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Edward

Exercise is not good for longevity.

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I can't seem to figure out how exercising can actually extend life. If you think about it, you are causing more stress on your body, which will cause more cell repair and apoptosis. You have to think of your body as a machine, it will wear out with use, the more you use it the quicker it will wear out. 

I come across plenty of articles which say how running and over exercising is actually hamful. These articles usually discuss over exercising, but I tend to think that any exercise probably isn't good.

I just can't seem to figure out why punishing your body and joints is actually good in the long run. How can inflicting stress on your body be good?

The reason why everybody has exercise wrong is that in the short term your body does become stronger because of the stresses. Your muscles get bigger, your heart and lung muscles grow, your bones get thicker. 

However, this short term increase will cause your body to wear out much sooner, and you will not have the cell capacity to live into your 70's, 80's, 90's.. Think of obese people who have huge thick hearts to deal with their weight, only to have those hearts fail after many years of all the extra stresses. What happens is their heart muscles eventually grow thin and that is probably from apoptosis.

In my case I do not see any reason to exercise, it is all about maintaining a low body weight by limiting food intake and not by trying to be more active or exercising.

I'm 5'9, 122lbs, 38year old male. I don't exercise and am against it, yet I'm so much more fit and energetic then anyone I know, except maybe young skinny teenagers.  I can easily go out and run probably 2 or 3 miles or more without any training. The important thing is to  reduce calories, stay skinny (body fat % very low), and take it easy on your body. Your day to day activities will be more than enough to keep you in top physical shape. Carrying around extra muscle weight and having to intake extra calories to maintain these muscles is not good for longevity. 

If you feel you need to do exercise, most likely you are not skinny and carrying extra weight (fat) around which your body wasn't designed to carry. If you are not around a BMI of 17-18, then you are carrying too much weight around. Trying to build huge muscles, including heart and lung muscles, to deal with the extra weight is not healthy. 

Everything is a trade off. If you want to be extra fit, able to run a marathon, you will then be more fit by exercising but the trade off is giving up longevity.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edward

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Taken from Life Extension Foundation Article:

When we think of the benefits of exercise, we tend to think of its ability to reduce cardiovascular disease, strengthen bones and muscles, and control weight.  Research is now proving that exercise is also crucial for preserving and enhancing brain function as we age.1-8  Studies show that exercise inhibits neurodegenerative diseases and even promotes neurogenesis the creation of new brain cells.1-4  While most forms of exercise are associated with improved cognition, some forms may be superior to others in that respect.  A newly released study demonstrates that resistance exercise or weight training, rather than aerobic exercise, has a greater  impact on cognitive function.9

Enhanced Muscle Strength Provides Cognitive Protection

For aging individuals, exercise is associated with an array of benefits that support longer lifespan.10  One recent study supports its connection to protecting and enhancing brain function.  In October 2016, scientists released the findings of a large randomized, double-blind, controlled trial that investigated the effects of resistance training on cognitive function in older adults.9 Resistance training, also called strength training, is exercise that uses weights, machines, bands, or other devices that work key muscle groups.  Previous studies had already shown the cognitive benefits of exercise, but this time the researchers wanted to determine whether the cognitive improvements occurred as a result of increased aerobic capacity or increased muscle strength.The study included 100 participants age 55 and over with mild cognitive impairment. Each was randomly assigned to either a sham version or a legitimate version of a progressive program of resistance training for two to three days per week.

They also received computerized cognitive training.Although the program improved both whole-body muscle strength and aerobic capacity, the study team found that only the enhancedstrength scores—but not the enhanced aerobic scores —were significantly associated with improvements in cognition.While the exact reason for these beneficial effects remains unknown, it is clear that it is the strength-related gains from resistance exercise that cause its cognitive benefits.This is an important finding that should change how the medical community approaches exercise. Most medical professionals recommend aerobic exercise, yet fail to understand the value and benefits of resistance exercise, especially in aging populations. This trial showing the superior cognitive benefits of strength training adds to a wealth of past evidence supporting the value of exercise in inhibiting sarcopenia, cognitive decline, and the onset of neurodegenerative disease.11-13  Data now conclusively show that exercise—specifically resistance training—is not just essential for the health of your body, but is an essential component to the health of your brain.

Exercise and the Brain

Exercise has been shown to be crucial for preserving, and even enhancing, brain function as we age. A Mayo Clinic study on more than 1,300 subjects concluded that any frequency of moderate-intensity exercise performed in midlife or late life was associated with reduced risk of having mild cognitive impairment.Multiple mechanisms for this cognitive benefit have been identified:

Exercise boosts blood flow in the brain,5,6 improving the delivery of oxygen and nutrients to critical brain cells.  Exercise promotes angiogenesis (the formation of new blood vessels from pre-existing vessels) as well as neurogenesis (the formation of new neurons from stem cells) in the adult hippocampus.2,3 Angiogenesis is important for neurogenesis because the improved blood supply facilitates the growth of new neurons and their supporting structures.2-4  Exercise enhances the production of key neurotransmitters, such as serotonin, acetylcholine, and gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA).14 Serotonin regulates mood and sleep; acetylcholine plays a role in cognition, memory, and learning; and GABA, the main inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain.15,16  Exercise also increases the production of beneficial brain proteins called neurotrophins (a family of proteins that regulate neuron survival).1,7 Greater physical activity can increase the production of a specific neurotrophin that is

associated with enhanced cognitive function and brain plasticity.2,14,17,18

1. Ploughman M. Exercise is brain food: the effects of physical activity on cognitive function. Dev Neurorehabil.

2008;11(3):236-40.

2.Lista I, Sorrentino G. Biological mechanisms of physical activity in preventing cognitive decline. Cell Mol Neurobiol.

2010;30(4):493-503.

3. Van der Borght K, Kobor-Nyakas DE, Klauke K, et al. Physical exercise leads to rapid adaptations in hippocampal

vasculature: temporal dynamics and relationship to cell proliferation and neurogenesis. Hippocampus.

2009;19(10):928-36.

4. Pereira AC, Huddleston DE, Brickman AM, et al. An in vivo correlate of exercise-induced neurogenesis in the adult

dentate gyrus. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2007;104(13):5638-43.

5. Linkis P, Jorgensen LG, Olesen HL, et al. Dynamic exercise enhances regional cerebral artery mean flow velocity. J

Appl Physiol (1985). 1995;78(1):12-6.

6. Querido JS, Sheel AW. Regulation of cerebral blood flow during exercise. Sports Med. 6. 2007;37(9):765-82.

7. Floel A, Ruscheweyh R, Kruger K, et al. Physical activity and memory functions: are neurotrophins and cerebral gray

matter volume the missing link? Neuroimage. 2010;49(3):2756-63.

8. Geda YE, Roberts RO, Knopman DS, et al. Physical exercise, aging, and mild cognitive impairment: a

population-based study. Arch Neurol. 2010;67(1):80-6.

9. Mavros Y, Gates N, Wilson GC, et al. Mediation of Cognitive Function Improvements by Strength Gains After

Resistance Training in Older Adults with Mild Cognitive Impairment: Outcomes of the Study of Mental and

Resistance Training. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society. 2016.

10. Du J, Li G, Gao YL, et al. [Influencing factors on healthy life expectancy in adults in Beijing]. Zhonghua Liu Xing Bing

Xue Za Zhi. 2016;37(8):1087-90.

11. Roth SM, Ferrell RF, Hurley BF. Strength training for the prevention and treatment of sarcopenia. J Nutr Health

Aging. 2000;4(3):143-55.

12. Nagamatsu LS, Handy TC, Hsu CL, et al. Resistance training promotes cognitive and functional brain plasticity in

seniors with probable mild cognitive impairment. Arch Intern Med. 2012;172(8):666-8.

13. Paillard T, Rolland Y, de Souto Barreto P. Protective Effects of Physical Exercise in Alzheimer’s Disease and

Parkinson’s Disease: A Narrative Review. J Clin Neurol. 2015;11(3):212-9.

14. Ma Q. Beneficial effects of moderate voluntary physical exercise and its biological mechanisms on brain health.

Neurosci Bull. 2008;24(4):265-70.

15. Available at: http://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-depression. Accessed 15. February 6, 2017.

16. Jembrek MJ, Vlainic J. GABA Receptors: Pharmacological Potential and Pitfalls. Curr Pharm Des.

2015;21(34):4943-59.

17. Cotman CW, Berchtold NC. Exercise: a behavioral intervention to enhance brain health and plasticity. Trends Neurosci.

2002;25(6):295-301.

Edited by Clinton

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@ Edward;

Exercise doesn't actually slow the metabolic process of aging afaik.  What exercise (resistance training and cardiovasular training) will do is decrease rates of mortality and afterall, extending lifespan is the art of not dying.

You said:

Quote

If you are not around a BMI of 17-18, then you are carrying too much weight around. Trying to build huge muscles, including heart and lung muscles, to deal with the extra weight is not healthy. 

 

A guy that doesn't exercise with a BMI of 17-18 probably has more insulin resistance than he'd like, less bone density, a weaker heart, less efficient lungs, even weaker cognitive function ... just my sincere advice: double-check your reasoning for avoiding excercise and be careful you are not simply trying to justify being lazy at the expense of your own health (and ultimately longevity). 

Edited by Clinton

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Life Extension Magazine July 2018

2017 Exercise is Medicine Conference

By Ben Best

Aging is associated with the replacement of muscle by fat.  Waist circumference increases due to an increase in visceral fat, which causes chronic inflammation. Muscle loses quality and strength, contributing to the disabilities of old age.  Aging is also associated with increased insulin resistance and diabetes.  Physical inactivity accounts for many of these problems, which can be greatly reduced by exerciseExercise reduces blood glucose levels.  This report is based on the Exercise is Medicine conference held in Denver, Colorado, in June 2017. It reveals new findings on the favorable effects of even moderate increases in physical activity.

Fitness and Risk of Death

Robert Ross, Ph.D. (professor, Queen’s University, Ontario, Canada) studies the health benefits of fitness.  People who are fit have a lower risk of death—even if they smoke and have elevated cholesterol and blood pressure— compared to unfit people that have none of those risk factors.  Patients with dyslipidemia (elevated blood cholesterol and triglycerides) who are highly fit but are not taking statins have a substantially lower risk of dying than dyslipidemia patients taking statins who are unfit.  Dr. Ross was chair of a 2016 American Heart Association Committee that issued a report showing that low cardiorespiratory fitness is a stronger predictor of death than smoking, high cholesterol, type II diabetes, or high blood pressure.

Inactivity and Blood Vessel Health

Jaume Padilla, Ph.D. (assistant professor, University of Missouri) is concerned with the effects of physical activity on endothelial function.  Endothelial dysfunction refers to the reduced capacity of blood vessel walls (the endothelium) to dilate and thereby increase blood flow. Endothelial dysfunction is one of the early changes contributing to atherosclerosis, a narrowing of the arteries that increases the risk of heart attack and stroke. A 1% increase in endothelial function is associated with a 13% reduced risk of

cardiovascular disease.  Exercise prevents the decline of endothelial function that occurs with age.  In one experiment, Dr. Padilla showed that only five days of reduced activity (from 10,000 steps per day to 5,000 steps per day) substantially reduced endothelial function in leg arteries.  He also showed that engaging in exercise prior to prolonged sitting could prevent the endothelial dysfunction normally caused by sitting. Even fidgeting the legs for one minute out of every five can prevent the endothelial dysfunction caused by sitting.  Finally, Dr. Padilla has also demonstrated that the endothelial dysfunction of leg arteries resulting from six hours of continuous sitting could be reversed by a 10-minute walk.

Exercise Against Aging

Brian Irving, Ph.D. (assistant professor, Louisiana State University) has an interest in the benefits of different types of exercise for the elderly. For example, resistance training, but not endurance training, has been shown to increase muscle size and mitochondrial density in the elderly. Endurance training does, however, prevent mitochondria from becoming dysfunctional.  Dr. Irving’s team has shown that a combination of endurance and resistance exercise is the best way to improve

cardiorespiratory fitness, muscle strength, and mitochondrial capacity.  The team also demonstrated that the increase in insulin resistance that happens with aging is due to increasing fat rather than simply being an inevitable consequence of aging. Endurance exercise has been shown to increase insulin sensitivity.

Exercise Capacity and Heart Health

Jonathan Myers, Ph.D. (health research scientist, Veteran Affairs Health Care System, Palo Alto, California) has established that exercise capacity is a better predictor of the risk of death than smoking, diabetes, high blood pressure, or other exercise test results.  Exercise capacity is the maximum metabolic equivalent (MET) measured on exercise equipment. MET is the ratio of energy expended during an activity compared to the energy expended when a person is passive (such as watching television). Leisurely walking uses just over 2 METs of energy, whereas jogging uses about 7 METsDr. Myers has also established that cardiorespiratory fitness (peak oxygen uptake during maximum exercise) is the best way to determine the exercise intolerance seen in heart failure patients.  Exercise testing requires equipment and trained staff that are often not available in medical facilities. So Dr. Myers has been evaluating questionnaires that estimate exercise capacity in order to attempt to predict mortality.  The single question, “How do you rate your cardiorespiratory fitness compared to your peers?” has proven to be very effective.  Those who rated themselves lower than their peers have a 91% greater chance of dying of cardiovascular disease compared to those who rate themselves higher than their peers.

High Intensity Interval Training

Martin Gibala, Ph.D. (professor, McMaster University, Ontario, Canada) studies the effects of high-intensity interval training (HIIT). HIIT exercise involves alternating between a brief period of “all-out” effort for several seconds, and a period of resting recovery time.  Dr. Gibala conducted a study in which he compared 45 minutes of moderate intensity cycling with a HIIT protocol consisting of three 20-second “all-out” cycling efforts interspersed with 2 minutes of low-effort cycling. The two groups of previously inactive men exercised three times per week for 12 weeks.  The study showed that improvement in insulin sensitivity, cardiorespiratory fitness, and muscle mitochondrial content was the same for both groups, despite the fact that the moderate intensity cycling group spent five times more total time exercising than

the HIIT group.  A review of the literature showed that when overweight/obese people practiced HIIT for more than 12 weeks, they experienced a reduction in body fat, waist circumference, and blood pressure, and an increase in cardiorespiratory fitness.  Dr. Gibala has established that HIIT can be achieved by stair-climbing as effectively as on an exercise bike.

Benefits and Risks of Exercise

Barry Franklin, Ph.D. (professor, Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan) is concerned with whether excessive exercise can be harmful.  Exercise reduces cardiovascular disease by improving the function of the heart and blood vessels. But excessive and vigorous exertion in those who have a poor cardiorespiratory condition and who are at increased risk of heart disease due to coronary artery disease or structural defects of the heart, has been shown to markedly increase the risk of sudden cardiac death and heart attack. Snow-shoveling is one confirmed cause of this, but any bout of excessive exercise in unfit, at-risk individuals can have this result.  Even in individuals without known heart disease, vigorous physical activity can increase the risk of acute heart attack and sudden cardiac death (SCD). This is because of the temporary stress placed on the heart by excessive exercise, making silent cardiac disease suddenly deadly when sedentary individuals overexert themselves. This underlines the importance of beginning any program of physical activity gradually, with expert guidance, and only after a thorough evaluation of cardiovascular health and risk.

Exercise for Diabetes

Steven Malin, Ph.D. (assistant professor, University of Virginia) studies differences in insulin sensitivity, fat disposal, and the effects of exercise between individuals. He has been particularly interested in the ability of the pancreas to compensate for insulin resistance. In the early stages of insulin resistance, blood glucose levels do not change because the pancreas can increase insulin production to compensate for the fact that insulin resistance increases the difficulty of getting glucose into cells. But eventually the

pancreas becomes unable to compensate, which results in higher blood glucose and lower levels of insulin. Dr. Malin highlights the importance of cardiorespiratory fitness for glycemic control and its importance in the production of insulinby the pancreas.

Exercise for Cognitive Function and Depression

Ryan Olson, Ph.D. (assistant professor, University of North Texas) is concerned with exercise, depression, and cognitive function. More than 15% of the U.S. population will experience major depressive disorder at some point in their lifetime. Dr. Olson’s research suggests that depressed people ruminate about negative past experiences, and that the rumination contributes to cognitive impairment. In an eight-week experiment in which depressed individuals did either stretching or endurance exercise, Dr. Olson found that endurance exercise reduced depressive symptoms by 58%, whereas stretching only reduced the symptoms by 22%. Endurance exercise also resulted in greater improvement in cognitive function. A 12-week study of depressed individuals compared the exercise equivalent of walking three miles per hour for 75 minutes per

week with walking four miles per hour for 210 minutes per week. The greater amount of exercise resulted in greater improvement of cognitive function. Christiane Wrann, Ph.D. (assistant professor of Medicine, Harvard Medical School) is interested in how exercise improves cognitive function. Exercise results in the creation of new brain cells in the area of the brain concerned with the formation of new memories. A study of healthy elderly people showed that those who did endurance exercise for six months experienced increased brain volume in the prefrontal and temporal cortex, the brain areas that normally show the greatest age-related deterioration. Dr. Wrann has been most interested in a protein called irisin that is secreted from muscle during exercise. She has found that irisin release is caused by another exercise-induced protein, PGC-1 alpha, which is a primary stimulator of mitochondrial biogenesis. Irisin reduces insulin resistance and obesity, and PGC-1 alpha has been shown to prolong lifespan in mice.

Exercise in Pregnancy

Michelle Motolla, Ph.D. (professor, Western University, Ontario, Canada) studies the effects of exercise on pregnant women. Dr. Mottola has shown that pregnant women who do not exercise are 2.5 times more likely to give birth to an overweight infant, and three times more likely to develop high blood pressure. Every 2.2 pounds above average birthweight is associated with a 12% higher risk of dying from cardiovascular disease when the child becomes an adult. Women who exercise while pregnant reduce the risk of having an overweight newborn. Nearly half of the women who develop diabetes during pregnancy (called gestational diabetes) will have an overweight infant. These infants are likely to become an obese, diabetic adult. Dr. Mottola has conducted a clinical trial showing that exercise during pregnancy reduced the incidence of gestational diabetes and prevented excessive weight retention in the mothers after they gave birth.

Concluding Remarks

Exercise can do much to reduce the disabilities of aging, prevent diabetes, and reduce the risk of dying from cardiovascular disease. Physicians often find it easier to  rescribe a pill rather than to prescribe exercise, despite the fact that exercise may be more effective. Patients also often find that it is more convenient to take a pill than to exercise. Exercise is a medicine without the side effects of a drug. Too many people avoid experiencing the benefits of exercise at too great a cost.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis

Examples[edit]

Physical exercise[edit]

Individuals with low levels of physical activity are at risk for high levels of oxidative stress, as are individuals engaged in highly intensive exercise programs; however individuals engaged in moderately intensive, regular exercise experience lower levels of oxidative stress. High levels of oxidative stress have been linked by some with the increased incidence of a variety of diseases.[12]

It has been claimed that this relationship, characterized by positive effects at an intermediate dose of the stressor (exercise), is characteristic of hormesis.[12] However, it is important to point out that there is evidence that the oxidative stress associated with intensive exercise may have long-term health benefits. This would imply that oxidative stress, itself, provides an example of hormesis (see section on Mitochondrial hormesis), but physical exercise does not.[13]

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I do generally agree that (and this is a big caveat) among very healthy eaters, I think excessive exercise is counterproductive.  The thing that makes this difficult to prove, is that among the "normal" population, exercise will have strong benefits (because it burns off some of the excessive calories those normal people eat, and reduces blood sugar).  Exercise is kind of a band aid for poor eating habits.  It's also difficult to nail down exactly what is "excessive".  I agree with the comments on HIIT above.  I think its a good idea to get your heart rate up to near maximum for a few minutes a day, and I think it's a good idea to maintain muscle mass, but all of this can be done in as little as 5-10 minutes of exercise per day.  Running long distances seems completely stupid to me, and sure to result in knee damage and potentially other problems, and it doesn't even get your heart rate up to maximum.  Also it seems that cold exposure confers many of the benefits of exercise, without the exercise, and I think that is a much better option if choosing between the two.  Some use exercise as a means of clearing blood sugar, but just flexing your muscles and cold exposure is probably far more effective for this.  Final thoughts - when super centenarians are interviewed, almost none of them credit their extensive workouts to their longevity - although it is common for them to be active people, typically with walking or gardening type activities being mentioned.

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Final thoughts - when super centenarians are interviewed, almost none of them credit their extensive workouts to their longevity - although it is common for them to be active people, typically with walking or gardening type activities being mentioned.

Totally anecdotally, fitness gurus (modern type exercise freaks have existed for at least the past 150 years or so) don't seem to beat any longevity records - a famous example is Jack LaLanne, who exercised, watched what he ate and had a "positive mental attitude" lived to an OK age of 96, so not quite centenarian... meanwhile, his brother, who was not a health nut, lived to the same age (even a few months longer). Seems like genes did most of the work. To be fair, Jack was apparently healthy until the very end (died of pneumonia, that killer of the old), while I don't know what his brother's health was like. Then again, Eddie "Bozo" Miller, was a competitive world champion eater for half a century, routinely consuming 25,000 calories a day most of his life, and never exercised, and lived to 90 - mere 6 years less than Jack LaLanne. Genes - hard to beat that... it's better to be lucky than good.

Eddie "Bozo" Miller

These are of course all anecdotes, but amusing nonetheless.

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Interesting story about Eddie "Bozo" Miller ... I'd have expected the 25000 calories per day to dramatically accelerate damage/aging and result in quite a short lifespan, and also of Jack Lalanne's brother matching Jack's age.

Makes me wonder if I should just go ahead and get the 2nd hashbrown with a McD's breakfast meal ;-)

Edited by Clinton

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6 hours ago, TomBAvoider said:

Eddie "Bozo" Miller, was a competitive world champion eater for half a century, routinely consuming 25,000 calories a day most of his life, and never exercised, and lived to 90 - mere 6 years less than Jack LaLanne. Genes - hard to beat that... it's better to be lucky than good.

Eddie "Bozo" Miller.

According to your link he lost the weight, but had diabetes and heart disease, and died at 89. Probably not the way to go ? 

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With most of those health articles that say people who exercise are healthier. What they may be missing is causation. Simply, people with better health are more likely to exercise and continue to exercise into old age. 

I know with myself that while I don't do any exercise, I easily have the stamina and strength to do it and do it quite well. Usually people like me who can so easily go out and run for instance, are the ones who are exercising. The people who are unfit, overweight, and have health issues are the people who are not exercising.

These studies then look at the people like myself who are the ones who will exercise and compare them to the people who are unfit and not exercising. The reason for example someone is running in 60's, is not because of the running its because he has naturally good health which allows him to run.

The main reason why I'm fit is because I have very low body fat, even though I don't exercise. I grew up with my father who was always against junk food and to this day I limit all of the garbage and stayed skinny, of course genetics probably played a role, my father is 76 and still works full time and we are laying tiles in his kitchen, it amazes me how he can do all this physical labor at his age, he also lifts weights as he has done weight lifting since his early 20's. 

What I notice is when ever I'm out with anyone or watch what other people eat I can't believe how much food  other people consume. This isn't even because of the amount of crap they are eating, it is that I can't believe how much food most other people can consume and not get full. 

 I believe If the unfit and overweight people just cut back on their calories, they would probably get most the same health benefits without having to exercise. I really believe it mostly comes down to weight.

It is really hard to prove any of these things with humans. There are also so many difference scenarios like does the person have low body fat because they are sick or on drugs. 

One thing to point out is that because I have a very low body weight it is very easy for me to be mobile and possibly I get more exercise than I think. I noticed that I'll do things and not even think about them in terms of physical exertion, like parking really far away and walking rather than parking close and getting my car damaged. I'll take a different bus to get someplace quicker even though I will have to walk further with the different bus. I notice most other overweight people are extremely lazy and will not do things like that, they will park at the closest spot.

I also walk and move extremely fast, which I then later discovered that some people say walking speed is a good sign of health.  Moving and walking fast is much more difficult and taxing on your body then slowly moving about. 

I don't agree that you need all this muscle mass and need to exercise to get more muscle mass. Our bodies were designed to be skinny. We evolved to be skinny and not to carry extra weight around. When we have low body fat our muscles are more than strong enough to deal with our weight. There is no reason to exercise if you have low body fat, unless you are planning to run a marathon or doing something very physically taxing.  

What happens is that people who should only weigh say 130lbs are now 180lbs+. Think about carrying around 50 lbs. Your body was not designed to take on that kind of an extra load, it will not fully adapt to the extra weight either. Your arm muscles will surely not adapt, and your back and legs only a little. Your joints will also not adapt.  This is why all these obese people need joint replacements. If exercise was good they would be the healthiest people around by having to carry all that extra weight around, but they are the unhealthiest. 

I'm not sure what my point here is but I don't exercise and seem to remain extra fit for my age. This could be partly because my low body weight my whole life has allowed me to still have easy mobility (good joints and good health) and I am much more active than I even think I am.  I do know that I spent a lot of time playing video games on the computer and now I notice that my finger joints start hurting quickly. It has seemed I wore out my fingers by all the extra exertion from using the mouse and keyboard, so now I have to limit myself with that and I don't have any pain. This is why your body is like a machine, you run it too hard it will wear out.

The only other joint that I may have done a little damage was my left elbow. It was perfect up until a year ago when I had a job that required me to be moving my arms so much that I started to develop tennis elbow. I quit the job after a few months but it never went back to normal, but close to it. You see, if you overuse your body or any body part it will wear out and if you overdo it the cells will be so damaged that they may never go back to normal. This is why I'm against any kind of exercise where it is possible to cause injury. The older you get the more likely this will happen as you have less good cells.  

 

Its probably like this:

Genetics play the biggest part in mostly everything.

Luck plays the 2nd biggest part.

Being skinny plays the next biggest part. Exercising while being skinny just wears out your body quicker. 

Being overweight and exercising limits extreme obesity but is not better than just being skinny. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edward

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Edward, some good points but also some disputable ones.

There is a lot of literature showing the benefits of exercise, above all moderate exercise both cardio and resistance. The evidence is overwhelmingly in favour and the reasons are many, from the hormetic stress to the growth signal for bones and connective tissues to the stymulation of BDNF, which is supposed to keep the brain young. As you say though, injury remains the #1 enemy so a priority should be to minimize the risk of it. As everything else, it's a razor's edge. You say luck has a part in it and probably that's true, you are lucky, you walk esily on the edge, you're unlucky, you fall down. But a reasoned exercise strategy often turns out to be successful.

 

Edited by mccoy

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I agree that the human body was designed to move around, for example the veins in the legs use movement to help move the flow of blood back up to the heart. I disagree that anything extra (exercise) other than simple moving around is helpful. That is why in that post above just fidgeting the legs  "Even fidgeting the legs for one minute out of every five can prevent the endothelial dysfunction caused by sitting". 

In my opinion rigorous exercise and building extra muscle is not helpful for longevity. Our bodies evolved to be skinny and to rarely hold on to any extra fat. Holding extra fat or muscle is a strain on our whole body. It also causes excess consumption of calories which takes a toll on the digestive system. You have to think of almost all food unhealthy in one way or another, either due to chemicals or over dosing on too many nutrients. The less food you consume the better because your body doesn't get overloaded with all the bad effects and chemicals from the food. Think of it like having to constantly fill your car with gas, the more gas you put through it the more it will clog things up. Sounds crazy but you really have to think of food as a necessary poison, so you want to eat as little as possible. 

Optimally for longevity (not optimal for attracting the opposite sex), you want to have as little body fat as possible and also as little muscle mass as possible, yet still be active enough to move around to keep your cells functioning and fluids moving in your body. This will lead to minimal calorie consumption and less load on all your joints and bones. Being extremely light weight will make mobility very easy and you will naturally get enough physical activity to keep your cells functioning smoothly. 

The reason people think they need exercise to be fit is most likely because they are overweight and carrying excess weight around which also leads to carrying extra muscles around to deal with the extra fat. This drains them of energy to be active and makes it difficult to move around, they won't take the stairs but will take the escalator for example. The extra muscle and fat also takes lots of extra digesting and processing of calories which also robs the body of energy. 

If you research why exercise doesn't help people lose weight it is because people who exercise will make up for it by basically being lazy the rest of the day. They will take the elevator instead of the stairs, they will move slower, etc. Exercise won't help you anyway, and it will only stress your body out by overloading your body for short periods of exercise rather than just doing normal activities the whole day. 

My point is that if you want to have optimal longevity then you want the least stress on your body. This includes, minimal body fat, minimal muscle mass, do calorie restriction, and no rigorous exercise. This will put the least stress on your body and especially your digestive system having to not deal with processing all that food.

This is kind of what I do, except that i'm probably not even optimal and carry a bit extra body fat and eat a little too much. That being said I'm 120 lbs and 5'9.5" in height. I don't exercise, yet I'm very active in that I walk a lot and find myself much more mobile and active then mostly anyone I know. This is because it is very easy for me to move around being so light weight.

Strength wise for being 120lbs and 5'9". I can bench press over my body weight for reps. I can also attach over 40lbs on myself and do pull ups for reps. I am extremely strong for being so skinny in that my strength to body ratio is very high. My strength is more than enough to deal with my body weight and I do not lift weights.  This is why I keep saying your muscles are maintained for you to be skinny and are more than adequate enough to deal with what they were designed for, a skinny body. 

To build muscle to deal with holding 30-50lbs of extra fat is not smart or healthy. My Brother who has a similar frame as me weighs 170 lbs. He weighs 50 lbs more than me but he thinks that is normal weight. He doesn't look that fat, but he is still having to move 40-50lbs of extra body weight on his frame, where my frame only has to deal with 120lbs. That whopping 50lbs will most likely kill his longevity. 

Just imagine my brother decided to exercise and lift weights, he may increase his body weight from 170 to 185lbs. Now his body which is designed to be 120lbs, is now having to deal with an extra 65lbs. Not only the 65lbs he has to devote resources to like blood and energy, but he has to process all those additional calories each day to maintain that extra body weight and muscle and move it around.  All this is going to kill his longevity.

This is the issue with most people in that they are usually 50lbs+ heavier than they really should be or what their body was designed for. Most people are far heavier than they think they should be as my brother thinks he should weigh at the least 150lbs. Most people are so fat and overweight they can not even comprehend what a normal body should look like.

Please understand and I repeat again, we are not talking about looking attractive with lots of muscle. We are talking about longevity here. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Its likely that exercise will always provide some benefit (to anyone) but that there is diminishing value to exercise the slimmer and healthier  that a person is to begin with.

 

 

Edited by Clinton

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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/well/move/regular-exercise-may-keep-your-body-30-years-younger.html?action=click&module=Discovery&pgtype=Homepage

 

this study refutes makes some bold claims wrt exercise and function in older ages. IMO there is absolutely no question that function is markedly improved, lifespan may be a more modest benefit of regular exercise,

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On 9/17/2018 at 7:23 PM, Edward said:

Strength wise for being 120lbs and 5'9". I can bench press over my body weight for reps. I can also attach over 40lbs on myself and do pull ups for reps. I am extremely strong for being so skinny in that my strength to body ratio is very high. My strength is more than enough to deal with my body weight and I do not lift weights.  This is why I keep saying your muscles are maintained for you to be skinny and are more than adequate enough to deal with what they were designed for, a skinny body. 

Edward, the above descritpion suggests that you are a statistical outlier in strength versus bodyweight ratio. That means that your subjective fitness status and subsequent considerations cannot be applied to the average population.

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1)  Exercise itself shifts body fat patterns away from abdominal fat and toward healthier patterns of fat.

2) Exercise maintains muscle mass and quality and bone density and quality.

3)  Exercise stimulates autophagy and apoptosis and is, independent of weight, associated with lower rates of a number of cancers and a lower rate of dementia.

4)  Exercise is anti-inflammatory and is independently linked to any number of better outcomes with immune-mediated conditions.

It's called hormesis. 

I also don't believe that you're in the shape you claim you're in unless you are quite young and still have the work-free muscle that young males get as a result of the surge in testosterone in adolescence.  Call me again in 20 years, and we'll both go for a brisk walk in the mountains.  Should be fun.  Bodies are not magic.  They don't keep around muscle that they have no need for.

Doctors thought like you in the 1920s through the 1950s and were roundly proven profoundly wrong. 

Jack LaLanne was not freakishly lucky.  His lifespan--and quite frankly death: infectious illness is really quite dangerous in all the very elderly, even lean and healthy people--could be quite normal even at less than half his daily exercise regimen.

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On 11/23/2018 at 2:12 PM, mikeccolella said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/well/move/regular-exercise-may-keep-your-body-30-years-younger.html?action=click&module=Discovery&pgtype=Homepage

 

this study refutes makes some bold claims wrt exercise and function in older ages. IMO there is absolutely no question that function is markedly improved, lifespan may be a more modest benefit of regular exercise,

Part of the problem is that people are a whole lot better at lying about exercise than they are about exercising.  The NHANES survey data shows that 56% of Americans claim to get the minimum cardiovascular exercise.  Objective accelerometer NHANES data puts that at 5%.  Asking people about their exercise is about as useful as asking the obese for a 24-hour dietary recall data.  There will be a trend, but the numbers will be skewed.

Exercise does show less benefit, especially at higher level, than one would expect, and there are two BIG reasons why.  For one, there are exercise goofballs who think it doesn't matter what they eat as long as they stay skinny and exercise--just like there are CRONies who think it doesn't matter if they exercise as long as they follow whatever diet they're fixated on and stay skinny.  And secondly, the incredibly great biomarkers that leanness + exercise gives allows health problems that develop outside of those screening parameters to grow unchecked and untreated.  (That sounds....familiar....doesn't it?)

I also think that exercise studies show an exaggerated benefit at the lower levels and likely a too-low benefit at the moderately high levels.  Because so many people say they exercise and don't, those who will actually confess to this are those who really, really, really don't do much--many of whom aren't even capable of it.  Yeah, if you can't even claim to be able to jog for 10 minutes straight, your health sucks.  That's not really news.

Edited by Genny

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https://docsbay.net/exercise-and-longevity

Aging is a natural and complex physiological process influenced by many factors, some of which are modifiable. As the number of older individuals continues to increase, it is important to develop interventions that can be easily implemented and contribute to “successful aging”. In addition to a healthy diet and psychosocial well-being, the benefits of regular exercise on mortality, and the prevention and control of chronic disease affecting both life expectancy and quality of life are well established. We summarize the benefits of regular exercise on longevity, presentthe current knowledge regarding potential mechanisms, and outline the main recommendations. Exercise can partially reverse the effects of the aging process on physiological functions and preserve functional reserve in the elderly. Numerous studies have shown that maintaining a minimum quantity and quality of exercise decreases the risk of death, prevents the
development of certain cancers, lowers the risk of osteoporosis and increases longevity. Training programs should include exercises aimed at improving cardiorespiratory fitness and muscle function, as well as flexibility and balance. Though the benefits of physical activity appear to be directly linked to the notion of training volume and intensity, further research is required in the elderly, in order to develop more precise recommendations, bearing in mind that the main aim is to foster long-term adherence to physical activity in this growing population.

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Exercise appears to be beneficial by itself, and to enhance the beneficial effects of CR.

I posted this earlier on another thread, but it is pertinent here as well:

"In this study, we observed a metabolic adaptation over 24-hour in sedentary conditions and during sleep following 6-months of CR. The metabolic adaptation in the CREX group was similar to that observed in CR group, suggesting that energy deficit rather than CR itself is driving the decrease in energy expenditure. Importantly, the metabolic adaptations were closely paralleled by a drop in thyroid hormone plasma concentrations confirming the importance of the thyroid pathway as a determinant of energy metabolism43. Of significance, the metabolic adaptation occurred in the first 3-months after intervention with no further adaptation at 6 months, even though weight loss continued in CR and CREX groups." 

(
CR=25% diet restriction; CREX=12.5%CR+12.5% increase in energy expenditure)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2692623/

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