Are we exercising too much!

[Mike41]

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(21)00475-4/fulltext
 

Based on this study too much exercise can increase mortality.  I find the relatively low level of 10 hours a week increasing mortality surprising. The one factor here is intensity because these are sports activities which can be very demanding.

Or perhaps it’s just one more flawed study.
 

Compared with the reference group of 2.6 to 4.5 hours of weekly leisure-time sports activities, we found an increased risk for all-cause mortality for those with 0 hours (hazard ratio , 1.51; 95% CI, 1.29 to 1.76), for those with 0.1 to 2.5 hours (HR, 1.24; 95% CI, 1.05 to 1.46), and for those with more than 10 hours (HR, 1.18; 95% CI, 1.00 to 1.39) of weekly leisure-time sports activities. These relationships were generally consistent with additional adjustments for potential confounders among subgroups of age, sex, education, smoking, alcohol intake, and body mass index, when the first 5 years of follow-up were excluded, and for cardiovascular disease mortality

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Mike41
N

[Ron Put]

I wonder what "all-cause mortality" means here. I'd imagine that at least some of those in the 10+ hours engage in riskier activities, such as mountain climbing, diving, paragliding, etc., by virtue of being fitter and capable of doing so. Accidents and injuries might account for it.

[Dean Pomerleau]

Mike Lustgarten created a very nice video (thanks Mike!) about this study, showing that the relationship of significantly increased mortality in those exercising more than 10 hours per week did not hold in never smokers, nor in people who had a normal BMI (i.e. less than 25.6), nor in women.

See this post:

--Dean

[Saul]

Hi Dean!

I remember -- from the lasr CR Conference -- you were exercising vigorously, almost every spare moment when no talks were being given.

You probably exercised more than what Mike's curve shows -- and seemed to be doing very well.

🙂

  --  Saul

[corybroo]

Late-life exercise shows rejuvenating effects on cellular level

For people who hate exercising, here comes some more bad news: it may also keep you younger. Not just looking younger, but actually younger, on an epigenetic level.

Lab mice nearing the end of their natural lifespan, at 22 months, were allowed access to a weighted exercise wheel. 

When the mice were studied after two months of progressive weighted wheel running, it was determined that they were the epigenetic age of mice eight weeks younger than sedentary mice of the same age—24 months.

[the mice] start dropping off after 24 months at a significant rate. Needless to say, when your lifespan is measured in months, an extra eight weeks—roughly 10 percent of that lifespan—is a noteworthy gain.

[Mike41]

3 hours ago, corybroo said:

Late-life exercise shows rejuvenating effects on cellular level

For people who hate exercising, here comes some more bad news: it may also keep you younger. Not just looking younger, but actually younger, on an epigenetic level.

Lab mice nearing the end of their natural lifespan, at 22 months, were allowed access to a weighted exercise wheel. 

When the mice were studied after two months of progressive weighted wheel running, it was determined that they were the epigenetic age of mice eight weeks younger than sedentary mice of the same age—24 months.

[the mice] start dropping off after 24 months at a significant rate. Needless to say, when your lifespan is measured in months, an extra eight weeks—roughly 10 percent of that lifespan—is a noteworthy gain.

It’s mice, but still I think it’s true in humans. My brother is 72 years old and he still does marathons. He is remarkably youngish for his age. He also has a bmi of 20. He smoked and drank most of his life. Heavily when young. He still drinks wine and one cigarette with his wine each day. He jogs and has jogged all his life. He is probably more energetic than most young people. He still runs his business and travels a lot. At the very least he is aging remarkably well.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Mike41

[Clinton]

Lol - thanks Mike!
 

[Sibiriak]

11 hours ago, Mike41 said:

My brother is 72 years old [...] He still runs his business and travels a lot. 

Wow!   Amazing for someone THAT friggin' old!!   Lol!

Edited January 22, 2022 by Sibiriak

[Mike41]

Hey Sibiriak, . At 72 in the area I live people like him are a very tiny minority.. most are overweight and tired at that age unfortunately! Not many youthful ones that’s for sure!

Edited January 22, 2022 by Mike41

[Ron Put]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:23 AM, corybroo said:

[the mice] start dropping off after 24 months at a significant rate. Needless to say, when your lifespan is measured in months, an extra eight weeks—roughly 10 percent of that lifespan—is a noteworthy gain.

Even if it was only a gain in healthspan, it would still be worth it. But it stands to reason that healthspan contributes to a longer lifespan, too, by making one less likely to succumb to pathogens, inflammation, or ailments that come with unhealthy lifestyles.

[Sibiriak]

 

11 hours ago, Mike41 said:

At 72 in the area I live people like him are a very tiny minority...

Speaking of energetic septuagenarians:

French adventurer, 75, dies in attempt to row across the Atlantic

Jean-Jacques Savin, a former paratrooper, wanted ‘to laugh at old age’...

 

 

[alexthegra8]

6 hours ago, Sibiriak said:

 

Speaking of energetic septuagenarians:

French adventurer, 75, dies in attempt to row across the Atlantic

Jean-Jacques Savin, a former paratrooper, wanted ‘to laugh at old age’...

 

 

that is basically a call for natural inflicted suicide -- to try that crossing in the winter is bizarre. 

[Todd Allen]

14 hours ago, alexthegra8 said:

that is basically a call for natural inflicted suicide -- to try that crossing in the winter is bizarre.

He started from Portugal and was headed for the Caribbean.  Not sure about everything in between but neither is particularly brutal this time of year.  My guess is this might be the time of year when storms are mildest as warmer waters are associated with tropical storms and hurricanes.

[Mike41]

On 1/23/2022 at 2:39 AM, Sibiriak said:

 

Speaking of energetic septuagenarians:

French adventurer, 75, dies in attempt to row across the Atlantic

Jean-Jacques Savin, a former paratrooper, wanted ‘to laugh at old age’...

 

 

Ron PUTT nails it! It’s mostly about QOL! 

[alexthegra8]

Would anyone here dispute the claim that a high quality elliptical machine is the most superior, accessible form of cardiovascular exercise because of its low impact on joints? Swimming is apparently "the best" but it takes more resources (either travel or good weather) to do regularly. 

[Saul]

I won't dispute that.  That's exactly how I exercise.  I also set the resistance level to be near the maximum -- to accomplish some skeletal muscle strengthening as well.

  --  Saul

[Mike41]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2788473
 

here we see a new published study showing lowered mortality and improved quality of life using accelerometer data over a long period of time. This study indicates a plateauing around 60 minutes a day, but the QOL and mortality figures continue to improve. Indication: The more exercise the better! 

[Saintor]

Well exercising increases metabolism .... I would venture to say that after a certain level, it is most detrimental to longevity (according to Dr Valter Longo)...   rarely athletes with a lot of muscles achieve very old age,

[AlanPater]

5 hours ago, Saintor said:

Well exercising increases metabolism .... I would venture to say that after a certain level, it is most detrimental to longevity (according to Dr Valter Longo)...   rarely athletes with a lot of muscles achieve very old age,

J Natl Med Assoc. 2002 Feb;94(2):88-99.
Less is better
Thomas T Samaras, Harold Elrick
PMID: 11853051 PMCID: PMC2594131
Free PMC article
Abstract
The "more is better" credo is evaluated in terms of its harmful ramifications on human health, the environment, and the survival of the human race. The trend towards greater height and body weight in developed countries is evaluated in terms of its negative aspects on health and longevity. The benefits of reduced caloric intake are discussed. Countries that survive on lower food intakes are shown to have much less heart disease, such as South Africa, where rural blacks outlive whites and also have a higher percentage of centenarians. The risks of increasing birth weight are discussed in terms of promoting cancer and overweight in adulthood. Rapid childhood growth also is shown to have risks because rapid maturity is in conflict with the need to have more time to learn about our complex world before reaching reproductive capability. The increase in the average size of humans aggravates our burgeoning population numbers, placing even greater demands on our need for fresh water, energy, resources, and a clean invironment. Many good things come in large packages, such as elephants, whales, and trees. While Sumo wrestlers, football players, and basketball players play an important role in our world, their small numbers do not pose a threat to our survival. However, their body habitus should not be the goal for the average male of the future.

[mccoy]

Are we exercising too much? It depends. Often optimum exercise intensity and length are individual parameters, varying with age and other conditions.

At 60+ I'm noticing that when I increase the length of aerobics some tendons or joints start aching and if I insist they develop inflammation and goodbye to running for weeks or months.

So the optimum in my case is governed by joint or tendons health.

The same goes for resistance exercise. 

Another aspect: when exercising I become pretty hungry, and this made me reach a BMI of about 25.5 last summer, some of which was abdominal adiposity.

It's funny what I get from the NIH BMI calculator entering the relevant parameters:

 

 

[Sibiriak]

Being overweight can increase stress on tendons and joints, as well as the tendency for inflammation.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Sibiriak

[mccoy]

14 hours ago, Sibiriak said:

Being overweight can increase stress on tendons and joints, as well as the tendency for inflammation.

Being overweight from adiposity or from muscularity?

[Sibiriak]

It can from both,  in my view.   And quite often an increase in  muscularity is accompanied by some increase in adiposity.    Of course,  individuals vary, and there are many interacting factors that can yield differing results.

[alexthegra8]

4 hours ago, mccoy said:

Being overweight from adiposity or from muscularity?

If your joints hurt, do low impact aerobic exercise like cycling and best of all, swimming.

[mccoy]

Guys, my point was that I regarded it as funny that the NIH online calculator indicated me as 'overweight'. Maybe if the BMI is a proxy for adiposity, disregarding muscle size.

Anyhow, in the meanwhile my BMI dropped to 24.5, which puts me in the green range of normoweight, LOL, I'm going to survive for the next 1 and a half years!

Of course, I'm not very thin like 7% adipose, more probably 12%, it would be interesting if the mortality Hazard rates in studies were calculated according to true adiposity as detected by a DEXA SCAN for example.

I don't remember if we already discussed that and posted mortality studies for 'real' adiposity (not its proxy, BMI, which can also be a proxy for muscle hypertrophy).

Back to the OP, if we exercise too much such that hunger is overly stimulated, then muscle AND adiposity might increase above a healthy threshold, so the truth has many facets.