanded to establish and confirm the observed association in populations with different characteristics.

 

 

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Benefits of yogurt in aging:

 

Quote

Am J Clin Nutr. 2014 May;99(5 Suppl):1263S-70S. doi: 10.3945/ajcn.113.073957. Epub 2014 Apr 2.
Yogurt: role in healthy and active aging.
El-Abbadi NH1, Dao MC, Meydani SN.
Author information
Abstract
Yogurt consumption has been associated with health benefits in different populations. Limited information, however, is available on nutritional and health attributes of yogurt in older adults. Yogurt is abundant in calcium, zinc, B vitamins, and probiotics; it is a good source of protein; and it may be supplemented with vitamin D and additional probiotics associated with positive health outcomes. Aging is accompanied by a wide array of nutritional deficiencies and health complications associated with under- and overnutrition, including musculoskeletal impairment, immunosenescence, cardiometabolic diseases, and cognitive impairment. Furthermore, yogurt is accessible and convenient to consume by the older population, which makes yogurt consumption a feasible approach to enhance older adults' nutritional status. A limited number of studies have specifically addressed the impact of yogurt on the nutritional and health status of older adults, and most are observational. However, those reported thus far and reviewed here are encouraging and suggest that yogurt could play a role in improving the nutritional status and health of older adults. In addition, these reports support further investigation into the role of yogurt in healthy and active aging.

 

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Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 2017 May 24;57(8):1569-1583. doi: 10.1080/10408398.2014.883356.
Evidence for the effects of yogurt on gut health and obesity.
Pei R1,2, Martin DA1,2, DiMarco DM1, Bolling BW1,2.
Author information
Abstract
Obesity is associated with increased risk for chronic diseases, and affects both developed and developing nations. Yogurt is a nutrient-dense food that may benefit individuals with lactose intolerance, constipation and diarrheal diseases, hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, and certain types of cancer. Emerging evidence suggests that yogurt consumption might also improve the health of obese individuals. Obesity is often accompanied by chronic, low-grade inflammation perpetuated by adipose tissue and the gut. In the gut, obesity-associated dysregulation of microbiota and impaired gut barrier function may increase endotoxin exposure. Intestinal barrier function can be compromised by pathogens, inflammatory cytokines, endocannabinoids, diet, exercise, and gastrointestinal peptides. Yogurt consumption may improve gut health and reduce chronic inflammation by enhancing innate and adaptive immune responses, intestinal barrier function, lipid profiles, and by regulating appetite. While this evidence suggests that yogurt consumption is beneficial for obese individuals, randomized-controlled trials are needed to further support this hypothesis.

 

Quote

J Am Coll Nutr. 2016 Nov-Dec;35(8):717-731. Epub 2016 Jun 22.
The Potential Role of Yogurt in Weight Management and Prevention of Type 2 Diabetes.
Panahi S1, Tremblay A1,2.
Author information
Abstract
Yogurt is a semisolid fermented milk product that originated centuries ago and is viewed as an essential food and important source of nutrients in the diet of humans. Over the last 30 years, overweight and obesity have become characteristic of Western and developing countries, which has led to deleterious health outcomes, including cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, and other chronic conditions. Recent epidemiological and clinical evidence suggests that yogurt is involved in the control of body weight and energy homeostasis and may play a role in reducing the risk for type 2 diabetes partly via the replacement of less healthy foods in the diet, its food matrix, the effect of specific nutrients such as calcium and protein on appetite control and glycemia, and alteration in gut microbiota. This review will discuss the specific properties that make yogurt a unique food among the dairy products, epidemiological and clinical evidence supporting yogurt's role in body weight, energy balance, and type 2 diabetes, including its potential mechanisms of action and gaps that need to be explored. Key teaching points • Several epidemiological and clinical studies have suggested a beneficial effect of yogurt consumption in the control of body weight and energy homeostasis, although this remains controversial. • Yogurt possesses unique properties, including its nutritional composition; lactic acid bacteria, which may affect gut microbiota; and food matrix, which may have a potential role in appetite and glycemic control. • Potential mechanisms of action of yogurt include an increase in body fat loss, decrease in food intake and increase in satiety, decrease in glycemic and insulin response, altered gut hormone response, replacement of less healthy foods, and altered gut microbiota. • The relative energy and nutrient content and contribution of a standard portion of yogurt to the overall diet suggest that the percentage daily intake of these nutrients largely contributes to nutrient requirements and provides a strong contribution to the regulation of energy metabolism.

 

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I could go on and on, even citing articles where yogurt and dairy products are not found to elevate IGF-1 abnormally.

I simply, in my considered opinion, do not adhere to Longo's system of belief, as far as an ideal diet for everyone is concerned.

Without of course belittling the role of legumes.

Edited by mccoy

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15 hours ago, mccoy said:

I could go on and on, even citing articles where yogurt and dairy products are not found to elevate IGF-1 abnormally.

I simply, in my considered opinion, do not adhere to Longo's system of belief, as far as an ideal diet for everyone is concerned.

Without of course belittling the role of legumes.

J Am Coll Nutr. 2016 Nov-Dec;35(8):717-731. Epub 2016 Jun 22.
The Potential Role of Yogurt in Weight Management and Prevention of Type 2 Diabetes.
Panahi S1, Tremblay A1,2.
Author information
 

Angelo Tremblay serves on the Yogurt in Nutrition Initiative for Health Advisory Board for Danone Institute International and on the board of the Danone Institute of Canada. His research has been funded, in part, by Dairy Farmers of Canada, the Dairy Research Institute of the United States, Wyeth Consumer Healthcare, and Nestlé.
 

Need I say more?

Edited by Mike41

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13 hours ago, Mike41 said:

Need I say more?

No, but I cited many articles and I can cite more on top of them. Many of those guys had no vested interest.

Also, I could object if vegan authors write something on the benefits of vegan diets. That can be seen as a bias and it is, money-related or agenda-related. The same is true about carnivorous authors, keto-authors like Dom D'Agostino, and so on. This is another deep rabbit hole.

My bottom line is that nutritional science is almost hopeless. It's largely based on degrees of belief. Barring a few exceptions.That is why I'm not so much concerned presently on literature. I follow my own system of belief, based on many factors, including literature, but assigning it a variable weight.

Edited by mccoy

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On 12/26/2020 at 5:11 AM, mccoy said:

 

   On 12/25/2020 at 3:18 PM,  Mike41 said: 

Need I say more?

No, but I cited many articles and I can cite more on top of them. Many of those guys had no vested interest.

Also, I could object if vegan authors write something on the benefits of vegan diets. That can be seen as a bias and it is, money-related or agenda-related. The same is true about carnivorous authors, keto-authors like Dom D'Agostino, and so on. This is another deep rabbit hole.

My bottom line is that nutritional science is almost hopeless. It's largely based on degrees of belief. Barring a few exceptions.That is why I'm not so much concerned presently on literature. I follow my own system of belief, based on many factors, including literature, but assigning it a variable weight

broccoli, kale, lentils, chickpeas have not seen any industry funding for those! 

https://www.foodpolitics.com/tag/sponsored-research/

Edited by Mike41

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On 12/30/2020 at 2:50 PM, Mike41 said:

broccoli, kale, lentils, chickpeas have not seen any industry funding for those! 

https://www.foodpolitics.com/tag/sponsored-research/

I can agree, but Dr. Greger for example has a declared agenda, expressed clearly in his book: "not to die". An agenda is a specific purpose which invariably brings about a bias in the choice, the interpretation and the presentation of scientific articles. The above being said, I'm always willing to listen to Dr. Greger, although now I apply a degree of caution and discrimination in what he presents.

Other examples of authors/doctors with an agenda are Dr. Esseltsyn and many of the vegan, anti-EVOO doctors. I've listened to some of their podcast, the bias reigns supreme in their words. Calling eating vegetable oils "walking too close to the abyss" is not an unbiased opinion.

Bottom line, many authors have vested interests, be they financial or ideology-related. Discrimination must be always applied. One reason that I follow closely Peter Attia is that he is an acolyte of no religious dietary ideas. He just goes where the evidence goes, or seems to go. He has been in error quite a few times, but at least I know his conclusions presently are rarely influenced by bias.

Edited by mccoy

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On 12/26/2020 at 2:11 AM, mccoy said:

My bottom line is that nutritional science is almost hopeless. It's largely based on degrees of belief.

While I'd agree that there is a lot of bad nutritional science and that a lot that is unknown and unclear in the field, there are some general postulates that appear to hold: Consuming a moderate amount of calories from healthy, balanced, plant-based diet, appears to be better for healthspan than eating a lot of processed junk food or animal products.

Industry science does skew public perceptions, as does the popular media which often repeats PR releases without much questioning. I'd say that the olive oil industry is a notable offender :)

Most long-term vegans/vegetarians I know are such because of moral convictions, not so much for health reasons. I've seen studies that affirm my observation by reporting that "mora;" vegetarians are significantly more likely to stick with it than "health" vegetarians.  

I personally had an epiphany a couple of decades ago or so, decided that I don't want to be responsible for another creature's death just so I can eat a burger, and became a vegetarian. Whatever health benefits accrued since then have been mostly a by-product of that decision, as I would not eat animals even if there was no evidence whatsoever that it is a healthy practice. I have moved towards practical veganism not so much because I feel as strongly about animal slavery, so to speak, but mostly because I have come to view animal products as unhealthy in significant quantities.

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45 minutes ago, Ron Put said:

I personally had an epiphany a couple of decades ago or so, decided that I don't want to be responsible for another creature's death just so I can eat a burger, and became a vegetarian.

Ron,

 You are inspiring- it is a comfort to see other people with the ability to reason and consider the results of their actions.

 Clinton 

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10 hours ago, Ron Put said:

Consuming a moderate amount of calories from healthy, balanced, plant-based diet, appears to be better for healthspan than eating a lot of processed junk food or animal products

This basic concept, although accepted by many dietary religions, is rejected by other religions, like the paleoism, the carnivorism and so on. And these religions produce their own scientific papers which are peer-reviewed and published. The papers stating that high LDL is not bad are part of this scientific narrative.

Again, the situation to my eyes seems hopeless. What we can say is that, by applying discrimination, we came to the conclusions you cited above. But the uninformed or undiscriminative newcomer comes across utter scientific chaos and anarchy.

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6 hours ago, mccoy said:
16 hours ago, Ron Put said:

Consuming a moderate amount of calories from healthy, balanced, plant-based diet, appears to be better for healthspan than eating a lot of processed junk food or animal products

This basic concept, although accepted by many dietary religions, is rejected by other religions, like the paleoism, the carnivorism and so on.

...

Again, the situation to my eyes seems hopeless. 

I agree on the hopelessness of identifying a universal dietary approach to maximize human life span although avoiding processed junk food is a nearly universal commandment of paleoism and carnivorism and also of the health focused whole food denominations of veganism.

On an individual basis it is possible to experiment with approaches to diet and monitor the impacts on health and fitness.  It appears to me a learnable skill which if practiced life long ought to result in good health span.  Personally I find honing the skill of self experimentation to improve health and fitness far more interesting than opinions of what is supposedly better for large populations.

Edited by Todd Allen

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On 1/1/2021 at 5:52 PM, Todd Allen said:

although avoiding processed junk food is a nearly universal commandment of paleoism and carnivorism and also of the health focused whole food denominations of veganism.

Ah, yes, thanks for reminding me, that's really a common point that may suggest that the situation is not totally hopeless, although it's undoubtedly confusing. Another strong point common to many regimes is the abundant use of vegetables. That's a start, although a pretty generic one. 

On 1/1/2021 at 5:52 PM, Todd Allen said:

On an individual basis it is possible to experiment with approaches to diet and monitor the impacts on health and fitness.  It appears to me a learnable skill which if practiced life long ought to result in good health span.  Personally I find honing the skill of self experimentation to improve health and fitness far more interesting than opinions of what is supposedly better for large populations.

100% agreed, although fine-tuning self-experimentation is not an easy thing to do for everyone.

This discussion stemmed from a question on Longo's longevity diet and the lack of fruit and dairy products in such a regime. I'll start again from there. Valter Longo has built a conceptual framework according to which fruit and dairy may be detrimental to longevity. Although he's a formidable researcher, this does not mean that he cannot be wrong. More specifically, he's not wrong, but he generalizes a specific approach, simplifying the strategy to make it less difficult to follow. In the process, he forgets about individual propensities and variability. So Longo's solution is but one of the many solutions possible, and one which is easier to follow for some people, less easy for others. Easier also means more likelihood of lifelong adherence.

If I give up fresh fruit, I sure avoid a source of simple carbs, but at the same time I give up beneficial nutrients for longevity. Same goes for dairy products which display the benefits of nutrients richness with low quantities of product ingested at a low financial cost. EVOO is high in calories, but rich in some beneficial phytochemicals. We cannot have everything. We must optimize, choose something, discard other thing, apply moderation and discrimination and if possible make extensive use of self-experimentation.

Last, the argument of IGF-1. If an individual has parents and family members with a history of cancer, if IGF-1 and insulin are high, then the suggestion to decrease as much as possible animal products, including dairy products, may be the best, especially if the individual already had cancer.  Then Longo's diet or even a totally vegan regime with low simple carbohydrates intake might be the best choice. But this is not a generalization as offered by Longo, rather the result of individual situations.

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This is an apropos podcast, John Ioannidis speaks in detail about the various biases in nutrition science articles, not excluding biases from career interests, personal beliefs, the interest of an audience, selective bias, and so on. I didn't know about his 'cookbook' article, where he shows that among 50 ingredients chosen at random in a classic cookbook, most of them have been found carcinogenic in some articles. 

Bottom line is that, unfortunately, most articles are not very reliable (and it's not very easy to determine the reliable ones).

#143 – John Ioannidis, M.D., D.Sc.: Why most biomedical research is flawed, and how to improve it

Edited by mccoy

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