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Matt

Haven't been sick at all since taking Zinc

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TL;DR Since I started on zinc picolinate I've not caught any viral infection, and it's the longest time I've not had one (at least in recent years). My skin also cleared up very nicely after taking zinc, within days I noticed a huge difference. Nothing worked before to stop the acne. Other little issues I was having also completely went away.

I already mentioned my issues with magnesium and zinc in my blog posts, but I just want to share it here in case someone comes across it.

When I first started doing CR, it felt like I was almost completely immune to any bugs going around. Sometimes I would go years without catching a cold or the flu, and then somewhere along the line things changed.

In the last few years, I noticed I was getting sick just like everyone else. Every year, I'd develop a cold or what felt like the flu. They also seemed to be a lot worse than what I remembered having before. 

So at some point, I started developing acne (I really became a teenager again), athletes foot, and other skin issues. I think I also experienced some diffuse hair loss, but my hair is thick anyway, and therefore took me a long time to notice. During that winter I developed 3 colds, and then a burst eardrum. Although, despite being a large perforation and saying I needed an operation, it healed very fast, which was quite unusual apparently.

Eventually, I figured that I might be deficient in zinc. Normally I wouldn't be so complacent and track my nutrient intake or I'd just take half a multi in previous years and do just fine. However, I know that even tracking and getting enough through diet doesn't always guarantee there won't be an issue... as my experience with magnesium a long time ago had shown me.

So I started taking Zinc. Within days of taking 100 mg zinc picolinate, my skin and acne started to heal. I continued taking this amount for probably one or two months if I remember correctly, before lowering the dose to 50 mg per day and then 22 mg sometime after that.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this in case someone else experiences it. I have heard of many raw foodists/vegans having issues with these two minerals and even some people on CR showing signs of mild zinc deficiency. 

I'm a lot more careful again now about ensuring I get what my body needs by more closely tracking nutrient intake, staying on top of supplementing where necessary. I couldn't understand that despite my super healthy lifestyle I was having these issues, especially with acne! Something that my diet had completely stopped many years ago. And with regards to getting sick a lot, I put that down to just having 7 nieces and nephews always running around here and bringing germs back lol.

Edited by Matt

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The complicated thing about zinc supplements is the dosage. When you get zinc from food, cronometer or whatever can be a guide. Getting too much zinc is definitely not good - and it's easier to take too much with supplements. What is tricky with zinc supplements is that the forms vary wildly as far as absorbtion - the form you take, picolinate can be like 5 times more available compared to other forms of zinc. At which point, you really have to wonder how much you are taking and if it's over the daily max - 15mg from picolinate may not be the same as 15mg from citrate, and you don't know how the supp manufacturer calculated the 15mg, you could be absorbing or not absorbing up to one fifth or 5 times as much. It's a big gamble. Easy to over/under dose. Which is why I suppose people generally try to get it from food (which is not easy, I know - especially for vegeterians/vegans). 

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As I understood, zinc can bind cadmium, which is an advantage to those consuming lots of cacao (which by the way is rich in zinc itself). However, zinc may be polluted by cadmium so it should be from a reliable manufacturer. I'm taking zinc supplements since read Michael's reccomandations. Picolinate from Solgar. Cannot say it boosted my immune system since I changed quite a few things. It might have contributed though, together with CE, exercise, a vegan diet rich in xenohormetics, regular sleep. This year I was just unable to have even a tiny health issue. Hope it goes on like that!

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I just checked, Solgar's zinc picolinate which I'm taking daily is 11 mg zinc per pill (110% RDA).  I already take 100%+ zinc from dietary sources. Zinc seems to bind copper as well, which is a good thing since my diet is very copper rich (500% RDA). Cadmium+copper binding=two birds with a stone.

 

The tolerable UL for zinc, adult males seems to be 40 mg/day. The source of zinc is not specified

 

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Zinc-HealthProfessional/#h2

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"studies have found that zinc citrate is at least as well-absorbed as the expensive health-food-store favorites, such as picolinate,[xxxiv],[xxxv]"

-- https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11136-nutrition-and-supplementation-for-vegetarians/?hl=picolinate&do=findComment&comment=12331

 

Positively charge ions do not bind other positively charged ions. They complete for each others' uptake.

 

Get blood tests for minerals.

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"studies have found that zinc citrate is at least as well-absorbed as the expensive health-food-store favorites, such as picolinate,[xxxiv],[xxxv]"

-- https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11136-nutrition-and-supplementation-for-vegetarians/?hl=picolinate&do=findComment&comment=12331

 

Positively charge ions do not bind other positively charged ions. They complete for each others' uptake.

 

Get blood tests for minerals.

 

45 YEAR Supply for $14:

https://amzn.to/2KMBQpa

What's the shelf life?  ;)

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"studies have found that zinc citrate is at least as well-absorbed as the expensive health-food-store favorites, such as picolinate,[xxxiv],[xxxv]"

-- https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11136-nutrition-and-supplementation-for-vegetarians/?hl=picolinate&do=findComment&comment=12331

 

Positively charge ions do not bind other positively charged ions. They complete for each others' uptake.

 

Get blood tests for minerals.

 

My bad for the mistaken expression, they compete to be bound , and thanks for the link to MR's good piece on supplements, re-reading it is sure useful.

 

Re. blood tests: I still have little idea about all the parameters to test, there is probably a thread somewhere or I'll have to open a new one.

Edited by mccoy

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MMmmm..., after re-reading MR's suggestions on zinc I'm definitely going to stick to my daily pill, most probably going to increase it since there are more competing minerals such as copper (500% RDA in my case) and cadmium.

 

One brand I'm buying supplements from in Europe (low prices, reasonable quality) is the German Vitamaze, 10 € for a one-year stock (50 zn mg per tablet, zinc gluconate). Wonder if anyone else buys this brand.

 

41JuchX39wL._AC_US327_FMwebp_QL65_.jpg

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One maybe favourable issue is that zinc is at the top of the Irving-Williams series together with copper. The bad news of course is that copper tends to be a stronger competitor than zinc, with high amounts available in vegan diets as discussed. I wonder where would cadmium sit in the Irving-Williams series.

 

zbc04114-9818-m01.jpg

 

But the issue seems not to be so straightforward since enzymes metallazion is somewhat assisted by cells. I'm goign to stop here otherwise this working afternoon will be compromised!!

 

J Biol Chem. 2014 Oct 10; 289(41): 28095–28103.
Published online 2014 Aug 26. doi:  10.1074/jbc.R114.588145
PMCID: PMC4192464
PMID: 25160626

Metal Preferences and Metallation*

 

 
Edited by mccoy

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You can also get zinc picolinate for pretty cheap.  Hard to find one with 100% RDA though, most are much higher.  Don't know how easy it would be to split these in half for example, or if it would be fine to take every other day:

https://amzn.to/2KRxVI3

They also have some copper, which may not be desired for people on a diverse plant based whole food diet.

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Years ago I posted my experience with zinc supplementation. once i broke a toe and it just would not heal for several months! I took zinc and within a week it was much better. a few years later I had an infection in my finger. it throbbed. I went to a doc and he prescribed a powerful antibiotic which eliminated it, but after discontinuing the anti biotic after 5 days as prescribed it came back with a vengeance. this time, once again, I took zinc 15 mg. in a few days it was gone. recently i had an arm injury from using a sledge hammer. it throbbed and hurt and would not go away. again I tried taking zinc and again it went away in a few days. I dont know if these examples are placebo effects or not. all I can say is THAT I HAVE EXPERIMENTED MY WHOLE LIFE WITH SUPPLEMNTS AND 99% OF THE TIME THEY ARE TOTALLY USELESS AFAIK. But zinc seems to have this profound healing effect. I always end up not taking it in the long run because I dont want to overdo it because Cron o meter says I get about 11 grams from my diet which should be sufficient; however, I eat a very vegan, high fibre diet with lots of green tea so maybe I dont absorb enough???? 

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I think a few of us have had issues with Zinc.

MR mentioned it before on the old lists as well...  He may have had a mild zinc deficiency. And I've also come across a lot of raw food, vegan, who developed issues with zinc.

 

CRON-O-METER always said I had enough magnesium, but I still had problems without supplementing. Sometimes my diet was low in zinc, but I never thought it was enough to cause an issue because it definitely wasn't consistent.

 

I don't think it's a fluke that I'm so much more resistant to infections now. But yeah, I heal much faster now too. 

 

A couple videos from Megan that I found. She's a long-term raw foodist

 

 

Edited by Matt

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Still taking zinc every day and it really does feel like it's the most important supplement I've taken for my immune system. I think it'll be 3 years towards the end of the year since I last got sick with a cold or flu. I'm pretty much the only one here that seems to be immune from catching anything. 

Don't even remember when I was last physically sick (vomiting) from a stomach bug. Must be 10 years +. But for that, I totally credit allicin max. As soon as I've ever felt something coming on, I take 10 capsules in one go with some toast. And then repeat a few times in the day. And it's gone within hours.

Anyway, just thought I'd share those tips and give an update.

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Matt,

For what it's worth, I too supplement with zinc, in part to offset the extra copper I get from eating lots of mushrooms and veggies in part because I appear to have a gene that dramatically increases the risk of macular degeneration, which carefully controlled studies (i.e. AREDS - discussed here) suggest supplemental zinc can help avoid.

I'm not sure if zinc supplements are the reasons, but I too haven't been sick with a cold or flu for many years. I made the same claim in 2015 and I haven't been sick in the interim.

47 minutes ago, Matt said:

Don't even remember when I was last physically sick (vomiting) from a stomach bug. Must be 10 years +. But for that, I totally credit allicin max.

Along the same lines, I eat 2 cloves or raw garlic a day plus lots of garlic powder in my spice mix, which might serve the same beneficial role as your allicin supplements in staving off certain illnesses.

--Dean

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What do you guys exactly mean by not being sick? No fever at all? No cold symptoms (running nose)? No sore throat, nothing at all which debilitates for a couple of days?

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27 minutes ago, mccoy said:

What do you guys exactly mean by not being sick? No fever at all? No cold symptoms (running nose)? No sore throat, nothing at all which debilitates for a couple of days?

Lack of all of the above. 

--Dean 

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Back in 2000, I came back to LA from London, where my wife and I celebrated the millenium new year. I must have caught something in the airplane, and I was really quite sick. I recovered, and that's when my real journey started on CR. I am not sure if it was the flu I had, but it was pretty intense. Anyhow, I have not been that sick since then - so if that was the flu, I have not had the flu since 2000. I have had "colds" - runny nose, sore throat, a handful of times. For the last few years, I have had a slightly different thing happen - like maybe once every 3 years or so, either my wife or I will come back from work, where absolutely everybody is very sick. What will happen is that I'll have a mildly sore throat for a few hours, and then it'll pass and I''ll be fine, as if my body fought off the incipient cold. I don't know if that's what's happening, but it seems that when I do occassionally get a runny nose, it's usually very brief, often on the order of hours or overnight at worst. I do supplement with Zinc 15 mg, but only Tuesdays and Fridays. I really don't know what to do about zinc, since reading about it freaks me out - there don't seem to be any solid evidence of long term benefits (other than maybe lozenges shortening colds), and some evidence of possible harm with excessive supplementation of zinc.

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3 hours ago, Dean Pomerleau said:

Lack of all of the above. 

--Dean 

Well, congratulations, that's something like the superimmunity state described by Joel Fuhrman in his book by the same title. I value that, maybe as much as the potential longevity benefit.

Two years ago I experienced superimmunity but last winter, to my chagrin, I had a couple of episodes of non-perfect well being, notwithstanding the zinc, the CE, the vegan diet. But I was not practicing CR.

 

 

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My immune system wasn't up to the challenge of fighting off Lyme disease, which required a course of antibiotics to clear up a year and a half ago. Unfortunately my only symptoms were achy joints; none of the flu-like symptoms or rash commonly accompanying Lyme. As a result I didn't discover I had it until a few months had passed and I decided to get tested on a hunch when the sore joints wouldn't go away.

One other thing to consider in my case. For the first few years of freedom from colds and flu I had two school-age kids in the house who frequently brought home illnesses which I fortunately seemed unsusceptible to. But for the last couple years we've been empty-nesters and I've lived a rather eremitic existence, so my exposure to pathogens has been greatly reduced. This makes my recent good health somewhat less unusual.

--Dean

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Hi Dean!

I occasionally have a runny nose -- a postnasal drip --, I think from seasonal allergies.  Aside from that, nothing.  No other cold-like symptoms.  Never any trace of a stomach problem or headache.

The last headache I can remember is from when I was a child -- so that probably doesn't have much to do with CR.  I can't remember any stomach problems.

  --  Saul

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